Pat Payne Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 (edited) And of course, no word on when the DVD would actually come out... By the by, so what then is the "pants-crappingly" big mecha license that ADV was going to announce, since it looks like it ain't DYRL? Breaking News: Harmony Gold's lawyers have just discovered that Tatsunoko's name was on the Louisiana Purchase! Oh, and Roy Focker: I was just taking a look at the Bayeux Tapestry, and you can see where Alan Letz, Steve Yun and Tommy Yune apparently fought at Hastings....thereby givign them legal claim to all of England! Edited July 4, 2004 by Pat Payne Quote
Skull Leader Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 (edited) And by the way....the toynami veritechs are a superior toy to the yamatos. The yamatos merely look better. Go back to trolling on boards where people will listen man, we have no need for this here. I have no beef with HG releasing DYRL here in the US so long as it's unedited in any form or fashion (people over at RT.com are clamoring to see the original RT voice-crew Dub DYRL.... a geriatric voice crew? get real..... Warren and Clarke are the only two still doing Voice acting to any SERIOUS degree) Edited July 4, 2004 by Skull Leader Quote
Armor Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 Hey, forgive me for not be ontop of all of this. I'm start to put ths all together. I have one question. Is HG going to get rights on the 1/48s and put them in a different box and call them Robotech? Quote
Skull Leader Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 In a word, no. HG would have to cancel everything they had with toynami first, and I don't see this happening. Quote
azrael Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 So in terms of actual licenced shows...were still no better off than we were 2 years ago. (Unless a certain company wants to release it as part of "Merchandising" which doesn't hold up IMO) *Images of a t-shirt "I licensed Macross and all I got was this stupid toy" come to mind...* Quote
ewilen Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 While Tatsunoko was indeed involved in the DYRL production (they are afterall to blame for Kiseki releasing the crapass international versions over the years, and that hong kong dub itself for that matter) Hey, Keith, where do you get your info that Tatsunoko was responsible for those versions? Quote
Agent ONE Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 ...Anyway, either Harmony Gold or Tatsunoko figured this out recently and I guess you can say the rest is history. That is why Big West has down nothing to stop what Harmony Gold has been doing these last few months. ... HG has been aware of this for years... They were just waiting for the proper time to spring the news. Quote
Armor Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 Sorry for the newb question, but I want to be on the same page with everone. I know who HG is. I who BW is. Who is Tatsunoko? Quote
Roy Focker Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 BW or Big West: Japanese Producers of Macross TV, Dyrl? and all Macross made in Japan ever since. Kawamori and Studio Nue (considered the creators of Macross) have been linked to most of Big West Macross productions. Tatsunoko: Japanese Producers of Macross TV and looks like Dyrl? They have recently been trying to say that they have right to Macross outside of Japan and it looks that believe there claim includes a whole lot more. Tatsunoko and HG are pals. It's a big battle of ownership. Involving the producers that the creators dealt with and the producers that were brought to help to do the work. Imagine I want you to paint my house. I have enough to pay you but not enough to buy the paint for the job. In exchange we come up with some crazy deal in which you get to use my house to. Later you think you can use my house any weekend you want while I think it applies to only one weekend a year. It's a big mess with a long history. Just to read the pinned topic in the other anime section. ===================================================== I've read about people wanting the RT dubbed cast. If some one wants to dub it again fine but it's Macross not Robotech. Don't confuse people even more by using the RT voices. Unless HG is using a Macross item that is connected to the creators or bigwest I'm not interested in it no matter how offical they say it is. HG can make a Macross offical themed condom but unless Kawamori, his associates or business partners desiged and tested it then it's just a 'name'. Quote
Pat Payne Posted July 5, 2004 Posted July 5, 2004 Sorry for the newb question, but I want to be on the same page with everone. I know who HG is. I who BW is. Who is Tatsunoko? Just in case you're interested: Tatsunoko is one of the older players in the anime field, having started back in the '60s and was responsible for a number of hits back in the day (such as Mach Go Go Go [speed Racer] and Tekkaman). Hey, a random thought that I'm sure I haven't seen anyone bring up in the thread: Now that HG has basically said that they don't own the film rights to DYRL, how does that affect their "we own all Macross" stance? IIRC, when challenged on not stopping Mac+ and Mac 2 in the '90s, their answer was "well, we were short-handed, and would have stopped it if not for that &%$# Haim Saban." But since Tatsunoko had input on DYRL, but precisely nil on anything after DYRL, how can they figure that they had the rights to Mac+ and Mac II, yet have to say that they're going to have to go begging for the rights to DYRL? I smell cognitive dissonance there... Quote
Keith Posted July 5, 2004 Posted July 5, 2004 As for Tatsunoko & the DYRL dub, I believe that info is on the old SUPERDIMENSION FORTRESS MACROSS VHS credits. The Yamato toy's are both asthetically & physically superior to anything Toynami has put out. Lastly, I'll be damned if I buy an HG condom. Next thing you know they'll be claiming rights to my sperm & combining it with someone who's eggs they purchased to make robobabies. Quote
azrael Posted July 5, 2004 Posted July 5, 2004 Lastly, I'll be damned if I buy an HG condom. Next thing you know they'll be claiming rights to my sperm & combining it with someone who's eggs they purchased to make robobabies. No no no. You got it all wrong. With an HG condom, they gets the sperm that you deposit in the condom. You sign a deal to sell rights to that sperm to HG. They take that sperm, combine it with other sperm and then mix in the eggs to get robobabies. Years later, they come back and tell you they have rights to ALL of your sperm. When you ask for the original copy of the contract, they decline to show it to you. Then after a few years of litigation, it is determined that they only own rights to the sperm that you sold them years ago. Therefore, they can only exploit the sperm that was given to them years ago. That's how an HG condom works. Quote
Keith Posted July 5, 2004 Posted July 5, 2004 Don't forget their attempts to claim rights to any children I father within that 20 year period, threatoning litigation against me or anyone else who talks to them instead of their robobabies. Quote
LordSixx Posted July 5, 2004 Posted July 5, 2004 Really people, what do WE have to do to get rid of HG? Quote
ogami Posted July 5, 2004 Posted July 5, 2004 Really people, what do WE have to do to get rid of HG? 1: Someone rich enough to buy out HG 2: After HG lost all the Macross related license 3: When HG cannot make money out of Robotech and its fans 4: Bandai steps in and claims Macross:DYRL 5: If the next Robotech series fails to capture new fans... Quote
Renato Posted July 5, 2004 Posted July 5, 2004 While Tatsunoko was indeed involved in the DYRL production (they are afterall to blame for Kiseki releasing the crapass international versions over the years, and that hong kong dub itself for that matter) Hey, Keith, where do you get your info that Tatsunoko was responsible for those versions? Oh, come on. Here are just a few of the ANNOYINGLY persistent mis-truths about Macross which always pop up on these boards and I'm fed up of correcting. * "Animefriend" staff can't draw. * "Tailfin missiles" are an animation error. * Nobody knows what happened to the Megaroad. And of course, "Tatsunoko were only involved in the making of the original show". Here's the truth, fact fans -- Tatsunoko and Animefriend were the main production houses for DYRL, boys and girls. I don't often show off, but I've been to the Tatsunoko studio, so I know what I'm talking about. Even if you don't believe me, just look at all the proof. Look at production credits, look at the storyboards look at the production cels (they got TATSUNOKO PRO stamped all over 'em). But as far as contracts are concerned, Studio Nue, Big West and Tatsunoko had to sell the international distribution rights in order to get the bloody show made in the first place (Studio Nue couldn't pay Tatsu, so they outsourced the production of some episodes, but they STILL couldn't cover the costs). But I don't know if there was such a transaction regarding the movie rights. I would've figured the success of the franchise would have reimbursed SN and BW enough to fund the Tatsunoko production of the movie themselves. This is why I think HG are being PARTICULARLY "dickish" this time round. Oh, and for the record, BW are almost as bad as HG in money-grabbin' terms, when in the early 90s they went ahead and commissioned for that abomination, Macross II, to be made, since they wanted a sequel with or without Kawamori. It's funny though. If BW hadn't gotten MacII made, Kawamori probably wouldn't have come back to Macross. NO MACROSS II = NO MACPLUS, 7, ZERO And this one's even better, check it out: If Tatsunoko hadn't sold the international rights, there would have been no original series. NO ROBOTECH = NO MACROSS = NO ROBOTECH The vicious circle. Quote
McKlown Posted July 5, 2004 Posted July 5, 2004 * Nobody knows what happened to the Megaroad. Tell us, oh wise one, what DID happen to the Megaroad? Quote
CoryHolmes Posted July 5, 2004 Posted July 5, 2004 * Nobody knows what happened to the Megaroad. Tell us, oh wise one, what DID happen to the Megaroad? It became the Miniroad? Quote
bsu legato Posted July 5, 2004 Posted July 5, 2004 So...to sum up, HG owns the merch. rights to DYRL and in fact have owned them all along. Yeah, I didn't see that one coming. Quote
the white drew carey Posted July 5, 2004 Posted July 5, 2004 Here's the truth, fact fans -- Tatsunoko and Animefriend were the main production houses for DYRL, boys and girls. I don't often show off, but I've been to the Tatsunoko studio, so I know what I'm talking about. Even if you don't believe me, just look at all the proof. Look at production credits, look at the storyboards look at the production cels (they got TATSUNOKO PRO stamped all over 'em). I don't doubt that TP animated the movie, but I don't see what this has to do with anything. Pixar animated all those nice CGI movies, yet Disney still basically owns them. DYRL was BigWest's project and to state otherwise is folly.* But as far as contracts are concerned, Studio Nue, Big West and Tatsunoko had to sell the international distribution rights in order to get the bloody show made in the first place (Studio Nue couldn't pay Tatsu, so they outsourced the production of some episodes, but they STILL couldn't cover the costs)... This statement is a tad inaccurate. BW/Studio Nue/MBS DID pay Tatsunoko Productions, and work started on the show. It wasn't until about the 3rd or 4th episode (IIRC), when TP said it was costing too much and they needed something more in order to continue. THAT is when TP was granted int'l distribution rights and certain merch rights as well. What did BigWest and the boys get for it? Some good work, true. Some really good work, yeah. But also A LOT of some of the crappiest animation and artwork for the time. And this one's even better, check it out: If Tatsunoko hadn't sold the international rights, there would have been no original series. Yeah, this statement is COMPLETELY wrong. The show was well into it's run, (maybe even over) by the time TP actually sold the Int'l rights to anyone. Stop messing with the new kid's heads. *p.s.- Never use the phrase "Here's the truth..." when listing facts. Truth is subjective to ones viewpoint, facts are solid information. Truth: Robotech Sucks. Fact: Robotech has caused a strong and varied reaction from anime fans over the years. Quote
the white drew carey Posted July 5, 2004 Posted July 5, 2004 Hey, a random thought that I'm sure I haven't seen anyone bring up in the thread: Now that HG has basically said that they don't own the film rights to DYRL, how does that affect their "we own all Macross" stance? IIRC, when challenged on not stopping Mac+ and Mac 2 in the '90s, their answer was "well, we were short-handed, and would have stopped it if not for that &%$# Haim Saban." But since Tatsunoko had input on DYRL, but precisely nil on anything after DYRL, how can they figure that they had the rights to Mac+ and Mac II, yet have to say that they're going to have to go begging for the rights to DYRL? I smell cognitive dissonance there... They've been caught before. This is just another example of them not covering their lies very well. But in typical HG fashion, they'll just ignore the inconsistencies in their story, and any questioning thereof, and move along. p.s.- Cognitive Dissonance... I like it. It would make a great band name. Quote
eugimon Posted July 5, 2004 Posted July 5, 2004 I love this line of reasoning: Since HG has an indefensible position, let's attack Big West instead... when no in the Macross camp has said that Big West is some sort of collection of Saints and altruists. I am quite sure that Big West is also greedy but HG has for the last twenty years been blocking fans from watching macross and obtaining macross licensed merchandise. That's it. for that reason they are the evil empire, if it were the other way around, and BW was stopping the importation of robotech into japan and there was some japanese robotech fan base then Big West would be the evil empire. Quote
Ladic Posted July 5, 2004 Posted July 5, 2004 HG is a business, anyone wanting to make money with their business, would do the exact same thing. Quote
Radd Posted July 5, 2004 Posted July 5, 2004 HG is a business, anyone wanting to make money with their business, would do the exact same thing. Spoken like a true Cynic... wait, why am I getting this bizzare Deja-vu sensation? Quote
ogami Posted July 5, 2004 Posted July 5, 2004 THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING! How about... the colony is falling! the colony is falling! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Anybody know is HG making profits or losing big time? Quote
valkyrietestpilot Posted July 5, 2004 Posted July 5, 2004 i don't care if hg blocking merchandise coming here to me is a common business practice.that's wrong.you can't deny someone a choice just cause you wanna make money.if they're actions are causing me to have to pay 2x-3x more to get my yamatos & my dyrl? movie.then,they can suck my left nut.i'm not gonna just let it go cause that's what all businesses do.i'd do the same for all other aspects of my consumer life.if i found out i was being denied a superior foreign product for say...my hotrod,i'd never support those responsible again w/ my $. when a company deliberately tries to hide another product from the consumer,it means that they fear it cause it's superior.stop trying to dissavow the superior product.hey,here's a thought...try making a superior product instead!!!!! wow,i must be a genius,uh,i mean jenius Quote
Gaijin Posted July 5, 2004 Posted July 5, 2004 I doubt that Yamatos nowadays would sell for 2-3 times less than what we pay now...even if they could sell them here. Quote
eugimon Posted July 5, 2004 Posted July 5, 2004 I doubt that Yamatos nowadays would sell for 2-3 times less than what we pay now...even if they could sell them here. it's possible... I've seen 1/48's selling for 199.99 at local manga/anime specialty retail shops... so if you figure a good price on line for a 1/48 is what... around 120? then it's almost, but not quite, twice what you would pay. So yeah, HG blocking mass import of yamato products does jack up the price considerably, maybe not as much online, but if you're buying retail than it is a bit obscene... plus, I've had jack offs at these stores tell me to my face that yamato was bought out by HG and that's why they charge 300 dollars for macross plus toys. Quote
LordSixx Posted July 5, 2004 Posted July 5, 2004 Jackoffs will say anything to make a $. How much more of this crap do we have to put up with? I know I don't like buying anything that isn't official Macross merchandise. Quote
CoryHolmes Posted July 5, 2004 Posted July 5, 2004 Jackoffs will say anything to make a $. How much more of this crap do we have to put up with? I know I don't like buying anything that isn't official Macross merchandise. Then don't. Nobody is forcing you to buy anything you don't want to. Just stick with your Yamato's and leave everyone else to make their own choices about what to spend their money on. Quote
Ladic Posted July 5, 2004 Posted July 5, 2004 HG is a business, anyone wanting to make money with their business, would do the exact same thing. Spoken like a true Cynic... wait, why am I getting this bizzare Deja-vu sensation? I'm realistic. Quote
ewilen Posted July 6, 2004 Posted July 6, 2004 Keith--thanks, I'll check on that. Pat Payne--you're making a common mistake when you say that HG's admission that they don't own DYRL conflicts with what they previously said about M+. As far as I can tell, outside Japan, HG claims to own the right to distribute and merchandise SDF Macross stuff (and now DYRL merchandise) as well as the exclusive right to distribute any other "Macross derivatives". The exclusivity part means that other people can't sell "Macross derivatives" without their permission. It does not mean that they have the "positive right" to use any and all Macross intellectual property which may exist. Renato--you've got me all wrong. Look in the legal thread and you'll see that I've found a court case (11/11/2003) which was decided this year regarding TP suing Bandai and BW for selling products with "Macross" in the title (such as Macross Zero). The judgment includes a description of the roles various parties played in the making of DYRL and their respective rights. I'm aware that TP worked on DYRL. What I'm not so sure about is whether TP owns or owned the right to allow third parties to translate/distribute it. My reading of a machine translation is that the answer is "no, TP doesn't have the right". If you'd like to look at the text, I'd appreciate seeing your opinion of what it says. (My comments on the case and a link were around Feb. 20 '04.) Quote
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