Official Gundam Seed Destiny Thread

[Druna Skass]

The ultimate weapon would be a mini-GENESIS, or a nuclear missile with a mirage colloid.

310945[/snapback]

The problem with putting mirage colloid directly on a nuclear missile is that mirage colloid requires tremendous energy to maintain (which is why Blitz had to turn off its Phase Shift when it went invisible). How do you plan to generate the energy to shroud each missile in mirage colloid? I imagine that a mirage colloid system and a power source to maintain it would be prohibitively expensive if it could even feasibly be installed to begin with.

In fairness, Azrael and the Alliance couldn't reasonably have expected that Freedom and Justice would show up and be able to pick off the individual missiles, and earlier in Destiny, the Alliance had no idea that ZAFT had developed a weapon that could cause nukes to explode prematurely. Adding mirage colloid to the whole missile barrage would have seemed like incredible overkill at the time, so it's tough to blame them for just lobbing naked missiles at PLANT.

Loading up a mirage colloid-equipped ship with missiles is more feasible, but then you'd have to send separate ships on suicide missiones to each and every space colony, which also seems rather excessive.

311004[/snapback]

Well the fact that a nuclear reactor can be loaded onto a 17m tall MS, means that in this era, they are not very big. So just modify the missile to accomodate an MS style reactor. You make the missile invisible then you don't need to make it super agile or as tough as the Archangel herself.

Now that things like the N-Stampeder have been revelealed the Atlantic Federation knows what it expect. So what good will a Stampeder do if you don't even know where the missiles are.

As for price, the MC is installed on the N Dagger Ns, the mass production version of the Blitz, so that system isn't that expesnsive if the Alliance is mass producing it.

[kalvasflam]

As for price, the MC is installed on the N Dagger Ns, the mass production version of the Blitz, so that system isn't that expesnsive if the Alliance is mass producing it.

311105[/snapback]

This all comes back down to the fact that when you have a story that need any kind of logic, all the superweapons (especially the mass produced ones) look very silly. An MC equipped ship is ideal since you carry a large weapons load and even have range to go in from long distance.

Hell, even if they knew there was a ship somewhere in the vicinity and is cloaked, you couldn't fill space with enough volume of fire to bring it down. The Stampeder thing probably has a very very limited firing arc anyway.

[Druna Skass]

An MC equipped ship is ideal since you carry a large weapons load and even have range to go in from long distance. 

I'd say an MC equipped long range missile would be better since you could fire it from the Moon Base. With that you wouldn't even have to get near PLANT.

[kalvasflam]

An MC equipped ship is ideal since you carry a large weapons load and even have range to go in from long distance. 

I'd say an MC equipped long range missile would be better since you could fire it from the Moon Base. With that you wouldn't even have to get near PLANT.

311124[/snapback]

It's a bit debatable on that one actually. The real reasons you want a ship to do it are two folds:

1. It depends heavily on the cost of the individual MC units. Although if it was a war winning weapon, then it doesn't matter as much. 50 MC equipped missiles probably still cost less than that EA fleet that was blown away.

2. The bigger reason is you want the man in the loop. Your ship gets you close enough to see if you need a follow on strike. Or if the target needs to be changed, or even if you need to call off the strike, it's better for the ship captain to make the decision on the spot. (i.e. five nukes wasn't enough to finish off ZAFT military HQ, need to up that number to 10)

The downside is of course, three or four of those ships are probably a little more vulnerable than 50 MC equipped missiles if one gets shot down, there goes a good percentage of your strike capability.

Think of it like the Stealth bomber, with it, if you wanted to deliver nukes, you can change targets all the way up to the release point, where as ICBMs, once you shot it, it's too late to change targets, can't call it back, etc, etc

[phuqueue]

Loading up a mirage colloid-equipped ship with missiles is more feasible, but then you'd have to send separate ships on suicide missiones to each and every space colony, which also seems rather excessive.

311004[/snapback]

There aren't that many PLANTs. About two dozen? Not much.

According to the background info that came out way before SEED even started, there are about a hundred PLANTs. Not sure if any other info has since overridden that. We certainly haven't seen that many PLANTs in the actual animation, but then again, we've also seen Aile Striker replace Force Impulse, so this is clearly a staff that likes to take shortcuts and doesn't worry about details.

Equip the ship with NJC and have it nuke powered, that solves your energy problem.  When you're inivsible, you don't need to worry about phase shift.  Can't see it?  Don't know it's there, so you can't hit it.  Remember how the Blitz penetrated the defense on the asteroid?  They didn't know he was there until he fired the first shot.

I wasn't suggesting that the missiles needed phase shift, I was simply using the example of Blitz not being able to run both at once to show that mirage colloid requires a pretty healthy amount of energy to maintain.

How expensive do you actually think a mirage colloid is?  Hell, even if you had to sacrifice the cost of an entire fleet to build a dozen ships equipped with a mirage colloid, you'd do it because it gives you a decisive edge

But it is even simpler than that.  You take one or two Mirage colloid equipped ships, load them up with missiles, and then you nuke the military HQ and the political HQ of PLANT.  Decapitate them, now PLANT is uncoordinated and fairly defenseless, then you send in ordinary nukes.

I'm not trying to defend the Alliance in general here, I'm just saying putting mirage colloid on each individual nuclear missile might be impractical. We can make assumptions that it's not that expensive or that we can just make the missile a little bigger and it'll all fit, but they're just assumptions. I'm just kind of giving the show the benefit of the doubt here...but with as incompetent as the Alliance has been throughout the series, it's entirely possible that mirage colloid missiles would work fine and they just haven't done it. All I'm saying is, maybe there's a better reason we haven't seen a mirage colloid missile yet -- such as, maybe it's impractical or impossible to build.

[kalvasflam]

I'm not trying to defend the Alliance in general here, I'm just saying putting mirage colloid on each individual nuclear missile might be impractical.  We can make assumptions that it's not that expensive or that we can just make the missile a little bigger and it'll all fit, but they're just assumptions.  I'm just kind of giving the show the benefit of the doubt here...but with as incompetent as the Alliance has been throughout the series, it's entirely possible that mirage colloid missiles would work fine and they just haven't done it.  All I'm saying is, maybe there's a better reason we haven't seen a mirage colloid missile yet -- such as, maybe it's impractical or impossible to build.

311157[/snapback]

Understand your point of view. I just think the problem is with the writers since they love to create all these fantastically insane weapons, but then have no idea of what the potentials are. Mind you, I think the whole problem is the poor writing, given how badly they're screwing up the story, I expect even less as far as reasonable usage of technical details. But hell, even with MC and its potentials, you can come up with a decent storyline that tailors to the stuff... nothing especially new here. This is part of the reason I try to not talk too much about technologies in Gundam, since you can find thousands of holes in usage.

If someone like me can think of easy ways to wipe out your enemies using something like MC, then imagine what someone in the military can dream up of using that same technology.

[Anubis]

One problem with the MC cloak is you have to sneak on the target. If you engage engines on full the exhaust tail will go past the edge of the cloak. Blitz prety much used thrusters and inertia to sneak up on artemis. The Girtly Lue snuck in close to the colony and waited.

When they got going, they fired their Gottfrieds, engaged the engines, then dropped the cloak. The engine tails were clearly visible past the edge of the cloak.

Wether or not the fire tail from a missle would be noticible visibly, maybe the energy would be picked up?

Either way, there's a very simple reason wht the EA doesn't just send some cloaked nuclear missles to wipe out the colonies: That would be the easy route, and subsequently there would be no show.

[azrael]

So for the mean time I'll go with the "PS on the sword cancelled out the PS armor" explanation.

Of course, if it did have PS armor, which it doesn't, it would change color... Kinetic weapons, explosives and bladed weapons used by grunts don't have the energy or punch and is countered or nullified by the armor because the force of the impact can be distributed over a larger surface area, nullifying the effect. Beam weapons have more energy behind them compared to kinetic weapons and are packed tighter, so they are harder to spread out over the surface area. Against bladed weapons, most use their blades to cut. The edge of the sword is a large surface area which is being used against a large surface area (consider my example of a sword striking plate mail versus a sword stabbing plate mail). The force is distributed, nullifying the attack.

When Shinn stabbed Freedom, he had lots of force and confined it to a tiny point, namely the point of the sword. Tiny surface area and lots of energy...almost makes it a beam weapon.

Concerning Mirage Colloid. There are other applications for it besides stealth.

All I'm saying is, maybe there's a better reason we haven't seen a mirage colloid missile yet -- such as, maybe it's impractical or impossible to build.

I would say impractical. The nukes are fairly small as is. MC uses too much energy to maintain it. Unless you want to strap lots of batteries on it, you're making a small missile suddenly much bigger. And what happens if the MC fails due to lack of power before it reaches it's goal? Then the enemy sees the nukes and the start countermeasures. Even if you strap a MS's nuke reactor, that reactor is still fairly large and what if you can't fit enough fuel for reaction on it (even though that amount is probably more than enough) It is possible, but is it feasible? As of this post, I don't see anything that says strapping MC on a nuke is feasible. Although, since we have 10 more episodes to go, that may change.

[Morpheus]

phase 39...

Wow, Strike Freedom is awesome, it totally outperformed the original freedom

20 mobile suits and 3 battleships.......

klik this link for spoiler:

strike freedom in action!

Edited July 16, 2005 by Morpheus

[Panon]

Plus, it happens to have a Newtype as it's pilot...

[Effect]

I heard Kira finally has the newtype flash while using Strike Freedom. Any truth to this?

Edit: Okay here we go. Came form the episode thread over at AnimeSuki

Edited July 16, 2005 by Effect

[kalvasflam]

I read the posts on the episode, and my initial reaction. I think we can reasonably throw out any well thought out discussion so far on capabilities and weapons. It really doesn't matter since this show is much more like the few episodes of G gundam I saw.

From the description above, it was like automatic newtype reactions without seed mode and all that junk. Somehow, all of this stuff is just so far overboard that it throws out any pretense of story telling. If Gilbert set up Junius 7 drop, well, at least I can kind of believe it as credible. But if he was that smart in the first place, why did he even bother with Athrun at all, manipulate him for a weapon? He must then believe in the super god gundam pilot crap..

[Legend of TSXer]

I liked ep 39! THe only thing I didnt like as much was the whole cute scenes with Kira and Lacus while a big battle is going on around the ship. I really dont mind their cute scenes but could Andy hold them off for all that time??

[Effect]

Like said before, SEED Destiny is a Super Robot show. Now while there is nothing wrong with a Super Robot show featuring Gundams. G Gundam is a good example but it didn't try to hide what it was. It ewas clear and open about that. SEED Destiny has tried to be sneaky and shady about it. Being a Super Robot show trying to pretend to be a "real robot" or "military robot" show. I think SEED Destiny and really a lot of the negative opinions and feelings about the show might have been different if Fukuda and the show itself had been open and truthfull about the shows nature and went at it full force instead of this halfass poo that we've been getting, being one thing but pretending to be something else and failing at both..

Edited July 16, 2005 by Effect

[HG Blows]

Wow, after watching SF in action, I take back all those things I said about it, I'm officially a fan.

[Effect]

I don't know. Checking out the raw, lets face it I needed to see Strike Freedom in action , the newtype ping for Kira just seems so right. Though when it's used is questionable though. It should have been done before the ZAFT ships opened fire on him, him sensing the danger, not before he let loose his bits and weapons on them.

[Bob_Coffee]

Strike freedom <3. totally awesome. kira newtype ping more totally awesome. I wonder if Kira will get creative ala amuro in CCA, and find some new uses for his funnels. It seemed atleast in the raw i saw, there was a little bit of an after image when freedom took out the two goufs come to think about it.:/ also Bartfield in Gaia, Pwnage, cant wait for him to tear it up bacow style during the obligatory bs Orb fight. Oh and Mwu is gaining a bit of his memorys back, Marrue remarks,at one point that he remembers the code to call the bridge for the comm system.

Even cooler, and proof phase shift colors can be altered or programed according to the pilots wishes(suprised luna isnt in a pinkish red impulse by now), is Kira changes strike rogue's colors back to og strike colors for his sortie in to space. no IWSP tho, which was the only disapointing part of the ep.

Not only that we get PLOT DEVLOPMENT. what plot you ask? a little bit on dillundial's "destiny plan" which has something to do with human evolution.

Sadly while ep 40 introduces the 48 k bling gundam erm Akatsuki, it seems from the preview to be nothing more than a soap box for cagali to cry in. they need to give it to neo/mwu hell even the beat up athrun could do a better job. Also rumor is Lacus is the one who brings Infinate Justice to athrun. Mabie we'll get to see our pink princess in battle? I Know damn well she can do a better job than cagali on the battlefield thats for sure.

[thedarkmarine]

I've been lurking around but is wondering, are there better pictures of the bling gundam? Is there any info on the bling gundam? And how does everyone seem to just know it's called the ataksuki?

Can't wait to see Kira pwn ass with his junk.

[phuqueue]

Sadly while ep 40 introduces the 48 k bling gundam erm Akatsuki, it seems from the preview to be nothing more than a soap box for cagali to cry in.

I don't think the preview really points to that. It showed her crying a little when she was out in the hangar or whatever, but the only shot we got of her in the cockpit looked like the launch sequence where she identifies herself and her MS. She always cried because she was upset to see Orb's ideal of not participating in foreign wars corrupted. If Orb itself is actually being attacked, I imagine she'll fight without a second thought. And I suspect she'll do just fine, since she's a main character and consistency doesn't really apply to them. She'll definitely cry next episode, but it'll only be until she gets in the MS and takes off.

[azrael]

Actually, it was 25 MS. S-Freedom was pretty good. Does it even need the METEOR unit if it can do all that damage all by itself. Fukada should throw in some John Woo-moves into S-Freedom...just for kicks.

Speaking of METEOR, they finally showed the use of those things on Eternal. They never got a chance to show those things as the turrets they are in GS. I found that to be a nice touch.

[Legend of TSXer]

Speaking of METEOR, they finally showed the use of those things on Eternal. They never got a chance to show those things as the turrets they are in GS. I found that to be a nice touch.

Yah I also really liked that they used them as turrets on Eternal. It did need more firepower. Maybe since the SF and IJ are advanced enough, they can also use the METEOR units on other Gundams/non-Gundam MS. We shall see tho.

[Druna Skass]

Even cooler, and proof phase shift colors can be altered or programed according to the pilots wishes(suprised luna isnt in a pinkish red impulse by now), is Kira changes strike rogue's colors back to og strike colors for his sortie in to space. no IWSP tho, which was the only disapointing part of the ep.

I wonder if that means Rouge is going to get handed down to La Fllaga. I'm going to be a bit irritated if that happens, the man just keeps getting short changed in the MS department.

[kalvasflam]

I wonder if that means Rouge is going to get handed down to La Fllaga. I'm going to be a bit irritated if that happens, the man just keeps getting short changed in the MS department.

311400[/snapback]

"I'm not Major Mwu, I'm Captain Neo.... that is until you bring me up on charges of war crimes and killing civilians, then I'm Major Mwu who was brainwashed by evil somebody or other."

Nice of them to have METEOR that can be used for dual purposes. By the way, were Kira doing killing shots on those ZAFT MS? I could swear some of those suit went Kabooooom completely.

At least, there might be some vague hope that Dullindal's evil plan isn't totally whacked and out of the blue. But they need to flush things out a lot more before the end. This show is just running so fast now that even quality episodes might be given shoddy treatment. But then, if Bandai is just trying to sell model kits, they're doing a good job, just look at all the rave reviews for super robot strike freedom. too bad they're sacrificing the story for this.

By the way, I do like the Kira batman treatment these days, secret hideouts for everything. secret hide out for AA, secret hide out for booster launch mechanism, waiting for the secret hide out for ultra secret brothel.

Edited July 17, 2005 by kalvasflam

[Panon]

I wonder if that means Rouge is going to get handed down to La Fllaga. I'm going to be a bit irritated if that happens, the man just keeps getting short changed in the MS department.

311400[/snapback]

Not a certainty at all, since Kira didn't exactly leave it in good condition.

[azrael]

Concerning the METEOR units:

http://www.gundamofficial.com/worlds/ce/me...ip_eternal.html

" In addition to a pair of METEOR units, which function as gun turrets while docked with the ship, "

As I said, nice to seem them animated as such finally.

I'm not Major Mwu, I'm Captain Neo.... "

Colonel. Taisa. You're demoting him even further.

Concerning Mu/Neo, no one really knows what's going to happen. Since we knew Strike Rouge would not be around after this episodes, most people figured he would take Andy's Murasame since obviously not Andy has his own Gaia.

Edited July 17, 2005 by azrael

[Bob_Coffee]

Question in reguards to strike freedom, are there any offical specs on the dragoon system it uses? im assuming its diffrent from the dragoon syestem legend employs as it was contructed by the cline faction?

[hevangel2]

Just watched ep 39, I glad to see Strike really show its age. Even with a super-ace like Kira, it still can't beat the new generation Zaku and Gouf CFs.

I think it is the first time in Gundam history the protagonist ride on his old Gundam after he got a new one.

[kalvasflam]

I'm not Major Mwu, I'm Captain Neo.... "

Colonel. Taisa. You're demoting him even further.

Concerning Mu/Neo, no one really knows what's going to happen. Since we knew Strike Rouge would not be around after this episodes, most people figured he would take Andy's Murasame since obviously not Andy has his own Gaia.

311423[/snapback]

How about LT? Even lower rank, more denability: "they forced me to do it, and threatened to whip me if I didn't, bottom line, I remember I'm Mwu now, NOT RESPONSIBLE." Besides, I was thinking navy captain rank, which is a higher rank.

Edited July 17, 2005 by kalvasflam

[Black Valkyrie]

FROM GUNTOA :

K-Fes 2005 photo report

A Gunpla photo report from Kodansha Super Character Festival 2005 can be seen at Choukantan Gunpla. Pics of the 1/100 Destiny Gundam, Strike Freedom, PG Strike Rouge, HG Gouf Ignited mass-produced, and Dom Trooper.

http://tandy.web.infoseek.co.jp/event/e02p00.htm

Note : Looking at Strike Freedom Golden hands reminds me of Anakin`s mechno hand.

Edited July 17, 2005 by Black Valkyrie

[Seven]

Wow, Strike Freedom has to be the most overpowered Gundam in all of Gundam history for any main character. Now when Kira opens up with all of the weapons on multiple targets in addition to the rail guns and two beam rifles, he can also fire off the torso cannon and all of his funnels. Crazy! And it's super fast!

The whole newtype ping and Kira screaming "ATTACK!!!" to the funnels had to be THE most satisfying moment in Seed Destiny for me, but that's coming from a guy that holds Amuro and the Nu Gundam as his favorite of all time. Lol, totally reminiscent of the part in CCA where Gyunei uses his funnels to shoot down the nuclear missiles.

I can't wait for the rematch between Kira and Shinn. It would be like watching a dream match of the F91 (Destiny) versus the Nu Gundam (Strike Freedom), where Shinn would use Destiny's super speed and Kira would go to the funnels.

Edited July 17, 2005 by Seven

[slideshot]

So I'm kind of curious about how well does S. Freedom work on earth, where he can't use the DRAGOON system. Is he just as powerful?

If you think it's powerful now, just wait until he goes into seed mode.

[Legend of TSXer]

Is there any Official info on SF use of Coloids other than for the DRAGOON system. Like how Destiny uses it for his Wings and the "Matrix" like moves? When SF first ocmes out he has lil red dots coming out from behind him and when he launched the DRAGOON system the second time he had blueish wings but smaller than Destiny's wings. Anyone else notice? Looks kool!

[azrael]

S-Freedom doesn't use any type of Colloid system besides the DRAGOON. The red dots are just hot debris/particles near the engine exhaust. The same effect was used on the original Freedom.

No one can answer that WoL effect yet unfortunately.

[Atheonyirh]

So I'm kind of curious about how well does S. Freedom work on earth, where he can't use the DRAGOON system.  Is he just as powerful? 

If you think it's powerful now, just wait until he goes into seed mode.

311510[/snapback]

It's likely that the DRAGOON system won't function on Earth (although there's no guarantee they can't use small thrustors to hover or something..) but it's quite likely the DRAGOON weapons themselves can be by directing the barrels in the right directions, like Legend does. Maybe the tips of the funnels can tilt to bring them around? That'd definitely make up for the loss of the Balenas..

I also wish to state that Strike Freedom is sex in a can. A sexy can. I hope the MSiA looks that sexy, and hopefully the undoubtedly coming MG model will too.

[Magnus]

Holy God, I swear.....Seed Destiny is like a 30 minute orgasm. Seeing Andy out in the awesome Gaia recolor, seeing the Meteor being used as part of Eternal's armament, seeing Kira piloting Strike (and seeing it getting totalled due to its outdated tech) was just fantastic!

And then of course there's the Strike-Freedom. If I could have its babies, I would. What an amazing MS, and an even better introduction! I am getting insanely crazy for Shinn vs. Kira round two! While yeah, there seems to be a lot of crying Cagalli in the next ep, it at least introduces a cool new MS, which is always a good thing in my books.

Dammit, I can't believe there are only 10 more eps of this show! boooooo