Knight26 Posted November 2, 2005 Posted November 2, 2005 I think in the end the biggest problem with the prequels is a lack of prior planning and writing. Lucas should have written them all at once, or more appropriately should have appointed someone to write them all at once. The biggest thing to remember when writing a prequel is that you have to assume that the audience has not read/seen what comes later, turst me it is a major pain. As I have said before if it had been properly written then someone who was new to star wars, never having seen the OT shoudl have been able to watch the whole thing in order and still have been surprised as to the revelations concerning Vader and Leia. Also I am not saying that ANakin neded to start off evil. Put a true decent into evil needed to be shown. He needed to be a bad @$$ from the start a kick butt fighter and a force to be reconed with. Instead we get a whiny teenager who get manipulated, fairly easily I might add. I liked seeing Palps as a behind the scenes manipulator, it fit the character well but it still didn't feel right at many points. Oh and of course my biggest issue, put some freaking guys in the trooper armor, the CG was way too obvious.
Radd Posted November 2, 2005 Posted November 2, 2005 1) ...their practices of demanding studio's produce edited content versions of media in order for them to carry it. - If Walmart wants to only sell certain things because of the convictions of the Walton family/the other higher ups in the company and/or their desire to appeal to certain demograph of customer, more power to them. If you don't like what they're selling, go through a store or source that sells what you are looking for. No one should hold a gun to their head for what they want or want not to sell. Just a thought. Does WalMart really advertise that they do this editing? I mean, sure, there are those of us who pay attention to such things, and so can make an informed decision as to whether or not we'll shop there. However, the vast majority of people don't tend to pay attention to stuff like this, so if they walk into a store and go to pick up their favourite recording artist's latest album, unless there's a 'WalMart Family Friendly Edition!' sticker plastered right on front, they're being misled. Of course, if a person is upset by this practice, don't they have a right to dislike the cause of their frustration, and to inform others? I agree with the comment on the vegetarians, but I hardly see how it relates. This would be more like Burger King having a "Vegetarian Salad" with meat hidden inside of it. As for your other points, I agree and disagree with some of what you say. However, again, this is hardly the place for a discussion about Walmart's business practices and I've indulged this probably too much already. Back on the Ep3 topic, I was at Walmart this morning (tee-hee) and noticed that the bonus DVD seems to only be packaged with the Full Screen version of the movie.
eugimon Posted November 3, 2005 Posted November 3, 2005 wow.. I never watched the other prequel movies on the small screen as those were too bad to warrant a second watching but now that I'm watching this one the whole live shots on CG sets looks so horrible... the actors never look right against the super crisp backgrounds.. the hazing around all the edges... ugh. all the other complaints I have with this series have already been brought up... but let's all have a cheer for John William's score, woohoo!
Keith Posted November 3, 2005 Posted November 3, 2005 If Walmart wants to only sell certain things because of the convictions of the Walton family/the other higher ups in the company and/or their desire to appeal to certain demograph of customer, more power to them. If you don't like what they're selling, go through a store or source that sells what you are looking for. No one should hold a gun to their head for what they want or want not to sell. Psst, you'll note I'm not supporting their store, didn't purchase ep III there, and in fact have never set foot inside, or used their online site. And while it is their choice to carry or not carry something, it should "not" be their choice to demand watered down versions of things, and then not inform the unsuspecting consumer that they're being sold an inferior product. If they sell product that reflects their ideals (term used loosely), they should make it themselves, not infringe upon others. It isn't just Walmart that "stomps on the little guy". All the other retailers and electronic stores you mentioned are striving to be the biggest and best that they can be and guess what? There are smaller companies and stores that lay in their wake too. Perhaps the same will happen to any of them and even Walmart, too. For about a decade, Nintendo was THE only name in video games for nearly a decade and pretty much were a monopoly over the console market. A decade later, where are they now? No, there's a special kind of stomping involved there, not just the average big chain store style. The kind that kreeps into run down neighborhoods, crushes local business, and forces those who don't want to submit to illegal forms of employment to submit to their will. Oh, and they prop up old people at the door, that's just freaky. - Perhaps they are evil after all! What are the cicumstance for this? Is this an individual store thing or a company thing? If the store is doing an all store inventory and need to shut down during hours they would be usually opened, it would make sense to lock the store up. I don't recall what exactly happened the one or two times we did inventory at the Walmart I was at, but during the two years I was at this one major store that sold pet and farm supplies, we would usually do our inventory on a Sunday and we would have our doors locked to keep the public out (hey, we were closed!).\ Circumstances? Did you happen to miss the whole media blitz about walmart locking in their night clean up staff, pretty much consisting hispanics who weren't too fluent in english, and were arguably not legal citizens, in the stores, by themselves, no key to get out, etc until morning. Not isolated incidents, and nothing to do with inventory.
cobywan Posted November 3, 2005 Posted November 3, 2005 2)...stomping out mom & pop shops - It's just the nature of capitalism. 3)...locking their employee's in the stores & forcing them to stay - Perhaps they are evil after all! What are the cicumstance for this? Point 2 makes a clear case for what is inherently wrong with capitalism. It is self destructive if left unchecked. The true cost for cheaper goods is higher than most people want to believe. (Outsourcing and near poverty level workforce.) Malwart even has enough leverage to bully Microsoft around. You know that company in Alien that runs everything? Guess who that's going to be. Point 3. There was a lawsuit brought against Walmart for locking illegal imagrants from Easter Europe in some of thier stores to do cleanup for $2 an hour or something equally rediculous. I don't shop at Walmart because they're not worth going out of my way to find in Seattle and the one in my small hometown is really gross. The building the employees and the shoppers give me the willies.
eugimon Posted November 3, 2005 Posted November 3, 2005 guys, this is getting out of hand... I hate walmart as much as the next guy (having had to do tech support for them for two years) but you all should move off this particular topic.
Sumdumgai Posted November 3, 2005 Posted November 3, 2005 Wal Mart: Episode III - Revenge of the Topic Strayers
pfunk Posted November 3, 2005 Posted November 3, 2005 No more Wal-mart talk.END OF LINE. 341844[/snapback] I was thinking about taking a trip too,,, Anyway, I got the DVD and 1st time I saw ROTS, thought it was pretty good, cept for the emperor fight scene, they needed a stunt double
mikeszekely Posted November 3, 2005 Posted November 3, 2005 I got my Episode III at Best Buy. Yes, the lithograph is pretty lame, but $15 - $3 (from the fries I ate at lunch), plus the fact that Best Buy is on my way home from work were more compelling reasons to stop at Best Buy. Over the years, I've heard a lot of complaining about the PT, but I think a lot of that is that the OT has been placed on this pedastal, not so much that it's inherantly better. At work, to promote Star Wars Battlefront II, we put a New Hope and Return of the Jedi in our TV towers. From inside the store, we could hear but not see the films. I can safely say that the dialogue and acting is most definately as bad in those films as any of the prequel trilogy. The disparity is that, as younglings, the orignal trilogy captured our impressionable imaginations, while the prequels failed to live up to 20 years of fanboy expectations.
Hurin Posted November 3, 2005 Posted November 3, 2005 Over the years, I've heard a lot of complaining about the PT, but I think a lot of that is that the OT has been placed on this pedastal, not so much that it's inherantly better. At work, to promote Star Wars Battlefront II, we put a New Hope and Return of the Jedi in our TV towers. From inside the store, we could hear but not see the films. I can safely say that the dialogue and acting is most definately as bad in those films as any of the prequel trilogy. The disparity is that, as younglings, the orignal trilogy captured our impressionable imaginations, while the prequels failed to live up to 20 years of fanboy expectations. 341910[/snapback] Well, in my foolish youth, I would have disagreed. But all the pratfalls, fart-jokes, and pandering to pre-teen children clearly brings the PT up to the level of the OT. Thankfully, the PT are indeed masterpieces! And, despite the stark differences and contrasts in tone and intended audience, they're all the same and the friggin' fanboys need to accept that they are all wonderful in the Star Warsy goodness. H
Agent ONE Posted November 3, 2005 Posted November 3, 2005 EVERYONE, make sure you note Hurin's member title.
Majestic Posted November 3, 2005 Posted November 3, 2005 Well, in my foolish youth, I would have disagreed. But all the pratfalls, fart-jokes, and pandering to pre-teen children clearly brings the PT up to the level of the OT. Thankfully, the PT are indeed masterpieces! And, despite the stark differences and contrasts in tone and intended audience, they're all the same and the friggin' fanboys need to accept that they are all wonderful in the Star Warsy goodness.H AHahahahahahahahahah! Hurin, I'd be willing to adopt you if you weren't already Agent One's son.
JsARCLIGHT Posted November 3, 2005 Posted November 3, 2005 Can someone also enlighten me on the whole use of the word "younglings" in the PT? I mean, people obviously call children "children" several times in the PT (notable instances are when Anakin is brought before the council they call him a child, when teen Anakin kills the sandpeople he kills their "children", not their "younglings"). Seems the first and only instance of "younglings" was Yoda in ep 2 and then suddenly it sticks and everyone is saying it. Is it like the term "corilleans" in the OT? The only reason I ask is that they call kids children several times in the PT, yet in the last movie it's "younglings" this and "younglings" that... I personally smell a script PC cop-out by Lucas, not willing to have his actors say "Killed Children".
Hurin Posted November 3, 2005 Posted November 3, 2005 The only reason I ask is that they call kids children several times in the PT, yet in the last movie it's "younglings" this and "younglings" that... I personally smell a script PC cop-out by Lucas, not willing to have his actors say "Killed Children". 341929[/snapback] Perhaps. But giving him the benefit of the doubt, "younglings" may in fact be the "title" for children that have become members of the Jedi order. So, you start as a "Youngling" and work your way up to "Padawan". . . "Knight". . . "Master". . . etc.
JsARCLIGHT Posted November 3, 2005 Posted November 3, 2005 If that is the case then the Jedi lost a lot of luster in my mind. What other classes of Jedi are there? "Oldster"? It all just lends more creedance to the thought that the PT was a dumbed down, kiddie-a-fied execution. I mean "younglings" just sounds retarded.
Hurin Posted November 3, 2005 Posted November 3, 2005 (edited) If that is the case then the Jedi lost a lot of luster in my mind.What other classes of Jedi are there? "Oldster"? It all just lends more creedance to the thought that the PT was a dumbed down, kiddie-a-fied execution. I mean "younglings" just sounds retarded. 341947[/snapback] Quiet you! Don't you get it!?! If you don't like the prequels, then you are obviously a huge --and probably socially mal-adjusted-- fan of Star Wars. You are, in a word, a "fanboy." You must love them and reflexively defend them at all times. All unflattering comparison to earlier films must be derided and the differences between the films blurred. Otherwise, you, my friend, must be a fat nerdy fanboy. Send me your home address. I'll send you your anti-fanboy training kit. The first installment consists of the "New Jedi Order" novels. Those are pretty much required reading. And, by the end of the month, you'll be required to write a five-page essay on why midichlorians really don't make the Force any less cool. Ironically, for your first few years in the anti-fanboy program, you will be referred to as a youngling. *shrug* Edit: Spelling. Puncuation. Total lack of coherence. Edited November 3, 2005 by Hurin
Agent ONE Posted November 3, 2005 Posted November 3, 2005 If that is the case then the Jedi lost a lot of luster in my mind.What other classes of Jedi are there? "Oldster"? It all just lends more creedance to the thought that the PT was a dumbed down, kiddie-a-fied execution. I mean "younglings" just sounds retarded. 341947[/snapback] Youngling > Appretice > Master... Makes sense to me. I don't necessarily think it was some stupid PC jive to call the kids "Younglings."
JsARCLIGHT Posted November 3, 2005 Posted November 3, 2005 The PC I was talking about was having the characters not say "killing children", something children would identify with and feel fear... instead they are "killing younglings". Seriously though... the Jedi rank system goes from retarded sounding to neat sounding. It used to be Jedi Apprentices, Jedi Knights and Jedi Masters. Now it's "Younglings", "Padawans", Knights and Masters. How can you have an organization with such boss top teir titles have such corny sounding entry level titles? It's like saying you have to be a Handjobber before you can be a Asskicker.
Agent ONE Posted November 3, 2005 Posted November 3, 2005 The PC I was talking about was having the characters not say "killing children", something children would identify with and feel fear... instead they are "killing younglings".Seriously though... the Jedi rank system goes from retarded sounding to neat sounding. It used to be Jedi Apprentices, Jedi Knights and Jedi Masters. Now it's "Younglings", "Padawans", Knights and Masters. How can you have an organization with such boss top teir titles have such corny sounding entry level titles? It's like saying you have to be a Handjobber before you can be a Asskicker. 341967[/snapback] Yeah, so you were never an intern?
JsARCLIGHT Posted November 3, 2005 Posted November 3, 2005 Nope never was. I was a private, a corporal and a sergeant though.
eugimon Posted November 3, 2005 Posted November 3, 2005 The PC I was talking about was having the characters not say "killing children", something children would identify with and feel fear... instead they are "killing younglings".Seriously though... the Jedi rank system goes from retarded sounding to neat sounding. It used to be Jedi Apprentices, Jedi Knights and Jedi Masters. Now it's "Younglings", "Padawans", Knights and Masters. How can you have an organization with such boss top teir titles have such corny sounding entry level titles? It's like saying you have to be a Handjobber before you can be a Asskicker. 341967[/snapback] children could be any childrenn... was anakin wandering the halls of Toy'R'Us and randomly offing tykes? Did he take in a movie on his way to becoming the big bad and kill those damn kids that talk during the movie? Youngling just differentiates them jedi kids with normal kids. And really... there's plenty of other things wrong with the movie to gripe about than what they call their tykes...
Jolly Rogers Posted November 3, 2005 Posted November 3, 2005 I got mine from Walmart, comes with an exclusive bonus DVD. 341612[/snapback] What are the contents of that DVD? The Beast Buy Lithograpgh so far is the lamest "freebie" associated with the DVD. 341628[/snapback] I haven't had a chance to watch it yet but it looks like a clips show from all 6 movies hosted by the droids. Here's a box shot:
Jolly Rogers Posted November 3, 2005 Posted November 3, 2005 Here's an enlarged version of the text on the back of the Walmart exclusive DVD, which you get when you pay 5 bucks extra for it (make sure you get the Widescreen version):
Sundown Posted November 3, 2005 Posted November 3, 2005 (edited) Over the years, I've heard a lot of complaining about the PT, but I think a lot of that is that the OT has been placed on this pedastal, not so much that it's inherantly better. At work, to promote Star Wars Battlefront II, we put a New Hope and Return of the Jedi in our TV towers. From inside the store, we could hear but not see the films. I can safely say that the dialogue and acting is most definately as bad in those films as any of the prequel trilogy. Well I'm not exactly sure comparing the dialogue tracks between the old and new movies is exactly a good way to compare movies, since both and meant to be watched and acting is as much about facial expressions and body language as it is about annunciating lines from a script. At any rate, my experience has been the exact opposite... I'd rewatched the trilogy a little bit ago to make sure that it wasn't just nostalgia that made me think the originals much better movies. It wasn't. The dialogue, while campy in a few places, was delivered in a much more compelling, convincing, and entertaining manner (then again the OT had the benefit of Ford's ad-libbing). The writing, while not academy award stuff, was simply tighter and better. It wasn't that much longer after that I saw Sith, and although I enjoyed it as Star Wars themed fluff, I ended up groaning and rolling my eyes in more places than I cared to. The two shouldn't produce such different reactions from me when they're see so close together and in context of each other. I'd also shown A New Hope to a friend who actually hadn't seen most of the OT before and even he could see the differences and why I might enjoy one more than the other. The actual differences between the PT and the OT isn't illusion or nostalgia. Nostalgia and familiarity do make us react more strongly when we spot those differences... but there have been too many reasonable critiques and too many well-argued comparisions of the two films for the differences to be explained away glibly as being just a figment of our imaginations. -Al Edited November 3, 2005 by Sundown
Jolly Rogers Posted November 4, 2005 Posted November 4, 2005 I was listening to the DVD while working yesterday, and most of the dialogue jsut struck me as unemotional and delivered in a very flat manner. I wish the editor could have let Palpatine's "Not from a Jedi" resonate for a second or two before changing to the war on Chewy's planet... that would have made the opera scene sink in so much better.
Hurin Posted November 4, 2005 Posted November 4, 2005 And really... there's plenty of other things wrong with the movie to gripe about than what they call their tykes... 341973[/snapback] Vader's tiny hands have been covered.
Zor Primus Posted November 4, 2005 Posted November 4, 2005 Bought the Wally World set, havent seen the bonus disc but I did see the deleted scenes. My question is why didn't he just leave them??? Especially the one where Palps talked to Anakin after the Comittee of 2000 left the office. Lucas can't even tell his own story.
eugimon Posted November 4, 2005 Posted November 4, 2005 Bought the Wally World set, havent seen the bonus disc but I did see the deleted scenes.My question is why didn't he just leave them??? Especially the one where Palps talked to Anakin after the Comittee of 2000 left the office. Lucas can't even tell his own story. 342174[/snapback] most of those scenes I'm glad he left out... lucas can't direct politcal intrigue if his life depended on it... and those scenes were so stilted and stiff and just dragged on.
azrael Posted November 4, 2005 Posted November 4, 2005 With those deleted scenes, Lucas was trying to keep the focus on Anakin. Those scenes would have been good for backstory but it would have moved away from Anakin. Maybe he'll bring them back in the Prequel Special Edition.
emajnthis Posted November 4, 2005 Posted November 4, 2005 I thought the prequel was too much lights and sound and less depth with the characters. George Lucas is a great story teller i his writing and is a visual master, but when it comes to directing and dialogue he's way under par. Probably why episodes IV V & VI dialogue writer was outsourced and V & VI weren't directed by him either.
uminoken Posted November 4, 2005 Posted November 4, 2005 I thought the prequel was too much lights and sound and less depth with the characters. George Lucas is a great story teller i his writing and is a visual master, but when it comes to directing and dialogue he's way under par. Probably why episodes IV V & VI dialogue writer was outsourced and V & VI weren't directed by him either. 342287[/snapback] And yet this is the same Lucas who brought us American Grafitti and THX 1138....where did it go wrong George?
Hurin Posted November 5, 2005 Posted November 5, 2005 And yet this is the same Lucas who brought us American Grafitti and THX 1138....where did it go wrong George? 342322[/snapback] He had children. Just after Empire and Raiders of the Lost Ark and before Jedi and Temple of Doom, he both adopted a child and divorced his wife. Now, this is just a lame theory of mine and some might find it offensive that I am psychoanalyzing this guy from afar, but the result of these life events was Short Round and Ewoks. And it's a long, ever accelerating downward slide of pratfalls, fart jokes, and pandering to pre-teen children ever since. . . H
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