Official Gundam Seed Destiny Thread

[Vince]

Cagalli is only shown at the beginning of the episode from what I understand with no lines. Meyrin and Luna don't meet face to face. Luna is still "with" Shinn even after he almost kills her(doesn't stop himself from attacking even when she jumps in front of Athrun to get Shinn to stop fighting). So it looks and sounds like he was willing to take them both out just to get to Athrun.

333164[/snapback]

The episode was just about getting Rey's, Luna's, Shinn's, Minerva's, Destiny Plan's, Dullindal's ass kicked (in that order). No room left for other stuff.

333172[/snapback]

So it really suck that much.. On the bright side, I don't think too many people will go into withdrawal after the show ended. Just hope they come out with some MG or PG soon .

[azrael]

You know, when Neumann rolls Archangel....it's over.

Despite this series' (many) shortcomings...I'm please Fukada did one thing:

Not quite but close enough. I take this as my 3 (sorta) limbs. I can sleep happy.

[Vince]

You know, when Neumann rolls Archangel....it's over.

Despite this series' (many) shortcomings...I'm please Fukada did one thing:

Not quite but close enough. I take this as my 3 (sorta) limbs. I can sleep happy.

333176[/snapback]

So who will be excited when Seed 3 come out -- if it does?

guess there will be no mecha show for a while.

[Anubis]

Shinn's Counterattack.

At least they didn't kill him or Luna. I would have put money on Luna dying. It does really piss me off that Justice and Freedom took no damage though. Even in the last show Freedom got beat up in the process. AA took a fair bit of damage from the Dominion. This is just stupid.

Did the Godwanna, despite being HUGE, have no real armament? For that size it should have had a couple superlasers or something. It should have been able to obliterate at least something.

This show could have been 3 times as good. It's still ok I guess. B-/C+. There were some merits to the show, but there were too many questionable decisions made that ruined it's full potential. Letdown after such a strong beginning. The writers should be ashamed of themselves.

I really do hope they make another show or OVA. With a new writing team. One more chance to do some decent closure, or at least a stong story. CE has a lot of room for good material, it just takes quality writers to do it properly.

Edited October 2, 2005 by Anubis

[azrael]

So who will be excited when Seed 3 come out -- if it does?

guess there will be no mecha show for a while.

333179[/snapback]

I don't know if there will be a 3rd Seed series at the moment. Fukada seemed quite tired going through Seed and Seed Destiny (according to an interview on Sunrise's site). It appears from that interview (from what I can gather), he was happy to take on Seed Destiny but realized (after the fact) he should have given it some time. He notes that juggling 3 main characters in GSD was not easy but it's done. * It also sounds like he wanted to do more with Neo/Mu but never got the chance.

Also, Yousuke Kabashima (Character and mecha animation director) hated the reuse of animation on the series (This is from a blog, that's suppose to be his**). You'll see his work in Mai-Otome.

*http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=718266&postcount=266

**http://forums.animeondvd.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1157769&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&vc=1

Edited October 2, 2005 by azrael

[Anubis]

It's cool that they at least acknowledge the short comings themselves. Maybe after this if they get another crack they can plan accordingly next time. A break would probably be good though.

[kensei]

If all they need is a break then by all means take one.

Gundam SEED series was my first Gundam series and I liked the Original. Even Destiny was awesome, but it got crapper as the show went on. I still love the mecha designs and music though.

If SEED three does come then hopefully they can deliver an excellent show.

[Markie Wylde]

Id like to see a SEED 3 but I think Fukuda should take a break before doing it. Maybe then the series will be as great as the first one. Look forward to the new Gundam series coming in 2006, SEED or not.

[Effect]

Reusing of scenes is so bad that Mwu/Neo's use of the dragoons ends with Kira's disabling (from when he first launched in Strike Freedom) and Mwu/Neo never cared about disabling anyone, even back in SEED he straight up killed those he was fighting against.

Also the same move with Rey fighting his dragoons while attached to his suit and Strike Freedom fliping away had to have been used at least three in as little as a few minutes.

Reused footage yeah but just thought I'd point this out.

[Anubis]

The reused footage in this show did get real annoying at times.

Color swapping the reused footage for new suit color schemes was even worse.

[azrael]

After re-reading the blog and the Fukada interview translations, running it through 2 computer translations, and reading several forums (including Mark Simmons' notes), the general vibe I'm getting is, they rushed it and it caught up with them. Yes, I know it was rushed watching the animation alone but I'm looking at this from the production standpoint. This is probably why I see "I'm tired" in both the Fukada interview and Kabashima's blog. I think it's best for the production staff if they just stayed away from doing more for at least 6 months after vol. 13 comes.

Kabashima's blog actually gives props to Fukada for his work (sounds like he understood Fukada's stress). But he has less than spectacular words for Fukada's wife, Chiaki Morosawa (Script writer for GSD). It sounds like she's turned in work late on a few occasions and the well-known comment, she can't write. It also seems that they (animators) had to recut scenes at the last minute and that it really frustrated him (he's complaining about the production circumstances as oppose to the plot).

[Anubis]

Making crap up as you go along is no way to make a series. Write the entire damn plot first and then you can properly figure out how to fit the stuff you want to in the space you have. It obvious in this show, even more so than the first show, that there was a lot more that was supposed to be in there, but because the writers WASTED too much time with excess there was no room left for the rest of what should have been there. The sheel level of plot holes in this series is nuts.

Come on,

In 50 episodes, there was not ONE mention of SEED Factor in the entire series.

It's painfully obvious there was a lot of stuff left to do but they ran out of episodes.

The writers need to be banned from gundam, and any long running show from here on out. It's pretty bad when their own crew comments on how the writers suck. Franchises are buried this way, and many have been. Sunrise needs to wise up before the next gundam series.

Now, on a lighter note:

Let's make more fun of Athrun.

One positive about the end is: Shinn is alive, and he still gets the best girl. In a way, he still wins.

Edited October 2, 2005 by Anubis

[kensei]

Oh leave the Guy alone, he's now the star of the series!

[kensei]

Kabashima's blog actually gives props to Fukada for his work (sounds like he understood Fukada's stress). But he has less than spectacular words for Fukada's wife, Chiaki Morosawa (Script writer for GSD). It sounds like she's turned in work late on a few occasions and the well-known comment, she can't write. It also seems that they (animators) had to recut scenes at the last minute and that it really frustrated him (he's complaining about the production circumstances as oppose to the plot).

333225[/snapback]

Damn....I didn't know they had a couple working on the same series.

No wonder he found it stressful.

But a few rule for anyone makeing an series as long as Gundam:

1. figure out the whole damn plot first before you even start producing. Have a decent story set out, and if you need to make some changes, then make some.

2. No more than two recaps for the entire series!

3. Never ever use the same footage more than twice.

[Keith]

The solution is simple....Talk Tomino into doing the next series. Or better yet, talk him into doing 3 2 & a half hour movies (screw the series format, just do movies to start with) to tie things up.

I'm glad it's over, and it's been a long year, now let's have the HK's so I can see the damn thing!

[Freedomatrix]

I'm glad to see that there's some forums around here that will pwn Fukuda for the screwfest he presented us rather than yack about the content of the poorest ending in Gundam history.

In all honesty, the first few episodes of GSD had a plot. Then something that had to do with Shinn going SEED happened & the plot went straight to hell. After looking at this last episode for the 4th time, its like it could have been stretched into 5 episodes. The first 49 episodes were either slow as hell or episode 50 was fast as hell. Not only did they run out of episodes but they ran out of sanity too. If the Gundam community as a whole think this BS was a bust then it probably is, which is the understatement of the year.

I gave you your sharks Fukuda, all you have to do is dive right in & maybe you can bring your craptacular writer wife with you

[Seven]

Wow after watching both SEED series, I have to say that Destiny was utter crap. I was holding my opinion until it finished and now I can finally say that the series was a failure. It's the ZZ of the CE universe. I take that back, since ZZ at least poked fun at itself at times, while Destiny was overflowing with self important angst and drama.

The way it started looked like it was going to have so much promise then it just went into the toilet. Chiaki Morosawa should never ever be allowed to write again for even so much as obituaries. What an inane concept, create the plot on a weekly basis for a limited series. I could see that working for a series that has no end in sight, but for something as short as 50? Hell, the Macross team had to deal with possibly being cut at what, 26 episodes and it still run like a damn gem!

In retrospect, SEED had so much more impact than Destiny. At least I felt some sort of sorrow over poor Fllay's fate, but I could give a flying crap if anyone in Destiny ate a bullet. Even original characters from SEED were reduced to empty shells of their former selves who were around just to well, be around (Miriallia, Mwu, Murrue, Lacus, Andy).

[Keith]

How many licks does it take to become the worst script writer for a Gundam series.....

[azrael]

I don't know about Tomino...he'd kill everybody in the end, then we'd have no show left for a new beginning.

1.. figure out the whole damn plot first before you even start producing. Have a decent story set out, and if you need to make some changes, then make some.

2. No more than two recaps for the entire series!

3. Never ever use the same footage more than twice

1. This is what happens when you work on things back-to-back. They didn't even finish GS completely (they were practically working on the movie compilations as they were doing pre-production on GSD). They should have pushed GSD to Jan. 2005 instead of Oct. 2004. That would have helped the staff get a break. It would have helped the plot as well. It okay to adjust on the episode-to-episode level, but the plot or the general direction needs to be fleshed out prior to starting.

2. I actually liked the first 2 recaps ("Past" and "Fates"). They gave some insight into the characters. Then we got to "Refrain". That was just bad. Nothing new and nothing was done to help the characters. It was done to just give the animators more time. "Meer" was okay but it could have been done better and an episode or 2 earlier.

3. Tell that to the animators and the budget office...they'd kill ya. If you're gonna re-use footage, use it properly. Be consistent. We had Impulse changing to Strike, Freedom appearing instead of S-Freedom....I don't mind the re-use, just use it properly.

Edited October 2, 2005 by azrael

[kensei]

Okay, I take back a little of what I said for 2. as I think that the Meer ep was a good one and gave come closure to that character's life.

I suppose the animators would kill me if I said three.

[Panon]

Kabashima's blog actually gives props to Fukada for his work (sounds like he understood Fukada's stress). But he has less than spectacular words for Fukada's wife, Chiaki Morosawa (Script writer for GSD). It sounds like she's turned in work late on a few occasions and the well-known comment, she can't write. It also seems that they (animators) had to recut scenes at the last minute and that it really frustrated him (he's complaining about the production circumstances as oppose to the plot).

It about time someone noticed Fukuda isn't the devil who's personally responsible for every single woe the series has.

If anything, his directing stayed fairly solid, he just didn't have much to work with. Even some of the recap episodes were very well done as far as recaps go.

The production issues and the horrendous writing are just unforgivable though.

The solution is simple....Talk Tomino into doing the next series.

Ugh, no. Tomino is Gundam's past, not it's future.

Fortunately Tomino agrees.

[azrael]

Okay, I take back a little of what I said for 2. as I think that the Meer ep was a good one and gave come closure to that character's life.

I suppose the animators would kill me if I said three.

333265[/snapback]

"Meer" would have been a better episode if (obviously) it was done earlier by an episode or 2 and if there was a little more dialog from Lacus about Meer. When Lacus cries on Kira's shoulder, I get the idea but maybe a few lines would help add to the emotion of the scene. It was a good ep, but the timing just felt off.

The only way you would get #3 is if you A) make the series shorter by half or B) give more time between production of episodes (I imagine production of each episode would last about 2-2.5 weeks before they have to head into post-production, so if you want no reuse, make it 3-4 weeks/episode) or C) This is kinda B, Part II, but air each episode at 2-per-month (like GitS:SAC). But as I said, re-use can be used, if done properly.

[azrael]

It about time someone noticed Fukuda isn't the devil who's personally responsible for every single woe the series has.

If anything, his directing stayed fairly solid, he just didn't have much to work with. Even some of the recap episodes were very well done as far as recaps go.

The production issues and the horrendous writing are just unforgivable though.

333269[/snapback]

I don't blame Fukada for GSD (as much). For Fukada, it's a hindsight problem. Simple as that. From what I've heard, Cyber Formula GPX turned out fine. GS went smoothly. Then we got to GSD and the writing just...sucked, for a lack of better word.

[Keith]

Considering Tomino did an awesome job with Turn A a few years ago, I think he still has the potential to be Gundam's future as well. All the best the franchise has to offer was under him (0079, Zeta, Victory, CCA, Turn A).

[Vince]

Shinn's Counterattack.

At least they didn't kill him or Luna.  I would have put money on Luna dying. It does really piss me off that Justice and Freedom took no damage though.  Even in the last show Freedom got beat up in the process.  AA took a fair bit of damage from the Dominion.  This is just stupid.

Did the Godwanna, despite being HUGE, have no real armament?  For that size it should have had a couple superlasers or something.  It should have been able to obliterate at least something.

This show could have been 3 times as good.  It's still ok I guess.  B-/C+.  There were some merits to the show, but there were too many questionable decisions made that ruined it's full potential.  Letdown after such a strong beginning.  The writers should be ashamed of themselves.

I really do hope they make another show or OVA.  With a new writing team.  One more chance to do some decent closure, or at least a stong story.  CE has a lot of room for good material, it just takes quality writers to do it properly.

333185[/snapback]

I agree of what you say, the colsure in the series is for Meer, and it wasn't even properly done. None of the characters and their relationships has any closure, maybe excepts Shin and Luna (??). I don't know, it started out like a Gundam series, and ended like a gaint robot show want to be.

I wonder what will be on that 40 minutes special? I hope it give some decent closures.

Man I think I'm too old for this crap.

[Twoducks]

Well, Fukada did get me to watch SEED after seeing a few episodes of Destiny and then get into all the clasic Gundam stuff by Tomino.

Too bad money and time were the main things responsible for losing all the potential Destiny had.

If they made a third part, who would be the bad guys?

There's little Atlantic Federation left, no Logos, Zaft has gotten it's ass kicked by two ships, so who's left? Orb? They are now the dominat power. All hail Cagalli

The only thing left is to have another faction made out of forces that wanted the Destiny Plan (Shinn included).

What ever they do (Astray, UC series...) let the team responsible for it be rested.

[Effect]

You can't say there is no Atlantic Federation left. The AF was never seen being attacked on their land. Just the Earth Alliance space fleet was seen being destoryed. There is more to the EA then the Atlantic Federation. Just thought I'd comment on that. Cause hereing how there is no AF is just so damn annoying cause there is nothing to even suggest that in the series even though Fukuda and wife tried their best to screw over the EA.

[Seven]

Like it matters anyways, the crappy series has officially left the anus and been flushed down into the sewer. AF or no AF, maybe if we don't talk about it, Fukuda won't get any funny ideas about sequels.

[Effect]

True it doesn't matter anymore but spreading misinformation when it can be helped is a thing that gets to me.

I wonder though if the manga will take advantage to the series being over and do things differently in the time it has left instead of following SEED Destiny storyline like it has been doing. It has a chance of turning out a LOT better then it's anime counterpart if things are changed.

Edited October 2, 2005 by Effect

[Magnus]

I don't know who was ultimately responsible for this travesty, nor do I care - i'm just so disgusted right now. I cannot believe how quickly this series just degraded. It started off so well, I was so pumped for it, and now after having watched the last episode I can barely keep my bile down.

Kira, Athrun, Mwu and company getting out of it all without so much as a scratch, Rey shooting Gil at the end for no apparent reason, Talia deciding to die with Gil while leaving her young boy motherless....ridiculous.

But the ultimate insult is what happened with Shinn. Here's a character that was groomed to be the star headliner, given the most powerful MS yet, and he descends into stupidity, anger, and gets his MS completely owned by Athrun halfway through the show, leaving him sitting on the sidelines and crying by show's end. What the hell sort of Destiny is that??

I hope that if they ever make a Seed 3 they redeem his character, and do him justice. He started off so multi-layered and torn, and ended up being reduced to a secondary joke. Just terrible.

I'm so angry right now it's not funny. I feel betrayed by this show after investing so much time into it.

Edited October 2, 2005 by Magnus

[Seven]

Amazing. 62 out of 142 members at the Animesuki forums have rated GSD as deserving of 7/10 or higher currently. These must be the same people that fund Paul WS Anderson and Uwe Boll everytime they make a movie.

[Anubis]

That ending was pathetic. Just watched the Hiro version. Both superweapons went down way too easily. The MS fights ended too quick and simple. The Minerva went down too easy. Yzak and Dearka a;so commited treason the moment Eternal showed up.

The final travesty: Rey changing his mind at the last minute, as if anything Kira could have said should have changed Rey's mind. That was pure mediocrity. Rey went there to shoot Kira in the back of the head, and shoots Dullindal? WTF.

I am not happy. This was a BS ending. No resolution except for ending the fight. You're left with "what now?" At least Shinn and Luna are alive thankfully. All 3 Zaft Gundams are salvageable as well.

The treatment of Shinn was disgraceful. They took any potential he had in the beginning and squandered it, and then do this as a final insult.

If Orb falls the world is lost? Who cares about Orb?

If the EA went down, and went down hard, how in the bloody hell would Orb be able to save the day?

Wait...never mind, they just did. The bulk of Zaft couldn't stop a few traitor ships, remnant EA ships, a handful of Orb vessels, the Eternal and Archangel.

The Messiah was covered in beam shields, where did those go when Kira started attacking it? The first genesis was phase shifted and anti-beam protected. Why wasn't this one?

At least we didn't have to listen to Cagalli's crap in this episode. Just everyone else's.

Very disappointing ending.

Edited October 2, 2005 by Anubis

[macplus]

What a POS series, really bad in every fu...ing respect, I wonder if Fukuda's wife was involved with Macross 7...bleh... Bring Tomino for the next series, he would surely know how to give Shinn the miserable ending he deserves. More importanlty get that stupid Kunio Okawara out of the design team, this guy still plays with dolls and hasn't learned anything since the days he made 0079.

[Druna Skass]

Crappy ending for a crappy series. There are so many things I can piss and moan about, but I just don't have the enery or patience to really go off on this. Though I would look forward to a third SEED if it meant Fukuda's wife and Okawara were told to f*ck off.

Destiny is a perfect example of how to run a potentialy great series into the ground.

Edited October 3, 2005 by Druna Skass

[Hikuro]

The show could have and should have been better than this, they were doing fine in the beginning till that recap crap went into effect.

Fukuda and Okawara need to apologize to the fans and step down from working on any potential Gundam series and let Tomino back into the spot light.

Just about every Gundam show he's done had a great success rating and has a huge amount of fans in the process. We can diffenetly see that in the Zeta movies being sold out when tickets go up.