The DUTCH factor.. Importance of PREDATOR

[Agent ONE]

ewilen, his wife, my GF and I went to see Anchorman last night, and on our way out of the theatre we were discussing the fact that there was a Planet of the Apes reference in the movie. My GF mentioned she had never seen the original Planet of the Apes... I said that she didn't like Sci-Fi of any kind (but she likes Macross) and she didn't even like Predator, in fact she hated it. I expected ewilen to realize with that fact that my GF is just nuts when it comes to good movies, and we can just all be amused by her strange taste.... However that didn't happen. ewilen told us he had never seen Predator... How is this possible? I don't know. But I thought there is a possibility that I put too much emphasis on this movie, but I always thought of it as a film that redefined non-corny Sci-Fi and brought big budget into the ACTION/Sci-Fi genre. (Notice I say ACTION/Sci-Fi so that no Star Wars fan wants to kill me)

So guys am I right? Is Predator just the most awesome thing ever? Doesn't ewilen need to drop whatever he is doing and go and see this?

[Max Jenius]

Aliens vs Predator vs Dutch/Dillon/Billy/Hicks/Blaine/Mac/Poncho/and Danny Glover along for the ride > SW

[Stamen0083]

Damn, you don't have a middle ground option.

I thought Predator was a decent film. Arnold kicked some ass, which is nice (though I wonder if it would have been better if the movie was remade and Kristanna Loken was doing the ass kicking), but I don't think Predator really had much to do with sci-fi, per se. Action movies, yes, but not sci-fi.

I believe the films that defined non-corny sci-fi are Alien/Aliens. Definite classics. Freakin' smart guns KICK ASS!

[Max Jenius]

Damn, you don't have a middle ground option.

I thought Predator was a decent film. Arnold kicked some ass, which is nice (though I wonder if it would have been better if the movie was remade and Kristanna Loken was doing the ass kicking), but I don't think Predator really had much to do with sci-fi, per se. Action movies, yes, but not sci-fi.

I believe the films that defined non-corny sci-fi are Alien/Aliens. Definite classics. Freakin' smart guns KICK ASS!

Heh...

Kristiana covered in mud... mmmmmm....

[Isamu Atreides 86]

yeah, i'm gonna have to go with Stamen on this one. Alien/Aliens were two of the biggest defining Sci-fi flicks. Predator was just out and out cool, and arnie was pretty good in that one, but i'll take Aliens anyday. i guess for me Aliens is the ultimate in Action Sci-fi. for this reason i don't think AvP will be good.

to steal Agent ONE's phrasing:

No Colonial Marines = not a good Aliens movie.

[zeo-mare]

i do think this one is a classic, it may not be the next star wars in qaulity and story telling but there is still something about it that you have to like, the predator is one of the pivital sci-fi creations out of hollywood in the last 2 decades along side the Alien and the Terminator. This character will always have a important part in sci-fi movies. to top it off it also helped Agent ONE's favorite actor continue his box office journey and become what he is today(at least in my veiw), one of the biggest money grossers in holywood history

how can you go wrong with that

chris

[GobotFool]

For me pivital SF movies are Alien, Terminator and Star Wars OT. So many modern movies use the formulas these movies revitalized or created. They are also some of the most referenced sci-fi films today. Predator is a great movie but it just didn't have the same impact.

Alien = Made sci-fi horror respectable again.

Terminator= revisioned our fear of out of control technology.

Star Wars = Well, Star Wars is Star Wars, does much have to be said?

Predator = Awesome action and concept. The predator is some of Stan Winston's finest work, that thing in no way looks like a costume. So costuming FX wise it set a new standard that still even with modern FX, many movies do not live up to.

I'd dump Predator in the same catagory as Robocop. A movies that is a great flicks, but sadly didn't leave as much of a lasting mark as the 1st three I listed.

Edited July 23, 2004 by GobotFool

[Southpaw Samurai]

Predator taught me at a tender age of thirteen that:

1) Jokes about women's private parts are only as funny as the guy telling them.

2) If it bleeds, you can kill it.

3) Native Americans team members will suddenly freak out and start cutting themselves before sacrificing themselves for no good reason.

4) We're all expendable assests.

5) Chewing tobacco will not only make you a sexual tyrannosaurus, but also governor of Minnesota.

6) When in doubt, deforest until your clips run dry.

7) We're a rescue team, not assassins. After all, would assassins run around with mini-guns?

Fully trust a female captive, especially if she's the only female for miles around.

9) The best way to rescue anyone is to lay waste to where they're being kept.

10) In the jungle, EVERYONE can hear you scream.

In terms of sheer, mindless, testosterone-filled fun, Predator can't be beat, but its significance to the genre of sci-fi movies is debatable. Although on a different budget scale, Arnie's previous Conan and Terminator (and the non-Arnie Aliens) might be considered better forerunners for the ACTION-scifi/fantasy genre that spawned in the eighties. And has there really been much in the way of good contributions since these films? Predator is not Oscar material, but compared to some of the crap that tried to imitate it or follow in its footsteps, it's practically Shakespeare.

[ewilen]

That's me, the one "not seen" vote so far.

I saw a bit of it on TV once. Not enough to form a judgment of the movie itself. My impression from years of secondary exposure is that it's an action movie dressed up as science fiction. I agree that Alien(s) is more of a science fiction movie with lots of action.

As for influential, I don't know. If you exclude the big franchises (SW, Trek, B5), I think both Alien(s) and Terminator loom large in modern (post-1975) SF. Blade Runner is also probably influential as a portrayal of near-future societal decay, where previously the future was supposed to be clean and utopian (or clean and dystopian like in Logan's Run). The Mad Max series was perhaps the best of the "modern" post-civilization movies. There's a lot of other stuff out there both before and after 1975 that I'd call classic or at least great, but this isn't a "greatest SF films" thread so I won't post a list.

Anyway, as has been pointed out elsewhere, Predator does have the distinction of launching (or at least furthering) the careers of two future governors: Jesse Ventura and Arnold Schwarzenegger. What's next? Governor Carl Weathers? Senator Predator?

Don't worry, A1--Predator is now officially on my "to rent" list.

Edited July 23, 2004 by ewilen

[GobotFool]

That's me, the one "not seen" vote so far.

I saw a bit of it on TV once. Not enough to form a judgment of the movie itself. My impression from years of secondary exposure is that it's an action movie dressed up as science fiction. I agree that Alien(s) is more of a science fiction movie with lots of action.

As for influential, I don't know. If you exclude the big franchises (SW, Trek, B5), I think both Alien(s) and Terminator loom large in modern (post-1975) SF. Blade Runner is also probably influential as a portrayal of near-future societal decay, where previously the future was supposed to be clean and utopian (or clean and dystopian like in Logan's Run). The Mad Max series was perhaps the best of the "modern" post-civilization movies. There's a lot of other stuff out there both before and after 1975 that I'd call classic or at least great, but this isn't a "greatest SF films" thread so I won't post a list.

Anyway, as has been pointed out elsewhere, Predator does have the distinction of launching (or at least furthering) the careers of two future governors: Jesse Ventura. What's next? Governor Carl Weathers? Senator Predator?

Don't worry, A1--Predator is now officially on my "to rent" list.

Damn, can't believe I forgot to mention Blade Runner or Mad Max in my 1st post on this topic. O.o

BTW I'd vote for the Predator over most humans :-p

Edited July 23, 2004 by GobotFool

[Blaine23]

I saw Predator and RoboCop right around the same time. Much as I do love Predator - it features the only ass-kicking guy named Blaine ever in film - I have to say it didn't redefine SciFi or anything for me. RoboCop made much more of an impression with its cynical humor and it's bigger questions re: humanity and technology.

I will say that Predator is easily the second best Arnie movie behind the incredibly awesome Conan the Barbarian.

BTW - You mentioned Anchorman, A1 - what did you guys think of it? People either love it or hate it.

Edited July 23, 2004 by Blaine23

[JELEINEN]

I don't think Predator is at all defining, but it, along with the Alien(s) movies, are important to the genre in that they represent a paradigm shift. Specifically, if you follow the treatment of aliens (small 'a') in SF over the years, you can see various trends. In the 50's, they were BEMs for heroic humans to fight. In the 60's they became superior to us, morally and/or technologically. In the 70's they became just like us, but different. In the 80's, with films like Predator they went back to being BEMs again.

[Stamen0083]

BTW I'd vote for the Predator over most humans :-p

Maybe the Predator is what we need to unite the two parties.

Dissenters will be killed and their skulls will be displayed as trophies.

[GobotFool]

BTW I'd vote for the Predator over most humans :-p

Maybe the Predator is what we need to unite the two parties.

Dissenters will be killed and their skulls will be displayed as trophies.

Wheeeeeee ^^ I can think of several politicians I'd like to see that happen to

[Agent ONE]

....

I will say that Predator is easily the second best Arnie movie behind the incredibly awesome Conan the Barbarian.

BTW - You mentioned Anchorman, A1 - what did you guys think of it? People either love it or hate it.

Anchorman was awesome!

[Agent ONE]

Who is voting for "Predator is lame ass?"

I think you 3 (so far) need to explain yourselves... This is a shock to most I am sure.

[Jolly Rogers]

Blame yourself for not providing something in between the extreme choices.

[ewilen]

Anchorman was awesome!

Yep. You can tell that Will Ferrell and his buddies handle a lot of the scenes via improv and multiple takes, and in a few scenes I feel that they never quite nailed it. But there are many, many scenes where I was dying.

I also enjoyed seeing Christina Applegate...I know she's been in other stuff since Married With Children, but I missed those, so this is the first time I've seen her in a non-airhead role.

[Dat Pinche Haro!]

Predator was a a good film but it was more of an action movie than a scifi flick...

[Agent ONE]

Blame yourself for not providing something in between the extreme choices.

There IS a middle option.

The thread is more about the first two options though, meaning I am looking to see if people feel like I do, that Predator is important to a genre, or not.

[Mechamaniac]

I voted option 2.

I really don't consider Predator a sci-fi movie. I mean, yeah, it had an alien in it, but other than that, it really was just a kickass, bloodletting, lead slinging, wang dang, bombastic, ass kicking free for all!! What is priceless in Predator are the team interaction scenes, and their sheer willingness to lay down fountains of lead at the drop of a hat.

Also cool were the many, many ways that dudes got mangled in that film. I mean, where else do you get guys getting blow'd up, pasted with plasma blasts, impaled, skinned, and deboned, pinned to trees (Stick around!), pummeled with log traps, evicerated, and just generally shot, and beat the hell up....all in one film!! They really took ass kicking to a new level in that movie.

Predator is one of my favorite films of all time. And I totally agree with Blaine23 on this one, second best Arnie film, no doubt. Arnie will never EVER top Conan, it was just the coolest.

Coolest quote from Predator????? EASY.

Time to pull old painless outta the bag!

Also, strange that this topic should come up just three days after the LONG AWAITED release of the Predator Special Edition DVD set. Yeah, the same one you limeys in region 2 have been able to get for years....

Going to get my copy tonight as a matter of fact...

Edited July 23, 2004 by Mechamaniac

[Jolly Rogers]

There IS a middle option.

Between "great" and "lame ass"? The only choice was "I haven't seen it", which is not exactly middleground like "good", "average", or "OK".

The movie was good but wasn't good enough to spawn a franchise on its own after an average sequel, or imitators that only fail so bad to show how good the original was. To be a genre-defining icon I think it has to have at least a parody film (e.g. Spaceballs).

Added:

This is really a Vietnam movie if you think about it... a team of American soldiers trapped in a jungle, being hunted by an enemy they cannot see. All the firepowers at their disposal couldn't save their hide because they weren't thinking guerilla tactics. I remember as a kid seeing some Vietnam war movies where the soldiers got mangled worse than Dutch's team.

Edited July 23, 2004 by Jolly Rogers

[Dangard Ace]

I don't think it re-defines anything but it is a kick-ass movie. In fact it takes the succesful parts of the first two alien movies and relocates it.

location: Spaceship or desolate planet

Alien(1979) - scary-ass space monster

Aliens(1986) - (future/space/colonial) marines corp taking names whupping-ass and getting whupped

location: some jungle in south america

Predator(1987) - one scary-ass space monster facing off against an elite modern day whup-ass testosterone filled rescue team.

Plus the music and ambiant sound effects in that movie rocked.

[Mr March]

Predator was a solid Action/Sci-Fi film, but it did little to promote science fiction. Most laymen don't even consider the film science fiction, merely an Arnie action vehicle that just happens to pit the Hollywood hero against an alien. In my opinion, I think Predator was a fantastic action film. Ranking it among Arnold's film accomplishment, it's certainly one of the best and Arnold did well in it. From a pure acting standpoint, Arnold was at the best he ever was as an actor (which is not his strength) in Predator. Time has also been very kind to the film, being very watchable even to this day. As film, Predator's main claim to fame would be its contribution to the subgenre.

See, the film Predator, like Aliens, is primarily a return to the "monster movie." While we fans rarely see any connection between Predator/Aliens and the classic drive-through films featuring giant ants or apes, it is true that the newer creature films are simply modern, jazzed-up monster flicks. As a member of that subgenre, Predator was a fine addition and a noteworthy title. It took special effects to a new level, created a truly original monster to thrill audiences, and had plenty of aesthetically pleasing action sequences.

Aside from being a noteworthy film in monster movie history, Predator didn't do much else to distinguish itself. As science fiction, it offered very little in the way of creative story telling or new technological/political/sociological/cultural/psychological concepts. But this is not a criticism; the large majority of great films become noteworthy only in their niche. Few transcend being the title of "great sci-fi flick" or "great action flick" and become a truly great film, regardless of classification.

But just as a final note, any fan of science fiction or action films should certainly not miss Predator. If I were teaching a course on such a topic, Predator would be required viewing

[Mr March]

Also, strange that this topic should come up just three days after the LONG AWAITED release of the Predator Special Edition DVD set. Yeah, the same one you limeys in region 2 have been able to get for years....

Going to get my copy tonight as a matter of fact...

Whoa! Since when was the Predator Special Edition release date July 20th? I haven't seen the DVD in any stor e yet and most of the websites are publishing the set release date as August 10, 2004. If that thing is out already, I'm going to the store tonight to get it!

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...?v=glance&s=dvd

[dr_vandermeer]

Predator is a kick ass movie. Jesse Ventura was never better.

[CoryHolmes]

Predator is one of the best sci-fi films in recent history, for all the reasons listed above and even a few more.

Unlike almost every other Hollywood movie in existance, the men and woman in Predator were able to share screentime WITHOUT falling in love. It seems that almost no film has ever been able to do that without adding some romantic sub-plot.

Predator is also great because it did something that most other monster movies avoid doing: it waited for a while before showing the creature. That allowed the audiences to let their imaginations go to work and ratcheted up the tension significantly.

[Commander McBride]

I'm number two on the "Never seen it" list. Not sure why, I guess I just never had a chance to see it. For that matter, I've never seen any of the Ailen series, either. Maybe I'll pick up the Predator SE when it hits stores.

[mikeszekely]

Blame yourself for not providing something in between the extreme choices. 

There IS a middle option.

The thread is more about the first two options though, meaning I am looking to see if people feel like I do, that Predator is important to a genre, or not.

No, Agent, you definately needed one more choice. I didn't vote, but basically, I'll say this-

Predator did NOT define the sci-fi genre for me. Don't get me wrong, I'm not really a huge Star Wars fan, but I think that Star Wars has made more of an impact than Predator.

However, it definately did make a mark on the sci-fi industry. How many other shows have you seen, from South Park to Simpsons to fan-made movies galore, that have a character in one of the Predator's stealth invisible things? Or the heat-vision with strange alien characters?

Besides, it was a kick-ass movie to boot.

[Gaijin]

I voted for the first choice...as afar as I'm concerned Predator took the monster movie and Sci-Fi and blended it well enough not to be just another me too movie...even though it was. While it didn't "define" sci fi for me, it certainly added quite a bit to the genre as a whole.

[MrDisco]

So guys am I right? Is Predator just the most awesome thing ever? Doesn't ewilen need to drop whatever he is doing and go and see this?

the most awesome thing ever? no.

[mk16]

There should be an "Eh" oftion on that poll

[soze]

....

I will say that Predator is easily the second best Arnie movie behind the incredibly awesome Conan the Barbarian.

BTW - You mentioned Anchorman, A1 - what did you guys think of it?  People either love it or hate it.

Anchorman was awesome!

No Arnold = Not a good movie

Edited July 25, 2004 by soze

[Agent ONE]

There should be an "Eh" oftion on that poll

So you are one of the guys that voted for "lame ass" huh?

The movie is so great its beyond words, but I guess not everyone is like me... Too bad for them.

[Agent ONE]

....

I will say that Predator is easily the second best Arnie movie behind the incredibly awesome Conan the Barbarian.

BTW - You mentioned Anchorman, A1 - what did you guys think of it?  People either love it or hate it.

Anchorman was awesome!

No Arnold = Not a good movie

Well I should have said:

It was awesome as NON-Schwarzenegger movies go.