VF-1 FLAPS

[Omega One]

Hi there:

Does anyone has detail pictures, blueprints, drawings......of the VF-1 flaps with the extension???

Thanks and Regards

[RTHK]

Hi there:

Does anyone has detail pictures, blueprints, drawings......of the VF-1 flaps with the extension???

Thanks and Regards

Is this one ok for you?

[bsu legato]

Where's that from? Is that some kind of aftermarket flaps?

[Omega One]

Is this one ok for you?

RTHK:

WOW!! THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!, that´s just great.

Regards

[Myersjessee]

THAT IS AWESOME!!!! WHATS IT FROM?!?!?! Is there a garage flap kit?!?! (PLEASE SAY YES!!! )

[Gerwalker]

AFAIK those flaps are from the VF-1 1/48 resin kit

[Stamen0083]

Those thin pieces... Are those photoetched metal pieces?

I wonder who would be interested in making an aftermarket resin and photoetched metal flaps kit for the Hasegawa VF-1's?

Who can make photoetched stuff?

There are plenty who can resin cast. Who can scratch build stuff?

Edited July 8, 2004 by Stamen0083

[Myersjessee]

I wonder who would be interested in making an aftermarket resin and photoetched metal flaps kit for the Hasegawa VF-1's?

HERE HERE!

(not hear hear! )

[Stamen0083]

HERE HERE!

Get started already, then. What the heck are you waiting for!? :-P

[neptunesurvey]

I'm in.

[cobywan]

I can do it. Anybody can do it. You just need to do some drawing and find a nice PE vendor.

[peter]

Can someone scan and post bigger pics of the instructions?

[ChristopherB]

Yes, that is definitely the 1/48 Club M.

They didn't call it the "Ultimate" valkyrie for nothing.

The Blue Roses Mike did for me has the flaps set up like that.

Makes the 1/48 Yamato look like a toy that thousands of other people own.

[Grayson72]

Can someone scan and post bigger pics of the instructions?

Just get the instructions out of your 1/48 ultimate strike box, heh heh

[David Hingtgen]

No need to scan, the "other" part of Macrossworld already has them:

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/models/club_m/i03.jpg Nice and big.

[Graham]

No need to scan, the "other" part of Macrossworld already has them:

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/models/club_m/i03.jpg Nice and big.

Other part of Macrossworld? You mean there's more than just the forums?

Graham

[Myersjessee]

Wow...thats cool....theres a whole other section of MW!!! Cool!

Hey Coby...sounds like a great little summer project for you...and certainly a kit you could seel to HobbyFan...how about it. Let me be the first to say I would sign up for 3 1/72 scale VF1 mod kits day 1.

PLEASE!?

[EXO]

I suspected that it was from the ultimate strike and searched the "other" parts earlier, but was out of luck... I would love to see the rest of the instructions also.

[Stamen0083]

Didn't William Cheng drop the flaps on his VF-1? Does anyone have the build up threads?

PS: Are the spoilers absolutely mandatory on this set?

Edited July 9, 2004 by Stamen0083

[David Hingtgen]

Here's all the instructions:

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/models...te_instruct.htm

[Graham]

Page 33 of Macross Design Works also has fairly detailed pictures of the VF-1's flaps.

Graham

[Stamen0083]

Page 33 of Macross Design Works also has fairly detailed pictures of the VF-1's  flaps.

Is this page online yet, Graham?

If not, can you help us scan and upload it? ;-)

David, you're the most comprehensive source of the F-14 flaps. Have you uploaded pictures of them in the past? If not, will you upload some now? :-D

Edited July 9, 2004 by Stamen0083

[David Hingtgen]

One of the big debates is "does the VF-1 have F-14 flaps?" Because F-14 flaps are unique among all the world's aircraft, AFAIK. They are WEIRD. And I've NEVER seen them done dropped truly correctly, except for one guy who scratch-built every single piece of the wing (hundreds) out of brass and copper, as he's a machinist. (he actually made working flaps, I think). If you've ever really looked at a Hase F-14, you'll notice that things won't QUITE line up, for even Hase never figured out how they worked. They do not "drop" nor "extend" like normal fowler flaps. They move a LITTLE, but most of the aerodynamic effects come from retracting and hinging panels that open up slots and gaps around the flaps.

Most planes create slots by moving the flaps away from the wing--the F-14 literally moves parts of the wing away from the flaps.

However, the VF-1 has no external hinges/jacks for the flaps, and that eliminates a lot of possible types it could have. But F-14-style is still a possibility.

MATS of course has the best stuff, go here:

http://www.anft.net/f-14/f14-detail-wingcontrol.htm

I do have a great photo showing the cove doors retracted, from below:

(If I ever find an F-14 myself with the flaps down, I'll take 1,000 photos)

Here, the flaps haven't moved back at all, the cove doors have flipped up. The red you see is the underside of the spoilers, which the cove doors mesh with when the flaps are fully down.

Edited July 9, 2004 by David Hingtgen

[Stamen0083]

Holy poo is all I can say.

That damn F-14's flaps are complicated!

I started cutting the VF-1S wings last night, and I can identify every single part from the F-14's wings on the VF-1S.

Except that the VF-1S has ailerons.

I want to replicate the F-14's flaps on the VF-1S' wings. What's the consensus?

(If I ever find an F-14 myself with the flaps down, I'll take 1,000 photos)

Can you request the air show people to drop the flaps for you?

Edited July 9, 2004 by Stamen0083

[David Hingtgen]

First they'd have to sweep the wings forward, and they'd also need to start the engines. Not going to happen.

If you want to do the VF-1 wings F-14-style, go for it. I can offer no other pics or links that'd be useful. Though having ailerons I still don't like/doubt, as you simply cannot have it move upwards and still function as a flap that way. Could be a downwards-only aileron and still work though. (F-4's have that style, and no video game gets it right)

[Stamen0083]

Though having ailerons I still don't like/doubt, as you simply cannot have it move upwards and still function as a flap that way.

Some planes only drop the inner surfaces as flaps(F-22, F-18, etc...). Can that rationalization be used here?

  Could be a downwards-only aileron and still work though.  (F-4's have that style, and no video game gets it right)

How does it work? On a bank, does the F-4 only drop the aileron on the appropriate side (bank left, drop right; bank right, drop left)?

Edited July 12, 2004 by Stamen0083

[David Hingtgen]

F-18's have flaperons, they drop their ailerons with their flaps.

For the VF-1, I would make it all flaps. No ailerons/flaperons, otherwise you'd need to re-do the entire hinge and overall appearance of the "outboard movable surface". Just have the entire trailing edge be flaps, but have the inboards a more complex, double-slotted version. (Happens all the time on airliners, their inboard and outboard flaps are often different)

As for the F-4: Each wing has a single aileron, and a large spoiler right in front of it. To roll right, you put the right spoiler up and the left aileron down. Just a little oddity of the Phantom. And their airbrakes are in the same spot as the spoiler (similar size and shape too), just on the underside of the wing.

Heh heh, watching "Mail Call" at the moment, showing A-10's blowing stuff up.

[RosarioLuv]

This is always a favourite topic that comes up on the boards. Flaps only, flaps plus ailerons, flaperons, flaps with just spoilers?

I am far from an expert on the matter, but I always was never quite sure how to interperet the scene from the DYRL video game (for Sega Saturn) that shows Hikaru warming up his VF and then taking off from the Prometheus on earth.

(excuse any incorrect labeling on this pic, due to not knowing what surfaces are really called)

It shows what appear to be independent inner and outer control surfaces. Inner ones being flaps, outer ones being what appear to be ailerons/spoilers? Those outer surfaces are seen moving both up AND down while the inner surfaces remain at rest. The outer surfaces on each wing are seen moving independently, opposite each other, AND in unison (as in both can be up, both can be down, one can be up and the other can be down).

The inner surfaces are seen extending fully for takeoff along with the leading edge, while the outer surfaces of both wings move down with the inner surfaces for takeoff. Also noted are that the bottom of the outer surfaces appear to be red (like the bottom of the F-14's spoilers) as you see them when they are up (which makes me wonder when we make models or customs, should we be painting the bottom of our outter wing surfaces red?), and the extended portion of the inner surfaces are also red on top (but you don't see it until it extends).

I've always loved this little bit of animation, but I never really knew how much (if any) liberty the animators took with Kawamori's official design. Since it is probably the latest animation of the VF-1 in action (not counting the cameo VF-1's in M7 or MPlus), and it is NOT a product of Anime Friend, lol, I suspect Kawamori may have at least been aware of the animation before it got okayed?

Anyway, that scene is my favourite interperetation of whole "how do the VF-1 wing control surfaces work?" What is the official word on it though? I am always troubled whenever I hear that the entire trailing edge is only suppossed to move down only.

p.s. Also note the 3 spoiler sections shown on the 1/48 Ultimate model ( on the top side of the wing, directly in front of the trailing edge control surfaces) do not seem to be depicted in this footage.

Edited July 12, 2004 by redemption

[David Hingtgen]

I don't think I've ever seen double-slotted flaps that only move the secondary (rear) flap rearwards while the main one stays in place and merely pivots. That basically makes it much more complex without much benefit. But, that is how it appears in the design works.

As for the outer panels---wow, the animation shows a YF-23 level of movement. (practically straight up) However, almost all drawings show the hinge area as being identical to the flaps, and almost exactly like the F-14's flaps. Which would prevent them moving upwards. It's a flap hinge, not an aileron hinge. I don't know of any good/official drawing that shows them moving upwards. Sure you can animate them like that, but doesn't mean they'd work like that. It'd be like bending your knee the wrong way---you can draw it that way, but the design doesn't allow that in real life.

[Stamen0083]

Hmm... Why do I get a feeling that the VF-1 has a double slotted Fowler flap system?

I intend to follow the 1/48 model pretty closely, but there are intricacies I have to take into account, such as how far apart the flaps have to be placed.

I never thought dropping flaps on a model would be so complicated.

Edited July 12, 2004 by Stamen0083

[David Hingtgen]

If they are double-slotted fowler, then they're drawn/deployed wrong. The slot's pretty non-existant in everything we've seen. Double-slotted? Probably. Fowler? Not IMHO.

Few things more complicated than fowler flaps. Here's a relatively SIMPLE double-slotted fowler flap, the ones used on DC-8's. 1950's design.

[RTHK]

more reference 1

[RTHK]

reference 2

[RosarioLuv]

Hmm, maybe in that "unseen" DYRL game footage, the animator confused the outer "flaps" for spoilers? That might account for why both of them are UP while the airbrake is also deployed. So perhaps these spoilers double as airbrakes in addition to manuvering.

It's just hard to believe this animation is wrong because it is so "recent." Wasn't it CGI'd by the same company Kawamori was working with that CGI'd the opening sequence of the firevalk on Mac7 (is it also the same company that CGI's the valks on MZero?) N E way, they bothered to put so much detail in that pre-flight control surface check, watching all the surfaces move and get tested, even the stabalizers move left and right...just hard to believe with all that intricacy they messed up a huge biggie with the flaps.

So if the outer surfaces aren't suppossed to go up, how does the VF roll right, for example? left flap goes down? and/or right spoiler goes up? On that matter, how does the VF bank, anyway? I mean, with no elevators....? Do the leg fins move as elevators? (In the anime we see them move when hikaru activates his heatshield for atmospheric reentry). Or is pitch controled solely by vector thrust? (feet angling up in place of elevators?)

[RosarioLuv]

Oh yeah, OT, I just noticed, it's interesting in those design specs how they have the landing gear folded in the legs in that gerwalk pic. Sideways? woah.