Max still out ranks Hikaru

[Roy Focker]

Found something in the Gold Book today.

Many of you know that when Roy died and Hikaru went missing Max was moved up to the Skull 001 spot. You also know that when Max went missing Hikaru was moved up to the 001 spot and he got a promotion either just before or after that event from 1 red bar (2nd Lt) to 2 red bars (or 1st Lt) but did you know the Max had a bigger promotion than Hikaru when he was moved to Skull 001?

Earlier in the film both Hikaru and Max have 1 red bar (2nd Lt). Hikaru was promoted up one rank. I'd assume Max was just promoted one as well. In the footage you never see Max in his normal day to day uniform after Hikaru's return. I was flipping through my copy of the Gold Book and on page 268 there's a line drawing of Max with 3 red bars (Captain).

Both Hikaru and Max got a promotion when they took the position of Skull 001 but it looks like Global decided to give Max a bigger one.

[Ido]

Max didn't steal a VT-1 to make a trip with his girlfriend, i think this is the reason for a bigger promotion.

[Skull Leader]

a solid theory, but I'm gonna play devil's advocate here and counter with this:

I'm guessing it doesn't specifically say by this lineart, so I have to wonder, is it possible that he earned that promotion AFTER the final battle of SWI? I mean, he went on to do some pretty impressive things (in an enemy mecha no less) in that final battle, and up to that point, other than the fact that he's in command, there's no indication of his specific rank.

[JsARCLIGHT]

It might come down to what they call Max when he is leading them into battle on Protoculture Island. Do they call him Taii or do they call him Chui? Or do they just use that catch-all Taicho for "Leader/Captain"?

I'm at work and have no access to my DVD to run the scene and see what they call him. My thinking would be that both he and Hikaru are Ensigns (2nd Lt.) at the start of the movie... Hikaru jacks a trainer and goes AWOL, then his status must have been changed to MIA... durring this, Max is promoted to lead Skull. My guess would be he would have only received one grade promotion to a Lieutenant JG (1st Lt) as he was only leading one other guy at the time. Perhaps when Hikaru came back and was given his promotion to Lt. JG Max was given a field promotion to Full Lieutenant (Capt) because he was now in charge of more people. It all comes down to what they call him when they are talking I would think.

And for those who are interested this chart explains Japanese Naval Ranks vs. US Army/Navy rank and has the japanese phonetics:

Taisho = Army General = Navy Admiral

Chujo = Army Lt General = Navy Vice-Admiral

Shosho = Army Major General = Navy Rear Admiral

Taisa = Army Colonel = Navy Captain

Chusa = Army Lt Colonel = Navy Commander

Shosa = Army Major = Navy Lt Commander

Taii = Army Captain = Navy Lieutenant

Chui = Army Lieutenant = Navy Lieutenant(JG)

Shoi = Army 2nd Lt = Navy Ensign

Edit: someone in the office just told me they *think* Hayao Kakizaki calls Max Taicho, meaning catchall "leader" but he refers to Hikaru as Lt. JG Ichijo. So if that is right then we know what rank Hikaru is at that point but Max is unknown. He could be the same as Hikaru but Kakizaki uses the familiar "Taicho" to indicate Max is the leader even though he is the same rank as Hikaru... or he could be a higher rank and poor old Ensign Kakizaki (soon to be seagull food Kakizaki) just hates calling his superior buy their rank.

Edited July 20, 2004 by JsARCLIGHT

[Agent ONE]

Good thread!

I had always assumed they were the same rank.

[valkyrietestpilot]

yeah,but max got sucked into the meltran pleasure world & forgot to come back i wouldn't say he deserted,just went to the side with more cute ratio.they consolled his woes for leaving his buds by super-sizing his ass

how would the un spacy handle his actions? kind of a wierd situation.

[valkyrietestpilot]

i would have thought max would eventually have been promoted ahead of hikaru reguardless.roy was good,hikaru became good,but max was always ice-cold in that valk.he blended the skill roy had w/ perfection.i don't think hikaru fits in that catergory.the guys that are in the top %1 are a different breed to begin with.you can't "learn" to be a top %1-er.your born with that

[Mechamaniac]

It might come down to what they call Max when he is leading them into battle on Protoculture Island. Do they call him Taii or do they call him Chui? Or do they just use that catch-all Taicho for "Leader/Captain"?

I happen to have the DVD with me so I popped it into my laptop here at work, and proceeded to goof off.

Kakizaki refers to him as "Max taii"

So, per the rank structure, Kakizaki is referring to Max as Captain Max.

Edited July 20, 2004 by Mechamaniac

[JsARCLIGHT]

Well that settles it then, Max is one rank ahead of Hikaru.

[Aurel Tristen]

It might come down to what they call Max when he is leading them into battle on Protoculture Island. Do they call him Taii or do they call him Chui? Or do they just use that catch-all Taicho for "Leader/Captain"?

I'm at work and have no access to my DVD to run the scene and see what they call him. My thinking would be that both he and Hikaru are Ensigns (2nd Lt.) at the start of the movie... Hikaru jacks a trainer and goes AWOL, then his status must have been changed to MIA... durring this, Max is promoted to lead Skull. My guess would be he would have only received one grade promotion to a Lieutenant JG (1st Lt) as he was only leading one other guy at the time. Perhaps when Hikaru came back and was given his promotion to Lt. JG Max was given a field promotion to Full Lieutenant (Capt) because he was now in charge of more people. It all comes down to what they call him when they are talking I would think.

And for those who are interested this chart explains Japanese Naval Ranks vs. US Army/Navy rank and has the japanese phonetics:

Taisho = Army General = Navy Admiral

Chujo = Army Lt General = Navy Vice-Admiral

Shosho = Army Major General = Navy Rear Admiral

Taisa = Army Colonel = Navy Captain

Chusa = Army Lt Colonel = Navy Commander

Shosa = Army Major = Navy Lt Commander

Taii = Army Captain = Navy Lieutenant

Chui = Army Lieutenant = Navy Lieutenant(JG)

Shoi = Army 2nd Lt = Navy Ensign

Edit: someone in the office just told me they *think* Hayao Kakizaki calls Max Taicho, meaning catchall "leader" but he refers to Hikaru as Lt. JG Ichijo. So if that is right then we know what rank Hikaru is at that point but Max is unknown. He could be the same as Hikaru but Kakizaki uses the familiar "Taicho" to indicate Max is the leader even though he is the same rank as Hikaru... or he could be a higher rank and poor old Ensign Kakizaki (soon to be seagull food Kakizaki) just hates calling his superior buy their rank.

Just a note the U.N. Spacy does not use Navy ranks (same as U.N.S. Air Force and UNAF).

Ship Captain Global holds the rank of Brigadier General (准将).

Focker is a Major (少佐).

Hikura started off in the movie as a 2nd Lieutenant (少尉).

See: http://www.anime.net/macross/story/encyclo..._nations_spacy/

[eugimon]

can't believe that Max... just because his friend and commanding oficer mysteriously disapears into parts unknown, he uses the oppertunity to rewrite history and give make himself bigger than he was.... despicable.

[ArchVile]

yeah,but max got sucked into the meltran pleasure world & forgot to come back i wouldn't say he deserted,just went to the side with more cute ratio.they consolled his woes for leaving his buds by super-sizing his ass

how would the un spacy handle his actions? kind of a wierd situation.

My guess is that since he was captured and was unable to escape and get back so instead he joined them and took the fight to the Zentradi but with the enemy the UN Spacy command probably wouldn't care, they need as many experienced pilots as they can get, and aslong as Max didn't participate in attacks against the Macross I bet Global would let him off.

[USMCBebop]

Just a note the U.N. Spacy does not use Navy ranks (same as U.N.S. Air Force and UNAF).

Ship Captain Global holds the rank of Brigadier General (准将).

Focker is a Major (少佐).

Hikura started off in the movie as a 2nd Lieutenant (少尉).

Thank you, I was going to ask whether in the original series and DYRL if they use Naval ranks or Marine Corps/Army/Air Force ranks.

The DYRL DVD that I possess, the ones doing the subtitling in English use Naval ranks.

Maybe they [subtitlers] were going off this chart:

Taisho = Army General = Navy Admiral

Chujo = Army Lt General = Navy Vice-Admiral

Shosho = Army Major General = Navy Rear Admiral

Taisa = Army Colonel = Navy Captain

Chusa = Army Lt Colonel = Navy Commander

Shosa = Army Major = Navy Lt Commander

Taii = Army Captain = Navy Lieutenant

Chui = Army Lieutenant = Navy Lieutenant(JG)

Shoi = Army 2nd Lt = Navy Ensign

And assumed that since they're on a ship, it was the Naval side of ranks.

Edited July 20, 2004 by USMCBebop

[Mechamaniac]

Just a note the U.N. Spacy does not use Navy ranks (same as U.N.S. Air Force and UNAF).

Ship Captain Global holds the rank of Brigadier General (准将).

Focker is a Major (少佐).

Hikura started off in the movie as a 2nd Lieutenant (少尉).

See: http://www.anime.net/macross/story/encyclo..._nations_spacy/

Then that would make Max a Captain after all.

Edited first post.

[do not disturb]

LOL you guys need help.

[JsARCLIGHT]

I always assumed they held naval ranks in Macross as they fly planes off of a carrier type ship. Every time I talked with anyone online or at cons, etc. and used army rankings for the people they corrected me that Macross used Naval ranks like Gundam. It seems most of the subtitled versions of DYRL are split down the middle as two DVD versions that I have have two different rank systems used in the subtitles. The FX version uses the army system but the other one (not sure who made this one) uses Naval ranks.

Seeing as the compendium lists army ranks I guess that must be it... but it seems wrong for some reason to me. Has Kawamori every stated positively about the rank systems used? I know the TV show must use army style ranks as Hikaru is definately called a Sergent in one episode. I suppose the same then carries over to DYRL.

Very confusing. Not many armies of the world have carrier based fighter wings arranged in army ranks.

[eugimon]

maybe it's because VFs were intended to be mobile infantry.... mobile in the sense they transform and fly around?

[Godzilla]

In the TV show they flipped back and forth between brigadier general and Captain for Gloval. Focker has been always the rank of Major.

[JsARCLIGHT]

In the TV show they flipped back and forth between brigadier general and Captain for Gloval. Focker has been always the rank of Major.

That may have been because they called Global "Taicho" every now and then which is a familiar term that technically means "captain" I think but it is more a term of respect and not rank. Like you could call your platoon sergent Taicho or your soccer team coach Taicho... or you could call your Ship's Skipper Taicho.

[Kamjin 639]

I just wanna give a thumbs-up to everybody that's helped in this thread. While I didn't KNOW that I needed some things cleared-up, it certainly helps to hear an intelligent discussion such as this with regards to ranking systems...like how Focker was given as a Lieutenant Commander in the television show, and then poof! they refer to him as Major (actually seen in the animation on his cockpit display) in "Do You Remember Love?"--Excellent. Thank you.

[hellohikaru]

And Max's promotions ended there or he really commanded the Macross while holding the rank of Captain(O-3) ?

[Max Jenius]

Well, I AM a mod on Macross WORLD

[connor99]

Thanks for the info, guys!! That's why I love this place, always learn something new! BTW, I think MAX deserved to get a higher rank, after all he is the better pilot.

[eugimon]

Thanks for the info, guys!! That's why I love this place, always learn something new! BTW, I think MAX deserved to get a higher rank, after all he is the better pilot.

better pilot sure... but during the first engagement, it seems hikaru had a better sense of the battle at large, group tactics and strategies...

also during the battle over the protoculutre city, max allows himself to get taken out of the conflict so he could dogfight miria... he just completely left his remaining wingman in the lurch...

I think of max like jordan before his first retirement: genius, able to win games on his own but not of a team player.

[Renato]

Thanks for the info, guys!!  That's why I love this place, always learn something new!  BTW, I think MAX deserved to get a higher rank, after all he is the better pilot. 

better pilot sure... but during the first engagement, it seems hikaru had a better sense of the battle at large, group tactics and strategies...

also during the battle over the protoculutre city, max allows himself to get taken out of the conflict so he could dogfight miria... he just completely left his remaining wingman in the lurch...

I think of max like jordan before his first retirement: genius, able to win games on his own but not of a team player.

True, but also remember that Millia can squish whole Zentradi squadrons by herself, so Max keeping her busy one-on-one is no mean feat, plus he is really helping Hikaru out by doing so. Meanwhile Hikaru can concentrate on his own point-and-shoot activities (the rest of the Meltran battle suits seem pretty lame) without having to worry about the Millia menace.

Jeez, look at all that crap I wrote. And all whilst keeping a straight face!

[eugimon]

Thanks for the info, guys!!  That's why I love this place, always learn something new!  BTW, I think MAX deserved to get a higher rank, after all he is the better pilot. 

better pilot sure... but during the first engagement, it seems hikaru had a better sense of the battle at large, group tactics and strategies...

also during the battle over the protoculutre city, max allows himself to get taken out of the conflict so he could dogfight miria... he just completely left his remaining wingman in the lurch...

I think of max like jordan before his first retirement: genius, able to win games on his own but not of a team player.

True, but also remember that Millia can squish whole Zentradi squadrons by herself, so Max keeping her busy one-on-one is no mean feat, plus he is really helping Hikaru out by doing so. Meanwhile Hikaru can concentrate on his own point-and-shoot activities (the rest of the Meltran battle suits seem pretty lame) without having to worry about the Millia menace.

Jeez, look at all that crap I wrote. And all whilst keeping a straight face!

hmmm... so true so true....

my thinking is, during the protoculutre city battle, if max had better leadship skills, he could have set her up for someone else to shoot down... after all, she was barely staying alive focusing on max, if hikaru got a lock on her, in the time it would have take to divert attention to him, max could have taken her out, or hikaru could have nailed her while she was dodging max's shots...

sometimes you don't need to be skilled, just lucky... right time right place... a good leader makes situations like those happen.

heh... I do so love having serious conversation about stuff that is completely fictional.

[Nightbat]

(forgot how long Macross took to reach earth? 2-3 months? I have no doubt the

Macross was under constant Zentradi attack)

Looks to me that Max -between the time Roy and Hikaru went missing and Hikaru's

return- hasn't been sitting on his lazy ..., got out there and scored enough kills to

have 1 (even 2) up on Hikaru

[Godzilla]

I always like Max. Hikaru seems like a putz to me.

[peter]

Dragging this thread back from the dead, yes, I totally know I'm necro threading.

I think we all know that Max outranked Hikaru in DYRL, but what were their starting and ending ranks in SDfM?

I see a lot of places post Max's rank as Corporal including the DX 1/48.  To me, that doesn't compute.  I'm Corporal (corporal4life) and I don't fly planes, lol!  Army though.  All of our pilots in the Air Force are commissioned officers.

I'm not really familiar with rank structure in the UN Spacy, are there any militaries where a Corporal flies planes?

[Bolt]

There has been much debate about the adopted rank structure in Macross. Including the Japanese translations of rank. 

It seems that Max was well on his way to exceeding Hikaru, either way.

[Roy Focker]

My god a topic I started 16 years ago and I haven't aged a single day.

Enlisted flyers was a thing during WW2.  I suspect it was the same case on board the VF-1.  They were cut off from their normal resources.  Pilots were needed even if they were Corporals.

[Seto Kaiba]

6 hours ago, peter said:

Dragging this thread back from the dead, yes, I totally know I'm necro threading.

This is becoming a bit of a trend, recently... maybe we ought to put auto-lock on any thread old enough to have a learner's permit and a part-time job?

 

Anyway, all ranks translated Army-style as per the onscreen English text in practically every Macross title...

 

6 hours ago, peter said:

I think we all know that Max outranked Hikaru in DYRL, [...]

Only at the end... Hikaru, Max, and Kakizaki all started the film at the rank of 2nd Lieutenant.  Max got promoted all the way up to Captain offscreen after Roy, Hikaru, Misa, etc. got captured.  Hikaru and Misa both got promoted on their return, Hikaru became a 1st Lieutenant and Misa a Major.

 

6 hours ago, peter said:

[...]but what were their starting and ending ranks in SDfM?

Hikaru was a Staff Sergeant when he joined the Spacy in Super Dimension Fortress Macross.  He got promoted to 2nd Lieutenant after "Bye Bye Mars", which is where he picked up Max and Kakizaki as subordinates, then to 1st Lieutenant around the time Roy died and to Captain after the First Space War ended.

Max and Kakizaki were Corporals when they were added to Vermilion Platoon in episode 8.  Max was pretty quickly promoted to Sergeant, then 2nd Lieutenant around the time Roy died and 1st Lieutenant and given his own platoon during the resupply of the SDF-1 Macross in "Paradise Lost".  I don't recall if he gets promoted to Captain before the end of the series, but IIRC he is one at the start of Macross M3 a few years after the end of the series.

 

6 hours ago, peter said:

I see a lot of places post Max's rank as Corporal including the DX 1/48.  To me, that doesn't compute.  I'm Corporal (corporal4life) and I don't fly planes, lol!  Army though.  All of our pilots in the Air Force are commissioned officers.

Like @Roy Focker said, enlisted flyers were a thing during World War II and Max himself is a walking World War II reference.

They dropped enlisted fliers from the Macross setting starting in Macross: Do You Remember Love?.  Thereafter, all pilots are officers and the lowest rank we see for one is warrant officer (which in the Japanese style is more an officer candidate rank.)

[sketchley]

8 hours ago, peter said:

Dragging this thread back from the dead, yes, I totally know I'm necro threading.

I think we all know that Max outranked Hikaru in DYRL, but what were their starting and ending ranks in SDfM?

I see a lot of places post Max's rank as Corporal including the DX 1/48.  To me, that doesn't compute.  I'm Corporal (corporal4life) and I don't fly planes, lol!  Army though.  All of our pilots in the Air Force are commissioned officers.

I'm not really familiar with rank structure in the UN Spacy, are there any militaries where a Corporal flies planes?

This may shed a bit more light on things:

http://macross.anime.net/wiki/U.N._Spacy#Ranks

[peter]

6 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

This is becoming a bit of a trend, recently... maybe we ought to put auto-lock on any thread old enough to have a learner's permit and a part-time job?

 

Yeah, my bad, I knew I was necrothreading, but this thread actually popped up on Google when I was trying to find info on Max's rank in SDFM.

I have to brush up on mil history, I had no idea there were non-comms flying planes back then, but I guess that sort of made sense because they had to take whoever they could find, sort of like in SDFM.

Thanks for the info guys. 

The whole reason I started down this rabbit hole was because I was trying to create a meme where Max is barking orders, but as a Corporal, that doesn't leave a lot of personnel he can order around, lol!

Original:

I wanted to caption this, the standard knife hand:

But then I thought, as a Corporal, who could he possible be jacking up?

I've been on the receiving end of this several times, but the only time I got it from a Corporal was when I was an untrained private during my Basic.  Nowadays, the only time I've been ripped into was from the RSM, and even then, it's pretty rare unless I really mess up.

I was also thinking that Max seems like a pretty chill dude, so someone would have to fuk up pretty bad to get the knife hand from Max.

 

[camk4evr]

13 hours ago, Roy Focker said:

My god a topic I started 16 years ago and I haven't aged a single day.

Enlisted flyers was a thing during WW2.  I suspect it was the same case on board the VF-1.  They were cut off from their normal resources.  Pilots were needed even if they were Corporals.

At a guess the reason Hikaru started as a Sargeant instead of a Corporal lime Max and Kakizaki is because he already knew how to fly (and he'd already been in combat in a valkyrie) so he didn't have to go through badic flight training so was able to get some additional officer/NCO training.