Official Gundam Seed Destiny Thread

[Atheonyirh]

Jona = Owned.

320100[/snapback]

He doesn't deserve a quick death. What he does deserve is more punishment from Cagalli.

320168[/snapback]

Atleast he got the Bright Noah Treatment from Cagalli before he died.

[Seven]

Hmm I will agree that Kira would make an awesome "Bad Guy" but with his personalty the way it is now, I dont think that would happen without a major event or two in his life.

He may as well be a bad guy now, because he, his friends and their precious Orb sure as hell aren't 'good guys'.

320212[/snapback]

huh? what you mean?

320232[/snapback]

I think what Panon is saying is that its not like Kira and the Archangel crew are exactly making the situation better. Here you have two factions fighting each other and neither is exactly right or wrong, just political differences and personal agendas. Then you have an unstable element like the Archangel just getting involved in every battle and throwing the whole conflict into further chaos. While they have their own point of view and are certainly idealistic (to almost a fault), their appearances have a negative effect on either side and just end up increasing casualties on both sides.

For much of the war, the Archangel has been getting involved and has not made any public denouncement of the war or made their intentions clear to the civilians or military, so to everyone else it just looks like they're a rogue unit that needs to be put down.

Edited August 14, 2005 by Seven

[kalvasflam]

Hmm I will agree that Kira would make an awesome "Bad Guy" but with his personalty the way it is now, I dont think that would happen without a major event or two in his life. Like AA, Eternal, Athrun, Lacus, and Cagali being killed. Than he might turn into a "bad guy". I believe you had something similar to that twist in your version of Destiny, which I actually liked. 

If they killed Lacus I would probably not watch anymore.....

320202[/snapback]

Kira would make a awesome bad guy lackey, I need to clarify it a little, because if you look at Kira, he isn't a leader by any definition of the word, he is a great follower. So, he'd make a great semi final boss. Lacus on the other hand makes the best bad guy around.

It'll be a major first, if they turned Lacus into the chief bad guy and Kira into her chief bootlicking enforcer. Think about it, she is a people person, she has a loyal following with a ridiculously message about peace that is not only impractical but make no real sense. If you look, she has followers in the Clyne faction, she probably has Orb in her pocket now that Cagalli is in charge (Face it, Cagalli isn't actually in the running for genius of the year), and she is just plain old dangerous.

You can imagine if they have a third Seed series where Lacus goes over the edge, and takes Kira with him. She wants peace by any means. i.e. TOTAL DISARMAMENT, and she forces it on people, those who don't agree, she sends in Kira and her DOM troopers to pacify them. heh heh, makes nice fiction don't you think?

[Legend of TSXer]

she sends in Kira and her DOM troopers to pacify them.

320280[/snapback]

LOL Man that would be awesome. Kira- "For Lacus-sama!" DOM Trio -"Lacus-SAMA!"

Hehe my idea of a Third Seed series would be different. Probably wont fit in anyway this is going to be ended. Ohh wells Im not a writer.....

[kalvasflam]

LOL Man that would be awesome. Kira- "For Lacus-sama!" DOM Trio -"Lacus-SAMA!"

Hehe my idea of a Third Seed series would be different. Probably wont fit in anyway this is going to be ended.    Ohh wells Im not a writer.....

320286[/snapback]

By that time, it would be the DOM three thousand. You know, the iron fist in the velvet glove type. I mean come on, how can people not see it, Lacus is pure evil, that cute little look and a singer at that who loves children, and then on the other hand, she has a cult following with essentially lots of specialized firepower and a technology base in Orb and a military grade factory in space. She's evil I tell you. EVIL. (for further proof, see secret cave hide outs all around Orb)

BTW, Seven, nicely put, Kira and company are what you'd call agents of chaos. Heh heh.

Edited August 14, 2005 by kalvasflam

[Fort Max]

I like this idea, let's sell it to Fukuda.

[F360°]

Hmm I will agree that Kira would make an awesome "Bad Guy" but with his personalty the way it is now, I dont think that would happen without a major event or two in his life.

He may as well be a bad guy now, because he, his friends and their precious Orb sure as hell aren't 'good guys'.

320212[/snapback]

huh? what you mean?

320232[/snapback]

I think what Panon is saying is that its not like Kira and the Archangel crew are exactly making the situation better. Here you have two factions fighting each other and neither is exactly right or wrong, just political differences and personal agendas. Then you have an unstable element like the Archangel just getting involved in every battle and throwing the whole conflict into further chaos. While they have their own point of view and are certainly idealistic (to almost a fault), their appearances have a negative effect on either side and just end up increasing casualties on both sides.

For much of the war, the Archangel has been getting involved and has not made any public denouncement of the war or made their intentions clear to the civilians or military, so to everyone else it just looks like they're a rogue unit that needs to be put down.

320248[/snapback]

If that's what Pannon means by AA and Orb aren't "good guys" then that's exactly what I don't get. I guess I can use the saying the lesser or 2 evil or something like that. Which Zaft is even less "good guy then "AA".

As for involvement of AA, I seem to recall it was the Chairman of Zaft that send some Black Ops to kill Lacus in the first place along with attacking and trying to kill everyone else that's with her. They lost their Home because of what the Zaft did. So you can't blame AA for getting involve after that since they were originally doing nothing and still Zaft sents black ops to put them to sleep. The Chair dragged them in this war. And besides who started this war in the first place? it was Zaft and EAF, and in the WORLD WAR anyone can get involve if they want to.

And AA really got involve with only 1 battle that did more harm to Zaft than good. and that was the first one. the second one they safed Minvera. And that was it.

The third one with Destory was no longer consider intervene with battle. Destroy was killing millions, and they went to stop it. It was simple as that. They got there even before Minvera. Both Zaft and AA's objectiver were the same and yet Shinn still attacked Freedom without stating his reasons, but Freedom and AA kept their cool and did not attack Zaft back.

After that while they are heading back to Orb, Zaft just issuse the order of "kill them all", no order to surrender, no options,, just plain kill them.

After that They trying to kill off Athrun and even Meyrin.

And then they try again to kill off Lacus in space

They even try to invade/attacked Orb just because of Yuna's borcasting, Zaft didn't even bother to contact Orb again. Zaft started a battle in areas with lots of Civilians. Zaft even gave Logos more time than Orb. And in the Logo's base battle, Zaft even gave Logo members a option to surrender which AA, Kira, Lacus, Athrun, and Meyrin never got ,it was a simple "if you're not with us, I want you dead"

If EAF, ZAFT, AA are all not "good guys"

If EAF is worse than Zaft and Zaft is even worse than AA, equals Zaft and EAF are less likely to be the better "good guys" than AA.

Edited August 14, 2005 by F360°

[Panon]

Kira and friends have spent the entire war protecting their own little clique at the expense of all others, even those on the right side of the conflict.

ZAFT had been fighting a defensive war against a force hell bent on genocide, yet on the assumption that ZAFT sent assassins to kill Lacus, Kira leapt to the conclusion that ZAFT is evil and untrustworthy, then proceeded to inflict heavy damage against any faction that crossed his path, no matter what they were doing or how many people it indirectly killed thanks to the chaos he provoked.

The orders to take out Freedom and the Archangel weren't bad things. They were both extremely dangerous rogue forces wandering the planet with no allegiance to anybody but themselves striking against whoever they pleased. Taking out Lacus isn't exactly a bad call either, since she just happens to be the head of another rogue faction, with hidden treaty violating nuclear powered mobile suits, battleships, weapons factories, and is busy stealing ZAFT technologies and weaponry for her own purposes. Purposes based on paranoia similar to Kira's - remember a couple of episodes ago, her explaination that ZAFT will turn against Orb because Orb will stand in the way of the Chairmans plans... except she actually said she didn't even know what he was doing other than vague new world order suspicions?

Lets not even mention the utterly insane leap Athrun took to "The Chairman is going to destroy the world!" based on the fact that the Chairman took out his best friend (that best friend who tore him to pieces not so long ago because his sister was upset!)

And now with this latest episode, in part because of their defense of Orb (notice Kira only opened fire on ZAFT, what happened to disarming both sides to end conflicts?) the greatest enemy of peace that exists has been allowed to escape into space, by the look of the next episode preview ready to launch another massive strike against innocent coordinator civilians.

If the 'Requiem' superweapon actually manages to hit PLANT, Orb and friends won't just have blood on their hands, they'll be up to their knees in it.

Dullandil is a schemer, and is likely not as benevolent as he may outwardly appear. He's looking a lot like a case of someone using some underhanded methods to achieve worthy purposes - ends justifying the means. You can add up what he's done; his rather machiavelian acts would be attempted assassination of Lacus, destruction of Freedom, destruction of Archangel (none of these pleasant, but not entirely unwarranted either), and military strikes against two locations offering safe haven to those responsible for orchestrating the current war. In the process, Natural/Coordinator tensions have been eased, the war between Earth and PLANT effectively ended, nations oppressed by the EA have been freed.

His actions and those of ZAFT thusfar have brought about results that serve the greater good much more than the old casts "War is bad, we want to save everyone, but people we personally care about are most important" approach which has quite literally achieved nothing.

[kalvasflam]

Kira and friends have spent the entire war protecting their own little clique at the expense of all others, even those on the right side of the conflict.

ZAFT had been fighting a defensive war against a force hell bent on genocide, yet on the assumption that ZAFT sent assassins to kill Lacus, Kira leapt to the conclusion that ZAFT is evil and untrustworthy, then proceeded to inflict heavy damage against any faction that crossed his path, no matter what they were doing or how many people it indirectly killed thanks to the chaos he provoked.

The orders to take out Freedom and the Archangel weren't bad things. They were both extremely dangerous rogue forces wandering the planet with no allegiance to anybody but themselves striking against whoever they pleased. Taking out Lacus isn't exactly a bad call either, since she just happens to be the head of another rogue faction, with hidden treaty violating nuclear powered mobile suits, battleships, weapons factories, and is busy stealing ZAFT technologies and weaponry for her own purposes. Purposes based on paranoia similar to Kira's - remember a couple of episodes ago, her explaination that ZAFT will turn against Orb because Orb will stand in the way of the Chairmans plans... except she actually said she didn't even know what he was doing other than vague new world order suspicions?

Lets not even mention the utterly insane leap Athrun took to "The Chairman is going to destroy the world!" based on the fact that the Chairman took out his best friend (that best friend who tore him to pieces not so long ago because his sister was upset!)

And now with this latest episode, in part because of their defense of Orb (notice Kira only opened fire on ZAFT, what happened to disarming both sides to end conflicts?) the greatest enemy of peace that exists has been allowed to escape into space, by the look of the next episode preview ready to launch another massive strike against innocent coordinator civilians.

If the 'Requiem' superweapon actually manages to hit PLANT, Orb and friends won't just have blood on their hands, they'll be up to their knees in it.

Dullandil is a schemer, and is likely not as benevolent as he may outwardly appear. He's looking a lot like a case of someone using some underhanded methods to achieve worthy purposes - ends justifying the means. You can add up what he's done; his rather machiavelian acts would be attempted assassination of Lacus, destruction of Freedom, destruction of Archangel (none of these pleasant, but not entirely unwarranted either), and military strikes against two locations offering safe haven to those responsible for orchestrating the current war. In the process, Natural/Coordinator tensions have been eased, the war between Earth and PLANT effectively ended, nations oppressed by the EA have been freed.

His actions and those of ZAFT thusfar have brought about results that serve the greater good much more than the old casts "War is bad, we want to save everyone, but people we personally care about are most important" approach which has quite literally achieved nothing.

320389[/snapback]

Just a little sarcasm, didn't you know Panon, it is so written that Kira and Lacus are good. They want peace after all, anyone who oppose them must be evil and therefore need to be ruthlessly suppressed with every possible weapon at hand.

I wonder if Kira and company will even realize when Jibril is out in space nuking people that they're at least a little responsible for it. No... more likely, Lacus will say after ZAFT is finished with EA that "Orb is next." After all, Orb, if people didn't know it yet, is the center of the universe.

[Druna Skass]

What is the political situation with the Alliance. All we hear is about the military and LOGOS. We never hear about the Atlantic or Eurasian goverments? It's like they're all run by some junta.

When I heard about the Destiny Plan and saw that episode about Gilbert's background. I'm fairly convinced this war isn't about peace and more has to do with his failed relationship with Talia. I remember reading something about the Destiny Plan having something to do with makeing everyone Naturals or something like that. And when Talia said she couldn't be with him because she wanted a kid, that seems to tie in togeather. The funny thing is if that is what the Destiny Plan is about then Gilbert and Djibril are after the same thing.

So obviously the way the world is right now, he feels it's wrong, you can't really blame him either. And he's doing what he thinks is nessesary to make it right. He doesn't really seem evil or power hungry. If anything he seems more like Solidus from Metal Gear Solid 2.

Edited August 15, 2005 by Druna Skass

[azrael]

The card you have to play with this is "Do the ends justify the means?"

[Druna Skass]

The card you have to play with this is "Do the ends justify the means?"

320406[/snapback]

Well right now we really can't say since we don't know the details of this Destiny Plan yet.

[F360°]

Kira and friends have spent the entire war protecting their own little clique at the expense of all others, even those on the right side of the conflict.

This line will fit more for Dilbert (chairman) or that Blue Cosmo leader than “Kira and Friendsâ€

ZAFT had been fighting a defensive war against a force hell bent on genocide, yet on the assumption that ZAFT sent assassins to kill Lacus, Kira leapt to the conclusion that ZAFT is evil and untrustworthy

Most of what you said has little base on the overall events and only on the extreme side of certain events that happened. Since why the heck does a person that’s on defensive war against a force hell bent on genocide goes out of his way to send Assassins to kill Lacus and her friends when they were not part of the Genocide team and is just living peacefully and quietly not involve in the war. He even created a fake Lacus. Kira’s Assumption was base on Zaft Black ops and Zaft mobile suits along with the fake Lacus, this assumption is also proven dead on correct later on, And because of that they were very cautious of Zaft. They did not say Zaft is EVIL.

, then proceeded to inflict heavy damage against any faction that crossed his path, no matter what they were doing or how many people it indirectly killed thanks to the chaos he provoked.

Once again Zaft and EAF would fit in this more so than “Kira and AAâ€

The orders to take out Freedom and the Archangel weren't bad things. They were both extremely dangerous rogue forces wandering the planet with no allegiance to anybody but themselves striking against whoever they pleased. Taking out Lacus isn't exactly a bad call either, since she just happens to be the head of another rogue faction, with hidden treaty violating nuclear powered mobile suits, battleships, weapons factories, and is busy stealing ZAFT technologies and weaponry for her own purposes. Purposes based on paranoia similar to Kira's - remember a couple of episodes ago, her explaination that ZAFT will turn against Orb because Orb will stand in the way of the Chairmans plans... except she actually said she didn't even know what he was doing other than vague new world order suspicions?

Ok, ok, so giving out a order to destory Freedom and AA without even trying to contact them after they helped you with taking out DESTORY and did not attack you and you just happen to Photoshop them out of it in your ZAFT NEWs Boardcast is a move that a “good guy†should make?? And all your reasoning for taking out Lacus means nothing when the Chairman is using a FAKE LACUS to help his cause. These are also the people that saved Plant 2 years ago.

Lets not even mention the utterly insane leap Athrun took to "The Chairman is going to destroy the world!" based on the fact that the Chairman took out his best friend (that best friend who tore him to pieces not so long ago because his sister was upset!)

Everyone knows that Athrun is not good with Words and that Shinn is not good at understanding them, when you add them together you’ll get those kind of sentences. But the truth was Zaft went out to get Athrun, Rey shot at Athrun with out warning and continue to do so, he also fire at Meyrin also. They want Athrun dead, and Athrun was not stupid enough to stay. Beside Athrun was still “Faith†at the time and he can do whatever he felt was right ( the chairman said so). So he can do whatever he wanted until the Chairman orders him to stop. He do not have to listen to Rey, Shin, or anyone else that ZAft. The Chairman gave permission to Athrun to do what he felt was right and Athrun is technically only under the Chairman’s command so until the Chairman himself tells Athrun to stop, anything he do will not consider disobey orders.

And now with this latest episode, in part because of their defense of Orb (notice Kira only opened fire on ZAFT, what happened to disarming both sides to end conflicts?) the greatest enemy of peace that exists has been allowed to escape into space, by the look of the next episode preview ready to launch another massive strike against innocent coordinator civilians.

If the 'Requiem' superweapon actually manages to hit PLANT, Orb and friends won't just have blood on their hands, they'll be up to their knees in it.

Hmm, perhaps it’s because ZAFT tried to kill AA and Kira awhile ago, they also try to kill Athrun, they also tried again to kill Lacus, and now they are attacking ORB before it’s supposed dead line to turn over the stupid Blue Cosmo leader. There is no longer any doubt that Zaft is out to get them so why can’t they fight them. Orb was not out to get them and is defending their country from getting invaded. So yeah it perfectly reasonable for them to do what did.

If Requiem superweapon actually manages to hit Plant it’s everyone fault, but it’s more of ZAft’s fault for letting Djbriel escape from Heavens base in the first place. There was no involvement of ORB, AA or anyone else in that Heaven’s base battle and Djbriel still got away. You can’t blame anyone but yourself.

Dullandil is a schemer, and is likely not as benevolent as he may outwardly appear. He's looking a lot like a case of someone using some underhanded methods to achieve worthy purposes - ends justifying the means. You can add up what he's done; his rather machiavelian acts would be attempted assassination of Lacus, destruction of Freedom, destruction of Archangel (none of these pleasant, but not entirely unwarranted either), and military strikes against two locations offering safe haven to those responsible for orchestrating the current war. In the process, Natural/Coordinator tensions have been eased, the war between Earth and PLANT effectively ended, nations oppressed by the EA have been freed.

His actions and those of ZAFT thusfar have brought about results that serve the greater good much more than the old casts "War is bad, we want to save everyone, but people we personally care about are most important" approach which has quite literally achieved nothing.

Sure enough the end justify the means but it’s not the end yet, therefore its not yet justifiy. And all this happy ending on your part is just assumption of what might happen in the future.

As of right now, ZAFT and EAF are shown to be more bad than AA. Therefore if AA ain’t “good guys†then ZAFT and EAF are even worse then that.

Edited August 15, 2005 by F360°

[kalvasflam]

The orders to take out Freedom and the Archangel weren't bad things. They were both extremely dangerous rogue forces wandering the planet with no allegiance to anybody but themselves striking against whoever they pleased. Taking out Lacus isn't exactly a bad call either, since she just happens to be the head of another rogue faction, with hidden treaty violating nuclear powered mobile suits, battleships, weapons factories, and is busy stealing ZAFT technologies and weaponry for her own purposes. Purposes based on paranoia similar to Kira's - remember a couple of episodes ago, her explaination that ZAFT will turn against Orb because Orb will stand in the way of the Chairmans plans... except she actually said she didn't even know what he was doing other than vague new world order suspicions?

Ok, ok, so giving out a order to destory Freedom and AA without even trying to contact them after they helped you with taking out DESTORY and did not attack you and you just happen to Photoshop them out of it in your ZAFT NEWs Boardcast is a move that a “good guy†should make?? And all your reasoning for taking out Lacus means nothing when the Chairman is using a FAKE LACUS to help his cause. These are also the people that saved Plant 2 years ago.

Let's parse that out shall we? Who fired the first shot, Freedom, attached to AA. They attacked Minerva essentially without warning. Can we agree on that? That alone is enough to justify counter attacking. I don't know about you, but do you recall Kira pleading with Minerva not to use the Tanhauser before the first shot? No. Then there was that incident when Kira started blasting away at Minerva's MS, Shinn, Athrun, Rey, during the second battle, granted, part of it was Shinn shooting at Cagalli, but there was already justification based on their first encounter. Again, all of ZAFT's actions after that point is a natural reaction. So, the order to destroy AA and Freedom was perfectly valid. The best thing you can say about AA and company is that they are a bunch of loose cannons out to destroy everyone. While that might be good if they were mainly pummeling your opponents, your opinion change very quickly if they started hurting you directly.

Let me put it this way, if I walked up to you, and for no apparent reason slugged you in the gut, are you going to want to talk to me or will you fight back? Remember, if you decide to talk to me, I might just slug you in the face.

Lets not even mention the utterly insane leap Athrun took to "The Chairman is going to destroy the world!" based on the fact that the Chairman took out his best friend (that best friend who tore him to pieces not so long ago because his sister was upset!)

Everyone knows that Athrun is not good with Words and that Shinn is not good at understanding them, when you add them together you’ll get those kind of sentences. But the truth was Zaft went out to get Athrun, Rey shot at Athrun with out warning and continue to do so, he also fire at Meyrin also. They want Athrun dead, and Athrun was not stupid enough to stay. Beside Athrun was still “Faith†at the time and he can do whatever he felt was right ( the chairman said so). So he can do whatever he wanted until the Chairman orders him to stop. He do not have to listen to Rey, Shin, or anyone else that ZAft. The Chairman gave permission to Athrun to do what he felt was right and Athrun is technically only under the Chairman’s command so until the Chairman himself tells Athrun to stop, anything he do will not consider disobey orders.

What does Rey or Meyrin have to do with Athrun's sudden change of mind? He took the insane leap of conclusion right after his buddy got shot down. Chairman is evil because he shot down my friend, because he has a fake Lacus (who as far as he could tell was promoting peace like the real one has been unable to do), because of the supposed assassination on the real Lacus (which doesn't directly link to the chairman). That's like seeing the sky is blue, knowing that the gravitational constant of the Earth is 9.8 m/s^2 and then coming up with E=mc^2. It makes no sense.

And now with this latest episode, in part because of their defense of Orb (notice Kira only opened fire on ZAFT, what happened to disarming both sides to end conflicts?) the greatest enemy of peace that exists has been allowed to escape into space, by the look of the next episode preview ready to launch another massive strike against innocent coordinator civilians.

If the 'Requiem' superweapon actually manages to hit PLANT, Orb and friends won't just have blood on their hands, they'll be up to their knees in it.

Hmm, perhaps it’s because ZAFT tried to kill AA and Kira awhile ago, they also try to kill Athrun, they also tried again to kill Lacus, and now they are attacking ORB before it’s supposed dead line to turn over the stupid Blue Cosmo leader. There is no longer any doubt that Zaft is out to get them so why can’t they fight them. Orb was not out to get them and is defending their country from getting invaded. So yeah it perfectly reasonable for them to do what did.

If Requiem superweapon actually manages to hit Plant it’s everyone fault, but it’s more of ZAft’s fault for letting Djbriel escape from Heavens base in the first place. There was no involvement of ORB, AA or anyone else in that Heaven’s base battle and Djbriel still got away. You can’t blame anyone but yourself.

Of course ZAFT is out to get them (AA and Orb), but keep in mind, Orb isn't the main objective. As for attacking Orb, let's see the reasons why:

1. Orb is part of EA

2. Orb is harboring Jibril (Jibril being the primary objective of ZAFT)

3. AA has launched unprovoked attack on ZAFT on multiple occasions including hijack of ZAFT shuttle.

4. AA is currently supporting Orb which is a part of the Alliance. (Did you hear anyone in Orb renouncing their affiliation with the Alliance during the fight?)

From all appearences, AA and company went from dangerous rogues to becoming soliders of Jibril's EA. Hmmm, I think that's a good enough reason to attack them.

By the way, what deadline are you talking about? And besides, Yuna's actions made it perfectly clear that Orb was out to lie their asses off. "We don't know this Jibril person, he said." Did you see Orb military launch a coup to topple the liars? No. Was there any indication during the entire fight that Orb changed their mind? Not until the absolute end when two Murasames tried to follow after Jibril, and that was questionable because you didn't see them firing on the shuttle, for all you know, they could've been an escort for Jibril.

The fact that Talia stoppped the attack is indicative of the fact that ZAFT has a primary objective, and it isn't Orb, which is essentially just a sideshow at the moment.

As for the Requime, here is the argument, ZAFT tried to apprehend Jibril, and failed. Note, they tried at least. On the surface of it, there isn't any evidence that Orb tried at all, on the contrary, the evidence is that Orb tried to shelter him, and helped him escape. (i.e. didn't hand him over, resisted ZAFT attempt to apprehend him) Cagalli's message afterwards can be construed as a clumsy denial after the fact, hoping to spare Orb from further attacks, it's called having your cake (help Jibril to escape) and eating it too (keeping Orb from getting attacked again). That's how it looks to someone who doesn't have an omniscent view of things.

Your analogy if I break it down is this: if there was a criminal, you harbored him knowingly, then he murders someone, and you turned around and say to the judge: "but it's not my fault that the cops didn't catch this guy the first time, I'm blameless." Do you think any rational judge would accept that argument?

Edited August 15, 2005 by kalvasflam

[kalvasflam]

The card you have to play with this is "Do the ends justify the means?"

320406[/snapback]

Very good point, did Kira and AA's ends justified their means to getting to those ends? The answer is yes, if their ends were peace my way or you get ruthlessly suppressed by my war machines.

[azrael]

This preview for next week brings a few things which haven't been mentioned. From SEED Club Mobile/Char's Blog (Spoilers, highlight to read)

The switch from Meer's broadcast calling for peace to the real Lacus led to uproar among the people of every nation. Confusion ran throughout the crew of Minerva, and Shinn was likewise disturbed. However, Rey informed Shinn that he should think more about Athrun's participation in the previous battle in a mobile suit. Shinn and Lunamaria were unable to hide their shock. Meanwhile, Dullandal is surprisingly kind to Meer, bewildered by the appearance of the real Lacus, and they ride a shuttle together. Ahead of them was the new-model space-fortress "Messiah". And on the other side of the moon, a huge weapon rumbles into view...

Comments:

-When something is called "Messiah", that can't be good.

-Rey is working overtime on the little Sith lord. Guess the Dark side does cloud everything.

[kalvasflam]

If Meer was calling for peace, I wonder what Lacus is calling for. If she is calling for peace too, wouldn't that just become redundant?

Meer: Peace I say, we must have peace.

Lacus: Yes, peace, but only because I say so, that one is a fake, I'm the only one qualified to talk about peace. I have it trademarked and patented, therefore I have a monopoly on peace. They're not qualified, i.e. they are like the generic versions of the real thing, therefore, we should make war on them, and after they're utterly destroyed, we can have PEACE. Real Peace that is trademarked and patented.

Edited August 15, 2005 by kalvasflam

[Anubis]

My thing for the last episode is Zaft had to have known that there was a chance Djibril would hav escaped Orb during the attack, so why wasn't anything in orbit waiting just in case. They could have intercepted the shuttle easily. That was kind of boneheaded.

Also, the Chairman could go on TV and still explain Meer. It's easy, he could use the same excuse he gave Athrun. It would still be a PR mess, but a recoverable one. Lacus has a very wide appeal to the people. He needed Lacus's voice to help calm the people after the nuclear assault on Plant, and since she was nowhere to be seen, and no way to reach her, he called on Meer to lend support. He could apologize for the deception, and note the good that she did for general morale. He could also again point out the the REAL Lacus was NOWHERE to be seen as if abandoning them. That could also send a ripple through Plant if in the wake of that crisis their beloved Lacus abandoned them. Which she in fact did. Going to Plant to help did not even register as an idea.

It won't happen, but it would be an interesting twist would be to have the colony drop staged by her to begin with, and now she's in a position to snatch up what Dullindal is taking through his own game. No one said yet for sure that Dullindal did it, but the assumption is there since Dullindal is pulling a Palpatine.

It would be interesting, but she's the primary heroine of the show, so no.

I am a bit peeved at how Mwu will simply be forgiven. He may have some moral regrets about some of the stuff he did but he'll settle right into his new good guy role with no repurcussions it seems. There's no time to go through a big moral dilemma though anyway I guess.

I do like how he reached out to the Murrue though. Some support and a couple sorties might get him back fully.

I don't think Cagalli should go into space this time. She shouldn't since she just resolidified her power and has to work at Orb to get everything back to where it should be. It would suck for Mwu not to get Dragoons again, but if he takes the Akatsuki he could at least put it to far better use than Cagalli was able to. He could even use the same from when he told her he was going to pilot the Strike. The Akatsuki should have very nice defense against Dragoons as well so he could help fight Rey effectively.

Edited August 15, 2005 by Anubis

[kalvasflam]

Anubis,

All you can do now is chalk it up to bad story writing. I guess if the whole idea is to write a confusing story where there is no good guy, and confusing the hell out of your audience they kind of succeeded.

Too bad, such a promising show ended up in a gutter like this.

Lacus, Mwu, etc are just the symptoms. They really should've stayed away from the GS characters, I think more than anything else, those are what really killed Seed as a series. The inevitable pull of the old stuff. Sad.....

But that will not hurt their model sales at all.

[Anubis]

Anubis,

All you can do now is chalk it up to bad story writing.  I guess if the whole idea is to write a confusing story where there is no good guy, and confusing the hell out of your audience they kind of succeeded. 

Too bad, such a promising show ended up in a gutter like this.

Lacus, Mwu, etc are just the symptoms.  They really should've stayed away from the GS characters, I think more than anything else, those are what really killed Seed as a series.  The inevitable pull of the old stuff.  Sad.....     

But that will not hurt their model sales at all.

320561[/snapback]

That is quite true actually.

When did the show derail: When they brought Kira and the AA back in, and instantly thrust them into being main characters again as well.

When it was just Cagalli and Athrun it was fine, in fact it rocked. Cameo appearances from the GS cast would have been preferred, and let the show stay with the Minerva. Having to share the spotlight with the AA took a lot out of the show, and mandated dragging the Orb arcs too far, where there was potential to do much more.

If they had left Freedom destroyed and gave Kira a lesser role other things could have fleshed out better. Athrun as the recurring main character of this show was all it needed.

But oh well, it's still a good show. Could have been better, but the same could be said for the first show. This show at least has gotten more done in it's timespan than GS did. I just hope they tie up enough loose ends this time before it finishes, which I'm afraid might not happen again given the current pattern and how much has to be done still.

[F360°]

Let's parse that out shall we?  Who fired the first shot, Freedom, attached to AA.  They attacked Minerva essentially without warning.  Can we agree on that?  That alone is enough to justify counter attacking.  I don't know about you, but do you recall Kira pleading with Minerva not to use the Tanhauser before the first shot?  No.  Then there was that incident when Kira started blasting away at Minerva's MS, Shinn, Athrun, Rey, during the second battle, granted, part of it was Shinn shooting at Cagalli, but there was already justification based on their first encounter.  Again, all of ZAFT's actions after that point is a natural reaction.  So, the order to destroy AA and Freedom was perfectly valid.  The best thing you can say about AA and company is that they are a bunch of loose cannons out to destroy everyone.  While that might be good if they were mainly pummeling your opponents, your opinion change very quickly if they started hurting you directly.

Let me put it this way, if I walked up to you, and for no apparent reason slugged you in the gut, are you going to want to talk to me or will you fight back?  Remember, if you decide to talk to me, I might just slug you in the face. 

So your saying who make the first strike? let's see, do a team of Zaft Special Ops count? They are from ZAft and they make the first strike since Kira, Lacus and everyone was not involve in the war at the time and is just living peacefully.

As for the Minvera's encounter,, yup Kira and AA hit them first. But you are forgetting the first thing that Kira did at their 2nd encounter.,, Kira saved the Minvera from DOOM. That adds lots of credit don't you think? Any kind of posiable team work was killed off by Shinn when he fires at Cagalli. Sure enough this was the side that attacked you in the previous battle, but they just saved your mother ship and without it all Gundams will not beable to recharge. After that they no longer attacked you, and is even doing your job of Stopping EAF DESTROY.

The order to destroy AA and Freedom was perfectly valid only if they were issuse right after their first encounter. It's no longer perfectly valid after they saved your ass and help you do your job of stopping EAF Destory. Especially when you know they are not out to kill you, as that was a tactic used to take down freedom.

Justification changes over time, you can't ignore all the other encouters and just say they shot me in my first encounter and even though they saved me, and help me with my job and didn't really try to kill me, it's still justifity to kill them because they hit me first.

Your example is also just for the first Minvera and AA encounter, there was nothing about the 2nd or 3rd one. Which only explains why it's Justifiy for a Order to destory AA and Freedom right after their first encounter, which I agree. But it does not show any Justification for giving the same order when they have already stopped attacking your and is helping you and then working with you.

What does Rey or Meyrin have to do with Athrun's sudden change of mind?  He took the insane leap of conclusion right after his buddy got shot down.  Chairman is evil because he shot down my friend, because he has a fake Lacus (who as far as he could tell was promoting peace like the real one has been unable to do), because of the supposed assassination on the real Lacus (which doesn't directly link to the chairman).  That's like seeing the sky is blue, knowing that the gravitational constant of the Earth is 9.8 m/s^2 and then coming up with E=mc^2.  It makes no sense.

if Athrun already came to a conclusion just because Kira was shot down and because the Chairman has a fake Lacus then why didn't he started his escape way before Meer and the the MP shows up at his door. he didn't have a plan either.. so no Athrun did not came to any solid Conclusions yet until Meer tells Athrun what's going on along with MPs knocking on his door, and Rey shooting to kill him and have no care for Meyrin, a suppose friend. As for your example at the end its just way out there, too much for my simple mind to handle.

Of course ZAFT is out to get them (AA and Orb), but keep in mind, Orb isn't the main objective.  As for attacking Orb, let's see the reasons why:

1. Orb is part of EA

2. Orb is harboring Jibril  (Jibril being the primary objective of ZAFT)

3. AA has launched unprovoked attack on ZAFT on multiple occasions including hijack of ZAFT shuttle.

4. AA is currently supporting Orb which is a part of the Alliance.  (Did you hear anyone in Orb renouncing their affiliation with the Alliance during the fight?)

From all appearences, AA and company went from dangerous rogues to becoming soliders of Jibril's EA.  Hmmm, I think that's a good enough reason to attack them. 

Hmm, I seem to remember I was stating the reasons why Freedom did not Disable both sides in this battle.

And your list of reasons as to why Zaft is attacking Orb,,they aren't good enough reasons to attack a another country without given enough time and warning.

1.Orb is part of EA, theirs still lots of country that's part of EA

2.Orb is harboring Jibril,, yes even though only the Serans are doing that.

3.AA only launched one unprovoked attact and that was on Minerva, The 2nd one was Provoked by Shinn, that was it. But if I were to go with your "ZAFT forces" statement then there was no unprovoked attacked caused by AA. They were provoked by ZAFT Special Ops trying to kill Lacus. Also using AA as a reason for starting a attack on another country when AA is supposely MIA/destory and did not show up before the Zaft started attacking is not a good reason at all. Then there's the Shuttle. The Shuttle was for Lacus,, and the REAL Lacus got on board instead of the fake one, enough said.

4.So when AA was support ZAFT, with stopping Destory, do you consider them ZAFT?

If AA was Jibrils soldiers they wouldn't stop Destory or save the Minerva from Doom.

By the way, what deadline are you talking about?  And besides, Yuna's actions made it perfectly clear that Orb was out to lie their asses off.  "We don't know this Jibril person, he said."  Did you see Orb military launch a coup to topple the liars?  No.  Was there any indication during the entire fight that Orb changed their mind?  Not until the absolute end when two Murasames tried to follow after Jibril, and that was questionable because you didn't see them firing on the shuttle, for all you know, they could've been an escort for Jibril. 

The deadline I was talking about is normally a given ammount of time before someone attacks. And when you request someone to find a person that's hiding in a country for you, you normally given them more time. And if they were to boardcast something as stupid as Yuna, then you would at least give them a final warning before attacking. At is if you want to end it peacefully. Zaft never gave Orb time to change their mind because they kept on attacking, when you do that people normally kept on defending. Yes those 2 Murasame could have been escorts, and if there were, they would have fire on Luna when Luna just flew pass them. It would have being nice if there was some mix up and both partys that was chasing the stuttle got into a fight and the shuttle got away.

The fact that Talia stoppped the attack is indicative of the fact that ZAFT has a primary objective, and it isn't Orb, which is essentially just a sideshow at the moment. 

Not really, Tailia stopped the attack because She knows better. The Comander that was incharge of this battle sure didn't want to stop fighting. But then AA took him out. Zaft force were getting a beating and is in need of retreating. Tailia never wanted this battle and if there a oppertunity for her to stop this she would.

When She was reporting to Gilbert he sure didn't want her to retreat that fast.

As for the Requime, here is the argument, ZAFT tried to apprehend Jibril, and failed.  Note, they tried at least.  On the surface of it, there isn't any evidence that Orb tried at all, on the contrary, the evidence is that Orb tried to shelter him, and helped him escape.  (i.e. didn't hand him over, resisted ZAFT attempt to apprehend him)  Cagalli's message afterwards can be construed as a clumsy denial after the fact, hoping to spare Orb from further attacks, it's called having your cake (help Jibril to escape) and eating it too (keeping Orb from getting attacked again).  That's how it looks to someone who doesn't have and omniscent view of things.

Someone who doesn't have a Omniscient view of things will not only come to your conclusion. There will be people that goes, " only losers wine about their best, the winner goes home and BEEP the Prom Queen". I can't belive with so many forces you still let him escape,, now we are in a even worse situation since he will be more vengeful on killing us. And when they see Jibril escape once more then will get angry at ZAFT again,, "you let him escape again?",, man your best is just not enough" With Cagalli Message there will be people that will believe what she's saying and say... perhap there's more to this than meet the eye. and when They see 2 Laucs they will be stuck in the middle.

And beside we talking from an Omniscient view not the other way around.

Your analogy if I break it down is this:  if there was a criminal, you harbored him knowingly, then he murders someone, and you turned around and say to the judge: "but it's not my fault that the cops didn't catch this guy the first time, I'm blameless."  Do you think any rational judge would accept that argument?

You left a whole bunch of stuff out , suppose the Criminal threaten the lives of that person's whole family and that person was force into harboring him. with just this the whole situation will change. And that is only part of it, as there's lots more other things that took place. " Why did I say threaten? the Serans were obviously scare of Jibril

Edited August 16, 2005 by F360°

[wolfx]

Intermission.

After sifting through loads of horrendous OTAKON cosplay, i came across this cute Lunamaria pic.

[kensei]

The skirts too long.

[Dat Pinche Haro!]

that and because of how the person is wearing those clothes it's hard to tell if it's a chick or a guy i can't even tell if those are boobies or just a heavily padded bra...

[kalvasflam]

When did Luna get dog ears? She looks like a crossover from Inuyasha.

[kalvasflam]

So your saying who make the first strike?  let's see, do a team of Zaft Special Ops count?  They are from ZAft and they make the first strike since Kira, Lacus and everyone was not involve in the war at the time and is just living peacefully.       

As for the Minvera's encounter,, yup Kira and AA hit them first.  But you are forgetting the first thing that Kira did at their 2nd encounter.,,  Kira saved the Minvera from DOOM.  That adds lots of credit don't you think?  Any kind of posiable team work was killed off by Shinn when he fires at Cagalli.  Sure enough this was the side that attacked you in the previous battle, but they just saved your mother ship and without it all Gundams will not beable to recharge.  After that they no longer attacked you, and is even doing your job of Stopping EAF DESTROY.

The order to destroy AA and Freedom was perfectly valid only if they were issuse right after their first encounter.  It's no longer perfectly valid after they saved your ass and help you do your job of stopping EAF Destory.  Especially when you know they are not out to kill you, as that was a tactic used to take down freedom.

Justification changes over time, you can't ignore all the other encouters and just say they shot me in my first encounter and even though they saved me, and help me with my job and didn't really try to kill me, it's still justifity to kill them because they hit me first.

Your example is also just for the first Minvera and AA encounter, there was nothing about the 2nd or 3rd one.  Which only explains why it's Justifiy for a Order to destory AA and Freedom right after their first encounter, which I agree.  But it does not show any Justification for giving the same order when they have already stopped attacking your and is helping you and then working with you.

Nope, didn't forget any of the above. But the interjection still makes no sense whatsoever. Remember, they were hiding out from ZAFT altogether after that incident. There was no need to get involved at all. But they made a decision to stop Orb, but the first part of that decision was to shot at the Minerva.

Yet, their secondary action made no sense, either ZAFT is the enemy or it isn't. AA crew couldn't make up their minds. They shot Minerva first, then turned around and shot at Orb. On the flip side, for Minerva, all they knew was those people shot us on the first encounter. Given their interference, and Minerva's loss, at best AA and company is an agent of chaos. So best to take them down. Shinn's actions were understandable although a bit stupid. Because they had a bigger threat from the Orb contingent at that moment. By the way, there is no such thing as teamwork, how well did that work out anyway? I don't remember Kira answering Athrun during the first encounter. During the second, they were talking, and instead of trying to work things out, he sliced Athrun apart.

Ok, as for working with each other. Let's continue the analogy, if I slugged you in the gut, and then I slugged your worst enemy, and then I slugged both of you again. Can you honestly tell me that you want to work with me? Especially since while slugging you, I've just been shouting nonsense about how violence is not good. You'd think I'm a lunatic, and at best I'm completely unstable and totally unreliable.

That's what Panon and Seven are saying, AA and company are running around like a bunch of loose cannons. And the point is, while a loose cannon is good for whacking the other side, it's time to reign them in once they start hurting your side.

if Athrun already came to a conclusion just because Kira was shot down and because the Chairman has a fake Lacus then why didn't he started his escape way before Meer and the the MP shows up at his door. he didn't have a plan either.. so no Athrun did not came to any solid Conclusions yet until Meer tells Athrun what's going on along with MPs knocking on his door, and Rey shooting to kill him and have no care for Meyrin, a suppose friend.  As for your example at the end its just way out there, too much for my simple mind to handle.

Athrun came to the conclusion ahead of this because of the questions he started dropping. Let's just say they were a little less than reasonable. Up until that point, the chairman never had any reason to doubt Zala, but those questions along with the photos pretty much pushed him over the edge and ordering the arrest.

Hmm, I seem to remember I was stating the reasons why Freedom did not Disable both sides in this battle.

And your list of reasons as to why Zaft is attacking Orb,,they aren't good enough reasons to attack a another country without given enough time and warning.

1.Orb is part of EA, theirs still lots of country that's part of EA

2.Orb is harboring Jibril,, yes even though only the Serans are doing that.

3.AA only launched one unprovoked attact and that was on Minerva,  The 2nd one was Provoked by Shinn, that was it.  But if I were to go with your "ZAFT forces" statement then there was no unprovoked attacked caused by AA.  They were provoked by ZAFT Special Ops trying to kill Lacus.  Also using AA as a reason for starting a attack on another country when AA is supposely MIA/destory and did not show up before the Zaft started attacking is not a good reason at all.  Then there's the Shuttle.  The Shuttle was for Lacus,, and the REAL Lacus got on board instead of the fake one,  enough said.

4.So when AA was support ZAFT, with stopping Destory, do you consider them ZAFT?

If AA was Jibrils soldiers they wouldn't stop Destory or save the Minerva from Doom.

1. But lots of countries aren't harboring Jibril, Orb is.

2. Ok, so now, ZAFT is psychic, and they know that Serans are a distinct entity? Seran spoke for Orb, did you see anyone object to him on TV? Voice of opposition prior to or during the fight? No....

3. The second attack was a consequence of the first. While I can understand the special ops side of the question, from the Minerva standpoint, they still saw things as random attacks against everyone. But once they're at Orb.

4. No, they're still loose cannons out to whack anyone who doesn't agree with them. Look at previous history. And by the way, did you hear any peep out of AA that specifically stated they were only here to kill Destroy? Their previous pattern was to attack everyone. There is nothing to suggest that they wouldn't continue this pattern once they wiped out the Destroy.

They're acting as defacto Jibril soldiers by the time the attack on Orb came around. They are supporting Orb, which is sheltering Jibril deliberately. Ergo, from ZAFT's view, nutjobs moving to Jibril soldiers.

The deadline I was talking about is normally a given ammount of time before someone attacks.  And when you request someone to find a person that's hiding in a country for you, you normally given them more time.  And if they were to boardcast something as stupid as Yuna, then you would at least give them a final warning before attacking.  At is if you want to end it peacefully.  Zaft never gave Orb time to change their mind because they kept on attacking, when you do that people normally kept on defending.  Yes those 2 Murasame could have been escorts, and if there were, they would have fire on Luna when Luna just flew pass them.  It would have being nice if there was some mix up and both partys that was chasing the stuttle got into a fight and the shuttle got away.

Ok, sure... whatever. You're suggesting that after Yuna made his comments that ZAFT should just wait around and hope he changes his mind? It became obvious that he was in charge because no one rebutted him. There was a time lag of you don't know how much between Yuna's broadcast and the first strike. So, how long do you propose ZAFT wait? There are military considerations also, the longer you wait, the more time for Orb to shore up all their defenses so that the ZAFT troops will have an even harder time getting at Jibril. That's how a military mind would operate. In reality, a military mind set would be, attack without notifying, it's an element of surprise issue.

And what reason does ZAFT have for stopping the attack half way through. They aren't psychics, they don't know there is a change in power. They just know that these guys are continuing to fight. And based on evidence, it's to protect Jibril.

As for Luna, she is a soldier. Her objective was Jibril, so, technically speaking, if the Murasames were escorts, her only hope was to get in range, and shot down the shuttle before the Murasames got to her. Classic choice, do I kill the escorts and let the primary objective get away, or do I take the chance at the primary and hope I can survive long enough. It was a choice she made, and a good one.

Not really, Tailia stopped the attack because She knows better.  The Comander that was incharge of this battle sure didn't want to stop fighting.  But then AA took him out. Zaft force were getting a beating and is in need of retreating.  Tailia never wanted this battle and if there a oppertunity for her to stop this she would.

When She was reporting to Gilbert he sure didn't want her to retreat that fast.

Ah ha, and that's why she attacked in the first place. Cause she knew better. Give me a break. If she knew better, she would've kept Minerva out of the fight entirely. Her retreat is a very logical decision for the commander on scene when the primary objective is done, or in this case, has escaped. Tell me something, would you waste your time doing something that was basically extra work? Talia was smart enough to realize the situation is changed, ZAFT forces at Orb was no longer necessary. It's called a reasonable response. If Jibril didn't escape, do you think the Minerva would still be fighting? I sure do.

Someone who doesn't have a  Omniscient view of things will not only come to your conclusion.  There will be people that goes, " only losers wine about their best, the winner goes home and BEEP the Prom Queen".  I can't belive with so many forces you still let him escape,, now we are in a even worse situation since he will be more vengeful on killing us.  And when they see Jibril escape once more then will get angry at ZAFT again,, "you let him escape again?",, man your best is just not enough"  With Cagalli Message there will be people that will believe what she's saying and say... perhap there's more to this than meet the eye.  and when They see 2 Laucs they will be stuck in the middle.

No, the message was, ZAFT was attacking to get to Jibril, Orb resisted it all the way throughout. Did Cagalli open up a dialouge in the middle of the fight? I think the answer is no, so, why would ZAFT stop fighting, and Orb keeps fighting back. Besides, ZAFT would've won if it weren't for the traitors that came down.

the Serans were obviously scare of Jibril

Because Jibril was a superman? He could kill them with his awesome mental powers? No, the analogy is exactly correct. Even if Jibril threatened the Serans, he didn't have any ability to carry out that threat on the spot or back things up. And that just explains the Serans, not Orb as a whole. You can make excuses for Athrun for defecting on the one side because of judgement, and excuse the Orb military for not doing the same? A bit of a double standard don't you think?

Ok, I can see where we'll end up with this. I think it's time to just say that we have differing points of view and get on with life.

[Magnus]

Hey, Gunota has posted some good news for all you Seed Haters!

SEED/DESTINY follow-up rumors

Again take this with a grain of salt.

The following blog has a report/dialog between a customer, store owner, and a Bandai staff member during a Bakuseed (miniature electric motor car) tournament. That, of course, makes this report hearsay but still of interest as far as possible commentary on the state of Gundam at the moment goes:

The Bandai staff member commented that currently DESTINY as a series is unpopular with ratings on a downward trend (see below for that) and merchandise not selling well including Gunpla (something also mentioned at Plamoya-san's Useless Diary). The store owner adds that Bakuseed is outselling Gunpla at his store. The conversation switches to a possible sequel after the customer said "I guess no sequel then. Wanted to see one." The Bandai staff replied that they are currently exploring the idea of another SEED sequel which will again feature Kira and Athrun, concluding a SEED trilogy. The ending of DESTINY will be made so a possibility of sequel can occur. If it were to happen, they won't be doing it until after next year as time slots are all filled up for the 2006-2007 lineup. It is currently set as a trilogy, however more sequels will be made if proven popular.

Ratings are down compared to the first SEED (averaging 5.2% currently), though still better than the 90's Gundams on average. But from another perspective, things look worse when you compare it to the numbers for past MBS shows in the same timeslot (righthand column figures) as DESTINY will have to fight uphill to not wind up with the lowest average ratings.

Whoops, did I say good news? I meant bad

More and more confirming that Shin will eat a bullet in the final ep of Destiny, or turn into a vegetable.

[azrael]

Hey, Gunota has posted some good news for all you Seed Haters!

...

320851[/snapback]

http://aeug.blogspot.com/2005_08_01_aeug_a...423729809283745

It should be noted that DVD sales are actually doing very, very well. Vol. 6 has been out for a month and is still in the top 20 anime sales (according to Oricon). And the music has been doing quite well (CD Suit vol. 6 has been out for 2 months and still in the top 10). So it's still in the air.

[kensei]

Just also reading Gundam SEED Astray Manga, do co-ordinators have telepathic abilities? Tokyopop's editor notes seem say so, but I am loathes to believe that.

Does anyone know where I can download the Gundam SEED Astray short videos?

[Panon]

Just also reading Gundam SEED Astray Manga, do co-ordinators have telepathic abilities? Tokyopop's editor notes seem say so, but I am loathes to believe that.

Nope, that was a strange screwup on Tokyopop's part. Rest assured, they're not telepathic.

Also, congratulations to Kira, Athrun, Cagalli and the Archangel for their fine job of stopping ZAFT from getting into Orb to capture Djibril last week - this week, Djibril killed hundreds of thousands of innocent Coordinators.

Orb deserves to be bombed back into the stone age.

[Shade]

Just also reading Gundam SEED Astray Manga, do co-ordinators have telepathic abilities? Tokyopop's editor notes seem say so, but I am loathes to believe that.

Nope, that was a strange screwup on Tokyopop's part. Rest assured, they're not telepathic.

Also, congratulations to Kira, Athrun, Cagalli and the Archangel for their fine job of stopping ZAFT from getting into Orb to capture Djibril last week - this week, Djibril killed hundreds of thousands of innocent Coordinators.

Orb deserves to be bombed back into the stone age.

321756[/snapback]

Considering how badly ZAFT failed at capturing him at the LOGOS HQ, they'd have bungled this operation, too. Even if Kira and friends were busy having a group orgy while this was going on, Djibril would have just left whenever ZAFT forces got close. He could have left earlier than he did in the show, he was just waiting for the Sarans. And if ZAFT really wanted him, they'd have coordinated their forces, and had a space force cheerfully waiting for his shuttle.

And you do realize you just advocated killing tens of thousands of innocent Natural and Coordinators who live in Orb, right?

[azrael]

Djibril didn't need to be on the moon. He just wanted the pleasure of pulling the trigger himself. Unfortunately it is a catch-22 case with Kira/Athrun/Lacus/Cagalli. Let thousands of civilians be caught in the crossfire at ORB or let thousands of people die on PLANT. It's best not to play the numbers-game.

As the viewer, we see things from a larger perspective than the characters in the series. Did anybody know that EA had one more weapon? No. We, as the omnipotent viewers, did. The characters, however, did not. We can make that judgement that they screwed up. The characters in the show can't until it happens. So you can't say someone screwed up since your perspective is a all-knowing viewer.

Concerning the "Destiny Plan". Looks like we guessed right. It does involve evolution. Dullindal wants to force evolution's hand. Eliminate the bad parts (people and all). He wants to create an ideal world where everybody can be what they want to be and everybody is happy. Your life becomes pre-determined, in essense. And if you don't follow the plan, you're eliminated.

Also, someone noticed when PLANT is destroyed, Gilbert is acting. He looks around first then plays role and making everyone believe he's pissed. Good eye...

Edited August 20, 2005 by azrael

[kalvasflam]

Sounds like PLANTS are getting blown away. Having not seen this episode yet, it must be that the final weapon wasn't finished until just recently. Heh, that must've been interesting. Jibril probably didn't need to leave Orb to fire the weapon, but I'm guessing he needed to give the order.

Either way, it sounds like he won't be needed much longer. The PLANTS going up seem to be much more entertaining than just one lousy Junius 7 drop. That means if they have a third seed series, they can have a whole lot more PLANTS to drop on the Earth. Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Edited August 20, 2005 by kalvasflam

[Bob_Coffee]

How do you like your plant roasted? Well done, Sataued? well you get it all in this weeks ep. Most of plant gets whiped out it looks like, but then again Seed never really makes it plain just exsactly how many plants there are, Do they have plants at every Lagrange point ala UC shows?

Yzak and Derraka fight well, but they dont succeed. but Yzak's gouf is pretty spiffy.

the chariman is as expected a good actor, no whare near an actor as char was when he paid off the feddies, to get axis in CCA. but im getting the feeling we'll see providence redux ie a last min pulled out of the ass MS that the chariman himself will pilot. Secondly his fortress(wasnt paying attention to the kana/kanji for what its called) looks like it has a Big ass beam cannon. it will be intresting to see how the next battles go, especally as it seems orb(and thus AA/Eternal) is labeled(as realisticly it should be,even tho it isnt) part of the EA.

good ep, this should have came sooner, nice to see ZAFT take some massive losses for once? and any Bets on the "last" Ms being Sasabi Ignighted?

[Effect]

Finally some PLANTs are destoryed. It's about damn time as well. I just hope Dijbril can get another shot off before it's all said and done..