azrael Posted February 8, 2005 Posted February 8, 2005 (edited) He was constantly looking out for him,, When he notice that Neo was about to attack Shinn while Impulse was distracted by Gaiga , he quickly did some covering fire for shin even though he still in a battle with Sting. Athrun was playing babysitter. Athrun had to deal with guarding Minerva, fighting Chaos, the Windams, Neo and watching Shinn's ass. When Athrun was fighting in that ZAKU, he had good wingmen, Yzak and Dearka. With them, it was a 1-2 punch-knockout. There was no doubt among them. With Shinn, it's something else. Shinn pretty much went on his own chasing Neo down then getting caught up with Gaia. It boils down to Shinn not following orders. (Read the episode 16 discussion on AnimeSuki's forums and you will understand why it comes down to this). In the end, they couldn't save the sub. Abyss is at home in the water, Auel would have ran circles around them and then some. Shinn lacks discipline. He's implusive and in this case, ignored orders from the commanding field officer and getting himself in trouble because of it. Their objective was the hold-off the incoming targets. They weren't looking for the base (although they suspected it being there, it was not the objective). And it didn't help Shinn when he pretty much told Athrun to piss-off so he could fight Gaia. At that point, Athrun had to hold off everyone else just so Shinn could fight Gaia. Edited February 8, 2005 by azrael
Effect Posted February 8, 2005 Posted February 8, 2005 (edited) I think the Windams pilots must be taking shooting lessons from the same person that taught Stormtroopers how to shoot. Its getting crazy now. Then again, no more crazy then Kira and Athrun's multitargeting show while inside Freedom and Justice. Edited February 8, 2005 by Effect
Panon Posted February 8, 2005 Posted February 8, 2005 His priorities are really screwed up more so then I thought. That base at the moment was no threat, the Gundams and Neo's Windam were. The peopel there weren't his concern, no matter how he tries to justify it. They could have always came back to it later. Uh - at that point, all of the Windams had been destroyed and the base was to be a forward point for the EA to launch attacks against the one military base ZAFT still hold on Earth (notice how surprised they were to find hostiles so close?) so leaving it intact would have been a bad idea. As for the rest, you're just projecting your own Shinn hate into something that wasn't supported by the anime itself, seeing the people there being killed is exactly why he burnt the base to the ground and freed them. You're suffering from tunnel vision worse than Shinn ever has. And for Athrun of all people to try to give lectures on not acting on proper military discipline and not acting on your own feelings? Please. I'm glad Shinn essentially told him to shove it when he was getting slapped.
Graham Posted February 8, 2005 Posted February 8, 2005 Just picked up the 3 new Destiny MSiA, Lunamaria's Gunner Zaku Warrior, the Dagger-L and the Guiaz-R(sp?)All three are very nice figures. Graham Can you snap some pictures of Lunemaria's Zaku and the Guaiz-R? Will try to snap some pics in the next couple of days. Lunamaria's Zaku is a slightly lighter shade of red than it should be IMO, but still a nice figure. The skirt armor hasn't fallen off once yet, which is good as on my Blaze & Slash Zakus it occasionally comes off when you bend the legs. The Gunner pack is nice and attaches very securely. I'm not a fan of the Guaiz-R design in the anime, but the MSiA toy is very well engineered. I'm really in love with the Dagger-L, this is a really great toy. The flight pack is very cool and the articulation on the base figure is excellent, especially the ankles, as there is no bulky ankle armor to block the movement. Graham
Morpheus Posted February 8, 2005 Posted February 8, 2005 I think the Windams pilots must be taking shooting lessons from the same person that taught Stormtroopers how to shoot. Its getting crazy now. Then again, no more crazy then Kira and Athrun's multitargeting show while inside Freedom and Justice. Talking about multi-targeting systems, when I see 30 Windams are sent against Minerva, I was hoping that Athrun would go berserk in his Seed mode, I mean firing all the weapons (the rifle and the plasma cannon) as the Freedom did and taking out 30 Windams . Maybe the Saviour is not equipped with such system .
azrael Posted February 8, 2005 Posted February 8, 2005 Maybe the Saviour is not equipped with such system . Well Saviour wasn't designed with the METEOR units in mind so why should it have it.....
Fort Max Posted February 8, 2005 Posted February 8, 2005 (edited) Talking about multi-targeting systems, when I see 30 Windams are sent against Minerva, I was hoping that Athrun would go berserk in his Seed mode, I mean firing all the weapons (the rifle and the plasma cannon) as the Freedom did and taking out 30 Windams .Maybe the Saviour is not equipped with such system . Athrun was never in deep enough danger to trigger the whole seed thing. I think, I still haven't seen the last 10 or so eps so no lectures if I'm wrong please. Athrun vs Sting, As well as territory and Sting being more used to the chaos. The reverse can be said of Athrun and the Saviour in that he isn't used to it yet and it's aslo hella fast which might have thrown his accuracy off. Discipline, I aggree that Shinn got off well easy, especially compared to past characters such as Uso Ebbing (V) or Garroad Ran (X). He shouldn't have disobeyed orders so openly but he did deal that upcoming base a significant blow. Abyss's development, As wella s Australia, ZAFT still has their base at Carepentaria which is costal based so it's fair to say that Abyss is a test bed for future underwater suits to defend their exsisting territory. That's certainly how I'd sell it if I was dullindal, speaking of which I still don't think he's going to be the main bad guy here. Their just doesn't seem to be any foreshadowing or indication that he's anything otrher then his appearence belies. That would seem rather unusual to me given the blatentness of the "clue" surrounding Neos identity in the new Op. Windams vs Gundams, Several points to throw out here. The EA pilots are only regular troops and second to that, they're naturals as well. All the Gundam pilots and Neo are co-ordinators of one kind or another and are elite well trained pilots on top of that. The phase shift armour isn't just for show. Shinn & Stellar, Awww, another young love tradgey in the making. I hope it's as involving as Camille and Four. I think that's everything, all in all it was a good epsiode. I hope shinn can move forward from here no matter where that may take him. Edited February 8, 2005 by Fort Max
Druna Skass Posted February 8, 2005 Posted February 8, 2005 I don't think the Alliance MS pilots being Naturals have anything to do with their poor performance. The Windam's OS should be compensating for all that. Like I mentioned before, the Strike Daggers can more than hold their own against GINNs. The Minerva's crew are all elite and the same can't be said for these Alliance guys.
ogami Posted February 9, 2005 Posted February 9, 2005 (edited) I believe 50. or 52 if they want to end the SEED series... SEED used to have 52. Bandai made it 50 to cut out the *true* ending so they can continue to make money out of SEED... ------------------------ After watching ep16, Shin just became the first Gundam main character that I hate... (for now) Edited February 9, 2005 by ogami
Panon Posted February 10, 2005 Posted February 10, 2005 SEED used to have 52. Bandai made it 50 to cut out the *true* ending so they can continue to make money out of SEED... No they didn't. SEED was never a 52 episode series. People however did make that false assumption based on the fact it had a 52 week run on tv, before knowing that there would be two weeks without episodes.
F360° Posted February 10, 2005 Posted February 10, 2005 SEED used to have 52. Bandai made it 50 to cut out the *true* ending so they can continue to make money out of SEED... No they didn't. SEED was never a 52 episode series. People however did make that false assumption based on the fact it had a 52 week run on tv, before knowing that there would be two weeks without episodes. But I bet most of the false assumption, if they are in fact false are from the last couple of eps. I mean,, it looks too dam packed. They squeesed too much stuff in the last 3 eps.. it would of been better if they just let it have 1 or 2 more eps.
ogami Posted February 10, 2005 Posted February 10, 2005 SEED used to have 52. Bandai made it 50 to cut out the *true* ending so they can continue to make money out of SEED... No they didn't. SEED was never a 52 episode series. People however did make that false assumption based on the fact it had a 52 week run on tv, before knowing that there would be two weeks without episodes. But I bet most of the false assumption, if they are in fact false are from the last couple of eps. I mean,, it looks too dam packed. They squeesed too much stuff in the last 3 eps.. it would of been better if they just let it have 1 or 2 more eps. The "rumor" is they changed the ending so SEED can go on and they can sell the *last 2 eps* as OVA on DVDs...
azrael Posted February 10, 2005 Posted February 10, 2005 Panon is correct about the 50-episode thing. However, things changed during the production. Many things that were flying around were Kira was suppose to die, Flay was suppose to be the pilot of Strike Rouge, Andy was to stay dead and a few other things. In fact, around summer of the time that SEED aired, we were hearing rumors of SEED 2 (which would be Destiny). So changes in the story happen during production. When the production crew were told that Seed would continue, they probably changed the story to allow it to carry on and wrote an open ending.
Hikuro Posted February 10, 2005 Posted February 10, 2005 I heard things as well: Kreuzete made a comment about flay being "The Key" and rumor had it he was going to plant a bomb inside her. And when she returned to the Arch Angel at the end (instead of being killed in the Dominions escape pod) she was suppose to go boom with the ship. Also, Dearka was also suppose to die near the end, but the director liked the character as much as he liked the actor and changed it. Your also right, Andy was suppose to be killed off but they felt the actor was just too good to get rid of him. Kira was gonna die too in his final battle and I believe Athrun was suppose to die as well..... DAMN THEY'RE CHANGES!
azrael Posted February 10, 2005 Posted February 10, 2005 "The Key" and rumor had it he was going to plant a bomb inside her. Yep. Andy was suppose to be killed off but they felt the actor was just too good to get rid of him. Director Fukada likes Ryotaro Okiayu's voice so he brought him back from the dead. DAMN THEY'RE CHANGES! Yep. In fact, I bet their still plotting Seed Destiny.
Anubis Posted February 10, 2005 Author Posted February 10, 2005 I think Seed's problem was precisely because the shpw was still being made as it aired, just like Destiny is now. The problem with the first show was they they took entirely too damn long to get to alaska, so there wasn't enough time to play with all of the plot angles they wanted in the remaining episodes. Over half the show passed before they even made it to the Alaska base. Thankfully they seemed to learn their lesson with Destiny, and are managing the time a lot better. If this was the first series, the first 8 episodes would ave been spent chasing the Girtly Lue, instead of getting right to the colony drop. Destiny has much better pacing so far, so hopefully they'll wrap up the loose threads this time.
Keith Posted February 10, 2005 Posted February 10, 2005 Now explain all the damn clipshow episodes on seed!
Effect Posted February 10, 2005 Posted February 10, 2005 Maybe they needed an extra week at times to go back and redo things since the story was always changing. What better way to buy time then to show a clip show with a tiny bit of actual new story just to put on tv. I really wish the story was actually planned instead of being done as it went along and things be decided based on which character is popular or the director liking the voice of a character. Ugh. I had no idea things were actually like that.
Anubis Posted February 10, 2005 Author Posted February 10, 2005 Now explain all the damn clipshow episodes on seed! Lecture mode (cue Washu): Most of us already know that most long running shows, and many 26-episode shows, have recap episodes included in the show's plan. This saves animation budget for the climax and such. It also helps with the way shows are aired. When given once a week with no reruns over the span of 6 months to a year, a recap can help serve to bring newcomers up to speed as well. Macross is one example. Originally one recap episode was planned, but when the show got extended, another recap was included as well. Some shows are handling it differently now, which is cool as well. I like how Seed -Edited- was presented. More like a special than an actual episode it seems. I wonder if it'll make it into the eventual dvd release in place as aired, or as an extra (like in Chobit's release). The first recap episode in Seed SO pissed me off. You don't do a recap episode after a cliffhanger. It's just rude. At least the Orb ones were placed more apporpriately. Some shows push it in the number of recap episodes though. Seed pushed it, Chobits pushed it (though they were removed from the order during the dvd releaase ), and Wolf's Rain supposedly REALLY pushed it (with recap episodes back-to-back IINM, I haven't seen Wolf's Rain).
HG Blows Posted February 10, 2005 Posted February 10, 2005 Wow, finally saw ep 16. Small observation, Lunamaria took yet another hit. All you Lunamaria fans should brace for her eventual death. She reminds me of Nicol, not quite as good as everyone else. And I bet she'll probably die the same way, jumping in front of blow meant for Shinn (his recklessness will put him in a bad spot). Just my guess, that would help Shinn evolve a little more as well, makes sense.
F360° Posted February 11, 2005 Posted February 11, 2005 (edited) just in from Gunta headlines.. "regarding Takanori Nishikawa's role as Haine Westenfluss in DESTINY, the article goes out of its way to specifically state that Nishikawa appears in the episodes broadcast on February 26th (Ep. 19), March 12th (Ep. 21), March 19th (Ep. 22), and March 26th (Ep. 23). This might lend credence to speculation that the Westenfluss role will only be a limited one. " Fandom Kira/Athrun/Cagalli/ hmm. I bet's it's Shinns fault. Shinn/ WTF? stop your bitching, don't judge the cake until i finish baking! the rest / keeping mouth shut Ep 16 has generated pages and pages of debate in almost every single forum.. I wonder what would happen after ep23 if somthing bad really happend. It'll surely start the talk of ep 16 again. Edited February 11, 2005 by F360°
azrael Posted February 11, 2005 Posted February 11, 2005 Ep 16 has generated pages and pages of debate in almost every single forum.. I wonder what would happen after ep23 if somthing bad really happend. It'll surely start the talk of ep 16 again. Well....... (possible spoilers, Highlight to read*): There's a rumor running around that Haine with meet his fate at the hands of Kira. Haine is suppose to go after Lacus (more possible evidence that Chairman Dullindal was behind the assasination attempt). Remember, Haine is part of FAITH and we know who controls FAITH. Again, this is 100% rumor. Don't believe it until some episode previews come out. Some speculation on my part is that they could be saving Haine for MSV/Destiny Astray. Miguel (Takanori Nishikawa's other role) was good enough to grant him his own custom GINN. Now they gave him 2 orange MS (an orange ZAKU Phantom and a GOUF Ignited)..... Also Mr. Nishikawa is a musician by trade so giving him a voice role would conflict with his schedule and be expensive.... (*Disclaimer: Please remember to use spoiler tags)
Graham Posted February 11, 2005 Posted February 11, 2005 Wow, finally saw ep 16. Small observation, Lunamaria took yet another hit. All you Lunamaria fans should brace for her eventual death. She reminds me of Nicol, not quite as good as everyone else. And I bet she'll probably die the same way, jumping in front of blow meant for Shinn (his recklessness will put him in a bad spot). Just my guess, that would help Shinn evolve a little more as well, makes sense. Given that Lunamaria seems to have a crush on Athrun, I'd think it more likely that she will die saving Athrun, not Shin. Graham
Graham Posted February 11, 2005 Posted February 11, 2005 Windams vs Gundams,The phase shift armour isn't just for show. As far as we know, Phase Shift Armor only works against projectile weapons, and is inaffective against beam weapons. If this is true it would seem to have little relevance any more, given that all of the newer mass produced MS like the Zaku, Dagger-L, Windam & Murasame carry beam weapons as standard. Graham
Anubis Posted February 11, 2005 Author Posted February 11, 2005 (edited) Phase Shift officially has no effect on Beam Weapons. That's what the Sheilds are for. Shields block Beam Sabers and shots. Phase shift does protect against convential weapons, projectiles, and explosives. That's why phase shift doesn't matter as much any more, and why the Zaku's can still kick ass. Beam weapons really leveled the paying field. It's who has the ace pilots in the end now. The bonus the Gundams now provide is their specialties in either transformation, or in Impulse's case the versatility of it's sillouette packs. Their performance is also kicked up a notch. Edited February 11, 2005 by Anubis
azrael Posted February 11, 2005 Posted February 11, 2005 Given that Lunamaria seems to have a crush on Athrun, I'd think it more likely that she will die saving Athrun, not Shin. Lunamaria is more like an older sister to Shinn. Phase Shift officially has no effect on Beam Weapons. (For reference's sake) http://www.gundamofficial.com/worlds/ce/ba...gy.html#psarmor Their performance is also kicked up a notch. Compared to the last generation, the new Gundams out perform their predecessors.
Morpheus Posted February 12, 2005 Posted February 12, 2005 Just watched epi.17 Laughed at the first half during Meer concert The Lohengrim gate is something else, protected a mobile armor (looks like a dagger riding something ), it capable of wiping out an entire ZAFT strike force. And there`s more....finally.....Lunamaria fanservice.....
Morpheus Posted February 12, 2005 Posted February 12, 2005 (edited) so fast? where can I get this? Currently I`m in Tokyo untill September, I watched it on TV here (sometimes I missed due to my busy schedule). Saiyaman should have the raw torrent in a few hours, check em http://bt.saiyaman.info/ Edited February 12, 2005 by Morpheus
F360° Posted February 12, 2005 Posted February 12, 2005 I though you might have got it from another place.... Didn't know you were in Tokyo. Thanks I was checking with them at first but their BT seems and forum seem to be down.. but now it's all back up.. woohooo Click, click,, 30minutes to go.
Morpheus Posted February 12, 2005 Posted February 12, 2005 BTW, this is the MA that serve as the positron shield for the lohengrim gate Looks like a Dagger type MS riding a Mega Rider from ZZ
F360° Posted February 12, 2005 Posted February 12, 2005 woohoo, finally some Luna fanservice. Lots of talks in this one. Meer Campbell (fake lacus) = Minmay , she even moves like her:lol: They have a bunch of cut screens here.. http://www.h-opera.com/
Mechafan Posted February 12, 2005 Posted February 12, 2005 I can not wait to see ep 17 that mobile are looks nice. Looks like the Federation spent some good money this time. Anyone know who is behind the plot to kill Lacus?
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