Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith

[JsARCLIGHT]

I prefer to call it China-Mart myself.

[Radd]

Can we keep the flimsy political rhetoric out of the Star Wars thread? There's barely enough room for the fanboy arguments as it is.

[eugimon]

so true... let us limit this thread to SW EP III and how lame it was for ben just to leave anakin there and not walk over and kick him into the lava.

heh.

I think I'll get the target set... I don't know what I'll do with the nifty coing... maybe I'll sharpen up the edges and use it as a jedi throwing disc of DOOM!

[Knight26]

I always thought that the first movie should have had anakin as a teenager already in Jedi training. His previous slavehood could have then just been explained and his relationship with Padme begun then, and the war could have started at the end. The second movie then would have shown his decent into darkness, and possible violent conception of the twins, relationship is no longer as loving. ANd of course end with his epix duel with Kenobi where, as descirbed in the RotJ novel he would be kicked into the lava pit and thought of as dead. The third movie would then be the jedi purge with a young badassed, mysterious vader wading in and wiping out jedi as the empire is born and the end of hte clone wars. Also the whole thing could be written in such a way that you don't know who vader is, so that people who have not seen the original trilogy can still be surprised by his revelation in Empire. THis could be done pretty simply really. In the first movie keep Qui Gon and have ANakin be his apprentice. Obi-Wan having just made knighthood then has his own Padawan, someone equally young and head strong. Qui Gon and Obi-Wans first apprentice both die, but no body is recovered from the first apprentice, he falls with Maul, whatever. Then when this new Darth Vader appears no one know who he is and hints are given that he could be either Anakin or Obi-Wans first Padawan. ANyway that is just my take on it. Really Anakin never comes of so much as evil in RotS as whiny, and selfish, no real evil, at least none you see on screen, though it is hinted that he slaughter Jedi Children and some of his slaughter of the Seperatist leaders was shown.

[JsARCLIGHT]

In my eyes the one and only plot point that is labored upon to make people believe Anakin is "evil" is his killing of the children. Personally I feel Lucas added that plotpoint and kept beating on it because it was really the only truly evil thing he does in the prequels that everyone can obviously look at and say "yep, he's done gone bad". In epidsode One he is a lovable little scamp... in episode two he is a typical whiny teenager... and in episode three he is portrayed as somehow learning his lesson and being a good Jedi and then *ping!* a cotter pin pops out and he's suddenly evil.

I'm still holding out hope that we see something of the time between ep 3 and 4, so we can see how Vader gets his rep as such a badass... I mean, if all we have to go on are the movies then Vader's imposing reputation as the Empire's wicked attack dog is all smoke and mirrors.

And who is actually running out to buy this thing today? I talked with a few SW geeks at my office and of the three only one is running out to buy it at lunch. The other two are still "on the fence".

[Radd]

I don't know. I rather like the idea of the prequel trilogy ending with Anakin being enclosed in the suit. Still, I do agree that more developement could have been done leading to that point. As said, Episode I, Anakin's childhood, could have been condensed into a fairly short amount of screen time. Either handled as the very beginning of Episode I, before moving to Anakin's teenage years, or through flashbacks in that first movie.

I'd go on, but really, is it worth agonizing over such fan conjecture?

[Hurin]

I'm still holding out hope that we see something of the time between ep 3 and 4, so we can see how Vader gets his rep as such a badass... I mean, if all we have to go on are the movies then Vader's imposing reputation as the Empire's wicked attack dog is all smoke and mirrors.

341349[/snapback]

There's actually a book that covers it here.

Though, I couldn't even get ten pages into this authors last SW book (Labyrinth of Evil). He seems dry to me.

Couldn't agree more with your criticizms of Vader's development. Lucas's Rolling Stone interview really explains his thinking on it, though to my mind, his thinking only makes it worse. He wanted Vader to be an idiot, a dupe, and a pathetic henchman who's just been bamboozled. I could rant again about how this represents a complete change to probably even how Lucas viewed the character twenty years ago, but then BSU would probably send A1 over to my house again for another session of punching and anal bleeding.

H

Edited November 1, 2005 by Hurin

[capt.actionjackson]

I can't imagine that there would be a lot of SW fans running out there and buying this today. I think we all know that sooner or later (holiday season next year?), GL will release the uber 6 film box set remastered with all new scenes and even more characters that get less than 1 minute of screen time! I'm too jaded by eps 1-3 to buy these individually.

[bsu legato]

but then BSU would probably send A1 over to my house again for another session of punching and anal bleeding.

341355[/snapback]

He only does it because he loves you. Remember, it hurts him more than it hurts you.

[Agent ONE]

[eugimon]

but then BSU would probably send A1 over to my house again for another session of punching and anal bleeding.

341355[/snapback]

He only does it because he loves you. Remember, it hurts him more than it hurts you.

341379[/snapback]

only because you flinch and tighten up... you gotta learn to relax.

[Effect]

The author of this new Vader novel does seem pretty hit or miss at times. I've heard that Labyrinth of Evil was pretty try but Star Wars : New Jedi Order - The Unifiying Force was actually pretty good. Not good enough to save that entire series of books (nearly the whole series was just bad, shock value, poor planing, etc.... think the horribleness that was Gundam SEED Destiny but spread out over some 19 (I think that's the number) novels) but still pretty good in it's own right.

I want to get the dvd but I'm going to wait a week or two. No going to go out and rush to get it. Take my time. They aren't going to discontinue it after a few days. Plus I'll wait and see which stores are having it at a lower price or putting it on sale for a short time to help sell other items in the same section.

[goldenboy_forever]

the dvd being sold at target comes with a darth vader coin, best buys is offering a

a metal coper color plaqe thing of darth vader but you have to be a member of there video game club only 100 carried at each store. Also there selling light sabers for 100 buck at best buys you save 20

from Rich

[areaseven]

The DVD sold at Target comes with a Darth Vader coin. Best Buy is offering a metal copper colored plaque of Vader, but you have to be a member of their (NOT "there") Video Game Club; only 100 are available at each store.  Also they're (again, NOT "there") selling light sabers for 100 bucks (you save $20). 

from Rich

341435[/snapback]

Cool beans. Too bad I'm severely strapped for cash right now.

[jwinges]

Actually I rather like a couple of the deleated scenes. Plus by going out on the first day or two its released you get the ultra low price. $14.99 Next week it will be $19.99.

The lithograph is nothing special. But man people were buying lightsabers today. As I was waiting best buy sold 9 lightsabers!

[Stamen0083]

... and in episode three he is portrayed as somehow learning his lesson and being a good Jedi and then *ping!* a cotter pin pops out and he's suddenly evil.

341349[/snapback]

The movie's handling of Anakin's descent into the darkness is, to put it lightly, pure poo. The novelization is infinitely better, goes into far greater details, and talks about the demons Anakin has to fight, Sidious' skills of manipulation, and how hurt Obi-Wan really was when he had to leave Anakin for dead.

The movie is nothing but flashy graphics and a few lines to hide that fact. (However, Lucas did get the flashy effects very right. As crappy as the movie was, I still enjoyed it lots.)

[Noriko Takaya]

Went to Best Buy today to buy my copy and found something infinitely better. Right in front of me, next to the ROTS display, were copies of The Wild Geese and Zulu Dawn offered as a dual pack. I bought these along with the Star Wars DVD and Darth Vader lightsaber. Yeah, I'm pathertic, but I'll be watching the mercenary movie first. I love The Wild Geese.

[Macross73]

What if we see the redemption of the series

a mini series on the aftermath of a ROTJ, and they use Dark Empire for source material and fill in with flashbacks to flesch out the Movies

No not likely but ... Dartht Vader is no cry baby and he was as evil as he could be for more sinister reasons right? I mean its DARTH VADER he struck fear into you the moment you saw him in ANH!

[myk]

I can't imagine that there would be a lot of SW fans running out there and buying this today.  I think we all know that sooner or later (holiday season next year?), GL will release the uber 6 film box set remastered with all new scenes and even more characters that get less than 1 minute of screen time!  I'm too jaded by eps 1-3 to buy these individually.

341358[/snapback]

Heh. I camped out in my '69 at a local Wal Mart just to get the DVD. After all of the commotion I got it home and then discovered that I couldn't even watch more than 20 minutes of the thing. I enjoyed ROTS when it came out, but now it's just a really bad movie to me...

[JsARCLIGHT]

Who here thinks ROTS with suffer the same fate as the other two prequels in the home market?

I know that when I first saw Eps 1 and 2 in the theater (can sort of say the same about three but not entirely) I left the theater rather satisfied... but after watching and re-watching the prequels on DVD I quickly started to hate them for many reasons that I guess it took rewatching to come to light.

So does this crowd think ROTS will age well or turn to vinegar?

[Fortress_Maximus]

I certainly this ROTS will turn to vinegar, but then again it helps to remember that many people regard ROTS as pretty well done. *meh* ROTS simply was too watered down for my tastes, it just was not twisted, dark and wicked as it should've been. Anakin was not a badass and his physical and emotional transformation to Vader needed more screentime. I refuse to buy the prequels, I am perfectly happy without them in my life.

[Agent ONE]

The only thing that would have made T3h Prequels better is if Arnold Schwarzenegger, had played Ev3ry part... Kind of like Eddie Murphy in Comming to America.

I mean come on, think about it, his hands would be the perfect size.

[eugimon]

The only thing that would have made T3h Prequels better is if Arnold Schwarzenegger, had played Ev3ry part... Kind of like Eddie Murphy in Comming to America.

I mean come on, think about it, his hands would be the perfect size.

341500[/snapback]

still would have been too short for vader.

[Barpharanges]

I got the Freebie Lithograph from Best Buy today, and it is quite the rush job. I'm not sure if the American version is any different, but the Canadian version has a strange starry background made up of the German Iron Cross and five pointed stars with Andre the Giant's "OBEY" face in each centre. WTF does that have to do with Star Wars?

[Keith]

Er, I think you mean Walmart?

Have you been channeling Michael Moore's spirit recently or what?  Going out of your way like that to smear Walmart is typical of liberals who love medocrity and hate success.

And I say this even though I was let go from a Walmart about 13 years ago after just two months of employement (didn't like the position anyway and it was for the best) and my mom has been an employee of a competing retailer for nearly 20 years.

341332[/snapback]

I was referring more to their practices of demanding studio's produce edited content versions of media in order for them to carry it, stomping out mom & pop shops, locking their employee's in the stores & forcing them to stay, etc. Nothing political about it.

[eugimon]

Er, I think you mean Walmart?

Have you been channeling Michael Moore's spirit recently or what?  Going out of your way like that to smear Walmart is typical of liberals who love medocrity and hate success.

And I say this even though I was let go from a Walmart about 13 years ago after just two months of employement (didn't like the position anyway and it was for the best) and my mom has been an employee of a competing retailer for nearly 20 years.

341332[/snapback]

I was referring more to their practices of demanding studio's produce edited content versions of media in order for them to carry it, stomping out mom & pop shops, locking their employee's in the stores & forcing them to stay, etc. Nothing political about it.

341532[/snapback]

heh. damn straight.

[Chowser]

I got the Freebie Lithograph from Best Buy today, and it is quite the rush job. I'm not sure if the American version is any different, but the Canadian version has a strange starry background made up of the German Iron Cross and five pointed stars with Andre the Giant's "OBEY" face in each centre. WTF does that have to do with Star Wars?

341505[/snapback]

I bought the Target version with the free coin.

Ummm....Lucasfilm,...umm...why are they using SWORDS?????

that was the back of the coin.,

here is the front

[Hoptimus]

Yeah I got mine at Target also.

Watched the deleted scenes I really wished they would have been in the movie(well maybe not the Shakti scene..that one was not nec)

Especially the Rebel Alliance sub-plot and also just seeing Yoda land on Dagobah.

[Radd]

The beginnings of the Rebel Alliance are the scenes I really, really wanted to see put back in the movie where they belong. No reason not to for a DVD release.

[Knight26]

I watched a little of the extras and seriously what is Lucas smoking? He wanted to make Vader a more sympathetic/vulnerable/pathetic character, what a crock of horse dung. A pawn like that really doesn't do the kind of evil that Vader is implied to have done in the movies/novelizations/radio dramas. I think he made that garbage up because he wrote the prequels so badly. It would have been so much beasier/better to have made Anakin/Vader so much evil, but at the same time show a hint of the humanity that would eventually save him in the end. Think about it had he written it right Anakin could have been this total badass, you show him slaughtering jedi, but when he gets to the younglings he holds back and instead of slaughtering them himself he just orders the trooper to do it, or just stands by while they are slaughtered. Overall I will stay with my original trilogy and imagine my own prequels these just don't really work for me, I am so disillusioned, lol. Oh yeah and 12 days to Edwards.

Edited November 2, 2005 by Knight26

[Jolly Rogers]

I got mine from Walmart, comes with an exclusive bonus DVD.

[Apollo Leader]

I  was referring more to their practices of demanding studio's produce edited content versions of media in order for them to carry it, stomping out mom & pop shops, locking their employee's in the stores & forcing them to stay, etc. Nothing political about it.

341532[/snapback]

Just to reply to some of your points:

1) ...their practices of demanding studio's produce edited content versions of media in order for them to carry it. - If Walmart wants to only sell certain things because of the convictions of the Walton family/the other higher ups in the company and/or their desire to appeal to certain demograph of customer, more power to them. If you don't like what they're selling, go through a store or source that sells what you are looking for. No one should hold a gun to their head for what they want or want not to sell.

A few years back, a bunch of whiny vegetarians out in California (I believe) were wailing about Burger King not having a vegetarian menu. Hello??? Buger King is a friggin' HAMBURGER JOINT! The vegetarians should either go to a place that satisfy their needs in the first place or create a "fast food" place for vegetarians. It would be silly for me to show up at Wild Oats and demand that they sell big greasy cheeseburgers and they were evil in denying me from doing so. Just like Burger King has got their own thing going on with fast food, Wild Oats with health food, so does Walmart with what they want to sell and cater.

2)...stomping out mom & pop shops - It's just the nature of capitalism. In the case were Walmart is coming into these smaller towns (if it's too small, there not opening there anyway), Walmart is offering a better price and selection then what those local stores do. Obviously the consumer is going to go with the better price and selection.

It isn't just Walmart that "stomps on the little guy". All the other retailers and electronic stores you mentioned are striving to be the biggest and best that they can be and guess what? There are smaller companies and stores that lay in their wake too. Perhaps the same will happen to any of them and even Walmart, too. For about a decade, Nintendo was THE only name in video games for nearly a decade and pretty much were a monopoly over the console market. A decade later, where are they now?

3)...locking their employee's in the stores & forcing them to stay - Perhaps they are evil after all! What are the cicumstance for this? Is this an individual store thing or a company thing? If the store is doing an all store inventory and need to shut down during hours they would be usually opened, it would make sense to lock the store up. I don't recall what exactly happened the one or two times we did inventory at the Walmart I was at, but during the two years I was at this one major store that sold pet and farm supplies, we would usually do our inventory on a Sunday and we would have our doors locked to keep the public out (hey, we were closed!).

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Edited November 2, 2005 by Apollo Leader

[Southpaw Samurai]

In regards to the Target coin's back. I can understand the cross guard looking part...might've been hard to get them to look like they were fighting with something other than broomhandles if you didn't try to emphasize the difference between handle and blade....

...still doesn't explain while it looks like one of them has a scabbard hanging from his belt.

I got the ROTS DVD solely just to finish my legitimate copies of the series, but I think it'll definitely be the last chunk of change Lucas sees from me unless he releases an untouched (except for any cleaning up) version of the OT or maybe if he does a set down the road with adjustments that actually improve the series.....

You know what's strange? I was never a TPM hater like so many fans (for fear of my life I'm not going to mention that I actually like the character of Jar Jar and feel he's just the unfortunate focal point to the wrong kinds of silliness in the movie), but I think TPM might wind up being the only PT movie that improves a bit on re-watching. Not that the writing nor acting gets better, but because you learn to live with the issues and beyond that is a sort of wide-open tale that actually feels antiquated compared to the OT (I think Lucas took to heart people saying it needed to look like the OT and by ROTS, the PT looked like they might have happened five months before the OT). TPM had a very 'period piece' feel to it which I think works for telling a prequel story.

[Jemstone]

I got mine from Walmart, comes with an exclusive bonus DVD.

341612[/snapback]

What are the contents of that DVD? The Beast Buy Lithograpgh so far is the lamest "freebie" associated with the DVD.

[Apollo Leader]

I watched a little of the extras and seriously what is Lucas smoking?  He wanted to make Vader a more sympathetic/vulnerable/pathetic character, what a crock of horse dung.  A pawn like that really doesn't do the kind of evil that Vader is implied to have done in the movies/novelizations/radio dramas.  I think he made that garbage up because he wrote the prequels so badly.  It would have been so much beasier/better to have made Anakin/Vader so much evil, but at the same time show a hint of the humanity that would eventually save him in the end.  Think about it had he written it right Anakin could have been this total badass, you show him slaughtering jedi, but when he gets to the younglings he holds back and instead of slaughtering them himself he just orders the trooper to do it, or just stands by while they are slaughtered.  Overall I will stay with my original trilogy and imagine my own prequels these just don't really work for me, I am so disillusioned, lol.  Oh yeah and 12 days to Edwards.

341571[/snapback]

Haven't had the chance to watch the extras (actually hard to say when I'll get to watch the DVD period! ), but what would have been the point if Anakin had been completely evil to begin with? He would have never been a Jedi, never would have been friends with Obi Wan, and would have never have brought into being the two children that would one day stand up to him.

When you watch both trilogies through, you see how both Anakin and Luke's lives almost perfectly parallel each other. Though both of their upbringings and influences result in different paths at a very crucial moment(s) in their lives(though Anakin is brought back from the Dark Side at the end).

Though there are some questionable things about the prequal trilogy and they are trying to cram a lot into 3 two-hour movies, Anakin's story is suppose to be one of tragedy with an ending of redemption.