End of the Jolly Rogers Tomcats, final deployment.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

I'm sure people reacted the same way when VF-84 switched from F-8 to F-4s or from F-4s to F-14s. You can't let sentimentality stand in the way of progress. The F-18 is a perfectly good plane. Maybe not the coolest, but perfectly adequate. It's my opinion that the pilot is more important than the plane anyway. The AVG tought us that in WW2.

Yeah, perfectly adequate. Yup. Thats exactly what the US needs for air supremacy. Adaquate planes.

Yes very good point. For defense and supremacyyou need the BEST not somethinbg that will "oh yea this will do". And hell someone had to crash the party and represent the tomcat! and that person is ME. Again not all planes would be in maintenance hangers and also not all planes in a fighter squadron launch up all at once it is at intervals. Also a TU-126/95's ASM's have longer ranges than the AMRAAM does so with that in mind by the time the super bug gets a positive lock on on the bomber the ASM from the bomber will have already been launched. And its just a time to play catch up to all the ASM's. Is this possible? YES it is. It isn't "oh no shin that was uh yea like 80s threatrs" as long as the very threat EXISTS no matter HOWUNLIKELY it may sound there needs to be a good defense against that. And a lot of you may say "oh well a tomcat is uhg ytea kuz uh phoneix missle oh yea phioniex": but see the tomcat is no way in hell like a F111B or a missleer. Not to mention the speed of the tomcat is faster than the superbug and most importantly RANGE.

Sorry for making another antihornet post but lets be realistic tomcats ROCK

Come on now, seriously. There are no bombers. All the Tomcat has been doing for the past 10 years is drop bombs and take photos, two jobs it was never intended for. I think you see through rose tinted glasses. Sure the Tomcat rocked in it's day, but it's day is over. I'm no Hornet lover but it's a good plane all the same and if it gets the job done for less of my tax dollars that's good enough for me. The reality of logistics is that the older the airframe gets the more maitenace hours are required to keep it flying. It's time to put the old war horsees out to pasture.

nope the ukraine has some and who is to say that no rogue nation will buy a bomber like that? And also who is to say a flanker can't carry those ASM's? Do you realize how many nations use the flanker? The adder missle on flankers and fulcrums outranges the AMRAAM on super bugs. ANd you are wrong the tomcat WAS meant to be a dual role bomber it was always like that it was just never used until the late 80s and recently. TARPS pod was added and UNLIKE the super hornet, does NOT need removal of a internal gun or whatnot to accomodate, you just bolt the pod on. In fact all the super tomcats that were made or remanufactured are wired to carry a TARPS pod.

And again the only plane I think can replace the tomcat and succeed it in EVERY way is tomcat 21 or a larget stealth multirole strike fighter ALL new. Asa amtter of fact if the next new navy plane was replacing the tomcat and it had all the above qualities i really wouldnt care that it was replacing the tomcat, because at least it would be doing everything BETTER.. The fact of the matter is the super hornet cant do what the tomcat can do. The supoer hornet is a good plane but its just like you said adequate. SUpremacy is not dictated by whats adegquate its dictated by whats BEST.

Hopefully the plane that replaced the super hornet is some be all end all big multirole strike fighter that can outdo the tomcat as well.

[David Hingtgen]

Time to decry the Shornet!

Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom:

The most common Super Hornet load-out was 4 fuel tanks and a buddy refueling pod.

The most common Tomcat load-out was a bunch of bombs and targeting pods.

Regulars Hornet's usually carried a very mixed load, 1 of everything. (A Harm, a JDAM, an AMRAAM, a clusterbomb, etc)

Super Hornets spent 90% of their time refueling Tomcats and non-Super Hornets, that's all they're good for. (Yes, they do rock at close-in air combat, but that's not what an F-14 replacement should be doing)

If the Bionic Bug's so good, why were the Tomcats and Hornet-C's out doing the bombing?

Finally---once the Tomcat started bombing, they quickly proved to be VERY good at it. Exactly the same as the F-15E. Not officially designed for it, but once they activated the latent bombing capability, they realized that a large, powerful fighter makes for a great bomber. Sheer size---greater payload/range, and a more stable platform.

Edited June 19, 2004 by David Hingtgen

[Opus]

OK I'm done playing devil's advocate. You Win. For now......................

[David Hingtgen]

Devil's Advocate is fun! Maybe someday I'll just shock everybody and have a long argument FOR the F-18F.

[Nightbat]

Devil's Advocate is fun! Maybe someday I'll just shock everybody and have a long argument FOR the F-18F.

Don't worry,... we'll remember these words....forever

[Opus]

Devil's Advocate is fun!  Maybe someday I'll just shock everybody and have a long argument FOR the F-18F. 

Don't worry,... we'll remember these words....forever

And so my evil seed is planted. Muahahahahahaha.....

[KingNor]

i'm a little confused. is the F-14 being completely retired? or just from this squadron... or is this the only f-14 squadron left?

[David Hingtgen]

It's almost completely gone, but this is the only squadron left anyone really cares about. Current last Tomcat date is Fall 2006. But it keeps getting bumped up.

[Lightning]

It's almost completely gone, but this is the only squadron left anyone really cares about. Current last Tomcat date is Fall 2006. But it keeps getting bumped up.

of course, Cheney's plan has always been to kill the F-14, so his last act while HE's in office will be to have the last squadron of F-14's transition over to the Bug.

[the white drew carey]

Hows this look?

[Angel's Fury]

It's almost completely gone, but this is the only squadron left anyone really cares about.  Current last Tomcat date is Fall 2006.  But it keeps getting bumped up.

of course, Cheney's plan has always been to kill the F-14, so his last act while HE's in office will be to have the last squadron of F-14's transition over to the Bug.

Damn him!!!

[legios]

Tomcat bubbas forced themselves into early retirement. The plane took a lot of man hours to fly and maintain (much more than hornets...super or not), and their percentage of "full mission capable" birds was abysmmal. However, despite that fact, tomcats fulfullled an important role and so were planned to be phased out gradually as the E/F's came on line.

Well, there were a few tomcat pilots that figured since the plane was being retired anyway, they might as well try to break a few. In case you're wondering, the operational G, airspeed, etc limits are lower than the actual limits of the airframe. This is to reduce the stress placed on the airframe over the lifetime of the aircraft. Well, these pilots went out and did some dangerous, stupid stuff and really did break a few aircraft (and a few flight rules as well).

These incidents embarrassed the navy and cost it quite a bit of money. Since the Navy always considered Tomcat aircrew to be kind of "uncontrollable prima donnas" (and they kind of are), the powers that be figured it would be cheaper in the long run to simply retire the Tomcat as soon as possible...even if all the E/F's weren't ready.

[Coota0]

I feel bad for the RIOs, they're going to be out of a job (well at least a bunch of them)

[Marso]

Tomcat bubbas forced themselves into early retirement. The plane took a lot of man hours to fly and maintain (much more than hornets...super or not), and their percentage of "full mission capable" birds was abysmmal. However, despite that fact, tomcats fulfullled an important role and so were planned to be phased out gradually as the E/F's came on line.

Well, there were a few tomcat pilots that figured since the plane was being retired anyway, they might as well try to break a few. In case you're wondering, the operational G, airspeed, etc limits are lower than the actual limits of the airframe. This is to reduce the stress placed on the airframe over the lifetime of the aircraft. Well, these pilots went out and did some dangerous, stupid stuff and really did break a few aircraft (and a few flight rules as well).

These incidents embarrassed the navy and cost it quite a bit of money. Since the Navy always considered Tomcat aircrew to be kind of "uncontrollable prima donnas" (and they kind of are), the powers that be figured it would be cheaper in the long run to simply retire the Tomcat as soon as possible...even if all the E/F's weren't ready.

Do you have a link to a story or info on this? I'm a former Naval Aviator (P-3 pilot, not jets) and I never heard anything about this. I'd like to see more.

Thanks.

[David Hingtgen]

Coota---all F-14's (except a few) are being replaced with F-18F's. Most F-14 RIO's will become F-18 RIO's. The Navy really likes 2-seaters for their "high-end" fighters.

[Coota0]

Coota---all F-14's (except a few) are being replaced with F-18F's. Most F-14 RIO's will become F-18 RIO's. The Navy really likes 2-seaters for their "high-end" fighters.

Didn't realize that, I thought about half the squadrons were getting "E" models. My mistake

[KingNor]

i'm really sad, i grew up watching the f-14's dogfight each other while we were living on base in the phillippines

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Tomcat bubbas forced themselves into early retirement.  The plane took a lot of man hours to fly and maintain (much more than hornets...super or not), and their percentage of "full mission capable" birds was abysmmal.  However, despite that fact, tomcats fulfullled an important role and so were planned to be phased out gradually as the E/F's came on line.

Well, there were a few tomcat pilots that figured since the plane was being retired anyway, they might as well try to break a few.  In case you're wondering, the operational G, airspeed, etc limits are lower than the actual limits of the airframe.  This is to reduce the stress placed on the airframe over the lifetime of the aircraft.  Well, these pilots went out and did some dangerous, stupid stuff and really did break a few aircraft (and a few flight rules as well).

These incidents embarrassed the navy and cost it quite a bit of money.  Since the Navy always considered Tomcat aircrew to be kind of "uncontrollable prima donnas" (and they kind of are), the powers that be figured it would be cheaper in the long run to simply retire the Tomcat as soon as possible...even if all the E/F's weren't ready.

Do you have a link to a story or info on this? I'm a former Naval Aviator (P-3 pilot, not jets) and I never heard anything about this. I'd like to see more.

Thanks.

well Legios is a E-2 pilot, least thats what I remember him telling me(if i named the wrong plane forgive me it has been a while), so with that in mind operating in tandem with the Tomcats and coordianting them, I am sure he knows what he is talking about.

Sure the tomcat may be a maintenance hog but theres no denying its an awesome airplane. And for those who do not know I think the operational limits for the tomcat are as is

G limit +=6.5

speed=Mach 1.8 or mach 2/0 depending on altitude

AOA I do not know btu it has been flown to over 90 and I think up to 120 in testing.

I do believe the F/A-18F is a good plane and such and would be a great addition to eh navy, but the fact that it is replacing the tomcat I believe is unjustified.

before i bring up another online fighter plane brawl i shall resurrect the very thread meant for those.

and VIVA jolly rogers! lets hope dragons F-14A,WHEN IT COMES OUT, is a jolly roger

[Andy Roberts]

Well it is a sad day indeed.I guess it had to happen sooner than later. The f-14 is a pretty old plane, and it's time to put it to rest. I guess al things must die eventually, just look at the m-16. It's 40-some years old and it's just now starting to get retired.

Edited June 21, 2004 by Andy Roberts

[hellohikaru]

Sad day indeed. Perhaps even the E-2s will be replaced by some AEW Super Bug. They already done that to the S-3. Then finally all the helos will get replaced by a VTOL version of the Hornet.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

no E-2s are getting replaced by some common place multirole plane I believe. Not the hornet I know the E2 replacement is stealth I believe and not a fighter at all. Not sure where you got thhhhe idea of the supr bug replacing the viking thjough.

[Marso]

Tomcat bubbas forced themselves into early retirement.  The plane took a lot of man hours to fly and maintain (much more than hornets...super or not), and their percentage of "full mission capable" birds was abysmmal.  However, despite that fact, tomcats fulfullled an important role and so were planned to be phased out gradually as the E/F's came on line.

Well, there were a few tomcat pilots that figured since the plane was being retired anyway, they might as well try to break a few.  In case you're wondering, the operational G, airspeed, etc limits are lower than the actual limits of the airframe.  This is to reduce the stress placed on the airframe over the lifetime of the aircraft.  Well, these pilots went out and did some dangerous, stupid stuff and really did break a few aircraft (and a few flight rules as well).

These incidents embarrassed the navy and cost it quite a bit of money.  Since the Navy always considered Tomcat aircrew to be kind of "uncontrollable prima donnas" (and they kind of are), the powers that be figured it would be cheaper in the long run to simply retire the Tomcat as soon as possible...even if all the E/F's weren't ready.

Do you have a link to a story or info on this? I'm a former Naval Aviator (P-3 pilot, not jets) and I never heard anything about this. I'd like to see more.

Thanks.

well Legios is a E-2 pilot, least thats what I remember him telling me(if i named the wrong plane forgive me it has been a while), so with that in mind operating in tandem with the Tomcats and coordianting them, I am sure he knows what he is talking about.

I wasn't trying to imply he didn't. It was simply a request for more info.

[ewilen]

Dunno about the Hawkeye and Viking, but your "next Orion" is going to be a 737!

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/15/business/15arms.html

[David Hingtgen]

AFAIK the E-2 will still be around for a LONG time. S-3 is gone along with the Tomcat, as in very few years left.

F-14B/D operational speed limit is Mach 1.88 AFAIK, don't know what the A's is at the moment. Of course, that's still faster than a Bug in a dive.

Edited June 21, 2004 by David Hingtgen

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Tomcat bubbas forced themselves into early retirement.  The plane took a lot of man hours to fly and maintain (much more than hornets...super or not), and their percentage of "full mission capable" birds was abysmmal.  However, despite that fact, tomcats fulfullled an important role and so were planned to be phased out gradually as the E/F's came on line.

Well, there were a few tomcat pilots that figured since the plane was being retired anyway, they might as well try to break a few.  In case you're wondering, the operational G, airspeed, etc limits are lower than the actual limits of the airframe.  This is to reduce the stress placed on the airframe over the lifetime of the aircraft.  Well, these pilots went out and did some dangerous, stupid stuff and really did break a few aircraft (and a few flight rules as well).

These incidents embarrassed the navy and cost it quite a bit of money.  Since the Navy always considered Tomcat aircrew to be kind of "uncontrollable prima donnas" (and they kind of are), the powers that be figured it would be cheaper in the long run to simply retire the Tomcat as soon as possible...even if all the E/F's weren't ready.

Do you have a link to a story or info on this? I'm a former Naval Aviator (P-3 pilot, not jets) and I never heard anything about this. I'd like to see more.

Thanks.

well Legios is a E-2 pilot, least thats what I remember him telling me(if i named the wrong plane forgive me it has been a while), so with that in mind operating in tandem with the Tomcats and coordianting them, I am sure he knows what he is talking about.

I wasn't trying to imply he didn't. It was simply a request for more info.

oh ok. I guess I was trying to say he probably talked from experience with fellow pilots on deck. But if there is a report or more on the story I would also love to hear more about it! I never really heard of this until now the only similar thing I heard is of tomcat pilots threatened with court martials if they stood up against cheney after the cancellation of the tomcat.

I wonder which particular events embarrassed the navy?

[Oihan]

I want my very own F-14 I don't want to see them retire! The F-14 is the first plane I fell in love with! It's part of the reason why I love Macross. Bah...!