Need help getting acrylic paint to adhere

[David Hingtgen]

Ok, I have found out after switching to acrylics a little while ago that they utterly don't adhere to most bare plastics at all well. However, they stick to enamel paint like glue.

But, if I have to prime every kit by airbrushing enamel over it first, that pretty much eliminates all the benefits of acrylics--easy clean-up, and no strong solvents/thinners/smells. An airbrush clean-up session after using enamels is about the most hated thing there is for me, modeling-wise. And the mixing/thinning session beforehand is almost as bad. Also, 99% of my airbrushing experience is with acrylics, don't want to start over again.

Is there any way to get acrylics to adhere to bare plastic well, or is there some nice and easy way to primer kits? Acrylic primers are utterly worthless, they don't stick one bit better than acrylic paint.

PS--yes, I wash my parts before painting. Doesn't make the slightest bit of difference. It's the plastic and the paint, not any sort of mold release oil that's the problem.

Edited June 15, 2004 by David Hingtgen

[tetsujin]

I've heard that sanding the parts with a high-grit sandpaper can give the surface a bit more "tooth" to hold onto. I can sympathize, I've done a few projects this year hand-brushed acrylics on unprimed plastic, and I had hellish troubles at times. But I haven't had a chance to test out that technique yet to see if it has real merit. (Normally when I airbrush parts I prime them first with lacquer - for me the main advantage of acrylic is it's convenient to buy.)

...And, just to be sure, did you give the parts plenty of time to dry after washing them? Moisture can cause problems, too...

Edited June 16, 2004 by tetsujin

[VF-19]

Interesting. I've airbrushed with acyrilics (Tamiya's to be specific), and they don't seem really fragile. But then again, acyrilics aren't as durable as enamels or lacquer paints, so you do have to be careful with them. You might consider painting a top coat on them once the paint has dried.

[ewilen]

Maybe this is a dumb idea but I'll suggest it anyway: use spray paint enamel primer. At least you won't have to mix/thin/clean up.

[David Hingtgen]

Spray enamel works geat for a battleship hull, but not anything small or with crevices. And it's not nearly as smooth as airbrushing. Inherent orange peel. Lumpy base coat=lumpy top coat. Though I might experiment with various colors--spray 36118 is pretty nice, but too dark for just about every final color. I might just go with it anyways, unless I find something better. Tamiya spray cans are awesome, but the smell is the worst of any paint on the planet.

I have yet to *airbrush* *Tamiya* but hand-brushed Tamiya has only *slightly* better adhesion that hand-brushed Testors. As in, say, painting a cockpit sill black, or the instrument coaming, or an ejection seat.

Airbrushing vs hand brushing makes little difference, if any.

Of course, I read over at the finescale.com forums that one guy airbrushed Testor's acryl 36118 over bare plastic and it withstood duct tape.

I have read many people use Polly S plastic prep immediately before airbrushing. Any one have any experience with this?

[Neova]

Have you tried using clear top coats? When I painted my 1/48 parts with acrylics, I had to use a topcoat to seal in the paint. If not, it would wear itself off even with fingers rubbing it over time.

Using enamels didn't require much if any topcoat so long as there was enough paint, but the smell and clean up is a pain. I need to get my paint hood setup before I start using enamels again.

[David Hingtgen]

Well I went and took a look at my 20%? done USS Iowa and noticed that whatever "Testors in a can" base coat it has, it's a lot lighter and smoother than the Light Sea Grey I've been using lately. I THINK it might be Light Aircraft Grey, in the "regular" line not the MM line. Now I just have to find some, that's an uncommon color that not even many hobby shops have. But it does look much nicer than most any other "grey in a can". (It was over a year ago when I did my Iowa's primer coat---with tri-color camo on resin with a 5-color hull, you'd BETTER primer)

[Akula]

Games workshop primer... in BIG spraycans... "Chaos Black" or "Smelly White Primer"... works very well... it's great for mini figures, AND everything else... I use it alot for mini's and armour... so I assume it will work well for Aircraft, Though I have never tried it... just a little care not to overspray it and it should work great.

[Less than Super Ostrich]

Spray enamel works geat for a battleship hull, but not anything small or with crevices. And it's not nearly as smooth as airbrushing.

That's where you are wrong, David. You just need to use the right primer. Motomaster is very fine out of the spraycan and of a mid-tone quality of grey. It is much finer than Krylon, which most modeler's mistakenly use. I hear Duplicolor is also as fine as Motomaster... and the best part is that you can normally find them at an Autozone or Wal-Mart.

[Ghadrack]

Games workshop primer... in BIG spraycans... "Chaos Black" or "Smelly White Primer"... works very well... it's great for mini figures, AND everything else... I use it alot for mini's and armour... so I assume it will work well for Aircraft, Though I have never tried it... just a little care not to overspray it and it should work great.

Man I bought into the GW horsepoop about their "Special" primer for miniatures that won't fill in detail blah blah blah.

Well a few months ago my local retailer was sold out, so I went to the hardware store and picked up a can of Krylon spray primer and it works great, it doesn't fill in detail and was overall better quality paint for 2 dollars and 50 cents a can instead of the ten bucks GW charges. I used thin coats just like I do with the GW or armory brand stuff and the figures were primed perfectly.

If you don't believe my go pick up a can of the Krylon spray primer, make sure it is the kind for metal and plastic, and test it on a little figure I bet you won't be disappointed and it costs 1/3 to 1/4 of what GW charges.

I have to agree that spray primer is the way I go everytime and I solely paint with acrylics due to the ease of use, ease of clean up. I haven't come across anything that a careful spray primer coat couldn't handle without wiping out the detail.

[fernarias]

Easy, just use acrylic primer.

F.

[David Hingtgen]

Well I'm going out paint-shopping today, see what I can find.

Ghadrack--have a part number for the Krylon? There's about 50 different primers from them, I own several. Haven't actually tried #1318 yet (grey primer). Hope it's better than the white primer (1317 I think). Also, ALL kylon says metal and plastic, it just depends how big the lettering is.

Ostrich---how's Motomaster on plastic? Especially softer plastic. Also Duplicolor I thought was lacquer. If I was going to put up with the smell of lacquer, I'd go with Tamiya sprays.

Edited June 16, 2004 by David Hingtgen

[Ghadrack]

I'll try to remember to check when I get home tonight. I generally prefer gray primer unless I am painting something really bright colors in which case I will use white.

~Edit~ I just went to Krylon's site and looked it up, it is the 1318 gray that I have been using. Not sure what bad experiences you have had with the white, but I don't think the formula is going to be that different from the gray, I firmly believe that the weather/temperature/room conditions have a massive impact on the finish that you get out of the stuff.

In my opinion aside from using thin coats one of the most important factors in spray priming is the weather. If it is too humid, to hot or too cold you are going to get a really crappy finish. After a few horror stories I came to the conclusion that they don't put those directions regarding the temperature/conditions for priming on there to make the can prettier, and I plan my priming around the weather for the day (Since I don't have an indoor area appropriate for spray painting.)

Edited June 17, 2004 by Ghadrack

[David Hingtgen]

I too spray outside. Any tips for best results? What humidity, temp, etc?

[Less than Super Ostrich]

how's Motomaster on plastic? Especially softer plastic. Also Duplicolor I thought was lacquer. If I was going to put up with the smell of lacquer, I'd go with Tamiya sprays.

No problems on my Hasegawa's, Bandai's or resin kits.

[takatoys]

They say that when you paint a vinyl kit with enamel, the paint won't dry.

Well, I did not know that and painted a vinyl figure without priming using a testor spray can and the paint not only looks fine, it dried very quickly. I then painted another vinyl figure with enamel using an airbrush. The paint feels a bit sticky but it is holding well.

Now, I am afraid coz my next figure is really huge (24 inches tall) and I don't know what paint to use. I don't want to ruin such a big figure, so please let me know what should be the best thing to do.

Should I use an acrylic primer or enamel primer?