Macross Religious Overtones

[bsu legato]

Of course, L. Ron Hubbard was a contemporary of Clarke's.

With the difference being that Hubbard was a complete and total loon. Seriously. After a discussion about Scientology, a friend and I did some net research and found that Hubbard appears to have been completely delusional.

Still, you may have a point. Protodevelin = body thetans?

[tetsujin]

What a crock...

[daeudi]

What a crock...

Bean crock!

We thank you for your opinion. But are more thankful that you were not specific.

[GreatMoose]

Reading through some of that stuff (on the Ooparts website), i have to say WOW. A lot of it is pure conjecture/speculation, but man, some of that stuff is COOL. Those Baalbek Monoliths are freakin' me out. I've actually seen some guys build that Cairo glider before, and yes, it flies like a dream.

Edited June 24, 2004 by GreatMoose

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

About the alien-looking skull, I said it was "alien-looking" not that it was actually alien. I think there is a section dedicated to skulls somewhere and they've done dna tests on them, and yes they are human. I've seen some strange things on ripleys believe it or not where they purposley use techniques to deform the body into certain shapes so I'm aware of the way different cultures could have funny looking bones structures. (like how some put 100s of necklaces on thier neck when young and grow up with long necks. Interesting stuff nonetheless) Anyway I urge you to download that pdf file of the 12 footer in the coffin. You'll need adobe acrobat to open it. But in that article is a good photo of a giant lying in a coffin against a train. Roy: "Now, you see why we had to built these giant machines rick, to combat these giant aliens..." According to that steve quayle site, the biggest ever recorded giant remains are a whopping 36 feet! He has an interesting take on the whole creation myth. Basically like in the matrix movies civilisations keep getting more advanced until corruption is too great, then bam! massive destruction, and civilisation must start again and the cycle repeats. (so you see mysterious technology from the past that doesn't belong in this age because it was from earlier "advanced" civilisations.)

I'm thinking this: Because the Zentreadi were clones, in a religious sense, clones do not have a 'soul' so it makes it easier for the spirits that existed inside the "sub-universe" to enter and possess thier bodies. Thier minds easily controlled by a demon force then spread and turned against them - similar to demon possession like that little girl in the excorcist movie lol.)

Now before you go calling us all geeks consider that there are stories similar in lots of anime and sci-fi too. In the Street Fighter games you have the illuminati and M.bison's secret society ShadowLaw, using clones as his host body, or (as with street fighter 3) beings from ancient bloodlines having angelic powers(The videogame boss, Gill for example).

Mind control? Cammy white in the SF animatated movie was a manchurian candidate used by bison to assasinate presidents. In the official canon, Cammy isn't the only one, there are like 12 other dolls used. His psycho powers of mind control is in fact a form of magick (not "magic" because it is not an illusion) He could use psychotronic devices to perform demonic experiments (poor ken) or just use his own power. This is why character's like Rose are so part of the story all along. The creators didn't want to give away the whole story until absolutely the end. (nobody know much about why rose is in a street fighter game because she sticks out too much. - like an after thought. But towards the end she is one of the main characters.) Now in macross plus, the same sort of thing happens with Sharon apple hypnotising humans probably with ELF waves or something.

--------------------------------

Alien skull update EDIT:

here's a cut and paste of the article from s8int.com: http://www.s8int.com/giants3.html

ANOMALOUS HUMAN SKULLS FROM SOUTH AMERICA

Anomalies & Enigma's Forum

These anomalous skulls located by Mr. Connolly in various South American museums are certainly the talk of Talk-Origins and is giving anthropologists a few headaches. The general opinion seems to Click and drag photo to resize. Script from The Java Script Source

be that they are not the result of medical deformation and are too anomalous to be the result of "binding" techniques. In addition, some of the skulls have brain vault capacities significantly in excess of you and me.

"When some of these pictures were posted on CompuServe, the majority of people assumed that they represented an example of binding of the head, well known to be in fashion in ancient Nubia, Egypt and other cultures. The skull binding was a primitive practice in which a person's head was tightly bound with cloth or leather straps throughout his lifetime, causing the skull to grow in this dramatic way.

Anthropoligists however have admitted that the shapes of the Peruvian skulls is unlike the deformity caused by binding.

The skulls shouldn't exist

The skulls are a real problem for the anthropoligist. The frontal part of the skull seems to belong to an individual of the pre-Neanderthal family. But the lower jaw, though more robust than modern human type, has a modern shape and characteristics.

The shape of the cranium is completely different from Homo Erectus, Neanderthal types, and the modern human type. Some minor Neanderthal characteristics are present, as with the occipital ridge on the bottom back of the skull and the flattened bottom of the cranium, but other characteristics point more towards Homo Erectus.

Click and drag photo to resize. Script from The Java Script Source

What a representative of a premodern human type is doing on the South American continent? According to the orthodox anthropology, this skull simply does not exist, because it cannot be. Textbooks' oldest date of appearance of humans in North America is about 35000 BCE and much later for South America, based on the diffusion theory assumptions.

Neanderthals did not exist in South America. The only accepted human types entering the continent are of the modern anatomy.

Evidence of ancient brain surgery

Some skulls show the evidence of ancient brain surgery that prove their ancestors possessed certain abilities that modern science has just recently discovered. Plenty of skulls in the area of the Nasca desert.

Peruvian government said that these unusual skulls could be found in many museums in Peru and excavations were uncovering them even now near the Nasca Plateau. These skulls are so numerous in the area of the Nasca desert that you can find small makeshift museums in the backyards of the locals.

They dug up their ancestors so you can view their remains for a small fee. In Mexico there are the same types of skulls in a museum in Merida, a city close to the ruins of Palenque.

So why hasn't anyone taken the photographs earlier and showed it to the rest of the world? According to the peruvian church leaders the skulls are a work of devil and the offspring of the fallen angels in the Bible. When President Fujimori took power in Peru. He had decided to allow the skulls to be photographed and has brought them to the attention of the world.".... Janku

My supposition is simply that the variety of human variation and human DNA would have been significantly decreased after the flood when all human DNA variation would have been resident in only eight individuals; Noah, his wife, his three sons and their wives.

^possible remains of Exedol

...I take back what comments I made about the picture I linked to in particular. The skulls I was reffering to with dna tests done on them "that were found human" were a different type of skull from another site with skull images. The long brained one you saw in my earlier post could indeed be "alien" (if that's what you want to call whatever ancient species of human had existed that far back in time - still farkin fascinating. I'm more interested in the giant skeletons because if giants had massive brains and were intelligent, and not just "dumb brutes", then they would make Einstien look like a retard..)

Here's a link to an aritcle on the shaver mystery

----snip----

It was Richard Shaver's contention that in prehistoric times, when our solar system was very young, Earth was inhabited by a race of cosmic superbeings who had come to our planet from another solar system.

Although the members of the Elder Race were not truly immortals, they had discovered secrets of incredible longevity. Later, when Homo had developed into a sentient being, such physical attributes of the Elder Race, together with their highly developed scientific technology, caused the extraterrestrials to be regarded as gods by the primitive and unsophisticated humans.

The Elder Race possessed fantastic mechanical devices, which Shaver called "mech," capable of projecting three-dimensional images, extracting or implanting thoughts into others' minds, scanning over great distances, curing diseases, producing food and clothing--and killing and destroying life when deemed necessary.

The Extraterrestrial Race Discovers the Sun's Detrimental Rays

After a time, the Elder Race, the Titans, began to notice that the once beneficent Sun now seemed to contain detrimental rays which were shortening their life-span by causing premature aging. While they had achieved near-immortality on their native planet, Earth's Sun, over the many centuries that their alien race had dwelt on its surface, had begun to take a toll on their physical bodies.

But now they were no longer extraterrestrials. They had become citizens of Earth and were subject to its unique physical laws.

In order to escape from the harmful rays of the Sun, the Elder Race entered deep underground caverns and began carving out a fantastic subterranean kingdom, using their powerful ray guns to disintegrate rock.

Soon they had constructed awesome machines which could duplicate the health-giving rays of the Sun while excluding the detrimental radioactivity.

Meanwhile, beings of the developing Homo species continued to evolve in the Sun, ignorant of the rays which would shorten their life-span--and puzzled by the withdrawal of their gods.

----snip----

----snip----

Centuries passed, and a series of desperate experiments with the "mech" brought about certain radiation that began to destroy a portion of the brain of many of the underpeople and produced a dangerous form of hereditary insanity.

Vast numbers of the cave people began to degenerate into physically stunted near-idiots, incapable of constructive reasoning. Shaver told his readers that such beings were the "Dero," that is, detrimental or degenerate robots. "Robot," as Shaver used the word, doesn't refer to a mechanical representation of a human being, but is rather a designation for those cave people who became controlled, or obsessed, by degenerative forces.

The Deros, due to their hereditary brain damage, are completely devoid of any moral sense or humane instincts. They do harm at every opportunity, and they gain immense satisfaction from the sufferings of others. They have mastered the use of certain of the "mech," and they take great pleasure in directing negative rays at Earth's surface dwellers whenever possible.

The greatest delight of the Dero comes when they are able to lure or to kidnap humans into the caverns and set about debasing them in sadistic orgies. Such abductions usually result in death or enslavement for the unfortunate captive.

Throughout the centuries, Shaver stated, the horrid details of some of these grotesque debaucheries reached the surface world and established the foundations for the accounts of devils, demons, and the underworld hells of religion.

----snip----

----snip----

The Tero Alone Can Keep the Demonic Dero at Bay

Standing between the degenerate Dero and the complete annihilation of the surface people are the "Tero" (The Elder Race used T as a symbol of their religious philosophy, so the "T" in Tero stands for good). The Tero have devised a means of staving off many of the degenerative effects of their poisonous partial science by use of machines and chemicals and the direction of beneficial rays.

Through centuries of experimentation, the Tero have nearly mastered manipulation of the "mech" left by the leaders who deserted their ancestors. They are able to defend themselves from the Dero and are able to keep them from swarming up to the surface world en masse.

Although many of the Tero harbor friendly sentiments toward their human cousins above the caverns, they still consider humankind too barbaric to he entrusted with the secrets of the " mech. "

In ancient times, an extensive trade and exchange was carried on between the Tero and the surface peoples, but as humans became more sophisticated and their communications became more efficient, the Tero have almost completely withdrawn from open intercourse with the surface world. The surviving remnant of the Elder Race is determined to keep its Inner World a secret from the surface people until humankind has matured enough to share the marvels of the "mech," which remain operable and fully functional after millions of years.

A Warning To Future Man

Richard Shaver had originally entitled his manuscript, " A Warning to Future Man," because, according to his observations during his alleged sojourn in the eaves, he perceived that the Dero were becoming more numerous and had begun to weaken the more pacifistic Tero with their constant attacks.

Shaver believed that the greatest danger to humankind lay in the uncomfortable fact that the Dero had access to the "mech" of the Elder Race's super science, but they did not have the requisite intelligence or the highly developed moral sense needed to handle the powerful machines responsibly.

----snip----

Ray Palmer kept the Shaver mystery and the resultant controversy going in his magazines for four years, in more than fifty consecutive issues of Amazing Stories, Fantastic Adventures, Mammoth Adventures, and even South Sea Stories.

Although both Palmer and Shaver have passed away, the furor the Shaver Mystery set off among the science fiction and Fortean buffs continues today to break out in periodic brush fires.

----snip----

There's more but I thought it would be funny to include the part about mechs for the guy in this thread curious about giant robots in ancient times.

Edited June 25, 2004 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[daeudi]

Wow, LowVis...

I don't think some people are ready for that much!

Personally, I believe the Nephilim were/are real, and that most creatures of mythology are some offshoot or another of non-earthly entity crossbred with an earthly form- human or animal.

But back to Macross!

Taking all these things into account, and including conservative Christian views on One World Government, etc. it seems easy to understand how the Anti-UN developed. Conspiracy nuts, Religious zealots, and 3rd world countries would finally join to fight what they see as the fufillment of the Apocalypse. I think every conservative religious leader of any monotheistic faith on the planet would decry the whole thing as the work of Satan, eventually the government would have to start suppressing the rabble-rousers.

Wormwood falls from the sky, the UN takes over tech and governments, proof of alien life would be official "PROOF" that there was no God, in fact- later it would be said that God did not make us in his own image: the Protoculture did. Heck, to be honest, I might join the Anti-UN.

I am curious about how the Zentran factions joined. You would think they would be the antithesis of everything the Anti-UN stood for.

EDIT: P.S. Yes, I know I am a quack!

Edited June 25, 2004 by daeudi

[tetsujin]

What a crock...

Bean crock!

We thank you for your opinion. But are more thankful that you were not specific.

Suffice to say that none of your comparisons really seemed to have any connections to each other. Like the Max & Millia wedding thing... is there really any connection there other than "people getting married"?? It's all like that. You've tied all these bits of scripture to bits of the Macross story, but none of it really makes any sense, or else has only the most superficial connections.

[daeudi]

Well, since you think this discussion is pointless, contrived, and without connection-

Why did you bother replying? seems like that too is a waste of time.

If you don't see the point of this discussion, then please, don't allow me to waste any more of your time by you reading it.

I would hate to be a burden on you.

Big Smiles! BIG Smiles!

EDIT:

Like the Max & Millia wedding thing... is there really any connection there other than "people getting married"??

Uhm- other than the fact that one of them is a frelling alien made to be a servant soldier by the same race that played god with our DNA? Or that their children (at least 2 of them, seems a very high rate, considering how rare it would have to be) seem to have supernatural powers- i.e. Spiritia?

No- nothing like angels/watchers breeding with humans and having offspring who are legendary. Nothing at all...

Edited June 25, 2004 by daeudi

[That NOS Guy]

With the difference being that Hubbard was a complete and total loon. Seriously. After a discussion about Scientology, a friend and I did some net research and found that Hubbard appears to have been completely delusional.

Appears? He's even more whacked then the Mormons and the JW's combined.As a christian I see plot holes in my religon all the time, Scientology is frakking scary.

-NOS

Who remembers the Scientology knock-off in Bowfinger?

[daeudi]

With the difference being that Hubbard was a complete and total loon. Seriously. After a discussion about Scientology, a friend and I did some net research and found that Hubbard appears to have been completely delusional.

Appears? He's even more whacked then the Mormons and the JW's combined.As a christian I see plot holes in my religon all the time, Scientology is frakking scary.

-NOS

Who remembers the Scientology knock-off in Bowfinger?

Okay, if anyone read any of his "Mission: Earth" or battlefield earth, or Dianetics books, you already know the guy was a whackjob.

Not the point.

I again ask that you do not insult any religion. I have a JW close friend, and while I wonder how they could possibly lose the gold plates of God, I have always found Mormons to be polite and friendly people.

Please- Do not insult any religion, even Atheism.

Scientology or "Christian Science"? We should probably be nice to them, JIC one of them is here.

When someone dies, then they will know if they were right or wrong in their choices. It is not for anyone here to argue.

[peter]

I haven't read that book (the bible) so I can't really say much about the comparison between Macros and that religion, but I doubt Shoji is a follower.

[LordSixx]

I think these refrences were put here to make us think, not to insult or argue. I found them quite interesting. There are Biblical refrences in Star Wars and I don't see anyone complaining about that. I guess I'll keep my insults for HG!!!

[zeus the zentran]

Yeah i concur Daeudi if people learned to agree to disagree the world would be better.

[peter]

I think these refrences were put here to make us think, not to insult or argue. I found them quite interesting. There are Biblical refrences in Star Wars and I don't see anyone complaining about that. I guess I'll keep my insults for HG!!!

I remember people arguing about Phantom Menace back on the old boards, saying it had religious references.......

[daeudi]

I think these refrences were put here to make us think, not to insult or argue. I found them quite interesting. There are Biblical refrences in Star Wars and I don't see anyone complaining about that. I guess I'll keep my insults for HG!!!

I remember people arguing about Phantom Menace back on the old boards, saying it had religious references.......

Phantom Menace.... I'm sorry, How did the statement go from Star Wars to Phantom Menace? They aren't the same universe!

Anyways- I think what we see is an underlying acceptance of the principal of supernatural good vs supernatural evil, and a search for some greater meaning than the cold universe that Darwinism offers. Most of humanity believes that the universe has a purpose, a beginning, and therefore an end.

All religions with an Apocalypse have a concurrent theme- so why not refer to the one most documented?

I still have not heard from anyone as to whether or not SK has ever spoken about religious overtones- whether in Macross or any other anime of his.

Look at Escaflowne... Human-like beings with the blood of "Dragons" running through them who have power and large white (dare I say "angelic"?) wings. and a slew of other things which would take us far off my question.

Edited June 28, 2004 by daeudi

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

And don't forget in episode 1 of macross tv series where Hikaru's VT102 crashes into studio Nue's building (he was half in gerwalk and half in battroid mode) where the little chimera animal's face on the sign actually changed! If you';ve got the dvd go and watch that part again if you must. Aha, the only way that is possible in the macross world is through magic! The ghosts of the dead ASS1 crew still live on and have possessed the bridge bunnys.. jk Somebody shiould ask SK whether the chimera on the sign of Studio Nue building was a hidden ghost/demon like Slimer in the ghostbusters lol

Edited June 29, 2004 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Roy Focker]

Really interesting but it looks like someone made a crack about a three different religons on the second page. Such a topic needs the consaint attention of a mod and it looks like we're too busy to give it that much attention so this topic is closed.