Yamato Toys in general

[Angel's Fury]

I agree with you DrClay, crisp, marx. So much so, that I've learned some stuff just from your message.

[do not disturb]

i agree with you on certain points as i'm a big fan of die-cast. yeah the paint might chip time to time but i don't mind since it has some "meat" to it. i know if yamato made a diecast valk in some other scale(1/48 are way heavy as is) i would most certainly buy it....thats why i love my 1/60's.

what i'd really like to see is to take the perfect transformation from the 1/48 and incorporate it into a smaller scale valk. yeah i know, yamato needs to pick a scale but if they made them in like 1/100 scale and sold at a reasonable price, i know i'd be buying dups like crazy....i just want a mob of nice valks without going broke and more swooshable.

[Blaine23]

I heart die-cast like nothing else, Clay & the rest of my fellow metal-heads.

However, I don't think Yamato's been on a downward slide since the 1/48. I don't think the Q-Rau is a bad toy, only an overpriced one, perhaps.

As far going on and on about the terrible VF-0, well I have 2 thoughts.

1. No one I know has actually handled one. Hard to bitch about the quality of a toy that isn't even out yet. You may hate the design, as do I... but I can't say a bit about the quality.

2. Why focus on the VF-0 (which is obviously NOT meant to be like the 1/48 at all) instead of the VB-6 Koening Monster which looks awesome. Surely if anything compares to the 1/48 in size and complexity, it's this.

I too love die-cast... but the 1/48 works well without much. My dream would be big old die-cast destroids, but I can understand why die-cast is no longer in vogue.

Things change and things like die-cast fall out of favor... but that doesn't make Yamato on a downward slide. It's all perspective.

[Godzilla]

I see the problem with Yamato trying to decide which is a good scale to work on. Imagine a 1/48 VB-6 Koenig Monster. It would be pricey. But where in the hell would you put it? Ok, I can understand that ppl want the VF-0 series to be like the 1/48 VF-1. Hell I want a 1/48 VF-4, YF-19 and YF-21 but that aint gonna happen.

My beef with the VF-0 1/100 is that it looks too stubby (is it only me perceiving this?) and I need to replace parts to "transform it" it?

I was big into diecast until one day I put a toy full of diecast on a glass top table. My little cousin took the toy and started to bang it on the table. Good news was that the table was ok but imagine dropping it on the table. YIKES! Of course I was pissed about the HG MPCs less than advertised diecast content.

[RosarioLuv]

Getting worse? Not really sure about that, but of course, all I have in terms of comparison would be my 1/60's 'n 1/48's, so you guys probably get the idea. Now if YAMATO releases the VF-0 in the same aesthetic quality as in the pictures we are seeing right now, then that would be a first in terms of letdowns for me.

Hmmm, I wouldn't say quality is getting worse (as i declining), but I would say the rate of increase in quality is tapering off. In other words, if you start off with the Mac Plus Valks up to our current valks, you'll see that Yamato started out with a LOT of room for improvement, and well, they've done just that, improved, topping themselves off with the amazing 1/48's. Now how do you top THAT? You can top that, but not by as much as you could with earlier products like Mac Plus valks or even the 1/60 line. I'd say quality is still getting better each time around, but the rate at which it gets better is less inclined.

With that said, somehow the VF-0 doesn't fit in there. It looks ugly and it has no perfect transformation. Is this a quality issue? Or just a case of impossible-to-recreate-anime-magic-into-a-real-toy? (Has Kawamori finally designed an anime mech that CANNOT truly be made as a toy?) Either way, the VF-0 remains an anomaly with current Yamato trends. Can I borrow a forklift now so I can pick my jaw up offa da floor?

[RosarioLuv]

(Decided to move this post from the other thread here, where it's more relevant.)

...... it would be a good chance to release some high detailed, accurately proportioned, perfect transformation Mac 7 toys. ...........

.......there is so much other Macross stuff that I'm convinced would sell if only Yamato made them with decent sculpts, such as Mac Plus resculpts, Mac Zero Perfect Transformation toys, M3 mecha to name but a few.

Graham

Yeah, as a ferverent Macross fan, you look at all these other companies that churn out Transformers for TF fans and Gundams for Gundam fans a plenty, and you wonder, "Why doesn't Yamato do the same thing with Valkyries for Macross fans?" It seems like a no-brainer, right?

But I do believe the art of making Valkyries is in a different realm than Gundams and TF's completely. I think the reason we all love Valkyries so much is because there IS an element of "Magic" that goes into Valkyries that isn't there in Gundams and TF's: Valks have to look like realistic, almost seamless believable modern-day aircraft, AND have to transform into a believable mech robot that doesn't look just like a jet with arms and legs and head (like most TFs do). Most Gundams don't transform, and the ones that do have a very limited transformation sequence, many of which don't even have true perfect transformation (a part detatches and reattatches somewhere, etc...), not to mention in their transport modes, they still look very modular (as oppossed to a valk that looks 99% like a jet you couldn't even imagine could turn into a robot.). TF's don't even bother with realistic vehicle modes (except for the handful of Binaltechs that do exist) OR well-proportioned bot modes.

On top of all that, I'm pretty convinced that Gundam and TF toy sculpts are made FIRST, then the anime SECOND, as in the anime is made to sell existing toys, while Macross toys are made AFTER the anime and lineart are already made, which gives Valk designers an even extra task to pull out of their magic hat:

To make something from a 2-dimentional magic anime universe into a solid real 3-D toy that looks good in all 3 modes.

So much thought, zeal, time, money, and true understanding of engineering and physics goes into making even one of these, it's no wonder it takes forever for Yamato to come out with even one new sculpt at a time.

They're doing such a great job in terms of going where no one's gone before in the toy industry, accomplishing feats and levels of detail and complexity once thought impossible, that we just want more. There is a saying in history:

"Revolutions are started by people whose lives are getting better, but not fast enough."

And that's where we fall into place as Macross fans. Yamato is doing such a bang-up job, that now we expect more from them, and more and more and more and more, lol. The problem with creating great things is that it is often difficult to maintain such a high level output forever, especially when others expect so much.

If you were to chart most people's production levels throughout life on a graph,

the line would start as a concave curve, slowly going up and gradually increasing its slope until it hits a near vertical slope somehere in the middle (probably in our 20's) where it then becomes a convex curve that continues up, but starts to diminish in its slope until finally it approaches a mathematical limit (it gets closer and closer to the limit, but never actually touches it, infinitely) where it almost looks like it's a horizontal line. There's bound to be a time where a person (or a company, in this case) has to level off.

I think that's what Yamato is doing, at least as far as Macross is concerned (they also have other worlds besides Macross to explore.) Granted, as in the chart, the line never actually reaches its limit, which means, even when you reach close to the top, there is always room for improvement, no matter how late in the game.

P.S. Don't you like my nifty chart? Yes, I have too much time on my hands. Lol, one of these days, someone outta write an academic book that delves into a study of the inner psychological, economic, and social aspects of the toy industry and underground "culture" of the toy enthusiast. Maybe I'll call it, "If Toys Could Talk."

Oh wait a minute, someone already did a movie on that, called "Toy Story 2." lol

[do not disturb]

a most well thought out post...long but good.

we expect alot becasue we pay alot. my first 1/48 was worth ever penny of the $135 i shelled out for it. as i bought more and more, i felt like i was being ripped off cause of painting issues, QC problems,...but i think alot of that had to do with me buying the same toy(vf-1's) at the same price while nothing was being changed.

either way its a good post and agree.

[crisp]

@redemption:

Truly Spoken!

A good explanation about the Yammie-Situation!

The best probably so far!?!?

[jasonkimberson]

it yamato was as big as bandai or takara then i think we would be able to get quality products much faster and cheaper. but because they are small, development time is slow and the cost is higher to produce these toys. I think Takara has achieved a great task by producing the BT's and showing how good transformers could be. They basically follow the same rules as yamato, (preset car design, and trying to follow G1 anime designs)

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

I'm with clay and blaine, but with metal, I hate to say but if you put yamato + diecast metal + perfect variable=Loose parts/floppy limbs, and NUMERROUS PAINT SCRATCHES!! Why? yamato doent paint the diecast on thier stuff good! Hell my VF19A has more paint scrathces than my 2nd hand yelklowed, jetfire!! FOR THE price sold to the japanese market, I would LOVE a lot more diecast but my faith in yamato doing diecast RIGHT is really lacking. I am afraid it would just be a crappy mess. Now see if they were bandai yea i wouldnt have any problem they do diecast RIGHT.

But this is just my opinion. I think the 1/48 costs a lot in japan due to the mass amounts of small parts utilized in teh design. Making it perfect variable does not help either! The moplds for the damn thing must be HUGE and bulky i imagine.

As for the VF-0m sucking I blame it all on atelier sai!! What the hell, billy wong and nishikawa san made a parts removal design (1/60) VF-1, and it turned out looking WAY BETTER than the POS VF-0. Also yea it had its horrendous qualities but even its transformation did not have as much part swapping!! Thats GOTTA say something.

Yamato really sold out when they hired atelaier sai.

Now it makes me wonder why they couild not hihger nioshikawa sensei, or hell billy wong. Ya i know he wont sculpt anymore macropss but for a guy who lacks knowledge in fighter planes, he at least made PROPORTIONAL FRONT LANDING GEAR on teh macross plus toys~!!

Come on yamato shape up!

[Ignacio Ocamica]

I'm among the group that think Yamato toys have gotten better.

"The VF-0 is the exception that confirms the rule"

-The Mac Plus valks were okay (except from the VF 11 with osteoporosis).

-The 1/60 line got better with every release (I do believe the Q-Rau is a great toy, pricey but sculpt-wise it is perfect, and very playable, IMO). My two GBP 1S are perfect, balance well, click and fit very nice (I also think the sculpt is very accurate to the line art).

-The 1/48 line, what can I say!! (I'll only can nitpick in certain areas where I like the proportions of the 1/60 better, such as length and bulk of the arms and a sleeker nosecone and canopy, again IMHO).

Now, the König Monster will leave us speechless (if it doesn't, I have no problem to be stoned to death for this assumption ). It's an intricate design and I believe Yamato has pulled it off "almost" reaching perfection. I disagree with people on the other thread that don't like it's battroid mode. It is as good as a 3D model can be (I'm open to discussion). I don't get how people say that it does not resemble the line art in this mode.

Is it as off, as a Toynami MPC to the VF 1 series? Please, don't answer yes to this one.

Talking about QC, there are some issues now and then. Some acceptable some not, but all in all I think Yamato passed the exam.

Should Yamato sit back and relax? Hell no!!!! There is always room for improvement

Well, that's my 0,02 cents for all that matters.

Edited July 29, 2004 by Ignacio Ocamica

[DrClay]

I'm among the group that think Yamato toys have gotten better.

...yada yada yada...

Now, the König Monster will leave us speechless

etc., etc...

so, according to you, the q-rau is a better toy than the 1:48 VF-1? I know they are seperate scales, but one came out before the other... heck, even if you separate the scales into multiple toy lines, I still prefer any of the other 1:60s to the q-rau.

now... about that monster... it looks like it is gonna' RULE!!!!

of course, the Q-rau looked like it was gonna' rule too...

I think my big new problem with yamato is the q-rau... it is the last macross toy they have released and it is the only major disappointment IMO.

[Ignacio Ocamica]

so, according to you, the q-rau is a better toy than the 1:48 VF-1? I know they are seperate scales, but one came out before the other... heck, even if you separate the scales into multiple toy lines, I still prefer any of the other 1:60s to the q-rau.

No way the Q-Rau is a better toy than any of the 1/48's.

I just pointed out that it's a pretty good toy (it is more than a decent toy). I stated I had nothing to say about the 1/48's because they speak for themselves.

I'm aware that speaking about the Q-Rau there are three mayor complaints, the price, the pilot, lack of die-cast. I share some of this thoughts but none of this ruined my enjoyment of this toy. The sculpt is perfect, so is the design.

Even my two GBP armor have tight armor round the nosecone (many members reported that it pops out very often!).

I do respect your opinion that you prefer any of the other 1/60's to the Q-Rau. I myself enjoy all of my 1/60's (own the whole line) even after buying the 1/48's (don't own them all). I always ask for accuracy, durabilty and last, but not too important, playlability.

I would say Yamato makes two steps forward and one step back (the VF-0), but it still keeps on walking (insert your favorite scotch here )

I think we agree that the König will be the bomb!!

Edited July 29, 2004 by Ignacio Ocamica

[FlyingPika]

I'm among the group that think Yamato toys have gotten better.

...yada yada yada...

Now, the König Monster will leave us speechless

etc., etc...

so, according to you, the q-rau is a better toy than the 1:48 VF-1? I know they are seperate scales, but one came out before the other... heck, even if you separate the scales into multiple toy lines, I still prefer any of the other 1:60s to the q-rau.

now... about that monster... it looks like it is gonna' RULE!!!!

of course, the Q-rau looked like it was gonna' rule too...

I think my big new problem with yamato is the q-rau... it is the last macross toy they have released and it is the only major disappointment IMO.

u gotta look at the WHOLE trend. if something increaes alot, slips down once then continues increasing u cant say things are getting worse....

look at the YF-19.....

[Blaine23]

You know... when you consider Yamato's progression for MacPlus to 1/60 to 1/48... maybe we're all better off just admitting that the 1/100 VF-0 is simply not designed of us, is not really for the same Macross fans that enjoy all the other toys, and really should be ignored kinda like we mostly ignore the existence of Macross II.

We all hate it. The design has rendered it ugly and unfixable. I'd just as soon pretend it was a bad dream I had.

Think about it for a minute... if you remove the 1/100 as it was never conceived or designed, then Yamato's on a pretty good track and doing better.

To those that hate the Q-Rau, do the same thing.

This is all just fandom growing pains. Bandai's pissed off Gundam fans for eons, and won them back, etc. The VF-0 is my first real "I hate that" moment from Yamato, but it's outweighed by a ton of great toys.

[EXO]

Us fanboys will never be satisfied...

C'mon Yamato, make us a super huge Macross and we'll pay $1000 for it...

so Yamato comes out with it and charges $200...

WTF? $200 for a POS plastic with no die-cast... gimme a break, Yamato you suck!

Meanwhile in PM... Kevin, did you get my preorder? When can I paypal you for this toy..?

[crisp]

GREAT

Me also want one!

[do not disturb]

Us fanboys will never be satisfied...

C'mon Yamato, make us a super huge Macross and we'll pay $1000 for it...

so Yamato comes out with it and charges $200...

WTF? $200 for a POS plastic with no die-cast... gimme a break, Yamato you suck!

Meanwhile in PM... Kevin, did you get my preorder? When can I paypal you for this toy..?

thats just like what Max Jenius was saying about SW movies/fans. they all complain about how GL sucks but they still go out and buy the merchandise.

as far as the q-rau, sure its a bit pricey but it sure beats nothing.

[DrClay]

Us fanboys will never be satisfied...

C'mon Yamato, make us a super huge Macross and we'll pay $1000 for it...

so Yamato comes out with it and charges $200...

WTF?  $200 for a POS plastic with no die-cast... gimme a break, Yamato you suck!

Meanwhile in PM... Kevin, did you get my preorder?  When can I paypal you for this toy..?

more like, "c'mon yamato, release a huge die-cast Macross toy, i'd pay $120 for that!"

then yamato releases an all plastic toy and charges $120

"WTF? $120 for a POS plastic with no die-cast, i wouldn't pay over $80 for this!"

Meanwhile other MWer's post things like "you are a ridiculous fanboy for not forking over at least three digits for a piece of plastic... AND LIKING IT! We, more enlightened MWers enjoy paying double, sometimes triple whatever Yamato asks for, because that is the mature thing to do "

as far as the q-rau, sure its a bit pricey but it sure beats nothing.

well, at least when there was nothing, I had hope.

EDIT: added second quote and response.

Edited July 29, 2004 by DrClay

[eugimon]

You know... when you consider Yamato's progression for MacPlus to 1/60 to 1/48... maybe we're all better off just admitting that the 1/100 VF-0 is simply not designed of us, is not really for the same Macross fans that enjoy all the other toys, and really should be ignored kinda like we mostly ignore the existence of Macross II.

We all hate it. The design has rendered it ugly and unfixable. I'd just as soon pretend it was a bad dream I had.

Think about it for a minute... if you remove the 1/100 as it was never conceived or designed, then Yamato's on a pretty good track and doing better.

To those that hate the Q-Rau, do the same thing.

This is all just fandom growing pains. Bandai's pissed off Gundam fans for eons, and won them back, etc. The VF-0 is my first real "I hate that" moment from Yamato, but it's outweighed by a ton of great toys.

hmm, good point.

[valkyrietestpilot]

my thoughts are this:if the 1/48's i had included alot of parts in die-cast metal instead of plastic,i think i would have had more issues w/ it falling,getting bumped & just plain clumsy dropping the things.plastic will take a tumble too,but the die-cast seemed to me to fall more easily & more often.that extra weight would cause more damage each time too.my 1/60 ostrich & elint both have the metal legs & i think it works well for them,but i just don't think the big '48 would benefit in the same way as these.

i chose the quality improving option,cause i've never had any serious problems w/ any of mine.maybe i'm more cautious w/ mine in general cause of their cost,but i think i'm actually harder on my yamatos than i ever was w/ my chunky monkeys

[DrClay]

my thoughts are this:if the 1/48's i had included alot of parts in die-cast metal instead of plastic,i think i would have had more issues w/ it falling,getting bumped & just plain clumsy dropping the things.plastic will take a tumble too,but the die-cast seemed to me to fall more easily & more often.that extra weight would cause more damage each time too.my 1/60 ostrich & elint both have the metal legs & i think it works well for them,but i just don't think the big '48 would benefit in the same way as these.

i chose the quality improving option,cause i've never had any serious problems w/ any of mine.maybe i'm more cautious w/ mine in general cause of their cost,but i think i'm actually harder on my yamatos than i ever was w/ my chunky monkeys

is this a response to my die-cast rant? or is it a coincidence that you are talking about die-cast?

if it is a response to me, you should keep in mind that NOWHERE do I say the 1:48 should have more die-cast metal (maybe BP-08... but, hey) You make a great argument for why there shouldn't be more metal in a 1:48, but I could easily make a great arguement for why my chunky monkey is better off not being made of cheese, or some other erroneous point that is not being disputed by anyone.

if it is a coincidence that you just happened to need to talk about metal after I did... then, uhhh... good point? I think it would be too floppy also.

[Kin]

I'm not sure about diecast... if you put diecast and plastic together you will see some visual difference. Either it is full diecast or full plastic. I think only the gunpod and the shoulderjoint should be diecast.

As for the prices they offer... I'm not satisfied the way they treat the edges.. I can still see some molds leftovers and some parts are not fitted with precision.

But I'm happy with the technical aspect.

Edited August 1, 2004 by Kin

[valkyrietestpilot]

drclay,mmm,it wasn't a direct response to your post.the fact that you mentioned die cast just got me thinking & i was basically thinking out loud.alot of folks in past threads thought die cast would have been a good idea on the '48.after handling mine & seeing how they rest on shelves in fighter/battroid & gerwalk mode metal would change their whole center of gravity & make it too unstable.you don't here many folks say that less die cast is better,but in my opinion,i think it's better in this case.so,sorry man,my comments aren't ment to challenge yours in any way,they just got me thinking about this commonly discussed issue w/ valks

[Graham]

you don't here many folks say that less die cast is better,but in my opinion,i think it's better in this case.

Actually, I've always been very vocal supporter on Macrossworld of less die-cast metal parts is better on a transforming toy.

I'd be quite happy if all future Yamato Macross toys were all ABS and POM plastic, with only the bare minimim metal part where absolutely necessary for strength.

In fact if a toy is designed right, metal parts (apart from screws) aren't necessary. A good example of this is the Bandai 1/65 scale VF-17D/S toy. This toy has zero metal parts (except for screws and 1 or 2 pins), but is one of the sturdiest Macross toys ever made.

I don't mind die-cast metal parts on a non-transforming toy, but on a transforming toy, you inevitably get paint chipping and increased wear and often premature loosening of joints. Also, I've found that when a toy includes both die-cast metal and ABS plastic parts, it is often difficult for the manufacturer to get an exact color match between the painted metal and the plastic parts a good example of this is Yamato's YF-19 toy.

Graham

[JB0]

I don't mind die-cast metal parts on a non-transforming toy, but on a transforming toy, you inevitably get paint chipping and increased wear and often premature loosening of joints. Also, I've found that when a toy includes both die-cast metal and ABS plastic parts, it is often difficult for the manufacturer to get an exact color match between the painted metal and the plastic parts a good example of this is Yamato's YF-19 toy.

Graham

They could always make it entirely out of anodized aluminum parts.

Screw plastic. ALL METAL!

I admit it, I love my metal. A toy isn't a toy if it can't double as a melee weapon.

[TheLoneWolf]

chose a crap sculptor and/or a sculptor who is not a Macross fan....cough, cough Billy Wong and you get less than satisfactory toys.

Aside from the detachable legs, I think Billy Wong's 1/60 VF-1 has the best proportions out of all the VF-1's ever made. No small feat, even the mighty 1/48 suffers from gangly arms and shrunken hands.

I admit his Macross Plus toys were mediocre, but they were Yamato's first venture into Macross toys, their designs are near impossible to implement in a perfect-transformation toy, and he was working with a relatively small scale (1/72).

[Ignacio Ocamica]

Aside from the detachable legs, I think Billy Wong's 1/60 VF-1 has the best proportions out of all the VF-1's ever made.

I second that!!!

I really enjoy looking at all of my 1/60's (Q-Rau and GBP included). It's a great line.

I believe Billy Wong has done a good job.

[DrClay]

you don't here many folks say that less die cast is better,but in my opinion,i think it's better in this case.

Actually, I've always been very vocal supporter on Macrossworld of less die-cast metal parts is better on a transforming toy.

I'd be quite happy if all future Yamato Macross toys were all ABS and POM plastic, with only the bare minimim metal part where absolutely necessary for strength.

In fact if a toy is designed right, metal parts (apart from screws) aren't necessary. A good example of this is the Bandai 1/65 scale VF-17D/S toy. This toy has zero metal parts (except for screws and 1 or 2 pins), but is one of the sturdiest Macross toys ever made.

I don't mind die-cast metal parts on a non-transforming toy, but on a transforming toy, you inevitably get paint chipping and increased wear and often premature loosening of joints. Also, I've found that when a toy includes both die-cast metal and ABS plastic parts, it is often difficult for the manufacturer to get an exact color match between the painted metal and the plastic parts a good example of this is Yamato's YF-19 toy.

Graham

all good points, but there is a solution for you in your quest aesthetic perfection without die-cast metal. it is a completely different hobby called modeling. You and EVERYONE else here, it seems, are very vocal about your idea of the perfection of non-diecast toys, and those who love die-cast metal are considered to be irrationally dedicated to a dubious choice of building material. But you are describing modeling... actually, you are describing buying pre-built, sub-par models for expensive prices.

I think the 1:48 is great, but it has been described by many here as a model (it is more durable than most people give it credit for, but the description of it as a model is still more relevant than calling it a toy) aesthetically, in none of its modes does it look better than a hasegawa (especially in battaloid)

so what we have is the best perfect variable macross model around. it's great, but it's enough. if ALL macross toys are going to try to be the 1:48 (except without the scale... or the ability to transform without parts-swapping, or the detail, or the proportions, etc... etc...) then what happens to toys? you know... toys, like the chunky monkey? You say you love the 1:55, but then you back that statement up by telling us all that you're saving them for your kid, in other words, you have plans for how you will have them destroyed. have you ever stopped to think after you've put away all your ban-dais and 1:60s that maybe you've just grown out of toy collecting, and your wish for all valk "toys" to be beautiful and perfect-looking pieces of plastic on a shelf is actually an entirely new hobby to replace toy collecting?

you have your non-diecast metal toys, but do they all have to be that way? why can't TOY collectors like me have our hobby also? why does everyone feel the need to "enlighten" us on the benefits of pre-built models on a freakin' TOY forum? I think it's because the guy who runs the forum doesn't like toys anymore.

I'm sure many many people will "defend" you by attacking me... but there is no need for that. I have no business going to the "models" section of these forums, and I see now that I have no business posting in the "pre-built, expensive Yamato models" section of the forum either. so I will say no more here on anything else, and you all can cry out with one voice unanimous, "perfection of accuracy to line art, while impossible, is the ONLY measure of the quality of a toy or model! and the only difference between toys and models is whether it comes to you pre-built or in pieces"

[Drad]

well, i'll stop ranting for now... i just wish that SOMEONE agreed with me.

Diecast should be included for practical reasons. Using diecast for anything other than providing strength and balance is unnecessary. Don't get me wrong, I like the heft that diecast gives my old classic toys, but these days I find that I prefer it only where it's necessary. If diecast provides the necessary feel and look of quality for you, we've got more than enough wonderful choices these days. Lucky us! Personally, I've picked up the recent Masterpiece Convoy, the SOP Akira bike and I'm still trying to nail down a SOP Space Battleship Yamato.

Nice, solid metal looks and feels great, but it seems more prone to paint chipping than plastics.. something I hate. I don't handle my toys very much, but when I do, I don't want to have to worry about screwing up a beautiful paintjob. If the toy is molded in color, even better. Diecast does have its place.. but I don't want it in there just because it adds that substantial feel that many of us love our older toys for. It should be there to serve a practical purpose other than personal preference. Diecast takes me back to the days when I held a favorite toy in my hands and just knew that it was something good.. because I could feel it. That satisfying weight that told me that what I had was better than those cheap blister-carded toys on the aisles.

That was then. This is now. I'm older. My tastes have changed a bit, and simple diecast content isn't going to make or break a toy for me. I don't want to see a toy's quality judged primarily on how much diecast is in it, because that's just not fair.. especially today.

Fortunately for us, many of today's toys are made with better plastics, better engineering and design, and are more highly detailed than ever before.. making our beloved diecast less necessary than before. Sure, not all of them are collector gold, but you've gotta admit.. we're seeing some awesome stuff come down the pipe. I for one, am enjoying the ride.

This has been a posting of my opinion. Thanks for allowing me to share it, and the rest of you are certainly entitled to your own.

Edited August 2, 2004 by Drad

[Graham]

all good points, but there is a solution for you in your quest aesthetic perfection without die-cast metal. it is a completely different hobby called modeling. You and EVERYONE else here, it seems, are very vocal about your idea of the perfection of non-diecast toys, and those who love die-cast metal are considered to be irrationally dedicated to a dubious choice of building material. But you are describing modeling... actually, you are describing buying pre-built, sub-par models for expensive prices.

I think the 1:48 is great, but it has been described by many here as a model (it is more durable than most people give it credit for, but the description of it as a model is still more relevant than calling it a toy) aesthetically, in none of its modes does it look better than a hasegawa (especially in battaloid)

so what we have is the best perfect variable macross model around. it's great, but it's enough. if ALL macross toys are going to try to be the 1:48 (except without the scale... or the ability to transform without parts-swapping, or the detail, or the proportions, etc... etc...) then what happens to toys? you know... toys, like the chunky monkey? You say you love the 1:55, but then you back that statement up by telling us all that you're saving them for your kid, in other words, you have plans for how you will have them destroyed. have you ever stopped to think after you've put away all your ban-dais and 1:60s that maybe you've just grown out of toy collecting, and your wish for all valk "toys" to be beautiful and perfect-looking pieces of plastic on a shelf is actually an entirely new hobby to replace toy collecting?

you have your non-diecast metal toys, but do they all have to be that way? why can't TOY collectors like me have our hobby also? why does everyone feel the need to "enlighten" us on the benefits of pre-built models on a freakin' TOY forum? I think it's because the guy who runs the forum doesn't like toys anymore.

I'm sure many many people will "defend" you by attacking me... but there is no need for that. I have no business going to the "models" section of these forums, and I see now that I have no business posting in the "pre-built, expensive Yamato models" section of the forum either. so I will say no more here on anything else, and you all can cry out with one voice unanimous, "perfection of accuracy to line art, while impossible, is the ONLY measure of the quality of a toy or model! and the only difference between toys and models is whether it comes to you pre-built or in pieces"

Modelling is all well and good if you have the skill, time and patience to master it, which I don't unfortunately . For me, model kits could never replace my love of toys for the simple reason that they are just too damn fragile. Yes a well built model will almost always look better than any toy, but unfortunately they just don't stand up to anything but the most gentle of handling. I occasionally pay to have models built (beacuse I can't paint worth a damn), but only if it's of a design I really like of which there is no toy yet. I love my three painted Hasegawa Macross models (SV-51, VF-0S & VF-22S), but I'd much prefer toys of them, as I can't enjoying handling or playing with the models as I'm in constant fear of breaking them.

Actually, I don't think anybody here is saying that those who love diecast are irrational. All I'm doing is stating my reasons why I personally don't like diecast in a transforming toy.

I'd definitely agree with you that the 1/48 is more durable than most people give it credit for, but I'd have to disagree that describing it as a model is more relevant than calling it a toy. In my opinion, the 1/48 is most definitely a toy as it can be played with, handled and transformed fairly roughly with little fear of breakage.

The main reason my 1/55s are in storage is that I simply have no space to display them. Houses in HK are small and I only have space for 1 display cabinet. If I had a bigger house, my 1/55s would probably still be on display. As it is I prefer to display the nicer looking (IMO) Yamato Macross Plus toys, Yamato 1/60 VF-1 toys and the Yamato 1/48 VF-1 toys, which completely fill up my display cabinet. As for saving the 1/55s for my son, why is that destoying them? I don't plan to give them to him until he is old enough to appreciate them. Plus I have my own collection of 1/55 toys as well. He's not getting all of them you know

I hope, I will never grow out of toy collecting. And just because a piece does not have any diecast doesn't mean it is not a toy. Personally I prefer toys that are durable and can be handled without fear of breakage. However, I do want my toys to look as accurate as possible to the source material, given the limitations of the sculptors and toolmakers skills. And with the current state of toymaking technology, it is possible for toy companies to make toys which are durable, playable and yet asthetically pleasing either with or without diecast as Yamato and other toymakers have shown us. It's just my personal experience that diecast does not always equal durability or playabilty.

I hope nobody will defend me, there's certainly no need to, as I don't feel I'm being attacked.

I don't know why you get the impression I don't love toys? I'm still an avid toy collector, and love toys, but for both financial reasons and space limitations, my toy collecting these days is limited to Macross.

Graham

[EXO]

Wow... Dr. Clay... you're like...

insane.

No one was attacking you. All I saw was people adding to a pro and con discussion. I love die cast as much as the next guy, I think the MP Prime is awesome and see it as the ultimate toy that has been released recently. But what's this about using die cast as a weight for balance? Prime still tends to lean back and forth because all it's weight are resting on the two small ball joints at the ankle. And the Truck mode suffers from a perfect form. I still love it, but nothing compared to the 1/48. Which "toy" do you think will look better in a couple of years? The scratched up Prime of the 1/48, or even the Q-Rau.

Can you even imagine how the 1/48 landing gears will hold up with the FPs? Or just how heavy the whole thing is with the FPs.

Toy, model, call it what you want. I don't really see the point to your crusade. Are you hoping Yamato would recall all the toys they sold to replace them with your wet dream?

[JB0]

The main reason my 1/55s are in storage is that I simply have no space to display them. Houses in HK are small and I only have space for 1 display cabinet. If I had a bigger house, my 1/55s would probably still be on display. As it is I prefer to display the nicer looking (IMO) Yamato Macross Plus toys, Yamato 1/60 VF-1 toys and the Yamato 1/48 VF-1 toys, which completely fill up my display cabinet.

That's what string is for! Hang 'em from the ceiling! Tie 'em to the fan! May all your guests walk under a dogfight as they enter!

[Graham]

That's what string is for! Hang 'em from the ceiling! Tie 'em to the fan! May all your guests walk under a dogfight as they enter!

LOL...that's actually a pretty good idea. Unfortunately, my present house doesn't have ceiling fans I remember my parents first house in HK in the mid-70s had ceiling fans and my elder sister and me had great fun putting toys on the fan blades, then turing on the fan and watching them fly accross the room

Don't think my wife would agree to hanging toys from the ceiling though . Also, I'd probably be worried about the string breaking and the toys falling on baby. A 1/55 falling on to the head of a 7 week old baby from a height of 8 or 9 feet would probably not be good for babies health.

Graham

[JB0]

That's what string is for! Hang 'em from the ceiling!  Tie 'em to the fan! May all your guests walk under a dogfight as they enter!

LOL...that's actually a pretty good idea. Unfortunately, my present house doesn't have ceiling fans I remember my parents first house in HK in the mid-70s had ceiling fans and my elder sister and me had great fun putting toys on the fan blades, then turing on the fan and watching them fly accross the room

Don't think my wife would agree to hanging toys from the ceiling though . Also, I'd probably be worried about the string breaking and the toys falling on baby. A 1/55 falling on to the head of a 7 week old baby from a height of 8 or 9 feet would probably not be good for babies health.

Graham

Install fans for just that purpose!

Yah. Falling VFs WOULd be a hazard...