US Army gets new uniforms

[JsARCLIGHT]

Canteens are on his butt (lower back)... he could be carrying two for all we know as we could not see them either way. And before people say "extra magazines" he has those too, just look reaaaaaaally hard under his arms and behind the M4 and you'll see the edges of his carryall pouches.

As for the rifle according to Military appropriations that M4 is the best he can hope for for the next few years until the next gen combat rifles are tested and fielded... of course if Big Dick... Cheyney... would actually cancel a program that needed it and fast-track one that needed it he would be holding that new MBR right now. But all of Big Dick's money is invested in fighter planes and MREs right now.

Edit: Now that I stare at that pic long enough I think he has a camelback water system on that rig. That is either his drinking tube or his vox control for his headset on his left shoulder.

As for the two missing items: think "legs" and think "ouch"... and also think about what he'll do if that fancy M4 jams on him.

Edited June 16, 2004 by JsARCLIGHT

[bsu legato]

Yeah, I figured his canteen(s) would probably be behind his back, but I hate to assume seemingly obvious stuff like that. Call it the bitter lesson I've learned from dealing with salespeople.

As for his *ahem* rifle, it may be standard issue, but JsARC asked what he'd wish he had.

Personally, as I stand 6'2" I never thought the regular AR-15/M16 was too awkward, but then again I've never had to hump one up a hill or in and out of an APC. But I've always wondered why the US has never tried a configuration like the new C7A2. Diemaco has only started producing this rifle, but I've imagined something like it for years.

[fearyaks]

Err... it wouldn't be knee pads would it?

[vf1_soulja]

I dig the new BDUs, just hate the fact that I'll be shelling out some coin for a couple new sets, not to mention all the patches...

As far as the whole beret issue goes, I think the former Army COS, Gen Shinseki pushed for the black beret for everyone in the Army to instill an esprit de corps that elite units like the Rangers and SF enjoyed. Basically a way to increase morale.

The only berets in the Army that signify elite troops is the tan (Ranger) and green (SF) berets. The maroon (Airborne) beret really doesnt mean anything overall - there are a bunch of "dirty LEGS" serving in Airborne units. The only way to ID an Airborne troop is to see if he/she has wings on their chest. One good rule to tell a soldiers' qualifications is to check his left chest for "hooah" patches and left shoulder for the Ranger tab or long tab.

[Mechamaniac]

Feh, they can keep that little varmint cartridge. Give me a man's rifle chambered in 7.62 x 51MM NATO.

But that's a discussion for the Official Weapons Banter Thread.

[Mislovrit]

I'm surprised nobody commented on velcro on the uniform?

[Mechamaniac]

I'm surprised nobody commented on velcro on the uniform?

Velcro is not all bad...

When I was in the Army, I knew some Air Force pukes who would take their BDU's to the tailor, and have them DE-Buttoned, and fitted with Velcro. They weren't too stringent on the uniform regs as we were in the Army.

Velcro is OK if you're in garrison, but out in the field, nothing like ripping open a velcro secured pocket in the forest to make a distinctive sound and alert everyont to your exact position, that crap is loud!.

[Sundown]

Damn! Noriko beat me out with the Flag question... damn half hour drive home stupid traffic...

Helloo.. hellooo?

And is it me or is lots of the new gear starting to look crummier and crummier, from an aesthetic perspective? Yeah, I know the of our soldiers' is to kick arse and stay alive, not leave really good looking corpses in cool looking gear-- but I've always really liked the US woodland. The new stuff, digital camo, ugly tan boots, weirdly shaped helmets with none of the mean aesthetics of the good old K-pot-- have us looking more and more like foreign militaries, who's gear has never looked quite as snazzy.

This pic here looks soo... rag tag. German or Russian-like camo in digital, with a clashing tac vest. And the new Air Force BDU's are... well... *ugly*. Blue Vietnam Tigerstripe?! Sounds like a paintballer's wet dream. When's the last time the Air Force found itself in blue tropical jungle foilage-- not to mention that tigerstripe wasn't all that effective in the first place, even in green. I dunno... Air Force personel wearing woodland camo always gave even them a mildly badass look-- that they're US military, just like all the other branches. Wearing something that's actually marginally useful. Now it's like every branch wants to make their own fashion statement apart from the others. Maybe the Navy'll actually pick out something that doesn't look like "Me Too, but umm... Not really!"

Ah well. Such is progress.

-Al

[Sundown]

Velcro is OK if you're in garrison, but out in the field, nothing like ripping open a velcro secured pocket in the forest to make a distinctive sound and alert everyont to your exact position, that crap is loud!.

What's odd is that lots of military gear, custom made for high-speed low drag teams-- I'm talking about the stuff by the little custom shops that make things specifically for these folks-- still includes a fair amount of velcro.

I've a London Bridge Rifleman's Vest designed for and used heavily by Navy SEAL patrol teams-- and it's got big patches of velcro-- on the M203 grenade saddlepack pouches at least. Can't remember if the magazine pouches are fasted with velcro, but the attached canteen pouch isn't, and the butt pack might not be. Could be that they've used velcro only on the pouches you wouldn't be fiddling much with on patrol, and would only be reaching for when the poop hit the fan.

-Al

[JsARCLIGHT]

Err... it wouldn't be knee pads would it?

DING!

We have one correct missing item!

There is nothing in the world that hurts more than dropping down to your knees on hard cement, rocks or other nasty crap with a few pounds of gear on you in a hurry. Sure you don't notice it right away but after a while your knees get blown to hell and on a march it really, really hurts like a bitch.

The other missing item is a sidearm. Not all troops are qualified or issued sidearms but when I was a lad and heading out into the field the second thing on me was the sidearm. M9, in case that pos M16 jammed up you could do something other than throw your mags at the enemy.

... and on the beret issue (once again) let us not forget those valiant, uber elte Air Force Combat Air Controllers who also don the red/maroon beret... all those nice men earned that headwear.

Edit: there is also not enough tape on that new gear layout. Green tape (or in this case tan) is a grunt's best friend in the field. Tape down those hardpoints, tape down those pins and fer god's sake anderson tape down those darn snaps!... whoops, for a second there I channeled the spirit of the old platoon sergent.

Edited June 16, 2004 by JsARCLIGHT

[JsARCLIGHT]

Damn! Noriko beat me out with the Flag question... damn half hour drive home stupid traffic... 

Helloo.. hellooo?

Ah yes, but N's answered in the most clinical and shutupayouface manner that befits my usual tone.

[Zentrandude]

Damn! Noriko beat me out with the Flag question... damn half hour drive home stupid traffic... 

Helloo.. hellooo?

And is it me or is lots of the new gear starting to look crummier and crummier, from an aesthetic perspective? Yeah, I know the of our soldiers' is to kick arse and stay alive, not leave really good looking corpses in cool looking gear-- but I've always really liked the US woodland. The new stuff, digital camo, ugly tan boots, weirdly shaped helmets with none of the mean aesthetics of the good old K-pot-- have us looking more and more like foreign militaries, who's gear has never looked quite as snazzy.

This pic here looks soo... rag tag. German or Russian-like camo in digital, with a clashing tac vest. And the new Air Force BDU's are... well... *ugly*. Blue Vietnam Tigerstripe?! Sounds like a paintballer's wet dream. When's the last time the Air Force found itself in blue tropical jungle foilage-- not to mention that tigerstripe wasn't all that effective in the first place, even in green. I dunno... Air Force personel wearing woodland camo always gave even them a mildly badass look-- that they're US military, just like all the other branches. Wearing something that's actually marginally useful. Now it's like every branch wants to make their own fashion statement apart from the others. Maybe the Navy'll actually pick out something that doesn't look like "Me Too, but umm... Not really!"

Ah well. Such is progress.

-Al

im guessing you want something utilitarian like all grey/blue grey and perhaps bulky like powered armor like in sci-fi shows.

[Sundown]

im guessing you want something utilitarian like all grey/blue grey and perhaps bulky like powered armor like in sci-fi shows.

Nah. Just a fan of Woodland, and gear that both looks good and looks like it's meant to work together. 90's era military gear looks fantastic, and some of the stuff guys are wearing in Afghanistan and Iraq look decent enough.

I rather hate the blue, really. On a soldier it screams cheese, while grey screams Nazi, and we can't have any of that.

Ah yes, but N's answered in the most clinical and shutupayouface manner that befits my usual tone. 

*Sobs.*

-Al

[Akilae]

Dunno much about BDUs... but if they're wearing something that *I* footed the bill for, then it better be worth it. One question I DO have though: what advances are being made in terms of winter gear? Are we heading towards Gore-Tex and the latest in mandmade fabrics, or would the Army break out the heavy wool stuff when it comes to fighting in sub-zero temperatures? It just seems so long since the US has had to fight in cold climates that you don't actually see much of winter gear.

As for dress uniforms... I heard once that the Navy actually has a pretty decent design. Got a friend who got all hot and bothered seeing guys in Navy whites (it's a she btw, just in case there's any confusion about that).

[Lightning]

Hopefully the AF follows suit as well.

Actually, the AF already has a new pattern. It's a grey, blue, and green tiger stripe BDU. It looks REMARKABLY similar to the Russian "Berezka" pattern. It came out in February, I think. I'll see if i can find a pic...

here you go:

just one problem with that pic. She's part of the Security Forces on each of the bases. So the USAF hasnt went to the total beret thing yet. (i definately know 'cause i just got out of BMT in early April (Medical Separation, but at least they paid me for my time in))

[Noriko Takaya]

As for the two missing items: think "legs" and think "ouch"... and also think about what he'll do if that fancy M4 jams on him.

I'm also thinking "cough" and "wheeze" Where's his gas mask? As to "ouch" what about the ceramic plate or whatever the hell it is they are using as a trauma plate for the ballistic vests? Then again, you're talking to an old grunt who actually used the olive drab post-Vietnam flak jackets and steel pots before they came out with the Kevlar PAGST system.

As for the M9 (bayonet), I have one and hate it. I'm getting the new M10 bayonet to try it out and see if it is really worth all that. Then again, maybe I'll just get a new Ka-Bar. As for that POS M9 pistol, you can keep it. Eh, I guess it is better than throwing rocks.

As for waiting for my M16A2 to jam on me, I did not have that problem. I was an automatic rifleman, and carried an M249 SAW. I really miss that machinegun...

Edited June 16, 2004 by Noriko Takaya

[JsARCLIGHT]

Gas Mask? You don need no steenking Gas Mask! (usually the first thing tossed out of your kit upon combat deployment and the first thing missed when you need it)

The trauma insert plates are most likely in that vest... hiding... nice and heavy-like.

... and they would only give me an M9... sniff... poor little gun... who has you now I wonder? The dumpster out behind the armory most likely.

Edit: M9 bayonet? Noooooo! I used to cut soooo much wire with mine! And how can you make the "pass the buck" jokes without the M9?

Edited June 16, 2004 by JsARCLIGHT

[Noriko Takaya]

Ah, the M9 bayonet really ain't all bad. I just not a big fan of the design. The USMC gave up their old M7's for the M9, and found they did not like it. I guess they figured that Marines did not need to cut wire or hammer nails with it, just kill people. Hence the design of the M10, which is exclusive to the Corps. The damned thing even has the eagle, globe, and anchor in the handle. Here's a pic:

[Mechamaniac]

LOL the M9 Beretta. I had occasion to carry both the M1911A1, and later the M9 Beretta when I was an MP. I must say, the Beretta was much more accurate than the centuries old Remington Rand 1911, however, I have a soft spot for old slabsides.

And I too was a machine gunner like Noriko, cept I miss my PIG, my big old heavy M-60. I do love to rock and roll.

As to the BFK (Big frakkin Knife), the M9 bayonet is a piece of crap, I much prefer my Gerber BMF, or a good old fashioned K-Bar.

And JSA is correct on the gas mask thing, pieces of crap they are. The funny thing is that if you have ever done a full MOPP swap out in the field, you realize how wholly fraked you really would be in the event of a real NBC attack. Funnier still is that the MOPP gear that we use has never been tested in live combat, so they estimate that you get 12 hours out of it before you have to swap out, but noone really knows.

Edited June 16, 2004 by Mechamaniac

[fearyaks]

Found an image of the Navy's new uniform... heart-print optional! You'll notice there is no longer a neckerchief required and no sign of that controversial beret

[Anubis]

LOL the M9 Beretta.  I had occasion to carry both the M1911A1, and later the M9 Beretta when I was an MP.  I must say, the Beretta was much more accurate than the centuries old Remington Rand 1911, however, I have a soft spot for old slabsides.

And I too was a machine gunner like Noriko, cept I miss my PIG, my big old heavy M-60.  I do love to rock and roll.

As to the BFK (Big frakkin Knife), the M9 bayonet is a piece of crap, I much prefer my Gerber BMF, or a good old fashioned K-Bar.

And JSA is correct on the gas mask thing, pieces of crap they are.  The funny thing is that if you have ever done a full MOPP swap out in the field, you realize how wholly fraked you really would be in the event of a real NBC attack.  Funnier still is that the MOPP gear that we use has never been tested in live combat, so they estimate that you get 12 hours out of it before you have to swap out, but noone really knows. 

even the newer jlist chem suits still are a bitch. They really expect you to surive in the desert wearing this stuff.

Die quick from NBC, or die long and painfully/get heat stroke from waering the chem gear too long.

The gas masks do suck. They do their job at keeping the bad chemicals away, but there's no way you would be able to do anything heavy in real life mopp4.

Can't see anything, and can't move very well wearing that gear. The damning thing is, the Jlist suits are miles beyond the crappy old chem gear that got charcoal all over you, and weighed more. Think about Ski wear level thick stuff in the summer.

During exercises, they often allowed for a heat option, allowing you to not wear your bdu top or just wear a t-shirt + shorts if it was uber hot. Bad sign.

In korea they took any advantage of the lighter jlist suits away by making you wear a flack jacket during the exercise. All the time.

Edited June 16, 2004 by Anubis

[Nani?!]

Hmm,

I'm surprised we're discussing military in a macross forum.

I was a Marine a couple of years ago and I wore both the old BDU's and the new MARPAT BDU's first issued back in summer '02.

The new one's takes some gettin used to but it grew on me the more I wore it. it's feels a lot tougher than the old ones, and though at first sight doesn't look as squared away as the old, it looks sharp. I like the angled blouse pockets they have, and my favorite one was the desert camo.

Looks like the army finally jumped on the bandwagon with the digital camo. But I must agree with some of the post here regarding the velcro and the zipper. Though I highly doubt any adequate trained army soldier would take off any of his gear during combat situations (ESPECIALLY when he has to lay low and keep shut), why the hell would you want to put velcro and a zipper on a BDU? That gives two ways an Army soldier could make noise and give away his and his squad's position.

I guess the guidlines the army gave the contractors weren't as squared away as the Marine corps... In all logic they should be, and I KNOW them army people have the money to get the best, but why velcro? Maybe it's because I'm a leatherneck, but I don't understand why. They'll probably end up changing it with different variations later.

Anyway whatever, it's not like a marine battalion would mix in with army anyway.

[Nani?!]

As for waiting for my M16A2 to jam on me, I did not have that problem. I was an automatic rifleman, and carried an M249 SAW. I really miss that machinegun...

I second that...

I didnt get to fire it much but the SAW really lights it up.

Made my m16 sound like a a pea shooter, and I thought even THAT was loud back in boot camp.

The sound alone would scare the crap out of any opposing forces within it's range.

I never got to fire an M4, but I heard it lacks stopping power. I guess that's why the corps went with the M16A4 instead of it as their new rifle.

[GreatMoose]

As far as the knee pads go, he may actually have them. Apparently the new BDUs have slots in the knees and elbows for internal pads. Just FYI.

[Druna Skass]

I don't know, like some people brought up, it doesn't really look "American" to me, hell it almost looks straight up Russian to me. Ah well, as long as it can help them stay alive just that much longer.

Besides I'm just the tax payer, all I do is give them the money and they do what ever the hell they want with it and not bother asking me.

[JsARCLIGHT]

As far as the knee pads go, he may actually have them. Apparently the new BDUs have slots in the knees and elbows for internal pads. Just FYI.

Oooooh, hey. That is actually pretty neat. Those darn knee pads would move around on you given time and a lot of movement but having them built into your pants might solve that.

... oh and if the american taxpayers were allowed to have any input on military gear we most likely would not have a military and be speaking german or chinese right now. I trust the folks designing and making the equipment for the most part... they have dropped the occasional turd on the troops before but just imagine what would happen if congress, or worse yet, a popular vote chose equipment designs? You'd get GAP combat capris, DKNY web gear, a retro '70s thin sider shirt, topped off with a custom painted BELL motorcycle helmet with a less-than-leathal Old Navy brand whiffle ball bat at your side. Still over budget, still not the best but at least those denim boot cut PHRs will look so stylish as they come back from the combat zone. Now that sure strikes fear into me.

[Druna Skass]

... oh and if the american taxpayers were allowed to have any input on military gear we most likely would not have a military and be speaking german or chinese right now. I trust the folks designing and making the equipment for the most part... they have dropped the occasional turd on the troops before but just imagine what would happen if congress, or worse yet, a popular vote chose equipment designs? You'd get GAP combat capris, DKNY web gear, a retro '70s thin sider shirt, topped off with a custom painted BELL motorcycle helmet with a less-than-leathal Old Navy brand whiffle ball bat at your side. Still over budget, still not the best but at least those denim boot cut PHRs will look so stylish as they come back from the combat zone. Now that sure strikes fear into me. 

But hey, look at it this way, if they bothered to ask David Hintegen we just might have that upgraded F-14 or a Naval ATF.

I trust the designers, I just don't trust the politicians...

Edited June 16, 2004 by Druna Skass

[Opus]

OK it's time for another ex-grunt's opinion.

When I first saw the new uniform I was very against it. As I've had time to get used to it I see that my only objections are aesthetic. This thing was designed by soldiers who know what they want and need. I like the new pocket positions. As for the velcro and zippers I don't see that as a problem they don't make that much noise and it's way better than having buttons digging into you under your armor. As for the mismatching vests and insignia, I'm sure once these unis go into production those will become available in the same pattern just like the Marine's stuff. The only thing I really object to now is the high collar. It looks uncomfotable as hell. They should have used a design that could have been left open without looking sloppy.

On the subject of berets. I was a Ranger and I still think berets are fruity looking no matter how much of a badass the wearer is.

Another thing. I could never understand why they don't make military kneepads more like skateboarding pads with the stretchy sleeve thing on the back. I guess it's too practical.

[ewilen]

... oh and if the american taxpayers were allowed to have any input on military gear we most likely would not have a military and be speaking german or chinese right now.[...]

I disagree--if American voters had direct input into military gear it would probably LOOK post-Aliens badass. Whether it would work any better than GAP/Old Navy stuff is an entirely separate question. Probably not.

[Nani?!]

On the subject of berets. I was a Ranger and I still think berets are fruity looking no matter how much of a badass the wearer is.

I agree, berets look whack... not to mention that it's not really practical in the field... so wearing it with your BDU seems solely for aesthetic purposes.

I like the boonie cover the best. Our standard covers also looked sharp.

[Zentrandude]

... oh and if the american taxpayers were allowed to have any input on military gear we most likely would not have a military and be speaking german or chinese right now.[...]

I disagree--if American voters had direct input into military gear it would probably LOOK post-Aliens badass. Whether it would work any better than GAP/Old Navy stuff is an entirely separate question. Probably not.

hehe to quote hudson. "im the state of the bad ass art."

for the knives my frav would be my mk3 but my m10 looks cool too.

anybody have any pics of the interceptor armor that would go over the new uniform?

[Opus]

On the subject of berets. I was a Ranger and I still think berets are fruity looking no matter how much of a badass the wearer is. 

I agree, berets look whack... not to mention that it's not really practical in the field... so wearing it with your BDU seems solely for aesthetic purposes.

I like the boonie cover the best. Our standard covers also looked sharp.

I don't like the boonies that much. The brim always seems to be in the way. I preferred the standard fatigue hat sometimes referred to as a ranger cap.

My fav knife is an Ontario aviator's suvival kinfe. I took it to Iraq with me and I sent it back over there with my brother. Those things are indestructable.

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

... oh and if the american taxpayers were allowed to have any input on military gear we most likely would not have a military and be speaking german or chinese right now.[...]

I disagree--if American voters had direct input into military gear it would probably LOOK post-Aliens badass. Whether it would work any better than GAP/Old Navy stuff is an entirely separate question. Probably not.

If you let the fanboys choose, the troops will be carrying Katanas, the SAW would have 6 barrels and the gas-masks come with 2 red LEDs.

Edited June 17, 2004 by Retracting Head Ter Ter

[JsARCLIGHT]

Not to derail the thread or anything but I still stick to my guns about leaving the military to the military and not the taxpayers... after all, the vast majority of taxpayers are neither "educated" in what they might be voting on or aware of what things do and how well they work. We are talking about people who 90% of the time vote their checkbook... the same people who vote down raises for teachers, funds for parks and other such things. Ask them if they want to give the army new clothes and tell them how much it will cost and it will be voted down faster than a medicare law change. But I digress...

As for the knee pad thing the reasons the army pads use buckes are obvious. Ever try to get one of those stretchy pads off? Especially over boots? Now just imagine the guy wearing that pad just took an AK round to the leg... they would have to cut the pad off, thus "destroying" a nice piece of military gear. The buckles are uncomfortable and ungangly but they go on fast and come off fast.

Also back on the beret issue, they are not really meant for combat or field deployment. I myself was partial to a good old boonie hat (when away from the brass as if they caught you in action without your helmet on you would catch hell)... the only folks I remember wearing their berets everywhere where the original Green Berets. Those guys would even go back into a hot area just to recover their cover if it fell off!

Edited June 17, 2004 by JsARCLIGHT

[Druna Skass]

See that's the thing I hate about message boards, hard to get sarcasm around...