Official Gundam Seed Destiny Thread

[Druna Skass]

In this thread so far there's been a lot of mention of various characters (Mwu, Rau, Rey) being Newtypes, but is this actually established fact, i.e. is it actually written down anywhere in official source material from Sunrise/Bandai, or actually mentioned in the show?

Or just because some of the characters get that little lightning flash thingy when they sense another character, or to warn them of danger are we just assuming that they are new types without having solid facts to base this assumption on?

Graham

There was an interview on Guntota where the writer (I forget his name) states that Mwu and Raww are Newtypes. He also states that they're the only ones, though I'm not sure if Bandai decided to change that, since now we have Morgan and his Gunbarrel Dagger, and in the early stages of the first war, the Alliance had a whole Mobius Zero squad.

[Druna Skass]

Coordinators carry resistance to diseases so biological weapons would be hard to use.

Well your system can't be immune to a disease that doesn't exist yet. I'm sure the Alliance has some bioengineers that could make some really nasty virus or bacteria never seen before.

[Shade]

I don't think Shins that good a pilot....yet.

Shinn's one of ZAFT's elite pilots actually, since he wears the red uniform. I don't think he's as good as Rey, but Rey may just like his Zaku Phantom too much to transfer.

While in eps 1-2 he was able to avoid being damaged by the 3 stolen Gundams, I don't think it's really that accurate to say he fought them to a standstill. He was also unable to damage the 3 Gundams at all. Of course he may have been deliberately trying not to damage them so that ZAFT could get them back intact.

Well, if he had actually been doing damage to them and not taking any, he'd have been beating them. As it was, neither side was able to do anything to the others, a standstill.

Athrun an Yzak did much better in their ZAKUs against the 3 stolen Gundams in episode #6. Of couse Athrun and Yzak are far more experienced pilots than Shin, but the ZAKU should also be an inferior machine compared to the Impulse or the 3 stolen Gundams.

I think it would be funny if they broke with Gundam convention and made these four Gundams actually inferior to the Zakus, failed prototypes as it were.

It's hard to say if the Gundams are superior to the Zakus really, since sadly we have no performance data on any of the suits. I can't argue against Athrun and Yzak's superiority, of course. Athrun was handling business without ever using his Seed mode, and Yzak was kicking ass and looking to add another V-fin to his kill sheet.

On a side note, I wonder who the orange Zaku Phantom belongs to? Maybe we'll find out if there are Destiny MSVs.

On a second side note, why are folks capitallizing Zaku? Yeah, it's an acronym, but so's Gundam, and that's being spelled normally.

[Anubis]

I look at these 4 gundams more like technical concept protoypes really, with phase shift thrown in, and extra weapons. Different transformation concepts for each stolen Gundam and in the Impulse's case designed to work with the sillouette packs.

The actual performance between the Zakus and Gundams are comparable it seems. The Zakus are still top of the line suits, and use the Strike Pack-style setup, with either the booster, or Gunner packs. Watching Yzak and Dearka in Ep. 9, you know those Zakus are excellent mobile suits. One shot from the Gunner Zaku to destroy a cap ship for instance. The only thing those two lost from their old Gundams was Phase Shift, and again, Phase Shift don't mean much at all anymore now that everyone uses beam weaponry.

Edited December 15, 2004 by Anubis

[Graham]

Phase Shift don't mean much at all anymore now that everyone uses beam weaponry.

Actually, I'm wondering why no other MS so far has been fitted with a version of the Forbidden Gundam's energy deflection armor as that was very effective against beam weapons.

Graham

[phuqueue]

Phase Shift don't mean much at all anymore now that everyone uses beam weaponry.

Actually, I'm wondering why no other MS so far has been fitted with a version of the Forbidden Gundam's energy deflection armor as that was very effective against beam weapons.

Graham

Forbidden's energy deflection made use of the mirage colloid, which is prohibited by the treaty. Now that the treaty's effectively useless, people will probably start incorporating that into their weapons.

[HG Blows]

What's the problem N-Jammer Cancellors? I mean EA already tried to fry Plant with nukes in ep 9.

Plus, I dont think Shin's all that. I hope they dont put him on the same level as Athrun and Kira. He shouldnt even be as good as Yzak, maybe Deakka though. My hope is he gets bitch slapped the whole series.

[azrael]

Well your system can't be immune to a disease that doesn't exist yet.

But their immune systems could be a very aggressive one. In time, they could adapt. This would cause problems. A chemical agent would be faster and more destructive. Poisons would instantly be rejected by the body and effects would be near instantaneous. They could adapt to that but by that time, the population would be decimated because you kill entire populations with just 1 strike.

On a side note, I wonder who the orange Zaku Phantom belongs to?

It's suppose to be Miguel's brother. But that's for the Astray and MSV stories to tell.

On a second side note, why are folks capitallizing Zaku? Yeah, it's an acronym, but so's Gundam, and that's being spelled normally.

Habit.....You go with what the official writtings.

I look at these 4 gundams more like technical concept protoypes really, with phase shift thrown in, and extra weapons. Different transformation concepts for each stolen Gundam and in the Impulse's case designed to work with the sillouette packs.

Exactly. As I said earlier, each one is practically a prototype replacement for the current models.

Gaia/BuCUE, Abyss/GOOhN, ZnO, Chaos/GINN, CGUE, GuAIZ, Providence, Saviour/DINN. Impulse takes a ZAKU and builds on that concept with not only mission-variable packs, but perhaps interchangable sections/main body frame depending on what the mission calls for.

edit:....more replies....

Forbidden's energy deflection made use of the mirage colloid, which is prohibited by the treaty. Now that the treaty's effectively useless, people will probably start incorporating that into their weapons.

Impulse's shield uses that as well (with the Force silhouete), hence the energy field you see when the shield opens. Some how, I don't think it's as good as Forbidden's though.

When are we going to see a Windam vs Zaku fight?

When EA pulls it's head out of their ass from this past week's shameful defeat.

Edited December 15, 2004 by azrael

[Druna Skass]

When are we going to see a Windam vs Zaku fight?

[Anubis]

When are we going to see a Windam vs Zaku fight?

Once the EA builds more Windams. They're kind of out right now.

[Morpheus]

Daggers, Windams, I was expecting the EA suit will be named like Stilettos, Rapier etc

The Windams are pretty cool, to bad they are piloted by freaks and didn`t show many action in ep.9, however they did make a good cannon fodder

I saw a Dagger blast a Zaku in front of one of the ZAFT Laurasia class, I may be mistaken....

I just bough the HG Chaos Gundam, its mobile armor mode is very similliar to valk Gerwalk mode, so I leave it at MA mode .

[DarkPhoenix]

Well, we do see Strike Rouge with ISWP in the opening (or is it the ending, I forget?), so I think there's a good chance we will see it in the show later on.

Graham

It's in the intro, yeah. Astray Red Frame was in SEED's first intro, though, and it certainly didn't show up in the series.

I'd love to see Cagalli have to lay the smack down in an upgraded Strike Rogue. It's not too hard to BS and say Morgenwrate (sp?) upgraded its internals but left the external frame alone to make it comparable with the newest generation of MS and gave it the IWSP to avoid having to provide new Strike Packs.

By the look of it, Orb'll either bow down and be the EA's bitch or get slapped around like one (again) after they refuse.. I'm betting on the latter, really, just to give Kira more reason to get back in the saddle and pilot Freedom again. I agree with the others, by the way, who think Freedom still has its nuclear reactor and N-Jammer Canceler.. Freedom would of been kept as a "if it hits the fan.." back-up. Mass-produced Astrays and (possibly) the Strike Rogue wouldn't be enough to stand up to another invasion after all, but Freedom (and its pilot, who conveniently sought refuge in Orb) certainly could.

[Druna Skass]

Mass-produced Astrays and (possibly) the Strike Rogue wouldn't be enough to stand up to another invasion after all, but Freedom (and its pilot, who conveniently sought refuge in Orb) certainly could.

I don't know, Freedom and Justice couldn't hold back the last Alliance assault.

[Magnus]

Forbidden's energy deflection made use of the mirage colloid, which is prohibited by the treaty. Now that the treaty's effectively useless, people will probably start incorporating that into their weapons.

Bwah? How did it employ Mirage Colloid? Besides, like another poster mentioned, the same technology is in use in Shinn's shield.

What i'd like to know is what the new EA Gundams are like. Come on, they HAD to have built some, especially since they've been making pilots like Sting and co. I'm really surprised that there aren't any featured in the series yet, that and ORB produced Gundams.

To be honest, ZAFT was the last side i'd expect to build brand new Gundams, especially with their new Zakus.

[DarkPhoenix]

Mass-produced Astrays and (possibly) the Strike Rogue wouldn't be enough to stand up to another invasion after all, but Freedom (and its pilot, who conveniently sought refuge in Orb) certainly could.

I don't know, Freedom and Justice couldn't hold back the last Alliance assault.

True, but they undoubtedly did better then the Astrays would of by themselves.

[Effect]

From what was said here I was thinking that the entire EA force was destroyed in episode 9. I see that isn't the case, just the ones caring nukes which seemed to be a small force compared to the main fleet that assulted the front line. Seems that both sides took loses but the EA more so. What I dont' get is that why did the ones that had already launched their nukes get destroyed as well? Was that suppose to just attack the nuke parts of the launchers or are simply all EA mobile suits and ships now nuke powered while the Zaft suits aren't?

Hmm I wonder why they didn't trying to pincer the Zaft captial and come from two directions instead of the simply the one side. The Zaft weapon could only fire in one direction. Granted the EA didn't know about it, still they had to expect something and they'd have a better chance with forces coming from three sides, the decoy fleet and two nuke fleets from different directions.

I wonder who the orange Zaku was. Seriously EA needs to get some ace pilots like that. I just seriously hope this series isn't pro-Zaft all the time. I had enough of Zaft getting the main attention in Gundam SEED.

[DarkPhoenix]

I wonder who the orange Zaku was. Seriously EA needs to get some ace pilots like that. I just seriously hope this series isn't pro-Zaft all the time. I had enough of Zaft getting the main attention in Gundam SEED.

Someone reported that the orange Zaku belonged to Miguel's brother.

[Effect]

Mass-produced Astrays and (possibly) the Strike Rogue wouldn't be enough to stand up to another invasion after all, but Freedom (and its pilot, who conveniently sought refuge in Orb) certainly could.

I don't know, Freedom and Justice couldn't hold back the last Alliance assault.

True, but they undoubtedly did better then the Astrays would of by themselves.

Yeah, those two are powerful but they alone can't hold back a massive EA or even a decently sized EA force sent at them. Orb would be over taken sooner or later. Didn't last time they were trying to capture their spaceport? This time around they could be out to simply destory everything which means attacking any and everything, making the fight harder for Orb since there would be no one central location where the fight would take place. The whole island would be a battlefield, not simply taking place in the ocean and on the edge of Orb.

[DarkPhoenix]

Yeah, those two are powerful but they alone can't hold back a massive EA or even a decently sized EA force sent at them. Orb would be over taken sooner or later. Didn't last time they were trying to capture their spaceport? This time around they could be out to simply destory everything which means attacking any and everything, making the fight harder for Orb since there would be no one central location where the fight would take place. The whole island would be a battlefield, not simply taking place in the ocean and on the edge of Orb.

If I understand the synopsis I've read correctly (the Cartoon Network broadcasts aren't quite there yet..) then Orb had the only linear cannon capable of launching things into orbit left on the planet. ZAFT either had destroyed the rest either initially or scuttled them after retreating into space.

[NoSuchFile]

Mass-produced Astrays and (possibly) the Strike Rogue wouldn't be enough to stand up to another invasion after all, but Freedom (and its pilot, who conveniently sought refuge in Orb) certainly could.

I don't know, Freedom and Justice couldn't hold back the last Alliance assault.

True, but they undoubtedly did better then the Astrays would of by themselves.

Yeah, those two are powerful but they alone can't hold back a massive EA or even a decently sized EA force sent at them. Orb would be over taken sooner or later. Didn't last time they were trying to capture their spaceport? This time around they could be out to simply destory everything which means attacking any and everything, making the fight harder for Orb since there would be no one central location where the fight would take place. The whole island would be a battlefield, not simply taking place in the ocean and on the edge of Orb.

Nah from what we saw in Gundam SEED in the battle for orb, Kira alone could have defeted the entire EA force sooner or later, the EA couldn't even shoot it and he was running around cutting their heads off like he was taking a walk in the park, without the help of the three stooges, EA would have suffered a massive defeat there, EA won because the three stooges where keeping Freedom and Justice away from the fight, and the EA seemed to be more than able to take care of the Astray's because they had more units, well, just my two cents

[phuqueue]

Forbidden's energy deflection made use of the mirage colloid, which is prohibited by the treaty. Now that the treaty's effectively useless, people will probably start incorporating that into their weapons.

Bwah? How did it employ Mirage Colloid? Besides, like another poster mentioned, the same technology is in use in Shinn's shield.

I wish I could remember the source on that info. I feel slightly less confident about it now that I've looked and can't find it on MAHQ or Bandai's site. I remember it being posted to the GML back when the show was still in progress though, and info on the GML is typically pretty trustworthy.

Anyway, it wasn't really explained how mirace colloid is used by Forbidden, but it kind of makes sense if you think about it. Mirage colloid turns Blitz invisible by bending light around it so that people can see through it as if it's not there. So Forbidden, I guess, uses mirage colloid particles to bend light in a different way, deflecting incoming energy attacks away from the MS.

Of course, the problem with that is that a beam is actually made of high-energy particles, not light, but it certainly wouldn't be the first time sci-fi anime broke its own laws of physics. So until there's a better explanation for Forbidden's beam deflection system, that's what I'm going with.

I don't remember seeing it on Shin's shield, though. Perhaps I just wasn't paying close enough attention. Can anyone point out a specific instance in which it occurs?

[Graham]

Some people have mentioned seeing a shimmering around Shin's shield, but I don't remember seeing it (screen caps anybody)?

Also, the English translations of the Impulses's specs on sites like MAHQ make no mention of the Impulse's shield having any special ability.

Graham

[Graham]

I'd love to see Cagalli have to lay the smack down in an upgraded Strike Rogue. It's not too hard to BS and say Morgenwrate (sp?) upgraded its internals but left the external frame alone to make it comparable with the newest generation of MS and gave it the IWSP to avoid having to provide new Strike Packs.

Does the Strike Gundam really need to be updated though? It's only what 2-3 years old, so performance-wise it shouldn't be that far behind the curve.

With a good pilot and the ISWP it should be comparable to all but the most advanced suits.

Graham

[azrael]

EA would have won, with or without Freedom or Justice. Numbers do make a difference and ORB just doesn't have the numbers to hold back an assault like that. Eventually, EA would have worn out ORB's defenses. In the battle before the Kusanagi launched, ORB had been beaten back. They were holding but they would not have been able to hold the line.

linear cannon capable of launching things into orbit left on the planet.

It's called a mass-driver.

Hmm I wonder why they didn't trying to pincer the Zaft captial and come from two directions instead of the simply the one side. The Zaft weapon could only fire in one direction. Granted the EA didn't know about it, still they had to expect something and they'd have a better chance with forces coming from three sides, the decoy fleet and two nuke fleets from different directions.

You answered your own question. EA didn't know about ZAFT's defenses until it was too late.

Bwah? How did it employ Mirage Colloid? Besides, like another poster mentioned, the same technology is in use in Shinn's shield.

Similar technology, different usage. Almost to tho the point that it wasn't the same. Where as the Mirage Colloid system absorbs and refracts light and radio waves, the system used on Forbidden only refracts. The system used on Impulse appears to only absorb.

[Panon]

I wish I could remember the source on that info.  I feel slightly less confident about it now that I've looked and can't find it on MAHQ or Bandai's site.  I remember it being posted to the GML back when the show was still in progress though, and info on the GML is typically pretty trustworthy.

Anyway, it wasn't really explained how mirace colloid is used by Forbidden, but it kind of makes sense if you think about it.  Mirage colloid turns Blitz invisible by bending light around it so that people can see through it as if it's not there.  So Forbidden, I guess, uses mirage colloid particles to bend light in a different way, deflecting incoming energy attacks away from the MS.

Of course, the problem with that is that a beam is actually made of high-energy particles, not light, but it certainly wouldn't be the first time sci-fi anime broke its own laws of physics.  So until there's a better explanation for Forbidden's beam deflection system, that's what I'm going with.

I don't remember seeing it on Shin's shield, though.  Perhaps I just wasn't paying close enough attention.  Can anyone point out a specific instance in which it occurs?

"Mirage colloid is a field of particles held together by a powerful magnetic field. When filled with prismatic particles, it serves as a cloaking device. In an alternate application, filled with beam-deflecting particles, it serves as a protective barrier on the two shields of the Forbidden Gundam"

Another application was that mirage colloid style technology is what was used to form beam saber blades, meaning all of them were redesigned to be Junius-7 Treaty compliant after that treaty was put in place.

With Shin's shield, when it activates in Force mode, it briefly appears to power up with a ring of energy emiting from the centre of the shield. Shin hit one of the other Gundams with the shield in the second episode and rather than just being a solid impact it appeared to deliver some kind of 'shock' for lack of a better term to the recieving suit.

However, it's definately not Forbidden style beam deflecting technology, at least not that has been seen - beam weapon impacts hit the shield directly just like they do to any other regular anti-beam shield.

[wolfx]

From what was said here I was thinking that the entire EA force was destroyed in episode 9. I see that isn't the case, just the ones caring nukes which seemed to be a small force compared to the main fleet that assulted the front line. Seems that both sides took loses but the EA more so. What I dont' get is that why did the ones that had already launched their nukes get destroyed as well? Was that suppose to just attack the nuke parts of the launchers or are simply all EA mobile suits and ships now nuke powered while the Zaft suits aren't?

Is the stampeder supposed to only destroy Nukes? I think it vaporises anything....but even if not, the blast from those lots-of-nukes would probably have killed them all anyway.

Hmm I wonder why they didn't trying to pincer the Zaft captial and come from two directions instead of the simply the one side. The Zaft weapon could only fire in one direction. Granted the EA didn't know about it, still they had to expect something and they'd have a better chance with forces coming from three sides, the decoy fleet and two nuke fleets from different directions.

They sorta did. The main EA force distracted them from their other sides while a smaller nuke flanker fleet closed in to the supposedly undefended side. I don't think it was possible to flank from more than 2 directions since the other sides would probably be ZAFT controlled areas and heavily defended.

[Druna Skass]

If I understand the synopsis I've read correctly (the Cartoon Network broadcasts aren't quite there yet..) then Orb had the only linear cannon capable of launching things into orbit left on the planet. ZAFT either had destroyed the rest either initially or scuttled them after retreating into space.

There was one on Orb and ZAFT held the one at Victoria in Africa and the one in Taiwan (I'm not sure if that one got detroyed though).

[azrael]

Is the stampeder supposed to only destroy Nukes?

Nope. It's more like a directed Cyclops system.

[wolfx]

Is the stampeder supposed to only destroy Nukes?

Nope. It's more like a directed Cyclops system.

That's what i thought.

[Anubis]

The name Neutron Stampeeder does sound like it's designed specifically to destroy nuclear weapons. They also show specifically the nuclear weapons detonating inside the ships.

The shoulder launchers on the Windams were HUGE, there could have been more than one missile in there. Possibly.

If so then this was likely the first volley, and then once the first volley hit the colonies, the Windam's could have hit the colonies with another volley, or the Windams could have turned around and launched the second volley into the Zaft fleet.

The Stampeeder took care of all that though.

Also, the Windams might well have been Nuclear powered. If they were slinging nuclear weapons, why wouldn't they also have the power plants? They didn't seem to have the power cord when they launched.

Edited December 16, 2004 by Anubis

[azrael]

It's doubtful those launchers carried more than 1/tube (x2 tubes/MS). The missiles they fired ran the length of the launcher and had a fairly large diameter. I couldn't tell if the Windams that got caught in the blast were still carrying nukes or not, but since they all got destroyed, there's no way to tell. Also, we don't know which ships were carrying nukes and which ones were escort so it would be kinda hard t tell.

Also, the Windams might well have been Nuclear powered. If they were slinging nuclear weapons, why wouldn't they also have the power plants? They didn't seem to have the power cord when they launched.

That's cuz we never saw the launch from inside the catapult. We see the mech connect to the catapult and then we see them exiting the ships. Also, the Dagger-Ls launching from the 250-meter class battleships did not have their cords attached.

[Anubis]

It's doubtful those launchers carried more than 1/tube (x2 tubes/MS). The missiles they fired ran the length of the launcher and had a fairly large diameter. I couldn't tell if the Windams that got caught in the blast were still carrying nukes or not, but since they all got destroyed, there's no way to tell. Also, we don't know which ships were carrying nukes and which ones were escort so it would be kinda hard t tell.

Also, the Windams might well have been Nuclear powered. If they were slinging nuclear weapons, why wouldn't they also have the power plants? They didn't seem to have the power cord when they launched.

That's cuz we never saw the launch from inside the catapult. We see the mech connect to the catapult and then we see them exiting the ships. Also, the Dagger-Ls launching from the 250-meter class battleships did not have their cords attached.

Yeah, that's true too. Guess we'll have to wait until they build more Windams to see if they're battery or Nuclear.

[DarkPhoenix]

Gundam really need to be updated though? It's only what 2-3 years old, so performance-wise it shouldn't be that far behind the curve.

With a good pilot and the ISWP it should be comparable to all but the most advanced suits.

Graham

If the synopsis from MAHQ are correct, then the Strike Gundam was already starting to become obsolete by the end of the war. I'd imagine if anything they would want to apply the newer PS technology to it, if they got their hands on it, as well as improved avionics, OS, etc.

[Effect]

I think that was the case. Once Mwu got the Strike, I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did. I think that might be more to do with Mwu's piloting skills and that he was a newtype. It seemed that once he came in contact with Rau Le Creuset and the Providence Gundam he was completely outclassed due to the power and performance of the Providence. Now if the current Gundams are as powerful as that or more so then the Providence and the Strike Rouge was basicly a copy of it(Strike) and was below the Freedom and Justice then I'd say if they did have another Strike it would have to be completely overhauled in its systems, parts, etc.

Speaking of which. I'd love to see how Neo Lorrnoke would fair against someone like Athrun, Kira or Yzak. Newtype vs. the top coordinators. We've seen him go against Ray but that was mobile armor vs. mobile suit. Not really a level playing field. It seemed at the end of Seed that Rau was holding his own against Kira until the very end. I always wonder who would win in a fight. Kira or Mwu if it ever came down to them getting serious with each other.

Edited December 16, 2004 by Effect

[DarkPhoenix]

Kira or Mwu if it ever came down to them getting serious with each other.

If it was a level playing field and Kira couldn't go SEED on poor Mwu's ass, then I'd say Mwu would win thanks to his experience. The real fun question is.. if Mwu had the Gunbarrel strike-pack, would he be able to take down the Freedom?