Nintendo DS, NEW look/case

[Zentrandude]

my big complaint with GBA games are either they look great and are super short or they look blah and have longer game play and are so monotonous... like FF tactics.. great game but lack of variety really hurt it, IMO...

not to hijack the thread too much but looks like the japanese version of ff 1 and 2 is out for gba. looks like you might got your wish

[Granbeetle san]

wow....

I actually thought Sony's model opened up the gaming industry.. it allowed more companies to get involved, had a cheaper more accessible hardware (than the cartridge) platform...

...my big complaint with GBA games are either they look great and are super short or they look blah and have longer game play and are so monotonous... like FF tactics.. great game but lack of variety really hurt it, IMO...

and I'm sure sony will think of something cool to do with the memory stick...

as for the DS, I've yet to see a compelling reason for having that split screen... seeing a little map while playing mario kart racing is just not that interesting for me.

Sony has opened the gaming industry wide and the amount of non-quality games they have opened it up to is IMHO starting to negatively affect the industry.

While disc media has brought greater graphics, I think games in general are just as you described. However, I think you are more accuratley describing a current trend of Square-Enix's rather than Nintendo's (I have found most Square games, play-wise, to be boring for a long time now

As far as the memory stick goes, I'm sure Sony is thinking of how they can charge you and I for it and all the cool things it will do.

I have to agree with you about the dual screen thing though. Why? I'm sure developers will make use of it somehow but, I don't like how Nintendo is pushing half brain gimmicks lately **cough** GBA connectivity **cough**! I personally am more worried about this touch screen thing and how the screen will actually hold up.

Edited July 29, 2004 by Granbeetle san

[bandit29]

Looks kinda neat. I'm sure my nephew will whine to get this lol That's when I'll check it out. I'm more interested in the PSP. But I haven't been exactlty thrilled with Sony. For every good PS2 game there are at least 5 bad ones. The industry seems to be headed for another crash.

[mikeszekely]

To address a couple of points that have been brought up...

Sony doesn't license games that don't show off the graphical power of the system? Is this another Sony doesn't do 2D argument? Because last I checked, the PS2 is getting the Street Figther Anniversary Collection, SNK vs. Capcom Chaos, Metal Slug 4 & 5, Capcom All-Stars, KoF 2002/2003, Viewtiful Joe, and Viewtiful Joe 2, plus Megaman X8 is shaping up to be 2D again.

The fact is, Sony has helped to open up the market incredibly since the PSone came out. Now, if you're looking for the real culprit for the declining game industry and the reason for why four out of five games suck today, blame the developers. Fact is, in Japan, the industry is in a slump... that's why there are fewer of those great Japanese games coming out, and more American, Canadian, and European games on the market. The other thing is that, because Sony and some others have helped to open the market so much, everyone wants in. Everyone and their mother are making games for the PS2, because there's money there.

As for the PSP's UMD, they are in fact a great idea for portables. As previously mentioned, the disks are cheaper to produce and generally allow for more info, better sound, and better image quality that carts. The UMD is not as fragile as a CD or DVD, though, because they don't come out of those plastic cases. The fact that you might need a memory stick to save dampens it, sure, but I've heard rumors that UMDs might be re-writable.

Mind, you, I'm just trying to clear up the errors. The fact of the matter is, at this point in time, I have ZERO interest in the PSP. Fact of the matter is gamers want new toys to play games on. Adding a bunch of features no one really wants (I kinda wonder where they get their marketing research taht says we do) drives up the price and lowers demand. If the PSP was simply a $150 game deck, I might consider it. But they had to throw in a movie feature I'm never gonna use, since I'm not buying my favorite movies on DVD AND UMD, mp3 playback I'm never gonna use, etc, until the price is now to be between $250 and $300... far too much for a portable system... especially since I think it was Kutaragi himself that said that the PSP isn't really intended to be a portable system. Yeah, we could tell with that battery life (it is supposed to be better for games, since the disc motor doesn't have to work constantly, but still). So, gee, I can buy a $300 handheld, buy the PSP version of Gran Turismo 4, and it won't really be portable because the of the shoddy battery life, but it's okay because I was meant to play the PSP at home with it plugged in? Yeah, right... I think I'll just buy the PSP version of Gran Turismo 4 and be done with it.

As for the DS... the price is right. I like that it plays my old GBA games (I don't really play my old 8-bit Gameboy games anymore anyway), and the New Super Mario Bros (the 2D, cartoony yet classic looking game, not Super Mario 64x4), the fact that Konami announced a new Castlevania for it, and the fact that Capcom announced a new Megaman for it tell me that there will be good DS games. Wireless multi-player is certainly a plus. The dual screens and touch sensitivity might be gimmicky, but so what? It's still shaping up to be a decent handheld system.

[Agent ONE]

WOW! It is the most adult looking Nintendo product I've ever seen.

[bigkid24]

I agree with some the NDS doesn't do much for me. It looks sweet but I'm still unsure about the two screen gimmick. Plus, given that PDAs that use a stylus eventually have problems with the touch screen, what is Nintendo doing to insure that the touch screen isn't going to crap out? Especially, since the NDS touch screen with endure a lot more contact than your typicaly PDA if you have to use the stylus for firing.

The PSP is more interesting to me. It's the true the movie thing is a waste since I'll always have a laptop for work to watch movies on and I won't buy a movie twice. I do like the MP3 player aspect since I don't have one but I could do without it. I assume that Sony is going with the memory sticks due to the fact that they'll probably lose money on the system but try and make it up with accessory sales like the PS2.

Aside from the PS2, I've never bought a system at launch so I'll play the wait and see game with both the PSP and NDS. Unless of course, I get the job I want then I may be playing a certain system right as it comes out.

[Agent ONE]

Does anyone have the size dimentions of this thing?

[Max Jenius]

Sony PSP; If anyone can make this work... Sony can. I think it looks great, but its not really what I'm looking for in a portable. However, if it DOES prove to be a worthy contender I will consider it... I mean... we'll just see... I mean... if a portable Soul Calibur were to come out.....

As for the DS... you had me at hello. Nintendo usually comes through with fun games, and not only are they fun but there's also usually an interesting twist. Take Metroid Prime; Its a First Person Adventure game... they didn't make it super fast and intense like other FP games... they made something of a "Samus Suit simulation" the whole time I played MP it felt like I was tromping around an unknown planet in Samus' suit. I think a lot of people were put off by the first person aspect... I was too.. but I took a chance and they made it work for me. I would LOVE to see them make a Prime style rendition of Super Metroid. It wouldn't be the same as the original and perhaps not as revered... but imagine fighting Kraid on a multi-level 3d level... or better yet; Mother Brain!

Needless to say, the coming years are going to be exciting... will Nintendo be able to come back with their "Revolution" system?(gyroscope technology was recently purchased by Nintendo... revolution eh?) Picture it now... a tilt-sensitive, wireless controller.... just the kind of update the joypad needs to be a more viable and perhaps SUPERIOR controller for FPS games. That is what I forsee from Nintendo and I think it will perhaps one day become standard... just like the Analogue/Digital combo... and rumble features(I believe these possibly appeared earlier, but NCL was an early adopter at least).

[KingNor]

my question to people worried about the screen, honestly what HARM can it do?

if a game doesn't NEED both screens, they just won't use it.

i can see alot of possible uses, gimmiky yes, but hardly gameplay destroying.

everyone i talk to complains about how the two screens are going to ruin the system, WHAT exactly is it that the two screens are going to destroy, someone tell me!

[JB0]

To address a couple of points that have been brought up...

Sony doesn't license games that don't show off the graphical power of the system? Is this another Sony doesn't do 2D argument? Because last I checked, the PS2 is getting the Street Figther Anniversary Collection, SNK vs. Capcom Chaos, Metal Slug 4 & 5, Capcom All-Stars, KoF 2002/2003, Viewtiful Joe, and Viewtiful Joe 2, plus Megaman X8 is shaping up to be 2D again.

Last I'd heard Sony America wasn't letting Viewtiful Joe anything touch American soil on the PS2. Guess they changed their minds again.

And has it escaped your attention that, SNK bundles excepted, EVERY ONE OF THE TITLES YOU LISTED has been launched with a bargain bin pricetag, or is set for one when it does come out?

Remember, this is a complaint with SCEA, not Sony as a whole. The japanese and european game divisions are a lot better about letting good, but not so impressive graphically, games get released.

I'm not making arguments up out of nowhere. I've seen the interviews.

Top executives at SNK, producers at Capcom, and what originally drew my attention to the problem, a producer at Agetec.

All of them have ranted about SCEA's licensing system. None so vehemently as SNK, since their games invariably look a tad dated.

As a sidenote... SNK didn't WANT to do Metal Slug and KoF as bundles. It was just the only way they could get the license.

BTW, according to both EB and Gamestop, SVC Chaos is an XBox exclusive in the States. Not that I consider them great news outlets, but they ARE in the business of selling games. If they can list Duke Nukem Forever(with a release date), surely they can list SVC Chaos PS2. Right?

Some of the titles that come out in Japan, then get bounced for US releases just boggle the mind.

The fact is, Sony has helped to open up the market incredibly since the PSone came out.  Now, if you're looking for the real culprit for the declining game industry and the reason for why four out of five games suck today, blame the developers.  Fact is, in Japan, the industry is in a slump... that's why there are fewer of those great Japanese games coming out, and more American, Canadian, and European games on the market.  The other thing is that, because Sony and some others have helped to open the market so much, everyone wants in.  Everyone and their mother are making games for the PS2, because there's money there.

And it can't POSSIBLY have anything to do with Sony denying licenses to perfectly good games while giving them to crap titles.

The modern graphics whore didn't exist before the Playstation. Sure people LIKED nice looking games, but you would be hard-pressed to find someone that thought whether or not a game looked nice was MORE IMPORTANT than how well it played.

This is what Sony America has done for the industry.

BTW, you're ignoring something... 3rd party games are still licensed. They can deny licenses to games they don't like.

The console makers have the ulitmate authority over what graces and disgraces their systems.

If a lot of crap gets released, it's because the console manufacturers let it.

And in my opinion, the PlayStation series has a long-standing problem with very large quantities of crap in it's library.

As for the PSP's UMD, they are in fact a great idea for portables.  As previously mentioned, the disks are cheaper to produce and generally allow for more info, better sound, and better image quality that carts.  The UMD is not as fragile as a CD or DVD, though, because they don't come out of those plastic cases. 

Yes, I'm sure it has a tiny plastic shutter with all the structural integrity of a 3.5" floppy. Which isn't exactly impressive.

BTW, better sound and image quality isn't really relevant to the media, unless you're using redbook audio on a CD-based game.

If you don't believe me, compare a Super Nintendo or NeoGeo to a SegaCD.

The fact that you might need a memory stick to save dampens it, sure, but I've heard rumors that UMDs might be re-writable.

Rumors that I can almost guarantee are bullshit.

Allowing you to save to the same media that your game is on is an accident waiting to happen(ROM carts use a seperate battery-backed RAM or FlashRAM chip for saving).

And given the status with PS2 BIOS updates(or lack thereof), I'm betting Sony won't risk it on the games either.

It'd be NICE if they imbedded a FlashRAM chip in the casing, but we know it's not going to happen.

Mind, you, I'm just trying to clear up the errors.  The fact of the matter is, at this point in time, I have ZERO interest in the PSP. 

YAY!

Yeah, we could tell with that battery life (it is supposed to be better for games, since the disc motor doesn't have to work constantly, but still). 

I thought it was supposed to be better with movies and (especially) MP3 playback, since most of the hardware was disabled for those.

As for the DS... the price is right.  I like that it plays my old GBA games (I don't really play my old 8-bit Gameboy games anymore anyway),

That's actually one of the things that disappoints me. I'm as likely to pop out Qix or Tetris as I am Circle of the Moon or Konami Arcade(the current busiest carts in my GBO and GBA libraries).

[Max Jenius]

If you still want to play old GB games, just hang on to your SP...

I intend to do so... even though I'm most likely getting a DS.

Speaking of which; what is wrong with gimmicks? Rumble is a gimmick... a gimmick that is now standard.

2 screens and touch sensitivity will give gamers new ways of interacting with games! That's exactly why I'm hoping Nintendo goes in a similar direction to the one that I forecast earlier.... that would be soooo coool!

[JB0]

If you still want to play old GB games, just hang on to your SP...

I intend to do so... even though I'm most likely getting a DS.

I've still got an original gray brick and a yellow GBColor.

And screw the SP. I've never found it a comfortable device to use, and have stuck to the standard GBA.

[Max Jenius]

If you still want to play old GB games, just hang on to your SP...

I intend to do so... even though I'm most likely getting a DS.

I've still got an original gray brick and a yellow GBColor.

And screw the SP. I've never found it a comfortable device to use, and have stuck to the standard GBA.

It is a bit strange after the previous gameboys, but like a new controller you get used to it. Trust me, the benefits FAR outweigh the disadvantages.

Its smaller than any other GB

It has (gasp! finally!) a LIGHT...seriously.. the thing lights up my dark room. . . lol

It has a rechargeable battery that lasts like 10 hours with the light on

Well worth the purchase, I think you should investigate further. Everytime I play my SP I marvel at how awesome it would have been if that is what the gameboy had been all along... I mean really... they should have called it Gameboy Ultra or something along those lines...

[JB0]

If you still want to play old GB games, just hang on to your SP...

I intend to do so... even though I'm most likely getting a DS.

I've still got an original gray brick and a yellow GBColor.

And screw the SP. I've never found it a comfortable device to use, and have stuck to the standard GBA.

It is a bit strange after the previous gameboys, but like a new controller you get used to it. Trust me, the benefits FAR outweigh the disadvantages.

Well, the layout is back to the vertical orientation of everything else.

Which disappointed me as the GB series has always felt a tad crowded to me.

Its smaller than any other GB

The GBColor was too small to play comfortably. Why would I want something smaller yet?

It has (gasp! finally!) a LIGHT...seriously.. the thing lights up my dark room. . . lol

I've never had a problem with lighting.

Exception: Circle of the Moon. Dammit Konami, test your games on a real system before you release them!

It has a rechargeable battery that lasts like 10 hours with the light on

My GBA has a rechargable battery. 2 NiMH AA batteries.

And these can be replaced when they go bad. That LiIon will be deceased in a few years, and you won't be able to get replacements because LiIon degrades from manufacture, instead of just with use.

Well worth the purchase, I think you should investigate further.

I have. Uncomfortable to hold, no headphone jack, and the "big improvements" are non-issues for me.

I want a non-SP GBA with the SP's d-pad. Wait a second... that's the DS.

[Max Jenius]

Yeah, but then you can't play with your crusty old GB games.

Oh well, I suppose it just isn't for you. Personally I found the lighting on the original GBA to be crappy...same with the color... now the pocket... that was sweet.

Something you should consider though is that Gameboy IS supposed to be portable and the space that I save from the upgrade lets me fit more games into my carrying case! Plus, if its a short trip I can toss it and a couple games into my pocket easily and comfortably.

I dunno... I like it because I can put it in my pocket. As for the headphone jack, I don't really mind because its not like Gameboy Advanced games have stellar sound or anything... some games do, but its basically still SNES style. You can get an adapter and NEW batteries from Nintendo for cheap. I don't know how long they're gonna offer them, but you can still get a lot of old stuff from their store.

But it looks like you've done your own research and it doesn't float your boat. I didn't think lighting was an issue until I went back... lol .. never again.

Also Nintendo stated that the DS isn't supposed to be a GB replacement... so I think we'll be able to get our batteries rather easily for at least a while longer. The way I see it, I won't have time for portables much longer... and besides... new stuff is always coming. Few portable games have made me want to play through more than once or twice.

[JB0]

Yeah, but then you can't play with your crusty old GB games.

Damn...

A flash cart and a GBO emulator!

Well, it beats a giant kludged-together adapter/system...

Oh well, I suppose it just isn't for you. Personally I found the lighting on the original GBA to be crappy...same with the color... now the pocket... that was sweet.

I dunno. Maybe I got lucky.

Near as I can tell, either my eyes are more sensitive than most or my GBA is brighter than most(I DO know there's some variation in brightness from unit to unit).

Something you should consider though is that Gameboy IS supposed to be portable and the space that I save from the upgrade lets me fit more games into my carrying case! Plus, if its a short trip I can toss it and a couple games into my pocket easily and comfortably.

I actually stuff my GBA into my pocket too. Not that my keys ahve been kind to the screen, but...

And it was a tight fit, but I could fit my GBO into it in a pinch(no games, though...).

As for the headphone jack, I don't really mind because its not like Gameboy Advanced games have stellar sound or anything... some games do, but its basically still SNES style.

SNES has very nice sound, actually.

GBA's not very stellar, since it's got basically the same sound hardware as the original GameBoy, but a few games really do get some nice tunes out of that little PSG.

They could push it harder if the GBC mode Z80 was available for use in Advance mode(PSGs require a bit more processor power than more modern sound systems, and a spare processor dedicated to driving it would be very useful), but...

You can get an adapter and NEW batteries from Nintendo for cheap. I don't know how long they're gonna offer them, but you can still get a lot of old stuff from their store.

That's my point.

I don't like being held subject to their whim on how long I can use my games.

But it looks like you've done your own research and it doesn't float your boat.

That I have. And I did debate it, because I really hate the standard GBA's d-pad, and LOVE the SP's pad.

I didn't think lighting was an issue until I went back... lol .. never again.

It's either-or for me. Sure I can play Circle of the Moon in sub-optimal conditions, but on the other hand the light tends to wash out a lot of detail.

On the occasions where I 've used an SP, I've actually wound up turning the light off. I'm evil like that.

Also Nintendo stated that the DS isn't supposed to be a GB replacement... so I think we'll be able to get our batteries rather easily for at least a while longer.

The way I see it is that they're covering their butts.

If it bombs like the Virtual Boy, they haven't tainted the GameBoy name, and can just drop the same chipset into the (single-screen, non-touch-sensitive)GameBoy HyperAdvance for the next year.

If it does good... Expect to see it relabelled the GameBoy DS, and an end to single-screen portables.