Space Ship One Launches tomorrow in Mojave,CA

[buddhafabio]

Well, I just watched the Discovery channel special on SS1. It was very interesting, I recommend it.

I have even more respect for those guys, they put NASA and the rest of the worlds space programs to shame. I don't mean in scale, but in sprit. I wonder how many years and billions of $$$ you'd add to get NASA to duplicate the same mission. (from development, testing and launching.)

Pretty incredible, you got USSR/Russia, USA, China(very recently) and Burt Rutan's group, the only space explorer's to date.

How does Japan, S. Korea, G. Bitain, Germany, France, Canada, Saudi Arabia etc,etc,etc (i.e. wealthy nations) explain they have either no space program or nothing more than shooting up probes? The world seems to lack the kind of pride,courage and spirit that a tiny group on a budget have been demonstating in the Mojave desert. True they humbled NASA a bit, but at least the U.S. has a NASA to humble.

If I were a Japanese taxpayer, I'd be saying WTF!? Compare Rutan's assets and say, Mitsubishi. Let alone the whole Japanese Government. Just a thought.

Anyway, I hope their 2nd launch today goes well. They have some brave pilots. Unmanned space flight is interesting, manned space fight is inspiring.

with his budget cuba, mexico, iraq and other third world nations could build it

[Pat S]

Why would these countries or companies want to go into space? They can leech off of NASA's hard work. There's not much out there of value for us.

The only way I see to make money in space is to commrcialize it for the masses. I won't be flying into space on a ship like SS1, no way. I'd much rather have NASA spend many billions of tax dollars designing something for us than a small commercial company.

NASA did this like 30 years ago, the x-planes. Sub orbital flight doesn't really have much application.

Edited October 4, 2004 by Pat S

[Renato]

This project proves a point that I always try to make... If it is government run it costs Billions and it doesn't work well (NASA), if it is privately run it costs almost nothing and runs well.

Lets hear it for the privatization of everything!

I quote the greatest man to ever walk the Earth:

Government isn't the solution to the problem, Government IS the problem.

Funny... The opposite is true if you are talking about the rail privatisation in the UK.

[Agent ONE]

This project proves a point that I always try to make... If it is government run it costs Billions and it doesn't work well (NASA), if it is privately run it costs almost nothing and runs well.

Lets hear it for the privatization of everything!

I quote the greatest man to ever walk the Earth:

Government isn't the solution to the problem, Government IS the problem.

Funny... The opposite is true if you are talking about the rail privatisation in the UK.

Just because one poor performing company screwed up, doesn't mean priviatization isn't the ultimate answer...

If you aren't willing to accept this example, (the subject of this thread) then maybe you will accept private versus public school performance, or possibly you can recall the last time you had to deal directly with a government representitave... such as going to the DMV. Now compare that with the average interaction of a for-profit company.

Besides privatization = competition and increased supply of given service thereby relieving demand which lowers price.

[Wabbit]

  How does Japan, S. Korea, G. Bitain, Germany, France, Canada, Saudi Arabia etc,etc,etc (i.e. wealthy nations) explain they have either no space program or nothing more than shooting up probes? The world seems to lack the kind of pride,courage and spirit that a tiny group on a budget have been demonstating in the Mojave desert.

Countries in bold are in ESA together with other European countries and they are planning manned missions into space, or more concrete, to the moon to build a permanent base that might act like a springboard to Mars. I'd like to see the private SS1 which did a wonderful job out there, do that with a tight budget.

True, the spirit is present in the SSL1 crew working often in their free time and on a low salary whereas government space agencies depend rather on politics than pioneering spirit, bravery and pride, which they certaintly don't have a lack of. Politicians are the bosses and they are not always having the same agenda all the time and need to juggle with their budget in a sluggish burocracy. Preparations for a manned missions to the moon might be scrapped by the next (leftish) EU government if they rather see the money goes to the relief of 'poor' economical immigrants whom flow like water into Italy in search for wealth, to pick a brunt example. Politicians decide here, not enthusiastic small private crews.

[buddhafabio]

i say privatization is the way to go, for 2 reasons, one they will do it any way and you cannot stop the small companys trying to make a name for them selves. Two they are using other peoples money where as nasa is using my money.

[ogami]

Time to save money! I want to visit the space once before I get too old...

[Final Vegeta]

Reagan was actually an economic disaster.

Do you know why gold is valuable? Because is rare. The same applies for money. What happens if someone is given some more money? He becomes richer. What happens if everyone has more money? They are all poorer due to strong inflation. The principle is that wealth is not measured by the number of dollars you have, it is measured by the share of dollars that you have out of the total number of dollars in the system.

That also means that if someone is becoming richer someone else is becoming poorer. In the US the richest 1% of households owns almost 40% of the entire wealth. The bottom 40% of US population owns well less than 40% of wealth as they were supposed to do: in fact, they owns 0.2% of US wealth.

What did Reagan do? Cut the taxes of riches. While they became wealthier the population became poorer even if they received their tax cut. This is the reality hidden behind tax cuts policy.

You can learn it better with this link

About privatisation... I smell some evil there, not necessarily but is there. In countries other than US usually public sanity is good and is free. Hell, in Iraq even education to all levels, home and food were free, and I don't know what else. Saddam was a tyrant but he put a lot of money in social expenses.

Privatisation means you have to pay welfare in full, and that means you can't have equality since low-income households can't afford to send their children to the better schools, so they can't get a decent job. Also lack of controls on corporations like how Reagan intended (I think it's called "deregulation") may mean you can have arsenic in your water and salmonella in your kid school food as a bundle, because US corporations don't care for anything other than short-sighted gain.

It would be good if there were alternatives to government run enterprises, but in no way I'll like full private enterprises of everything, or otherwise corporations will own the government. This is what is happening in the US. Only if you are rich you can become president in US, but if you are rich then you take order from some corporations. I hope I will be wrong but Kerry plans to keep US troops in Iraq until in 2008, right when another candidate will replace him so that US troops could actually remain forever in Iraq. US government cannot allow Iraq or OPEC countries selling oil in euro again. Under current conditions, I would actually like Bush get elected, because he could only wreck the already wrecked US economy strenghtening the euro, but I think people won't have choice in this and Kerry will be elected because otherwise Europe could start thinking of US as a rogue nation.

Anyway, one of the several reasons I've heard on why US invest so much in military is that military research and development is paid by taxpayers, and then military hands the projects for free to privates. Privates can make a profit without having paid any R&D at all. Life is easy if you are rich in the US. You should enjoy space turism, since it was paid with your money.

On the other hand, if space turism fails the anti-missile shield could always turn into space warfare for global domination. There is always a bright side for US.

The Greatest Story Never Told

1952 Korea

Estimating South Korean losses, Time Magazine indicates 400,000 civilians have been killed and 100,000 children made orphans in the U.S.'s triumphant, limited war. On the bright side, the editors emphasize that, "out of disaster has grown a tough army of 16 divisions, and a sense of manhood."

FV

[do not disturb]

Why would these countries or companies want to go into space?  They can leech off of NASA's hard work.  There's not much out there of value for us. 

no value huh?

you ever hear of the guy that took ownership of the moon as well as the other 8 planets? go talk to that billionare about how space has no value. you dont' know whats out there, so for all you know, they coudl find the next unlimited fuel source or something of that nature.

The only way I see to make money in space is to commrcialize it for the masses. I won't be flying into space on a ship like SS1, no way.

the dude(rich mofo) set up the x-prize(10 mil) so he could have a leg up when it comes time to commericialize space travel....i say 10 million is a pretty good investment since every kid growing up since the beginning of time has wanted to be an astronaut or fly in to space. i'm a grown ass man and i still want to go.

I'd much rather have NASA spend many billions of tax dollars designing something for us than a small commercial company.

so you'd rather have NASA's stupid ass spending our tax dollars(which could be better spent on anything else) instead of some super rich dude who fronting all his money? what are you smoking and can i get some?

[Agent ONE]

... an economic disaster.

Your definition of disaster is my definition of success. The people who deserve it were rewarded... The loosers cried about it. The 'have-nots' are always bitching about distribution of wealth but never better themselves.

I don't give a sh!t about them.

[Hiriyu]

This topic should now be closed. These arguments have no place here.

[do not disturb]

This topic should now be closed. These arguments have no place here.

this topic is more than just one topic....like every other thread that gets started here. if it bothers you, don't read them and move along.

[Dangard Ace]

Section III: Never Allowed

#1. No religious or political debates.

If you want to talk politics go to the proper outside forum. Not everyone shares your beliefs. Nothing starts more arguments then these kinds of debates. They have value but they have no value here.

[Major Johnathan]

This topic, manned space flight and the beginning of private ventures, seems perfectly appropriate for this forum.

It's posts like Final Vegeta's that seem to have nothing to do with the topic and is filled with political propaganda. I'm always amazed to see a bonafide Kim-Jong-Il /Saddam Hussein fan. Very 'informative' indeed.

[do not disturb]

This topic, manned space flight and the beginning of private ventures, seems perfectly appropriate for this forum.

It's posts like Final Vegeta's that seem to have nothing to do with the topic and is filled with political propaganda. I'm always amazed to see a bonafide Kim-Jong-Il /Saddam Hussein fan. Very 'informative' indeed.

LOL! whenever you see the words "government", "president", "economics" and/or mention of other country names, and the post is more than 3 lines long, you've gotten too political.

back on topic....and not being too political,

once they have some commercial flights into space, i'm in.

[McKlown]

So how long before we see a retail version of the remote control Spaceship One model the guys were flying around on the Discovery Channel special?