Official Gundam Seed Destiny Thread

[phuqueue]

We don't really know whose evil in this series yet but I have my cash on Gill, Rey & Shinn so their fates should be pretty much sealed.

I definitely wouldn't say Shin is evil. He's misguided and incredibly self-righteous, which is a pretty nasty combination, but he's not evil. He may have been an idiot about it, but he cared about Stellar. He seems to fully support Dullindal's plan to wipe out LOGOS (at least, he was smiling approvingly throughout the speech), who he understands to be the ultimate source of all the warfare and violence. He's definitely an a-hole, but evil he is not. Doesn't mean he won't still become a villain, but villains don't have to be evil. He could end up like G Gundam's Master Asia, playing for the wrong team because he erroneously believes that it's the right thing to do.

Rey is something of a mystery. At this point, he could either be evil himself, or he could just be blindly loyal to Dullindal, with whom we've already seen he has a very close relationship. He's also shown some loyalty to Shin, though; he's stuck his neck out for him on a number of occasions now, most notably when he helped Shin return Stellar to the Alliance. He could either be a really good person who's intensely loyal to his friends and is being manipulated by Dullindal, or he could be evil as well and working with Dullindal to pull Shin to their side.

This of course all assumes that Dullindal is evil. The immediate assumption from day one has been that he's got something up his sleeve. The show hasn't yet confirmed that he's evil, though. That's still very much up in the air. I would be surprised if it turns out to be the case, but there's still a chance he's a genuinely good person.

[kalvasflam]

As for combat vets, Ramius is a naval officer, and Andy was more of a pilot.  Their jobs in life wasn't close quarter combat...  so, they are presumably not trained to do this type of work, but had some limited experience due to their careers.

You seem to forget these people are wanted I don't think ZAFT and the Alliance looks kindly on desertion, especialy since they jacked each side's most advanced ship at the time. I'm sure they learned a few survival tricks.

survival tricks? Let me toss you into the middle of a war zone and see how well you learn survival tricks on your own. They hijacked ships, sure, but after two years of nothing happening, people all of a sudden decide to go after them? Besides, you have to remember, there was no reason for them to keep up their guard, there hasn't been anyone after them for a long time... When you come down to it, those commandos were third stringers at best. They got beat by a cripple and a girl....

Just a thought, and we know it isn't true, but what if Kira is actually DEAD. Now, that would be something... certainly enough to get the storyline interesting again. No more Kira for the rest of the series. Ah well, it would be too much to hope for.

Edited June 12, 2005 by kalvasflam

[azrael]

I definitely wouldn't say Shin is evil. He's misguided and incredibly self-righteous, which is a pretty nasty combination, but he's not evil. He may have been an idiot about it, but he cared about Stellar.

And you wonder why I call him Anakin...There is still good in him, but he's been manipulated by Dullindal and Rey. Twisted by the Dark side, young Shinn has been. In the end, he'll redeem himself. But that should be after his ass-whoopin. Obi-Wan...I mean Athrun, should cut of his legs and arms just to make him think. And Destiny doesn't use a core-block system so Shinn can't scream at Meyrin for more parts.

Old seed crew ass handed to them? You mean everyone AA and Athrun right?...AA was trying ot leave the combat area (like always mind you) but had never had a ship like the Minerva on its tail.

The old crew has had their ass handed to them many times, so this wouldn't have been the first. Outside Orb, At Alaska...By Dominion... They were running so they didn't care who was in front of them. Heck, Neumann (Archangel's helmsman) just rolled and went around Minerva. Minerva wasn't expecting that...

Shin tends to ignore or forget about other things at the present time and thinks selfishly. Yes his parents died and yes Stellar died. But he does not see things from a broad point of view (so it seems) and quickly puts the blame on someone or something else, and not himself when it was somewhat his fault too. Shin is in Denial and figths with a rage. He is really the most dangerous pilot to me now. Kind of the way a certain apprentice became the most dangerous person under his master. Shin shouldent really die but learn form his mistakes and realize not everything is reallt the way he thinks it is. But I doubt he will ever realize that, and thats why I believe he should DIE!

Personally, I don't think Shinn needs to die. But a serious ass-whoopin, now we're talkin. As Chris Rock would say, "Ain't no one above an ass-whoopin." It seems as if the writers are setting him up to fall from grace hard. And I'll be there to laugh. Shinn only looks at things that affect him. He doesn't see the bigger picture. Athrun tried to teach him that, but Shinn obviously didn't listen.

Also, someone on AnimeSuki's boards notice the fact that Shinn has never been disiplined. Someone has always been there to justify him. The 1 time Shinn was disiplined was by Athrun and that was a slap on the wrist. Beyond that, nothing. That feeds his arrogant behavior. If everytime, someone says your right, imagine what would happen to your ego. That's Shinn's problem. No one has ever said he was wrong. When finally you do wrong, it doesn't hit you. Shinn never learned from his mistakes because no one was ever there to tell him he made a mistake. All the reinforcement Shinn has had has been positive. He's never had disipline or any negative reinforcement. And that should be his undoing. When he makes a mistake, he needs to have some reinforcement to back up the idea he made a mistake. And until that happens, he will keep acting like a jerk.

[Effect]

Lately I've been wondering if Shinn was real and the events in his life actually took place could the death of his parents really be to blame for his actions. I'm actually more incline to be honest to think that he was always like this even when his parents were alive. I got the feeling that his sister was spoiled and always got her way. Forcing the family to stop to get a stupid and easily replaceable cell phone in the middle of a dangerous area. Makes me wonder how Shinn and his sister were actually disciplined growing up or if they ever were. It certainly lacked it in that scene. So maybe's Shinn attitude isn't a a product of losing his family but maybe this is how he has always been and no matter of talking, punishment, or defeat is going to change him. That's at least the feeling I've been getting lately.

I'm still deciding if I'm going to check out 34. I didn't bother with the raw and I'm far more interested in Murrue and Talia actually seeing each other on screen and seeing the Archangel roll again. Seriously, they need to get Archangel's ship pilot, Arnold Neumann, into a mobile suit. If he can pilot a battle ship the way he does, just imagine what he could do in a mobile suit, something that is smaller. Just forgo the heavy armor and just jack the suit with trusters everywhere and let him go to town.

Question, since when can beam shots actually bounce off of shields? From the sounds of it, it also didn't appear to be a fair one on one fight between Kira and Freedom either. First Kira is fighting off ZAFT mobile suits protecting the AA as it makes it's escape, forced to go SEED due to the numbers. Then in comes the Minerva and the Impulse Gundam. Impluse gets support by getting new addons.

Does the Impulse get a power boost ever time it gets a new part in middle battle?

It sounds like Shinn was actually smart to use parts of his Gundam but if he had a complete Gundam like everyone else he won't be able to pull that poo and then maybe he'll have to smarter about his fight. As it stands, this doesn't seem to compare to Athrun vs. Kira where they were actually taking apart each others suits. None of that cheap detacting body parts.

Looking forward to episode 35 though to see Lacus's new Dom mobile suits. Also what's keeping me watching is the preview about Logos turning around the battle on ZAFT. If they take the upper hand that's going to be great to see. Good or bad, as long as ZAFT finally starts losing I'm for the side fighting them. It's been long overdue.

[azrael]

  Lately I've been wondering if Shinn was real and the events in his life actually took place could the death of his parents really be to blame for his actions. I'm actually more incline to be honest to think that he was always like this even when his parents were alive. I got the feeling that his sister was spoiled and always got her way. Forcing the family to stop to get a stupid and easily replaceable cell phone in the middle of a dangerous area. Makes me wonder how Shinn and his sister were actually disciplined growing up or if they ever were.

We may never know. Shinn needs to be disciplined. He needs to be put into a situation where he pays for his actions. Where no one will support him or justify his actions. Death would be the easy way. He needs a Camille-style punishment. Kinda like a vegtable. A suitable punishment, IMO, would be he lives but is forever locked in a state where he fears that everything he does is the wrong thing. Eternal guilt.

One thing I noticed, Kira recalled Shinn's presence during fight. He felt it was the same persona as the one he met at the ORB memorial. More Newtype stuff.

Seriously, they need to get Archangel's ship pilot, Arnold Neumann, into a mobile suit. If he can pilot a battle ship the way he does, just imagine what he could do in a mobile suit, something that is smaller.

Well, he rolled about 90 degrees but he did it really quick and it was a hard roll. It was just funny because Minerva's crew just stared as they passed right by them.

ZAFT tried to trap AA, but that failed.

Question, since when can beam shots actually bounce off of shields?

When they serve the plot. Impulse's shield uses a system similar to Forbidden's "Geschmeidig Panzer" when it is expanded.

From the sounds of it, it also didn't appear to be a fair one on one fight between Kira and Freedom either. First Kira is fighting off ZAFT mobile suits protecting the AA as it makes it's escape, forced to go SEED due to the numbers. Then in comes the Minerva and the Impulse Gundam. Impluse gets support by getting new addons.

The Shinn fanboys would eat you alive. Tactically, Impulse did have the advantage. The funny thing is, It wasn't Shinn who came up with the idea to use Kira's no-kill policy against him. Rey was the one who told Shinn about it.

Does the Impulse get a power boost ever time it gets a new part in middle battle?

Maybe... It probably does have a slight battery-backup to power the additional systems.

It sounds like Shinn was actually smart to use parts of his Gundam but if he had a complete Gundam like everyone else he won't be able to pull that poo and then maybe he'll have to smarter about his fight. As it stands, this doesn't seem to compare to Athrun vs. Kira where they were actually taking apart each others suits. None of that cheap detacting body parts.

If it works, use it. It may be cheap but that's what Impulse can do so why not? You're right, this fight wasn't like Strike vs. Aegis. Kira and Athrun went head-in back then. Shinn had a plan so he had the edge. But Shinn won't have that advantage next time. Destiny doesn't use the core-block system. So he can't scream at Meyrin. But hey, we got to get rid of Freedom to make way for Strike Freedom so like I said, Shinn will get his ass-whoopin.

[ArchVile]

But Strike Freedom is ungly . I still want to know how Kira survives from that explosion.

And how exactly could Shinn's Anti-ship sword's non beam tip penetrate Freedom's PS armor?

Edited June 12, 2005 by ArchVile

[F360°]

well considing that explosion wasn't from Freedom but from the after effect blast of Minvera's "T" something and that Freedom still had PS armor on at the time, it's not really a big surprise that he will be able to survive that. A Mobile Suit is one of the safest places in the world. Freedom's whole cockpit area was still intact at the time of the incomming after effect blast so Kira should be well protected.

Surviving this is more believeable than the one he had with Athrun in his Strike.

Edited June 12, 2005 by F360°

[hevangel2]

Wow... just watched ep 34. I must say Freedom vs Impluse is the best Gundam vs Gundam fight I have seen. (Other than 0083, is there any other Gundam vs Gundam fight, BTW?) I think Kira is really stupid, he should have known Shin is taking advantage of his no-kill policy. If he realise the trick Shin is playing and adapt his strategy after his first several misses and aim for the cockpit instead, Shin is long dead.

He could have kill Shin the first time he chop up Impulse. Actually, Kira changed his no-kill policy later on, as we can see Kira is aiming for the cockpit in the 2nd time. Shin used cheap tricks to dodge the slice by seperating the torse of Impulse. If Kira havn't change his mind and aim for the head as usual, then the seperation of Impulse will put the core fighter right on the path of Kira's light saber.

I don't think Kira is dead, altought Shin had a direct hit in the tummy, but the cockpit of Freedom is located in the chest, so Kira could still be ok. I also don't think the blast at the end is from the explosion of Freedom's nuclear reactor. How can Impulse survive a nuclear blast at ground zero?

Somehow I don't recall see Kira going Seed in the eposide, the normal cut scene is not played.

[Effect]

No a Gundam is one of the safest places to be in the world, a mobile suit that isn't a Gundam in SEED seems to be death trap that along with ground tanks.

Well Kira doesn't really have a "no kill policy". He just doesn't kill needlessly it seems. He isn't about killing someone or destoryign something if the situation calls for it. After all he knows first hand what it's like to losing someone close to him in battles(Tolle and Flay) and what it's like to end the life of people. Yet at the same time he doesn't let death get to him anymore. Noticed how he saw Heine's mobile suit get destoryed and didn't so much as blinked at it. It was almost like an "oh well" situation for him.

I think Flay getting killed really might have hit him harder then we are lead to believe. If her talk to him in the end had actually reached him the way Lalah talked to Amuro, he might actually be different but no he didn't hear or see her.

Yet Shin and Stellar can have a newtype moment themselves without any signs of being newtypes, not even the smallest bit of sensing someone cause not long before that Shinn was about to kill her by going straight for the cockpit. I want to see that explained away cause it looked like they both were in a trance and then got woken up from it. So I don't think it can simply be said that is what they were feeling at the moment or wanted to do. It looked like they were actually doing it, at least that's how I feel it was presented.

Edited June 12, 2005 by Effect

[Druna Skass]

survival tricks? Let me toss you into the middle of a war zone and see how well you learn survival tricks on your own. They hijacked ships, sure, but after two years of nothing happening, people all of a sudden decide to go after them? Besides, you have to remember, there was no reason for them to keep up their guard, there hasn't been anyone after them for a long time... When you come down to it, those commandos were third stringers at best. They got beat by a cripple and a girl....

What does putting me in a warzone have to do with anything?

Just because there hasn't been anyone after them doesn't mean they didn't take precautions. You don't survive very long as a fugetive by being careless. Especialy if one of the groups that has you on a wanted list happens to control 5 of the seven continents.

[Druna Skass]

well considing that explosion wasn't from Freedom but from the blast of Minvera's "T" something and that Freedom still had PS armor on at the time, it's not really a big surprise that he will be able to survive that. A Mobile Suit is one of the safest places in the world. Freedom's whole cockpit area was still intact at the time of the incomming blast so Kira should be well protected.

Surviving this is more believeable than the one he had with Athrun in his Strike.

But Phase-Shift doesn't do jack against beam weapons, only anti-beam coatings and Laminated Armor.

[F360°]

what are you talking about? I don't remember talking about beam weapons at all. Did you reply to the wrong post? I was talkng about the after effect blast from Minvera's "Tannhäuser" positron beam cannon.

[Druna Skass]

what are you talking about? I don't remember talking about beam weapons at all. Did you reply to the wrong post? I was talkng about the after effect blast from Minvera's "Tannhäuser" positron beam cannon.

Oh the after affect, I thought you meant the blast itself. I hadn't seen that episode yet and you made it sound like in your post that Phase-Shift would have saved the Freedom from a positron cannon shot.

[azrael]

Now that I've slept on it...Someone needs to tell the Minerva crew that a positron gun isn't the first resort weapon. It's an anti-matter weapon. Water = matter. What happens when the 2 come in contact...*bangs head on table*

Now to some spoilers (Same spoilers, from Bon Bon magazine, pay attention to ep. 38):

PHASE-35 "Chaos Ahead" (6/18)

Shinn has defeated the Archangel and Freedom.

Thinking about Kira & co., Athrun is in conflict...

PHASE-36 "Athrun Deserts" (6/25)

ZAFT steadily drives the EA into a wall.

On Dullindal's directives, they set out for the EA's command headquarters.

PHASE-37 "The Darkness of Thunder" (7/2)

Feelings of discomfort at Dullindal's speech causes Athrun to escape from ZAFT. A chase follows...

PHASE-38 "A New Flag" (7/9)

A fierce battle at the EA headquarters, Boons Base!

The EA's new weapons shakens ZAFT's power.

Also, some one on Anime-on-DVD's forums posted something about Dullindal. Take a look (Rumor-mill, possible spoilers ahead):

Chairman's goal is to return humanity to its original form (Naturals). In other words, erase all Coordinators and control population of Naturals (Global Environmental Reset Plan). Though the chairman took pride in the Coordinators as humanity's evolutionary system several years ago, he begins to have doubt in the existence of Coordinators in encounter and separation with Rey, and raising him with Talia.

If this true, then this is quite bizarre yet interesting.

[Druna Skass]

What the hell, now Gilbert sounds almost like Gendo Ikari...

[kalvasflam]

survival tricks?  Let me toss you into the middle of a war zone and see how well you learn survival tricks on your own.  They hijacked ships, sure, but after two years of nothing happening, people all of a sudden decide to go after them?  Besides, you have to remember, there was no reason for them to keep up their guard, there hasn't been anyone after them for a long time...  When you come down to it, those commandos were third stringers at best.  They got beat by a cripple and a girl....

What does putting me in a warzone have to do with anything?

Just because there hasn't been anyone after them doesn't mean they didn't take precautions. You don't survive very long as a fugetive by being careless. Especialy if one of the groups that has you on a wanted list happens to control 5 of the seven continents.

exactly what it sounded like. If you don't have a lot of the training, then you aren't likely to be able to learn on the fly. While both had some minor experience playing against commando style raids, they aren't trained to do so as a part of their regular careers.

Taking precautions against assassins is one thing, trained to fight off professional commandoes who knows where you live is quite another. You can take precaution against every day robbery, but if a professional thief comes after you, you don't have a chance.

Ok, now, onto another subject... I see a lot of people making excuses for why Kira lost, but so what, the end result was he lost. It's like Buster Douglas and Mike Tyson, sure, Buster Douglas is a nobody, but guess what, in the record books, it shows he won just that once against Tyson. And it was a big deal for him.

Kira had a no kill policy, Shinn trained to fight Kira, Shinn had help, Shinn had multiple replacement parts available... blah blah blah... all of those are just excuses. The bottom line is Kira LOST.... Who the hell in the world wants a fair fight anyway? Does anyone ever think it's unfair that Kira has the most powerful MS around, I don't hear anyone complain about grunt pilot losing to him when he blasts them from a distance with an overpowered MS. All of it sounds like rationalization for their favorite character on why he lost.

By the way, does anyone else think the story is taking a rather abrupt turn? There was no build up to attacking the AA at all, it just happened out of the blue. Kinda weird for story development.

Edited June 12, 2005 by kalvasflam

[F360°]

what are you talking about?  I don't remember talking about beam weapons at all.  Did you reply to the wrong post?  I was talkng about the after effect blast from Minvera's "Tannhäuser" positron beam cannon.

Oh the after affect, I thought you meant the blast itself. I hadn't seen that episode yet and you made it sound like in your post that Phase-Shift would have saved the Freedom from a positron cannon shot.

Yeah,, my bad,, I thought most have already seent he ep, so I just placed blast instead,, I can understand the confusion now,, I'll go and reword it.

Edited June 12, 2005 by F360°

[Effect]

Interesting news. While I don't think it's a bad idea to have humanity be whole again, in fact I think all the characters would welcome it if only for it to do away with the natural vs. coordiantor problem. How things are going about it on the other hand isn't the right away. While making his intentions good he's still a bad guy.

Like how Haman and Sicisrio(sp?) wanted humans to be united but ruled by them and newtypes.

Edit: Hmm just checked out episode 34. You know what that wasn't even really a fight. It was simply a running escape. It didnt' even look like Kira was even bothering to fight Shin just get away the entire time to join up with the Archangel so they could escape.

Since seeing about it I don't feel bad about the fight at all either. It was really one sided. Shinn cared so much about the fight but to Kira it didn't even seem to matter but seemed more of an annoyance then anything since it wasn't important to him. AA getting away was. He appeared more concern with getting away. When Shinn stabbed him witht he sword I don't think Kira was shocked from the Minerva firing at the AA. Sure he was worried but it seems the only reason he even got hit was because he slowed down eough cause he was about to dive into the water. Maybe he can't go into the war at full force but has to go down slowly or risk damaging the mobile suit and since it was damaged already he had to be even more careful. That's why he looked surprised I think cause clearly he wasn't a threat anymore, about to enter the water and didn't expect Shinn to go all insane on him.. I think that even if Kira did manage to get intot he water, Shinn would have been crazy enough to actually dive in after him.

So Kira lossing isn't something that is bothering me at all surprisingly. What annoys me the most is the beam shot bouncing off the shield. WTF!?

Actually the fight between the two of them was setup in such a way that it didn't really seem to matter. What was more important at that time was the interaction between the Minerva and Archangel I believe. That's where the real focus of the later half of the episode was focused on.,

Edited June 12, 2005 by Effect

[Druna Skass]

exactly what it sounded like. If you don't have a lot of the training, then you aren't likely to be able to learn on the fly. While both had some minor experience playing against commando style raids, they aren't trained to do so as a part of their regular careers.

Taking precautions against assassins is one thing, trained to fight off professional commandoes who knows where you live is quite another. You can take precaution against every day robbery, but if a professional thief comes after you, you don't have a chance.

So you're telling me commandos wouldn't be the likely pick to send to get rid of these two? So if you were on a super-power's wanted/hit list you wouldn't take precations against commandos then?

[Fort Max]

That was an amazing episode, Shinn may have beaten Kira but he really had to give it every ounce of his skill and stamina just to wear him down.

I do like how he used the Sword flyer as a mid air wepaons rack.

I'm so looking forward to seeing those new Doms but I bet we won;t actualy see any action from them for at least another couple of weeks.

[kalvasflam]

exactly what it sounded like.  If you don't have a lot of the training, then you aren't likely to be able to learn on the fly.  While both had some minor experience playing against commando style raids, they aren't trained to do so as a part of their regular careers.

Taking precautions against assassins is one thing, trained to fight off professional commandoes who knows where you live is quite another.  You can take precaution against every day robbery, but if a professional thief comes after you, you don't have a chance.

So you're telling me commandos wouldn't be the likely pick to send to get rid of these two? So if you were on a super-power's wanted/hit list you wouldn't take precations against commandos then?

No, the point is, you can know that someone is coming for you and it still wouldn't make one damn bit of difference if the opposition was good and if you acted stupidly like having a predictable schedule and location. Let's say you're wanted by the U.S. government dead or alive. They'll send Delta force after you, would you continue to live in your cushy apartment say in the middle of Libya, and go to your 9 to 5 daily job in some factory? I don't think so. That's a sure way to end up dead. In case you don't realize it, the best way to avoid becoming a target from say a super power is to stay mobile and keep from staying at a place long enough to become a target. (for advice on this, consult Osama and company)

Having a routine schedule which can be nailed down like a coffin is a way you end up dying. What I'm saying here is that there have been no precaution against a raid at all. Because if ZAFT or EA is as dangerous as you claim and they're hunting for you, you wouldn't have a regular job where you showed up 9 to 5. Their life style immediately shows you what type of danger they actually think of themselves in.

This of course turns around and point to the fact that the ZAFT commandos they sent SUCKED. Fixed target, element of surprise, minimal opposition, and they still screw it up. That's what the whole thread was about. You brought up the two combat vet thing that tipped the balance? My response is, so what? The only reason the commandos failed at all was because they were terrible at their job.

And no, if I wanted to get rid of those two in a fixed house where I know their schedule everyday, I wouldn't send in commandos, I would just send in a dozen cruise missiles. But of course, the commando had a stealth job, and they botched it.

Edited June 12, 2005 by kalvasflam

[kalvasflam]

Interesting news. While I don't think it's a bad idea to have humanity be whole again, in fact I think all the characters would welcome it if only for it to do away with the natural vs. coordiantor problem. How things are going about it on the other hand isn't the right away. While making his intentions good he's still a bad guy.

Like how Haman and Sicisrio(sp?) wanted humans to be united but ruled by them and newtypes.

Edit: Hmm just checked out episode 34. You know what that wasn't even really a fight. It was simply a running escape. It didnt' even look like Kira was even bothering to fight Shin just get away the entire time to join up with the Archangel so they could escape.

Since seeing about it I don't feel bad about the fight at all either. It was really one sided. Shinn cared so much about the fight but to Kira it didn't even seem to matter but seemed more of an annoyance then anything since it wasn't important to him. AA getting away was. He appeared more concern with getting away. When Shinn stabbed him witht he sword I don't think Kira was shocked from the Minerva firing at the AA. Sure he was worried but it seems the only reason he even got hit was because he slowed down eough cause he was about to dive into the water. Maybe he can't go into the war at full force but has to go down slowly or risk damaging the mobile suit and since it was damaged already he had to be even more careful. That's why he looked surprised I think cause clearly he wasn't a threat anymore, about to enter the water and didn't expect Shinn to go all insane on him.. I think that even if Kira did manage to get intot he water, Shinn would have been crazy enough to actually dive in after him.

So Kira lossing isn't something that is bothering me at all surprisingly. What annoys me the most is the beam shot bouncing off the shield. WTF!?

Actually the fight between the two of them was setup in such a way that it didn't really seem to matter. What was more important at that time was the interaction between the Minerva and Archangel I believe. That's where the real focus of the later half of the episode was focused on.,

Ever see the movie Maverick, the one with Mel Gibson, and Jodie Foster? There was this one scene earlier on where Gibson's character is playing poker with a bunch of people, and he was taking their money;

One of the losers said: "I don't think that hand should count."

Mel Gibson: "oh why is that? You have any logical reason why that hand shouldn't count?"

Loser: "Cause my mind, it wasn't on the game."

The excuses for why Kira lost all sound like that exactly. His mind wasn't on fighting Shinn, Shinn trained against him specifically, Shinn had multiple spare parts, kira had a no kill policy.... All of that sounds like the excuse of a loser that turned around and said: "that loss shouldn't count cause my mind wasn't on the game."

[Druna Skass]

exactly what it sounded like.  If you don't have a lot of the training, then you aren't likely to be able to learn on the fly.  While both had some minor experience playing against commando style raids, they aren't trained to do so as a part of their regular careers.

Taking precautions against assassins is one thing, trained to fight off professional commandoes who knows where you live is quite another.  You can take precaution against every day robbery, but if a professional thief comes after you, you don't have a chance.

So you're telling me commandos wouldn't be the likely pick to send to get rid of these two? So if you were on a super-power's wanted/hit list you wouldn't take precations against commandos then?

No, the point is, you can know that someone is coming for you and it still wouldn't make one damn bit of difference if the opposition was good and if you acted stupidly like having a predictable schedule and location. Let's say you're wanted by the U.S. government dead or alive. They'll send Delta force after you, would you continue to live in your cushy apartment say in the middle of Libya, and go to your 9 to 5 daily job in some factory? I don't think so. That's a sure way to end up dead. In case you don't realize it, the best way to avoid becoming a target from say a super power is to stay mobile and keep from staying at a place long enough to become a target. (for advice on this, consult Osama and company)

Having a routine schedule which can be nailed down like a coffin is a way you end up dying. What I'm saying here is that there have been no precaution against a raid at all. Because if ZAFT or EA is as dangerous as you claim and they're hunting for you, you wouldn't have a regular job where you showed up 9 to 5. Their life style immediately shows you what type of danger they actually think of themselves in.

This of course turns around and point to the fact that the ZAFT commandos they sent SUCKED. Fixed target, element of surprise, minimal opposition, and they still screw it up. That's what the whole thread was about. You brought up the two combat vet thing that tipped the balance? My response is, so what? The only reason the commandos failed at all was because they were terrible at their job.

And no, if I wanted to get rid of those two in a fixed house where I know their schedule everyday, I wouldn't send in commandos, I would just send in a dozen cruise missiles. But of course, the commando had a stealth job, and they botched it.

Or you could maintain a low profile in a nation that has agreed to harbor and hide you.

You brought up the whole thing about them not being able to deal with them because it wasn't in their job description, and my response was that you'd think they'd be carless enough to not learn how to fight in buildings and learn how commandos operate all because one is a ship captain and the other was a pilot. Like I said these people are fugetives as in someone wants them dead.

As for moving around where would they go, to North America a territory under Atlantic Federation control? Or how about Australia, under ZAFT control? And it isn't like Andy isn't well known within ZAFT. Orb is the only place where people aren't after them.

You know what screw it, I'm repeating myself just like in the last argument...

[Legend of TSXer]

You know what screw it, I'm repeating myself just like in the last argument...

Yah....thatll happen here....

Anyways I saw the ep again and I thought how the beam could be bounced off the shield. Kinda made sense. As Azreal said a few posts back, the Impulse's shield uses something similar to the "Geschmeidig Panzer" on Forbiden and also that almost all the time someone uses their shield to block an attack, it hits the shield directly and not on an angle. So with the anti-beam coating shields have and the "Geschmeidig Panzer" like design, the beam could easily bend or be reflected at another angle. Good thing Shin could barely aim with it.

Old seed crew ass handed to them? You mean everyone AA and Athrun right?...AA was trying ot leave the combat area (like always mind you) but had never had a ship like the Minerva on its tail.

The old crew has had their ass handed to them many times, so this wouldn't have been the first. Outside Orb, At Alaska...By Dominion... They were running so they didn't care who was in front of them. Heck, Neumann (Archangel's helmsman) just rolled and went around Minerva. Minerva wasn't expecting that...

Yah that was kinda what I was trying to say but I was thinking more of my Shin part of my post. But still it appears from what we saw before the Tanhauser that the AA was barely damaged, atleast in comparison to the Alaska and Entering Orb battles.

[Shade]

So, finally watched the episode. Shinn does an excellent job of fighting here, making great use of Impulse's modular design, my favorite being when he splits Impulse in two to dodge Kira's strike.

Of course, when they rematch in Destiny vs. Strike Freedom, he won't have that gimmick, so he'd better bone up on his pure skills. Yeah, I'm hoping for Kira vs. Shinn in the finals. Athrun hasn't done anything useful all season, so I'm not expecting anything from him later. Maybe he can take out Lunamaria (while screaming her name).

Oh, when Chaos explodes, I don't actually remember seeing Sting's death scene. Because without one, he's bound to come back, probably in Destroy Mk II. Maybe he'll be effective if and when he returns.

[Anubis]

I was very happy with the episode. Shinn and Rey studied and figured out the exact strategy necessary to take on Freedom even with the performance gap the Impulse had. The creative module usage was the only way to win that fight, along with taking advantage of Kira's avoiding the cockpit. With Gundams that actually on par with each other it would be more of a stand up fight. This time Kira grossly underestimated Shinn and now paid the price for it. "You can't always have your way" finally came to pass, and I am happy. Kira was king of the hill for too long, and now the playing field will level out more.

Edited June 13, 2005 by Anubis

[wolfx]

I wonder if Kira could've won if he weighed against going against his no-kill code vs the fact that if he lost here, the archangel might not survive its mission. Everyone is praising the modular design of impulse...but makes me wonder, if they had enough spare parts for impulse on the minerva, why not just get another core splendour and make a 2nd unit for one of their idling aces? Shinn just jettisoned and changed everything (including the force pack) again when he got totalled once. Quite a waste IMHO. But hey...that's a good way to work in a gimmick i think. Ramming into the freedom with machine guns blazing...i never expected that.

Ok, Kira survived a "nuke" in the 1st Season, and now he's going to survive a real NUKE as well as a pierce into the cockpit of the Freedom. I wonder how they are going to bring him back now. Oh wait...the Freedom's cockpit is more in the chest rather than the torso...so there's hope for him after all.

As for Sting, his cockpit was split into half ala Heine as well....don't know how he's gonna come back.

[kalvasflam]

I was very happy with the episode. Shinn and Rey studied and figured out the exact strategy necessary to take on Freedom even with the performance gap the Impulse had. The creative module usage was the only way to win that fight, along with taking advantage of Kira's avoiding the cockpit. With Gundams that actually on par with each other it would be more of a stand up fight. This time Kira grossly underestimated Shinn and now paid the price for it. "You can't always have your way" finally came to pass, and I am happy. Kira was king of the hill for too long, and now the playing field will level out more.

This was true for most of the fight. Except remember when Shinn had to seperate the modules to avoid the beam saber? I thought at that point Kira was aiming for the chest section. Now, may be Kira was aiming for the legs, but seeing as how there are no weapons on the legs, and the engines were on the back, I don't see what that might have accomplished. Unlike the Duel, Impulse can fly on its own.

May be Kira finally got desparate enough to have to think about dealing a death blow.

[Fort Max]

Since most people here reckon that explosion was Minervas cannon hitting the water rather then Freedom actually detonating then maybe the bext epsiode will open with a cool scene of Kira ripping that sword from Freedoms chest.

[Anubis]

Since most people here reckon that explosion was Minervas cannon hitting the water rather then Freedom actually detonating then maybe the bext epsiode will open with a cool scene of Kira ripping that sword from Freedoms chest. 

Except for the fact they showed Freedom's shattered remains before Shinn. I'm really interested to see how Kira survived this one. Him and Mwu are holding a survival competition: who can survive the biggest blast in one piece. I do want to see where the explosion came from. I hate it when they do that.

I once again show the pic from 2 pages back.

Edited June 13, 2005 by Anubis

[Anubis]

Apparrently Destiny's Dub is underway:

From Gunota

    DESTINY dub currently underway

Or so says an e-mail we received earlier today from 'Niko':

"I was just talking to a friend about the 'Men of Gundam' panel I attended at Anime North a few weeks ago (Matt Hill, Sam Vincent, Trevor Devall, and Scott McNiel). She's a big Gundam fan, and was very excited when I mentioned that the actors had started work on dubbing GS Destiny.

She was surprised she hadn't seen this mentioned on any Gundam sites, and suggested I mention it to you.

At the time of the convention, dubbing had *just* started. One of the actors (I think it was Matt Hill) had been in the studio the previous week, and the others were scheduled to go in the week after. Not much more was said, except Trevor D. mentioned that he would be playing the 'Mu LaFlaga'-like character. (I'm not a Gundam person, so I don't know who that would be. )

Sorry to bother you if this is old or silly news. I'm taking my friend's word for it that it will be of interest. "  ¶ 11:28 PM

[Druna Skass]

There aren't a lot of pieces in that scene though, not enough for a whole suit anyway, so there's still a chance we could see that scene. Maybe the hole the anti-ship sword made is where they install that cannon.

I really doubt that blast was nuclear, there's no way Impulse could survive a nuclear blast at ground zero.

[phuqueue]

Since most people here reckon that explosion was Minervas cannon hitting the water rather then Freedom actually detonating then maybe the bext epsiode will open with a cool scene of Kira ripping that sword from Freedoms chest. 

Except for the fact they showed Freedom's shattered remains before Shinn. I'm really interested to see how Kira survived this one. Him and Mwu are holding a survival competition: who can survive the biggest blast in one piece. I do want to see where the explosion came from. I hate it when they do that.

I once again show the pic from 2 pages back.

There isn't very much debris in that picture -- certainly not enough to make up very much of Freedom, probably not even enough to account for all the pieces of Impulse that are missing after the explosion. I'm pretty sure Freedom is relatively in one piece. Probably used the chaos of the explosion to pull off of the sword and drop into the water. Remember that Kira was just trying to escape with Archangel the entire time, so he wouldn't necessarily attack Shin right there; he may have seen a chance to slip away and he took it.

[Fort Max]

There aren't a lot of pieces in that scene though, not enough for a whole suit anyway, so there's still a chance we could see that scene. Maybe the hole the anti-ship sword made is where they install that cannon.

I really doubt that blast was nuclear, there's no way Impulse could survive a nuclear blast at ground zero.

Juat what I was going to say, minus the bit about the cannon though that would is clever.

Plus of course, Forget Impluse, there's no way Kira could have surived that and if he's dead then we'll all be seriously shocked.

Perhaps Freedom rises up from it's watery grave, spawning half a dozen gashapon mini dioramas as it does so.

[azrael]

To Shinn and Athrun, Freedom is destroyed, period. Either Kira used the flash and pulled away from the sword or was knocked off from the sword. Either way, Kira got away (Imagine Shinn finding out he didn't destroy Freedom. ) and pulls a Jedi move. I swear, Kira taught Mu how to come back even after it looks like you've been killed...or Mu taught Kira how to make the impossible possible. Both of those guys have had their MS/MA shot at, shredded, or destroyed, and they still survive. Heck, they've even been shot at outside their MS and they still lived... Nowhere in the Jedi manual does it say you can survive all of that....