Seven Posted October 4, 2005 Posted October 4, 2005 My mind can take most of the Mwu thing. They screwed one of the greatest deaths in fiction history (at least IMO), but fiction means nothing is truly dead. What pisses me of is that they revive him for nothing really special, just so you can get more Mwu. Didn’t they have a new cast to develop? 333895[/snapback] Hhaha, you forget, Fukuda has stooped to this stupidity before. Andy was good and dead and he brought him back for IMO no good reason either. As for Mwu, they should have animated a burnt up dessicated corpse smacking into Archangel's bridge window the first time he died to really drive the point home that he's not ever ever coming back. How funny would it have been if Roy Focker just came back in a later episode of Macross to be relegated to a mere cameo and taking orders from Hikaru or Max?
Twoducks Posted October 4, 2005 Posted October 4, 2005 My mind can take most of the Mwu thing. They screwed one of the greatest deaths in fiction history (at least IMO), but fiction means nothing is truly dead. What pisses me of is that they revive him for nothing really special, just so you can get more Mwu. Didn’t they have a new cast to develop? 333895[/snapback] Hhaha, you forget, Fukuda has stooped to this stupidity before. Andy was good and dead and he brought him back for IMO no good reason either. As for Mwu, they should have animated a burnt up dessicated corpse smacking into Archangel's bridge window the first time he died to really drive the point home that he's not ever ever coming back. How funny would it have been if Roy Focker just came back in a later episode of Macross to be relegated to a mere cameo and taking orders from Hikaru or Max? 333900[/snapback] If they can edit out Mwu's cracked helmet floating in the middle of space they can edit out whatever the hell they want. Look on the bright side, if they are OK with editing stuff out then someday they might edit out good chunks of Destiny and finish it properly. Hehehe, Mwu now reminds me of SP’s Kenny ("Fukada, you bastard, you killed Kenn..er Mwu", then next episode his fine and dandy).
kalvasflam Posted October 4, 2005 Posted October 4, 2005 Is it really ripping off when its really Okawara just rehashing his same designs and being lazy overall? Can he really be ripping himself off?Actually, he probably owes an apology to Yutaka Izubuchi for ripping off Nu Gundam. I think that the Akatsuki is sufficiently different from the Hyaku Shiki that he doesn't owe an apology to Mamoru Nagano. 333815[/snapback] Good point there. I think though it's not the gundams that I'm referring to, but all the Zaku, DOM, Goufs that's on my mind when I made the rip off statement. And you're right about Akatsuki, it's a sufficiently new design on its own right. The key is that outside of the original set of gundams in GSD, they didn't introduce many new designs, SF and IJ were rehash at best, but the laziness seem to be reflective of that particular staff overall. As for fevernt defenders of GSD, I'm sure there are some out there. They just need the courage to pipe up and defend the product, and tell all the critics that if they don't like it, they didn't have to watch. That's all. Now, regarding Mwu/Neo, as Anubis said, it's a travesty. Ideally, he should've stayed dead, but no, he has to come back, and now people are just going to forgive him for what he did as Neo? The same is true with Andy, I don't mind so much that he came back, he had just a little role in GSD, and it was good for a bit, and then he was nicely shunted aside because they had to bring back Mwu. So nice to just gloss things over. Yeah, can you imagine Roy coming back after dying. "Oh, by the way, I'm back, Hikaru, but I've been crippled, and can only ride the ELINT valks now.... "
Panon Posted October 4, 2005 Posted October 4, 2005 Hhaha, you forget, Fukuda has stooped to this stupidity before. Andy was good and dead and he brought him back for IMO no good reason either. They brought Andy back for quite a good reason - the show didn't have a lot of compelling adult characters, and he very much was one. The difference his, there is no problem with his return. His survival was completely plausible (an explosion of his mobile suit seen from the distance on Earth isn't a clear, concise and absolute 'death') and more importantly, his survival had consequences - the person with him died, and he was severely injured. He came back a changed character, a semi-cripple who instead of piloting a mobile suit now used his command abilities and experience. I think anybody who critisises his return is only really looking for excuses to score points against Fukuda, because it was obviously for the better, just like Dearka's supposedly merchandising prompted alliegance shift, and all the other terrible ideas they canned that were initially planned for late in the series. On the other hand, Mu steps in front of a positron blast in space, explodes, obviously dies an unmistakable death... and through retconning away of a couple of frames of footage, he gets to return in Destiny and eventually the only price of what happened to him turned out to be a scratch on his face. He didn't even come back for a reasonable reason, he just does, and when he's back he does nothing to justify his return, only things that ruin his character.
Druna Skass Posted October 4, 2005 Posted October 4, 2005 There is no way anyone can say Akatsuki is an original design, it's essetialy a gold plated Strike with Nu Gundam's weapons, and this is comming from someone who considers it one of their favorite MS. If there's someone he owes an apology to it's Junichi Akutsu. The only problem I have with the Mwu thing is that they basicaly brought him back for nothing. If they didn't waste so much time in the middle and try to shoe-horn in everything at the end, they could have changed his charater a bit and have him regain his memories half way though and spend the rest of the series doing the whole feeling guilty/trying to atone thing. Losing a couple limbs like Andy did, would have been nice too. They should have had him take out Rey, in some, I'm-ending-this-cursed-bloodline thing. I would have made more sence to have something going on between those two instead of that one fight in the first episode. As for a sequel, taking place 50 years down the line, would be the best. It'll force the writers to use whatever new characters they come up with.
Panon Posted October 4, 2005 Posted October 4, 2005 As for a sequel, taking place 50 years down the line, would be the best. It'll force the writers to use whatever new characters they come up with. They made that mistake with the Universal Century and I'd rather them not do that again.
kalvasflam Posted October 4, 2005 Posted October 4, 2005 How about an interesting side story. 0080 wasn't bad, and neither was 08th MS team. A side story based on Astray manga could be a good choice. The only injunction being you can't use any of the Seed/GSD characters. Because it is blazingly obvious that the Seed characters are like crack cocaine, once used, the writers can't give it up. They'll keep snorting them until the end of series.
Druna Skass Posted October 4, 2005 Posted October 4, 2005 How about an interesting side story. 0080 wasn't bad, and neither was 08th MS team. A side story based on Astray manga could be a good choice. The only injunction being you can't use any of the Seed/GSD characters. Because it is blazingly obvious that the Seed characters are like crack cocaine, once used, the writers can't give it up. They'll keep snorting them until the end of series. 333960[/snapback] Well it depends on who the get writing it. I've got two of the Astray mangas and few of the SEED characters make cameos, but they're gone by the next page. One was just Cagali showing up, yelling a people, then leaving.
Graham Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 0080 wasn't bad, and neither was 08th MS team. 333960[/snapback] Not bad?!!! They were fricken excellent! Along with CCA, they are the best the Gundam franchise has to offer IMO. Certainly better than the pile of Poo Destiny turned into. Graham
Seven Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 As for a sequel, taking place 50 years down the line, would be the best. It'll force the writers to use whatever new characters they come up with. They made that mistake with the Universal Century and I'd rather them not do that again. 333954[/snapback] Are you talking about F91 or Victory? F91 was mediocre but I really liked the Crossbone Vanguard mobile suits. I thought the general consensus was that Victory had a solid story and a great ending.
Graham Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 I personally love Victory and to this day consider it to be the best of the Gundam TV series, even better than the fan fav Zeta, which I consider highly overrated. Graham
Effect Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 (edited) F91 didn't work out cause Tomino woudn't play ball and give Bandai what they wanted in terms of story. He wanted to do it his way and they wanted more angst(Seabook to be another Amuro for example) from what I understand and full support went behind Gundam 0083 instead of Gundam F91 and as a result the series (which was on episode 13 I think, though I don't know if all those episodes were done or at least in some way under production at the time) got reduced to a movie. So skipping ahead isn't a bad thing, as long as those making it doesn't get support pulled from them. For all we know a series version of Gundam F91 could have been a hit but we'll never know now. Edited October 5, 2005 by Effect
Panon Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 Are you talking about F91 or Victory? Both, but more specifically Victory. I don't mean anything about their quality at all (Victory was a good series, and I liked F-91 despite it being a tad... broken) what I mean is that jumping ahead in time to free yourself of connections to previous series... removes any reason for making a sequel in that timeline. Victory was UC in name only. It may as well have been the first alternate universe, and the same would apply if you jumped 90 years ahead in the Cosmic Era. Why bother? F91 didn't work out cause Tomino woudn't play ball and give Bandai what they wanted in terms of story. He wanted to do it his way and they wanted more angst(Seabook to be another Amuro for example) Positive proof that higher ups interfering with Tomino was more often than not a good thing.
aaajin Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 (edited) now, anyone has the HCM pro destiny pics they can share with? Thanks a bunch Edited October 5, 2005 by aaajin
Magnus Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 I personally love Victory and to this day consider it to be the best of the Gundam TV series, even better than the fan fav Zeta, which I consider highly overrated. I found Victory difficult to get into though, it took a good twenty eps. Also, i agree wholeheartedly that Zeta is waaay over-rated. Frankly, I thought it was pretty crappy - and to this day I don't get why it's considered to be so amazing. I much preferred Gundam X and even Seed over it. I will admit that Destiny was worse though, which given how much I was boosting the Seed universe is saying a LOT.
sabretooth Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 just watched ep 49-50 now i want to punch people....
Graham Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 now, anyone has the HCM pro destiny pics they can share with? Thanks a bunch 334029[/snapback] I bought one last week, but wasn't that impressed with it. The shoulder beam saber hilts keep falling out and the back weapons don't actually fold. Instead you have to remove the front half from it's closed position, then reattach it in the open position. Articulation is good though. However, I had to search the shelves to get one with a good paint job as most of them had some problem with the blue paint on the center groin part. Graham
doodler7 Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 yep, just saw ep. 50 too ... whatever happened to shinn vs. kira? kira the "ultimate coordinator?" ... i don't know man ... i still think amuro is the strongest gundam pilot. do we have links here where members show off their gundam collections?
Twoducks Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 I personally love Victory and to this day consider it to be the best of the Gundam TV series, even better than the fan fav Zeta, which I consider highly overrated. I found Victory difficult to get into though, it took a good twenty eps. Also, i agree wholeheartedly that Zeta is waaay over-rated. Frankly, I thought it was pretty crappy - and to this day I don't get why it's considered to be so amazing. I much preferred Gundam X and even Seed over it. I will admit that Destiny was worse though, which given how much I was boosting the Seed universe is saying a LOT. 334030[/snapback] I’m liking Z thus far but there have been some boring parts. I specially enjoy the quality of the animation and characters. I prefer 08th Team and SEED’s story though. Turn A I’ve only seen a few episodes but find it a great shift in the Gundam formula. X after three episodes looks really fun and V has very good potential (four episodes on this one). The thing that pisses me of about Destiny is that I gave it the benefit of the doubt almost to the end, I even didn’t mind all that reused footage that much. But by the time you see that they’ve wasted two of the last 5 episodes on the Meer storyline, one of witch is mainly a recap, you brace yourself for impact (but not such a crappy ending). They could have pulled it of if they had scraped the last two recaps and had taken care of Meer faster. Ten whole episodes to finish the Logos thing and finally start and finish the Destiny Plan arc. More things happen in the 08th Team in ten episodes and they didn’t have 40 episodes to develop the characters and storyline. Those recaps tried to give some insight on some characters but they where really just fillers so they could have more time to write and animate. When you have so little time you must look at the whole. In the end Meer was the only character that got an “ending†in the sense that every other player of the story is left just hanging there.
Druna Skass Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 Bottom line, people should have gotten fired over Destiny, first on the To Fire list should be the writer.
Anubis Posted October 5, 2005 Author Posted October 5, 2005 Here's some pics of the HCM Pro Force Impulse I just got. I'm hoping Destiny will arrive tomorrow. This is the last Destiny money I'm planning on spending outside of an HCM Pro Gouf, if they make one. I might consider the other HCM Pro Zakus too, but we'll see. I already cancelled my HCM Pro Strike Freedom pre-order. The Impulse wasn't bad. I still think it's neat the thing still transforms despit the small size. Decent detail. I'm sre it's because of the leg flyer mechanism, but the legs aren't as stable as usual. Also, the left arm with the shield is real loose at the tricep rotator. Have to brace the shield against the shoulder for it to hold pose, but that's the only QC complaint this time. As with Destiny's half-assed nature in general, the detail does also seem half-assed compared to the UC HCM Pros. No extra markings or anything, just a regular paint job. Not as clean a paint job as the UC's either. The detail that's there isn't bad though, and the Force Sillouette has the flap lines and everything, so that looks real good. Comes with the Sillouette flyer too which is nice. I'm hoping the Destiny isn't a dud and the joints are the usual quality. I'll pose it with the big sword and beam shield. I would still love to see a GQ Destiny Gundam. Anyway here are the Force Impulse pics.
Keith Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 yep, just saw ep. 50 too ... whatever happened to shinn vs. kira?kira the "ultimate coordinator?" ... i don't know man ... i still think amuro is the strongest gundam pilot. 334039[/snapback] I don't know about that, I always thought Kamille was the strongest, hell, completely disabled, he through sheer power of will managed to awaken Judau's Newtype abilities, and Judau was one of the sh!ttiest gundam pilots ever!
Bob_Coffee Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 First of all, i want the time i spent watching everything past episode 14 back. Destiny went to the Sh!tter, and what glimmers of hope you can see throughout the recrap fest are simply pooped on in the last ep. the only smile i got out of the last two eps, was when Mwu busted out the beam shield, and thats only cause it reminded me of the Nu Gundam. simply put, Fukada, Morosawa, and nearly anyone involved in this series shouldnt touch gundam for a very very very very long time. Bandai should really really use some of those spare money hats laying around,and get Tomino or the people behind 08th MS team to finsh off the CE stuff, secondly a new staff should be commisioned to make 3 destiny movies, to pick up the crap fukada and co left behind and make it somewhat cohessive and entertaining. If tomino can make a new ending for zeta(as evidenced by comments made when the zeta movie trilogy was anounced), by god another staff should be able to make movies to clean up the mess destiny turned out to be, first starting with rewriting everything that happened past ep 10. I think the Cosmic era has enough room,and potential for a good series, with the right staff of cource. I still hope for a new UC series... Sentnel, Crossbone or Gaia Gear Animated would be nice. As for newtypes, i would say overall Kamille is second. Amuro is still the most powerful in my book as far as newtype powers go, CCA should be enough evidence of that. That being said i would like to know what happened to Kamille Post ZZ, and why he wasnt fighting aside londo bell in CCA.
Keith Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 As for newtypes, i would say overall Kamille is second. Amuro is still the most powerful in my book as far as newtype powers go, CCA should be enough evidence of that. That being said i would like to know what happened to Kamille Post ZZ, and why he wasnt fighting aside londo bell in CCA. 334071[/snapback] Meh, Kamille could have moved Axis AND survived doing it!
Seven Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 We've all had this discussion before but there's really two scales to judge on and not one. Who is the better pilot and who is the more powerful Newtype. Amuro is probably the better pilot, but Camille or Scirocco were more powerful Newtypes. With Kira, well you can't even being to talk about it since it's too inconsistent and SEED mode was never even explained. I wouldn't even know where to begin to untangle the jumble of the relationship between SEED factor, Newtype ability, and piloting ability since they never really explained the first two very coherently.
kalvasflam Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 (edited) 0080 wasn't bad, and neither was 08th MS team. 333960[/snapback] Not bad?!!! They were fricken excellent! Along with CCA, they are the best the Gundam franchise has to offer IMO. Certainly better than the pile of Poo Destiny turned into. Graham 334017[/snapback] Oh yeah, CCA, and I guess 0083. They weren't too bad either. I think at least a little better than GSD. You know, going into UC, Amuro vs Kamille would've been a dream match. It's not at all clear who would win. I know both are probably better than Char, but the truth of the matter is that Char is far more a leader than a front line ace pilot. I'm not much of a Nu Gundam fan, but I always loved Sazabi, now, that was an MS. Quebley and the O were other favorites of mine in UC. I would love to have seen the love child of the two, the O with a set of funnels. Hmm, I guess actually, that's Sazabi. Never mind. As for GSD, the more rabid element of Gundam fans only have themselves to blame as far as how GSD turned out. As early as the mid 20s you could see that GSD was turning into a crapfest with more and more old Seed, and less of the new characters. And the storyline started seriously degenerating, the first sign is the constant whining about Orb, how powerful it is and so forth, how noble, blah blah blah. If it's so powerful, why did Cagalli feel so constrained by EA's threat. If it was so noble, why did all those officers decide on a suicidal way of showing their lack of intelligence? (oops, rhetorical question there) Yet, through it all, most of the fans continued to support this show, they kept hoping it'd get better even as they defended their favorite Seed characters in ways that were beyond logic. I think that was the case all the way throughout the series until about episode 45 or so when a majority started thinking GSD was POS, but by then, it was too late. Now people want to blame Fukuda for his idiocy, meh, you reap what you sow I say. Edited October 5, 2005 by kalvasflam
aaajin Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 MORE HCM pro DESTINY <---click here ...cant wait to get mine
Seven Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 You know, going into UC, Amuro vs Kamille would've been a dream match. It's not at all clear who would win. I know both are probably better than Char, but the truth of the matter is that Char is far more a leader than a front line ace pilot. Amuro would eat Camille alive. The guy had long military pilot training and had a long time to master his newtype abilities. Camille is still a relative rookie by the end of Zeta in comparison to Amuro or Char. The other thing is Amuro and Char are probably a lot more knowledgeable in combat tactics, while usually Bright or Emma just ordered Camille here and there and told him to shoot.
Druna Skass Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 I still say guys like Shiro and Kou were the best Gundam pilots. They didn't need Newtype abilites to get the job done.
kalvasflam Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 I still say guys like Shiro and Kou were the best Gundam pilots. They didn't need Newtype abilites to get the job done. 334175[/snapback] You really can't class them in the same categories as newtypes. But my personal favorite was either Norris or Gato. Again, difficult to compare since both typically piloted Zeon suits, and if Norris had a gundam, he probably would be a terror, look at what he did with that one Gouf. If he was truly interested in whacking the 08th team, I think he could've done it, but he knew what his mission was, so he did that instead. Gato is probably the best of the lot though, he took essentially an artillery gundam (with a broken arm at that) and came out even against a gundam that specialized in direct MS combat. You can see how he was beating the stuffings out of Kou at their final fight with the Zeon mobile armor, even though you could argue that GP-03 was a better mobile armor.
sabretooth Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 all that newtype crap is weak and really pisses the hell out of me, 0083 stardust memory- no newtype, 08th ms team no newtype, 0080 war in a pocket no new type and these are some of the more popular ones... wannabes well menttal powers does not a good show make.
hevangel2 Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 I think the guy in 08th MS team is the best pilot. Other guys maybe the best "gundam" pilot, but they all rely hand to the supermacy of their gundam. If they were given a ball to fight against a Hi-Zaku, even Camille would be long dead. The F91 guy in Crossbone gundam is probably the best gundam pilot + commander. Char isn't a great pilot nor a commander to begin with, and the rest are purely pilots.
Black Valkyrie Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 Look at also Gundam-X pilots : Garrod, Roybe and Witz they fight well and they are not Newtypes, even if the series has`em.
Seven Posted October 6, 2005 Posted October 6, 2005 all that newtype crap is weak and really pisses the hell out of me, 0083 stardust memory- no newtype, 08th ms team no newtype, 0080 war in a pocket no new type and these are some of the more popular ones...wannabes well menttal powers does not a good show make. 334191[/snapback] That's like criticizing Star Wars for having "The Force". Gundam productions without newtypes are possible and done, but Gundam was conceived around the whole Newtype phenomenon. Its a key concept of Gundam, just like mobile suits are.
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