US Army gets new uniforms

[David Hingtgen]

http://www4.army.mil/news/article.php?story=6042

Matte tan boots are certainly better for the desert than shiny black...

Anyways--you know, the Air Force and Navy spent 50 years finding out that patterns of grey was the best camo for almost any plane in any condition, strange that it took until now for that idea to make it into uniforms. There is no desert camo for an F-15 you know, grey is still the best. Even the RAF doesn't repaint Tornados into desert camo anymore, they paint them grey now for Gulf service. And you'll see plenty of grey tanks in the Gulf nowadays.(Marines)

[Mechamaniac]

Jeez, what was wrong with my good old fashioned BDU's!

Seriously, whatever works best, and the guys are most comfortable in is fine with me, but DAMN, the Army really has to redo the sew on qualification badges, those shitty green patches sewn on make it look like we're some third world, ragtag army that can't afford it's own uniforms.

BTW - I'm still pissed that they adopted the beret as the standard headgear AFTER I got out .

[JsARCLIGHT]

I'm not really a fan of the new "digital" camoflage pattern myself. Sure it may "work" if you squint hard enough just like any camo but it just comes off as fruity to me. Combine that with the new BDU layout and our troops look more like something out of Universal Soldier or hollywood than they do an effective fighting unit. Why did they not just invest in some nice realtree camo or something a bit more "conventional"? Plus with the new centerline rank patches and collar/pocket layout they look more British now then they do American.

As for the whole beret issue I feel that giving everyone a beret is just more of the "everyone wins and everyone gets to feel speical" treatment. I remember a time in the military when just the sight of a beret was an automatic sign that the wearer was someone special... (see sig below for better explaination)... but nowadays you have REMFs wearing the beret, Milspec Accountants wearing the beret, Grease Monekys wearing the beret...

[Mechamaniac]

I remember a time in the military when just the sight of a beret was an automatic sign that the wearer was someone special... (see sig below for better explaination)... but nowadays you have REMFs wearing the beret, Milspec Accountants wearing the beret, Grease Monekys wearing the beret...

So, just being in the Army, or any branch of the military for that matter isn't a reason to think you're someone special?.

I understand the position of those who wore the berets before hand, but there are other ways to distinguish members of elite units, the SF wear their unit patch behind the SF emblem or rank for example. Really, the only group this "infringed" upon were the Rangers since they were the ones who tradtionally wore the Black beret. The could just as easily be distinguished by wearing the Ranger tab on the beret, or perhaps with a slash of red ribbon or something to indicate that they stand out from the rest.

Sorry, but the Army has needed a makeover for a while. Particularly in their dress uniform department. I used to joke with my fellow soldiers whenever we had an inspection that I looked about as good as one could while wearing a green polyester suit. The Army class-A's were designed in the late 60's, complete with wide lapels and all (Groovy man!).

I for one wish they would revert to the old WWII style Class A's and Class B's with the belted coat, that was a nice looking uniform.

[JsARCLIGHT]

The beret thing bothered me since day one as the beret, in the american army and a few others, has traditionally been a symbol of elite status. The first american troops to don the beret where the special forces boys in vietnam and they wore it before it was even permitted as part of the uniform. The military changed it's own regs to give the "Green Berets" their green beret as a formal part of the uniform. Several other branches soon followed like the Rangers, the Air Force Combat Controllers and others. The beret was a badge in and of itself. The beret was a mark of accomplishment and courage... besides looking totally froo froo. You never see a self-respecting SEaL wearing a beret do you?

My point is the beret itself is the symbol of elite status, not a patch or a button or a pin. I can understand making everyone feel special and happy and better about themselves but let's face it, if you are a rear echellon mother farker loading boxes onto a flatbed you have no business being as special or as "fancy" as a guy who dumps out of a plane a mile up behind enemy lines on a special op. Next thing you know they will start promoting everyone to Sgt. like they do for the special ops people just so everyone can have a rank now. Most of the ex-SF people I know have the same opinion I do. They suffered through a lot of blood, sweat and tears to get that beret and now they are handing them out like cracker-jack prizes. Sure an army person can tell a "real" beret from the normal cannon fodder "black berets" out there but it still takes the whole notion of the beret down a notch. To me, it is just a ploy to get more people to join the RA... "now EVERYONE gets a beret!" "Join the army, see the world, load boxes on a truck... wear a beret."

Why not just give everyone the old Zouave headdresses or civil war sloutch hats? If they want the common box pitcher to feel special why not give him a giant snoopy hat or a big gold bar on his guts that says "AVERAGE JOE"? Everyone in the military cannot be "special", you have to work hard and be on of the elites to be "special"... then again if modern wars are like vietnam that means the snipers aiming for the berets will have soooooo much more work to do.

[Mechamaniac]

Nice to see you have such a high opinion of those "box pitchers" who keep your elite friends fed and clothed in the long run. . Let's not forget that even those "box pitchers" went through a pretty fair amount of blood, sweat and tears just to become "box pitchers".

I speak from both sides of the fence, I held three MOS's when I was in the active Army, and the reserves for 8 years. I have held both REMF, and Combat Arms MOS's, and it doesn't bother me.

But I guess, not being "elite" I'm not entitled to an opinion. I guess I'll just go back to pitching boxes full of all the signal and voice intelligence I gathered when I was a lowly REMF, and I'll pitch them to the scumbags, and POW's I handled when I was an MP.

[bsu legato]

Besides...we all know that the new uniform is copied from the Canadian CADPAT uniform.

[Anubis]

Every army guy just jumped for joy at no more boot polishing.

Hopefully the AF follows suit as well.

The new uniforms look pretty slick. I remember the marine's version that they already have, they have black in addition on the pattern, and it looks pretty cool.

Very smart uniform updates, and about time I say. I wonder if the patch placement is the same?

I saw a History channel special about camoflouge and these digital prints, even though they may not look it at first glance, are WAY better than the existing camo. Both during the day, and especially at night. Also much better than the existing when night vision is applied.

These uniforms are a win-win situation. Easier uniforms to don, supposedly more comfortable, doing away with the polished boots, and all for a more effective uniform.

Kudos to something being done right with no cost complaints.

Also: wrinkle free fabric=easier to iron=every boot trainee and tech school pvt will have a much easier time in line-up.

Uniform changes include:

1. Mandarin collar that can be worn up or down

2. Rank insignia centered on the front of the blouse

3. Velcro for wearing unit patch, skill tabs and recognition devices

4. Zippered front closure

5. Elbow pouch for internal elbow pad inserts

6. Knee pouch for internal knee pad inserts

7. Draw string leg cuff

8. Tilted chest pockets with Velcro closure

9. Three-slot pen pocket on bottom of sleeve

10. Velcro sleeve cuff closure

11. Shoulder pockets with Velcro

12. Forward tilted cargo pockets

13. Integrated blouse bellows for increased upper body mobility

14. Integrated Friend or Foe Identification Square on both left and right shoulder pocket flap.

15. Bellowed calf storage pocket on left and right leg

16. Moisture-wicking desert tan t-shirt

17. Patrol Cap with double thick bill and internal pocket

18. Improved hot-weather desert boot or temperate-weather desert boot

19. Two-inch, black nylon web belt

20. Moisture-wicking socks

In the words of Ash: "Welcome to the 21st century."

Edited June 15, 2004 by Anubis

[JsARCLIGHT]

Nice to see you have such a high opinion of those "box pitchers" who keep your elite friends fed and clothed in the long run. . Let's not forget that even those "box pitchers" went through a pretty fair amount of blood, sweat and tears just to become "box pitchers".

What I was saying is the folks in the mud with the blood deserve all the badges, hats, buttons and honor they have. They earned it. But to put a beret, an official and unofficial symbol of elite combat units onto the head of a common non combat soldier is not right. My fiancee, who is still in the armed forces today, has the same opinion. A little while back they took away her crush hat and gave her that beret. Even she thinks it is sort of a slap in the face to the original beret wearers. Yes, she provides a essential armed forces service (medical) as do every member of the armed forces but in her opinon (and mine and a lot of other people's) that beret makes people think he is something she is not. Back when those berets first became SOP there were people that would walk up to her when she was out and about in uniform and ask her things like "I didn't know they let women be commandos?" and "Are you a Green Beret?" and "Are you airborne?" The Beret carried with it a connotation of elite, special and commando... three things that your average soldier is not. Since the black beret has become so common, the whole image of the beret has been lowered.

But I guess, not being "elite" I'm not entitled to an opinion.  I guess I'll just go back to pitching boxes full of all the signal and voice intelligence I gathered when I was a lowly REMF, and I'll pitch them to the scumbags, and POW's I handled when I was an MP.

I never said that. Every role in the armed forces is important but they are not the same. I just believe that being one of the highly trained combat operators that this country makes gives you a place of honor and that you should retain that position of honor, along with the symbols of that honor as respect for your sacrifice. How would it make you feel if you worked long and hard for years, endured constant training and hardship to earn a doctorate degree... then a few years later the place you got that degree from just starts handing out things that look just like those doctorate degrees to everyone who walks through the doors just for showing up. Common people look at those piece of paper and instantly assume that person is the same as you even though you went through so much more to get to where you are. Being in the service, you can tell who a person is by their badges but to the common man they see the flagrant, the showy things as signs of rank and role. When I was in the service I wore a normal crush hat just like everyone else when not in the field and you did not see me complaining about it. That is because I knew I was not an elite fighting unit or a commando, I was a normal schmuck in a truck looking through binoculars. And when you saw a guy in a black beret, green beret, red beret or whatnot you knew that guy was hardcore... that he was elite.

[Blaine23]

Hmm... and here I was thinking that wearing a beret made you French and whiny.

Must be because my military experience and expertise pretty much ends with GI Joe file cards.

As far as the digital camo... whatever. If it works, fine. I'm sure it'll look great when rappers co-opt it with their bling bling and Humvees in new videos.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Hmm... and here I was thinking that wearing a beret made you French and whiny.

Different Beret. Those come with a little antennae point on the top, a loaf of Bread and only look good on Marlo Thomas.

[GreatMoose]

Hopefully the AF follows suit as well.

Actually, the AF already has a new pattern. It's a grey, blue, and green tiger stripe BDU. It looks REMARKABLY similar to the Russian "Berezka" pattern. It came out in February, I think. I'll see if i can find a pic...

here you go:

Edited June 15, 2004 by GreatMoose

[Blaine23]

Hmm... and here I was thinking that wearing a beret made you French and whiny.

Different Beret. Those come with a little antennae point on the top, a loaf of Bread and only look good on Marlo Thomas.

Ah, so the Vespa and mime paint aren't military issue? Thanks for the scoop!

[GreatMoose]

Here's another pic of the ARMY uniform:

Edited June 15, 2004 by GreatMoose

[Anubis]

Hopefully the AF follows suit as well.

Actually, the AF already has a new pattern. It's a grey, blue, and green tiger stripe BDU. It looks REMARKABLY similar to the Russian "Berezka" pattern. It came out in February, I think. I'll see if i can find a pic...

here you go:

Outstanding. Excellent shading.

The new uniforms across the board rock.

What about the navy? Those ones that do wear camo, I'm guessing same one as the marines?

Edited June 15, 2004 by Anubis

[GreatMoose]

Navy's working on a new, all-purpose uniform. Haven't seen a pic, but the idea is for everyone on a ship to pretty much wear the same thing.

[Doktor Gonzo]

Love it. The new accessories RAWK.

[Mechamaniac]

I think it looks cool, but it needs to be UNIFORM.

Lose the old ass woodland camo flak vest, it makes it look like we bought our equipment at Sunny's Surplus.

JSA - I get it, I was just sticking up for the regular guy that's all. Nuthin but love fo yo ass .

[dedalus001]

The beret thing bothered me since day one as the beret, in the american army and a few others, has traditionally been a symbol of elite status. The first american troops to don the beret where the special forces boys in vietnam and they wore it before it was even permitted as part of the uniform. The military changed it's own regs to give the "Green Berets" their green beret as a formal part of the uniform. Several other branches soon followed like the Rangers, the Air Force Combat Controllers and others. The beret was a badge in and of itself. The beret was a mark of accomplishment and courage... besides looking totally froo froo. You never see a self-respecting SEaL wearing a beret do you?

My point is the beret itself is the symbol of elite status, not a patch or a button or a pin. I can understand making everyone feel special and happy and better about themselves but let's face it, if you are a rear echellon mother farker loading boxes onto a flatbed you have no business being as special or as "fancy" as a guy who dumps out of a plane a mile up behind enemy lines on a special op. Next thing you know they will start promoting everyone to Sgt. like they do for the special ops people just so everyone can have a rank now. Most of the ex-SF people I know have the same opinion I do. They suffered through a lot of blood, sweat and tears to get that beret and now they are handing them out like cracker-jack prizes. Sure an army person can tell a "real" beret from the normal cannon fodder "black berets" out there but it still takes the whole notion of the beret down a notch. To me, it is just a ploy to get more people to join the RA... "now EVERYONE gets a beret!" "Join the army, see the world, load boxes on a truck... wear a beret."

Why not just give everyone the old Zouave headdresses or civil war sloutch hats? If they want the common box pitcher to feel special why not give him a giant snoopy hat or a big gold bar on his guts that says "AVERAGE JOE"? Everyone in the military cannot be "special", you have to work hard and be on of the elites to be "special"... then again if modern wars are like vietnam that means the snipers aiming for the berets will have soooooo much more work to do.

i have to say i agree with you. if there's one thing the green berets proved, it's that unconventional warfare was their area of expertise and it was what set them apart.

what is interesting is that special forces are becoming more and more frequently used by the armed forces to complete tasks; the whole notion of uniquity being a special forces operative is diminishing, unless you're devgroup six or a paracommando or something like that.

who knows, maybe we'll find a new way to distinguish our finest, like a matte finish burger king crown...

[JsARCLIGHT]

JSA - I get it, I was just sticking up for the regular guy that's all. Nuthin but love fo yo ass .

I'm just growling back myself.

Us ex-green machine folks need to stick together rather than fight over headgear anyhoo.

[mikeszekely]

I know JSA and Mechamaniac already made up, but I still wanted to toss my two cents in...

Anyway, every man and woman who joins any of the US military, I feel, deserves respect from those of us who do not serve. Every one of them, even the box pitchers, are providing a needed service, functioning as part of a whole... and that whole is looking out for us so guys like me can think about picking up the Megaman Anniversary Collection instead of wondering if an foreign militants are going to crash a busload of explosives into my Mitsubishi on the way to Gamestop.

Now, every man and woman in the military does get to wear something very special, to let us civillians know that they're military and deserve our respect. And that something is their uniform.

Within that groups of respected men and women, there are the cream of the crop. Everyone works hard, but they worked harder, and did the tougher and often more dangerous jobs. They've earned the right to stand out from their peers, hence the berets.

Now, does giving everyone a beret make everyone elite? Nope. Instead of raising morale and making everyone feel like an elite, all it does is make the elite look the standard look. The box pitchers, vital though they are, are still pitching boxes. And the elites are still doing the elite stuff, only without the symbol of recognition.

[Otaku-Smeghead]

Let me put my two cents in.. I was Active Army for 6 years and I got to wear the Berette for a Year and a Half before I got out.. While I did think it was cool... I stilll wish they picked a different color to go with it due to the fact that Black was chosen by the SF guys... I email-ed a Pic of the new Army's BDU to a Recruiter in the NG and he liked them (well of course he would say there great) Im gonna hold my breath on this... What I do think is the Boots while I hate shining boots as much as the enxt person. Those cant be very comfoprtable for Walking around in.. I use to do 12 Mile Road Marches at Ft Campbell KY and I can tell you with those boots (The desert ones) Soldiers will jave a tough time walking long distences

GO ARMY HOUAH!!!!!!!

[ewilen]

Berette

[JsARCLIGHT]

Berette

Is that a combat issue berette, troop?

SIR, YES SIR!

Sir!?! I'm a beautician for a living, private!

[fearyaks]

what is interesting is that special forces are becoming more and more frequently used by the armed forces to complete tasks

This is a Rummy thing though right? I remember reading 'back in the day' that Gen. Franks wanted to do a more methodical 'brute-force' method of invading Iraq and Rumsfeld wanted a quick hitting force with lots of spec. forces groups.

Could be wrong, but it all depends on the commanders right?

[Blaine23]

I know JSA and Mechamaniac already made up, but I still wanted to toss my two cents in...

Anyway, every man and woman who joins any of the US military, I feel, deserves respect from those of us who do not serve. Every one of them, even the box pitchers, are providing a needed service, functioning as part of a whole... and that whole is looking out for us so guys like me can think about picking up the Megaman Anniversary Collection instead of wondering if an foreign militants are going to crash a busload of explosives into my Mitsubishi on the way to Gamestop.

Now, every man and woman in the military does get to wear something very special, to let us civillians know that they're military and deserve our respect. And that something is their uniform.

Within that groups of respected men and women, there are the cream of the crop. Everyone works hard, but they worked harder, and did the tougher and often more dangerous jobs. They've earned the right to stand out from their peers, hence the berets.

Now, does giving everyone a beret make everyone elite? Nope. Instead of raising morale and making everyone feel like an elite, all it does is make the elite look the standard look. The box pitchers, vital though they are, are still pitching boxes. And the elites are still doing the elite stuff, only without the symbol of recognition.

Not to be rude, but I thought that every man and woman who joined any of the US military did so so that the rest of us could feel any damn way we want about them.

At least, that's my definition of freedom.

Personally, I could give a rat's ass about what they wear, except for when I think it looks cool or the opposite. It's their thing, not mine. I don't expect many in the military to be excited about my company dress code either.

[Anubis]

Let me put my two cents in.. I was Active Army for 6 years and I got to wear the Berette for a Year and a Half before I got out.. While I did think it was cool... I stilll wish they picked a different color to go with it due to the fact that Black was chosen by the SF guys... I email-ed  a Pic of the new Army's BDU to a Recruiter in the NG and he liked them (well of course he would say there great) Im gonna hold my breath on this... What I do think is the Boots while I hate shining boots as much as the enxt person.  Those cant be very comfoprtable for Walking around in..  I use to do 12 Mile Road Marches at Ft Campbell KY and I can tell you with those boots (The desert ones) Soldiers will jave a tough time walking long distences

GO ARMY HOUAH!!!!!!!

The tan boots in the new uniforms are supposed to be different ones than the existing Desert Boots. New summer and winter boots.

I couldn't imagine the new ones not being designed for heavy walking.

The old desert boots I imagine would hurt a bit after a while, but nothing Dr. Scholl's wouldn't fix. Like all the boots I had.

Edited June 15, 2004 by Anubis

[imode]

Personally, I don't care for the berets. They look a little too 3rd-world-we spend-80%-of-our-GDP-on-our-military-ish. That being said, can someone explain to me why the flag is backwards on this pic?

[Otaku-Smeghead]

Let me put my two cents in.. I was Active Army for 6 years and I got to wear the Berette for a Year and a Half before I got out.. While I did think it was cool... I stilll wish they picked a different color to go with it due to the fact that Black was chosen by the SF guys... I email-ed  a Pic of the new Army's BDU to a Recruiter in the NG and he liked them (well of course he would say there great) Im gonna hold my breath on this... What I do think is the Boots while I hate shining boots as much as the enxt person.  Those cant be very comfoprtable for Walking around in..  I use to do 12 Mile Road Marches at Ft Campbell KY and I can tell you with those boots (The desert ones) Soldiers will jave a tough time walking long distences

GO ARMY HOUAH!!!!!!!

The tan boots in the new uniforms are supposed to be different ones than the existing Desert Boots. New summer and winter boots.

I couldn't imagine the new ones not being designed for heavy walking.

The old desert boots I imagine would hurt a bit after a while, but nothing Dr. Scholl's wouldn't fix. Like all the boots I had.

Yeah but with the Desert Boots could you get them resoled?? The Hell with Dr Shoals.. get me some Shark's Teath Waffle soles. With thise puppies on I could walk forever

[Andy Roberts]

Waffles, eh? Anyway, most likely a flipped pic, although i think i've seen other flags backwards like that on other things. Btw, this is a temp. avitar.

Edited June 16, 2004 by Andy Roberts

[Sundown]

I think it looks cool, but it needs to be UNIFORM.

Lose the old ass woodland camo flak vest, it makes it look like we bought our equipment at Sunny's Surplus.

So true. The digi-camo sort of defeats its purpose when the vest clashes so much against it and stands out like it does in that picture. It's kind of scary when the army is opting for gear that looks like it's picked out by an airsofter with a limited budget, grabbing and wearing whatever he can get

The flags are backwards on the right shoulder only-- to appear as if they're waving in the manner that they would be if a flagbearer was carrying it while advancing. If the right shoulder flag-patch looked normal, then it would appear as if the flag was waving in retreat. Having the patches this way, the stripes stream backwards on both shoulders.

-Al

[Noriko Takaya]

Personally, I don't care for the berets.  They look a little too 3rd-world-we spend-80%-of-our-GDP-on-our-military-ish.  That being said, can someone explain to me why the flag is backwards on this pic?

If you are wearing an American flag on your sleeve, no matter which side of the jacket it is on, the union is always facing the front. This is done so that the flag looks as if it is blowing in the wind created by the forward movement. You will see this done on military aircraft, vehicles, and personnel. That is, if they follow proper military ettiquette. Military guidelines specify that in support of joint or multi-national operations, the "right" flag is worn on the right sleeve, 1/4" below the shoulder seam or 1/8" below any required unit patches.

By the way, I have a friend still in the Corps who got me a set of those nifty new USMC MARPAT digital utilities in the woodland pattern. You can tell the difference between the fakes that are available because the set issued by HQ Marine Corps have the "Eagle, Globe, and Anchor" embedded in the left breast pocket. They are great. I just wish I could fit in them, as the largest size they make them in seems to be Large. I guess I need to shed a few more pounds. One of the other good things is that the Marines have already updated most of their gear to match the MARPAT pattern. Their ballistic vests, packs, PAGST helmet covers, and even some of the 782 gear they use are already in this pattern. I guess I need to start updating my deuce gear...

Here is an image of the USMC MARPAT utilities:

Edited June 16, 2004 by Noriko Takaya

[JsARCLIGHT]

Damn! Noriko beat me out with the Flag question... damn half hour drive home stupid traffic...

Now can anyone pick out the things missing from that trooper's gear that he will really wish he brough with him on patrol?

[bsu legato]

Now can anyone pick out the things missing from that trooper's gear that he will really wish he brough with him on patrol?

A canteen?

A better rifle?

[Otaku-Smeghead]

Now can anyone pick out the things missing from that trooper's gear that he will really wish he brough with him on patrol?

A canteen?

A better rifle?

Canteen sure.. as far as Better Rifle the M4 is Standered Issue for Infantry troops there might be better Weapons(Its all ways called a Weapon never a Gun) out there but it depends on what Uncle Sam is willing to spend to get them..