Obscure F-14 trivia

[David Hingtgen]

"Even with the arrival of the F/A-18E Super Hornet in the force, the F-14 remains the platform of choice for precision targeting. It has longer range than the Super Hornet, and the LANTIRN targeting pod is superior to the Nite Hawk the F/A-18E's carry"

--CAPT Scott Swift, deputy commander, CVW-14, 2003

[Prowlus]

10-The A-4 mentioned in topgun though was meant to simulate enemy migs is nowhere near as fast as the tomcat(although jester in the movie said it simuilated migs and was indeed faster).

Yeah, even as a fourteen year watching the movie when it first came out, I was stumped at that, too. But I figure he [Jester] meant the A-4 was fast at maneuverability. What do you think?

I know if the Tomcat and the Scooter were in an air race, there's no doubt who would win.

Scooters may not outrun anyhing but they are very very Maneuverable . there are well documented cases of A-4s outurning even f-16s

ironically the A-4 was actually meant to be a fighter until its role was shifted to light attack once the supersonic jets were available at design stage

further irony about this is A-4s nowadays are being given the fighter role in overseas countries everywhere

but back onto the subject Does anyone hre remember the Grumman XF-10 Jaguar the true ancestor of the f-14?

[ewilen]

"Even with the arrival of the F/A-18E Super Hornet in the force, the F-14 remains the platform of choice for precision targeting. It has longer range than the Super Hornet, and the LANTIRN targeting pod is superior to the Nite Hawk the F/A-18E's carry"

--CAPT Scott Swift, deputy commander, CVW-14, 2003

The LANTIRN/Nite Hawk issue is just a case of leapfrogging electronics, not airframe superiority. As the Super Hornets get ATFLIR, the advantage will likely swing the other way.

And as usual, the range issue is a tradeoff with maintainability, not to mention stealth. All three would be factors in determining the pace of bombing operations. In a sustained bombing campaign, I'd give the advantage to the Super Hornet.

[Godzilla]

Re: Dead Goose-

Also, considering that the F-14 was supposed to be in a flat-spin, the canopy wouldn't have been anywhere near them when they ejected, as they would've rotated, dropped and probably moved away in another direction.

As to Godzilla's obscure fact:

10. US Navy took great lengths to salvage/recover a F-14 Tomcat that rolled off a carrier with 2 Phoenix missiles attached so that USSR could not salvage it. It didnt matter since the fall of the Shah in Iran, the new regime had good relations with USSR and Iran was the only country that US export the F-14s to.

Although keeping the F-14 out of Soviet hands was important, the U.S. was more concerned about the brand-new, top-secret Pheonix missile attached to the F-14 when it went over.

I recently read DARK WATERS, a book about the history of the NR-1, the Navy's little nuclear reasearch submarine (research= legitimate science as well as black ops). What happened is that there are a bunch of reporters on the Kennedy for Press Day during NATO exercises... and the Pheonix is brand new. As the pilot was taxiing (sp?) off the F-14 suddenly accelerated off of the aircraft carrier (later determined to be a stuck throttle). While the pilot and RIO were able to safely eject, the plane, and the U.S.'s new super-secret missile were lost in thousands of feet of water. Not only did the press report this, but Soviet spy ships (trawlers outfitted with a whole assortment of electronics gear) were in the area and knew this happened. So the NR-1 was called over to Scotland to begin searching for the Navy's new plane and missile before the Soviets try to grap it with one of their trawler nets.

The NR-1 searched the area and found nothing. Technicians pointed out that, because the wings were swept forward, their was a strong possibility that the plane "flew" to the bottom instead of sank straight down, which extended the serach area a couple hundred square miles more. Also, they pointed out that recovery should be easy since the plane probably touched down on it's landing gears and was probably just sitting normal down there waiting for someone to find it.

Needless to say, the NR-1 found a long furrow in the mud and followed it to the F-14, flipped upside down and entangled in a bunch of, presumably, Soviet nets. And the Pheonix missile was missing.

After several aborted attempts to raise the plane, the NR-1 finally took pictures of the cockpit in hopes that the techs could analyze the controls and see what went wrong, and went off in search of the missing missile.

They eventually found the missile as well, although need-to-know meant that no one had told the crew of the NR-1 that they were looking for a very large missile, so they kept dinking around looking for a sidewinder.

Just a little tidbit.

Actually they did salvage the Tomcat later. I saw pictures of it. I have to find it. I read that it was an expensive operation as well. Funny they spent that much money to prevent it from falling into USSR hands only to have the only country that the f-14 was exported to go revolutionary and be friendly with comunist states.

[David Hingtgen]

Yeah, and very soon after Iran had their revolution, Russia "came up with" the AA-9 long-range radar-guide missile:

[the white drew carey]

Just a little tidbit.

Actually they did salvage the Tomcat later. I saw pictures of it. I have to find it. I read that it was an expensive operation as well. Funny they spent that much money to prevent it from falling into USSR hands only to have the only country that the f-14 was exported to go revolutionary and be friendly with comunist states.

Yeah, about two months after the NR-1 found it, the British trawler Boston Halifax snagged it twice with her steel trawl but the net broke upon raising it.

Finally two West German salvage boats got it up. First they spun out a steel cable between them and then ran it along the bottom until it snagged the F-14. Then one of the did circles around the site and lay cable out to wrap up the F-14, after which they dropped a 50 ton shackle down to tighten the knot and then lifted it to about 500 feet of the surface. After that they towed it 80 miles to shallower and calmer waters so that hard hat diver could get to it.

Pretty hard work for one plane, eh?

[Knight26]

I'll have a pciture for you all later that will make all true blooded Tomcat lovers sad, the last flight of the Vandy-1 Tomcat out of Point Mugu with its probable successor, an F/A-18F Super Hornet. What makes the picture especially sad is not so much that Vandy-1 will become a hornet, and not that Vandy-1 may be phased out entirely, but that they got the freaking paint scheme wrong on the hornet. THe hornet is the standard haze gray with a Black Bunny. Vandy-1 has always, except when the bunny was removed, had a black tail with a white bunny, if not an entirely black body, this is a crime and a travesty I say. ANyway check the skies over the next couple weeks as Vandy-1 heads to NAS Oceana where it will be put on permanent display never to fly again.

Edited July 16, 2004 by Knight26

[Godzilla]

I really think the F/A-18 is a great strike fighter but it will be nothing like the F-14. I will miss them. I talked to some Tomcat pilots a couple of years ago when they were here for SeaFair and they said it was premature to retire the Tomcat. It makes me real sad to see them go.

[ewilen]

I'll have a pciture for you all later that will make all true blooded Tomcat lovers sad, the last flight of the Vandy-1 Tomcat out of Point Mugu with its probable successor, an F/A-18F Super Hornet. What makes the picture especially sad is not so much that Vandy-1 will become a hornet, and not that Vandy-1 may be phased out entirely, but that they got the freaking paint scheme wrong on the hornet. THe hornet is the standard haze gray with a Black Bunny. Vandy-1 has always, except when the bunny was removed, had a black tail with a white bunny, if not an entirely black body, this is a crime and a travesty I say. ANyway check the skies over the next couple weeks as Vandy-1 heads to NAS Oceana where it will be put on permanent display never to fly again.

I dig the part about the color scheme, but mind you, a lot of people were equally if not more pissed when the black bunny F-4 was retired.

[David Hingtgen]

While I do like F-4's a lot, my point has always been that the F-14 is, AFAIK, vastly superior to the F-4 in every single possible way. Speed/range/agility in all situations/missiles/radar/gun. The Super Hornet can't make that claim to the F-14.

[Godzilla]

While I do like F-4's a lot, my point has always been that the F-14 is, AFAIK, vastly superior to the F-4 in every single possible way. Speed/range/agility in all situations/missiles/radar/gun. The Super Hornet can't make that claim to the F-14.

Damn straight!

[ewilen]

About stats...aerospaceweb gives the F-4 a slightly higher service ceiling (58,750 vs. 56,000 ft.) and range (1720 nm vs. 1600). Of course, there are many F-4 variants and configurations (edit: and the web site could be just plain wrong). But I have no doubt that the F-14 is a better plane than the F-4 in virtually any dimension that matters.

What I meant to convey was simply that from a sentimental perspective, the black bunny F-4 is the winner in many people's hearts. (There's even a group out there who are trying to restore it. Link 1 Link 2). I'll leave it up to the viewer which Vandy-1 they prefer:

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/449147/M/

http://www.studenten.net/customasp/axl/pic...e=7&pte_id=2071

Added: I think they both look great, but I think the F-4 just looks "right" being "naughty" in a swinging 60's kind of way.

Edited July 16, 2004 by ewilen

[Knight26]

They're both super cool planes, and while the F-4 Vandy-1 looks great I have to say that the Vandy-1 is just one of the dead sexyist planes in the sky.

[Nightbat]

They're both super cool planes, and while the F-4 Vandy-1 looks great I have to say that the Vandy-1 is just one of the dead sexyist planes in the sky.

My sentiments exactly, thought I was looking at one of Playboy's centerforlds

[USMCBebop]

They're both super cool planes, and while the F-4 Vandy-1 looks great I have to say that the Vandy-1 is just one of the dead sexyist planes in the sky.

Hey, that's not politically correct! Whatever!

In the nineties, that USN squadron and one USMC squadron (F/A-18) had to drop the playboy bunny because of PC (BOOOOOO!) especially after 1991.

I think Vandy A/C has just recently started painting the playboy bunny on her tomcats again .

Edited July 17, 2004 by USMCBebop

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

I remember seeing the bunny on the SR-71 too. Whats the story behind it?

[KingNor]

Just a little tidbit.

Actually they did salvage the Tomcat later. I saw pictures of it. I have to find it. I read that it was an expensive operation as well. Funny they spent that much money to prevent it from falling into USSR hands only to have the only country that the f-14 was exported to go revolutionary and be friendly with comunist states.

Yeah, about two months after the NR-1 found it, the British trawler Boston Halifax snagged it twice with her steel trawl but the net broke upon raising it.

Finally two West German salvage boats got it up. First they spun out a steel cable between them and then ran it along the bottom until it snagged the F-14. Then one of the did circles around the site and lay cable out to wrap up the F-14, after which they dropped a 50 ton shackle down to tighten the knot and then lifted it to about 500 feet of the surface. After that they towed it 80 miles to shallower and calmer waters so that hard hat diver could get to it.

Pretty hard work for one plane, eh?

I'm not really suprised after what happend during the cold war with the B-29 Bomber. (same type as the enola gay)

Some B-29's had to land in Russia or a Russian Territory for what ever reason, and the Russians took them a part peice by peice, and studied every single peice. They then copied the plane bit for bit.

At some air show a couple years later (i think) some U.S. diplomats were visiting Russia for an air show and were shocked when a squadron of the United States most advanced bomber of the time flew over head painted with Russian insignias.

[the white drew carey]

I'm not really suprised after what happend during the cold war with the B-29 Bomber. (same type as the enola gay)

Some B-29's had to land in Russia or a Russian Territory for what ever reason, and the Russians took them a part peice by peice, and studied every single peice. They then copied the plane bit for bit.

At some air show a couple years later (i think) some U.S. diplomats were visiting Russia for an air show and were shocked when a squadron of the United States most advanced bomber of the time flew over head painted with Russian insignias.

Ahhh... the TU-4 "Bull"...

[buddhafabio]

the b-29 story was funny they had exactly copied it even the patches covering the battle damage from previous missions. because the Russian engioneers were so scared that the higher ups said they screwed up because the outside of the copies did not match the original

Edited July 17, 2004 by buddhafabio

[David Hingtgen]

That is a particular SR-71, during when it was stationed at Kadena. 17978, "Rapid Rabbit".

>>>

61-7978 (c/n 2029) lost July 20, 1972 during landing accident at Kadena AB,

Okinawa. >>>

All the info you could want on that plane: http://www.habu.org/sr-71/17978.html

[Cruel Angel's Thesis]

Well about the way Goose died that was based on a actual event. One time a Tomcat was in a flat spin and the pilot and rezzo ejected and the same thing happened to the Rezzo. After that the ejection system was modified to prevent a repeat of the incident. So it can happen and it did once and i beleive only once.

A littlt piece of trivia on that incident, at the end of Top Gun there is a dedication to Art Schrool (sp), he was a acrobatic pilot, even played himself on ChiPs once. Well he was the pilot that did the F-14 flat spin scene however there was a error after the shot was done and he and the plane were never recovered.

--Cruel Angel's Thesis

Murphy's Laws of Combat: A Purple Heart shows you were smart enough to think of plan, stupid enough to attempt it and lucky enough to surivive it.

[ewilen]

Art Scholl. From what I can glean on the web, he died while filming the movie, but not while flying an F-14. He was flying his own plane, a Pitts S-2A, equipped with cameras--I'm guessing to capture the spin scene as viewed from the inside of the plane.

http://www.airventuremuseum.org/collection...k.asp#TopOfPage

http://www.artscholl.com/FinalFlight.htm

http://artschollaviation.com/asa/index.php

Added: Take a look at this thread over on F-16.net. It mentions the accident which you're probably referring to (occurred during F-14 testing), but more important it has some very cool screen caps of Tomcats dueling Zeroes from The Final Countdown. I can't believe I still haven't seen that movie. Looks like it was recently released on DVD.

Edited July 17, 2004 by ewilen

[Coota0]

Well about the way Goose died that was based on a actual event. One time a Tomcat was in a flat spin and the pilot and rezzo ejected and the same thing happened to the Rezzo.

What the heck is a rezzo?

Heard of WSO's and RIO's never a rezzo.

[Prowlus]

Added: Take a look at this thread over on F-16.net. It mentions the accident which you're probably referring to (occurred during F-14 testing), but more important it has some very cool screen caps of Tomcats dueling Zeroes from The Final Countdown. I can't believe I still haven't seen that movie. Looks like it was recently released on DVD.

Ah the fianl countdown the film wich nearly lost a tomcat in RL Check the dogfight scene with the f-14s and texans and look out for the f-14 rooster-tailing near the drink As i remembered the pilots nearly got a court marshall for doing that move

[ewilen]

According to the thread, "he did it on purpose".

[Skull Leader]

Ah the fianl countdown the film wich nearly lost a tomcat in RL Check the dogfight scene with the f-14s and texans and look out for the f-14 rooster-tailing near the drink As i remembered the pilots nearly got a court marshall for doing that move

Hardly. There was an interview with that pilot on the special edition DVD of the movie. The shot was filmed to make it look lower than it was. When the PR admiral first viewed the film he was a bit concerned, there wasn't any threat of a courtmartial. The sound effect for the afterburners in that shot was actually a woman screaming (heavily distorted, of course).

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

"Even with the arrival of the F/A-18E Super Hornet in the force, the F-14 remains the platform of choice for precision targeting. It has longer range than the Super Hornet, and the LANTIRN targeting pod is superior to the Nite Hawk the F/A-18E's carry"

--CAPT Scott Swift, deputy commander, CVW-14, 2003

The LANTIRN/Nite Hawk issue is just a case of leapfrogging electronics, not airframe superiority. As the Super Hornets get ATFLIR, the advantage will likely swing the other way.

And as usual, the range issue is a tradeoff with maintainability, not to mention stealth. All three would be factors in determining the pace of bombing operations. In a sustained bombing campaign, I'd give the advantage to the Super Hornet.

as far as I know stealth does not factor in much with the Super bug. JSF yes but super hornet no. Range has a lot to do with it I believe IMHO. There is no use for advanced electronics if your plane can't even make it to target unrefueled.

[ewilen]

Nope, Shin, stealth is a factor. The Super Hornet isn't as stealthy as a true stealth, but it has a much lower rader cross-section than a Tomcat.

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/electronics/q0168.shtml

Although the F-14 doesn't appear in the chart at the bottom of the page, you can bet its RCS is at least that of an F-16, which is five times that of a Superbug.

For a bombing operation, reduced RCS means fewer lost and damaged planes, and thus more aircraft available over an extended period. It also means that planes have more options for their route to and from the target, thus the potential of shorter round trips, and therefore less fuel needed for sustained operations.

The converse of your comment is that advanced electronics don't do a plane any good if it's stuck in maintenance. Faster maintenance again means more missions per time period. And cheaper maintenance in peacetime means a larger fleet can be available in case of war.

More planes times faster turnaround = more bombs delivered courtesy of Uncle Sam.

[rdenham]

bump

[Myc]

Here's a bit of trivia: The Tomcat is the last of the Grumman "cats", Navy fighters with feline names:

F4F  Wildcat

F6F  Hellcat

F7F  Tigercat

F8F  Bearcat

F9F(1-5) Panther

F-9F(6- Cougar

F10F    Jaguar (prototype only; never went into production)

F11F/F-11 Tiger

F-14  Tomcat

Here's a picture of several of them in flight together: http://www.visi.com/~jweeks/aircraft/cats.html

174300[/snapback]

May I add one of the more obscure names, but one of my favorites. The F4F-3S Wildcatfish. Basically an F4F Wildcat with pontoons.

[Skull Leader]

Your very first post, and you dig through the logs for a thread over a year old???

[David Hingtgen]

Hey, it's interesting and relevant. (And something I didn't know)

[Gaijin]

I saw a kid playing with a die cast F-14 today.