Aircraft VS super thread!

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

flyingmule.com has added more upcoming F-14 releases. VF-2 bounty hunters and VF-41 Black Ace's F-14A with liveries from the 1981 shootdowns are the ones being made. VF-2 is in high viz 70s era I believe.

With Dragon making their F-15s FINALLY with sparrows on, could the phoenixes be close behind for the tomcat? The proto F-14 from dragon looked too clean, being armed only with 2 sidewinders. ANy of you planning on getting these?I am still praying the F-14B they make is engine accurate at least.

Also, its obvious to me that most diecast aircraft models are not for rough play, especially the dragons, but since they are diecast metal and such, what purpose does the diecast serve? Is the durability of metal better for shipping a complete model versus one made from styrene? Is that the reason>?

[Skull Leader]

if their F-14 bravos are engine accurate, I will buy at least one (they ARE doing them in 103 markings, after all).. I don't know if I'll ever get one of their A-models though.

[David Hingtgen]

MANY people equate diecast with quality/collectibility. Trust me, I've seen many flame wars that are basically "plastic vs diecast". There are a lot of people who would gladly pay more money for an ERTL F-16 than an expertly built Hasegawa F-16, simply because it's metal. I have seen many people reject a very nicely detailed, new model simply because the wings (and only the wings) were plastic, and it wasn't "100% metal" and they buy the less accurate, less detailed model (with solid metal wings) because it was metal.

As for the F-14's: I'm waiting to see the Sundowners one first. No nose probe is as stupid an error as no pylons for the F-15E.

And I would be very (happily) surprised if the VF-2 one was done right, as an early F-14A. (Because that would mean the Wolfpack one could be done right)

Black Aces: yup, it's Fast Eagle 107, one of the shooters.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

That reminds me. badcataviation.com has a 1/48 F-14 from unimax or motormax. Not sure which company. But it is listed as a diecast model/toy. I believe the liveries are VF-154. Anyone have this yet? It seems interesting. If its got retractable gear I am DEFINITELY buying it!!

As for me I buy metal rather than plastic since metal can be handled more roughly(....well a tad bit in some cases..my impression from my 2 dragon warbirds is that they shouldnt be messed with too much...however my ertls....).

I wouyld want a wolfpack tomcat over a bounty hunters one.

Is fast eagle 107 Kleeman's bird? I get confused...its been a while since I read Gilchrist's tomcat book, but was the other tomcat pilot the one who had the first kill? I know they credit Kleeman with the first sometimes. Sad to hear he died in a hornet accident stuck in the ground. Tragic loss. And the man did so much for the Super tomcat program too.

Did anyone get Gilchrist's crusader book? It's the best one I have read!! Too bad its near impossible to find now.

[Skull Leader]

no, AJ102 was Kleeman's bird (and it wasn't even his plane at the time... although since it was THAT plane that scored the kill, it was later made his Jet). AJ107 was Lt. Muczynski's plane. I had the unique opportunity to talk through email with Larry "Music" Muczynski. We got into a discussion about the weapons loadout they carried the day of the encounter and he mentioned Kleeman carrying a 2x2x2 loadout, while Larry had a 2x1x2 loadout (he had an electrical short on station #8, and as a result only carried one sparrow). The squadron book "Tomcats in Action" credits Kleeman as being the first to engage and shoot down a fitter after it fired an Atoll missile at them.

Edited April 14, 2005 by Skull Leader

[Skull Leader]

That reminds me.  badcataviation.com has a 1/48 F-14 from unimax or motormax. Not sure which company. But it is listed as a diecast model/toy. I believe the liveries are VF-154.  Anyone have this yet? It seems interesting. If its got retractable gear I am DEFINITELY buying it!!

yeah, those are VF-154 markings (some of the dullest they ever wore, I might add)... for that price, I have to wonder what has been compromised? Be sure and tell us all about it once you get it! I also noticed that the VF-41 bird they offer on the site strangely enough appears to be an F-14B.... (for those who don't understand, VF-41 "Black Aces" never flew bravos). And David.. in all likelyhood, what are the chances that the VF-2 Bounty Hunter cat will have the interim beavertail? It strikes me that only (us) diehard tomcat fans would notice that, and like many other things, I wonder if they'll take it for granted....

Edited April 14, 2005 by Skull Leader

[Graham]

Graham, you got them in kit form? The ones I saw were already built, but I do know new ray offers them in kitform to the hobby stores. Preassembled ones are at the toy stores. Sorry to hear of your breakage!!!

The kit ones were selling in TRU here in HK. I've never seen the preassembled ones for sale here.

Actually I'm not sure I would even call thems 'kits' as they are extremely simple to put together, consisting of just the upper and lower halves, canopy, landing gear and about 4 screws IIRC.

Graham

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Graham have you seen the New ray tomcats? The first ones had a 1/.48 pilot shoved into a 1/72 canopy, and a HORRIBLE cockpit!! It only seated one and was more like an F-8 cockpit. The newer releases have the corrected canopy.

But the most annoying thing was the wing sweep! HORRID!! At full sweep...heck any sweepp...it was ASYMETRICAL!!! Totally ugly.

Skull leader, not sure when I will get the 1/48 unimax tomcat, but still waiting for someone else to buy it to see if its got retractable gear. If it has fixed gear...its kinda pointless being that its obviously a toy and armours got the market covered for 1/48 precision diecast tomcats. I hope its retractable gear!! IF so it would be the best tomcat "toy" to fit in with the 1/48 VF-1.

[David Hingtgen]

I really need to see a final, production, shipped-to-stores Dragon F-14 to make any more comments. It seems they have molded a lot of different Tomcat parts, but just aren't putting them together right. Much as if you took a Hasegawa F-14D kit, but used a lot of A and B parts while building it. Remember, if Dragon's making it, they almost certainly used the Hase kit as a reference, and the decals. You'd be suprised at how many diecast companies use plastic kit decals as reference---it's easy to tell, just look for errors.

But my current main "fear" is that none will have nose pitots, which is pretty obvious, especially since they spent so much effort on the F-16's. Pitot-less F-14's aren't very common. (Though VF-2 high-vis would be so). Asides from the pitot, the VF-111 looks quite accurate. (Though I do have issues with the overall sculpt---strange, since Dragon seems to really be nailing the overall shape/outlines---but the F-14 looks "stubby" to me, or something)

[Skull Leader]

Yeah, I rather thought the overall shape looked kind of "toyish"... and I guess that's what category the Dragon miniatures are supposed to fit in, but I expect more from a "high quality" miniature... a pitot-less Tomcat in VF-2?? Did I miss something? What were you referring to?

[Lynx7725]

For you F15 and F22 fans:

F-22 with Older Siblings

04/05/05 - Maj. Kevin Dolata and 1st Lt. Alex Edwards, both F-15 Eagle pilots with the 1st Fighter Wing, and Maj. Charles Corcoran, an F/A-22 Raptor pilot assigned to the 27th Fighter Squadron, fly in formation en route to a training area off the coastline of Va., on April 5, 2005. The 27th Fighter Squadron is currently performing regular operations with two Raptors on loan from Tyndall Air Force Base, Fla. (U.S. Air Force photo by Tech. Sgt. Ben Bloker)

[David Hingtgen]

I think this is the first "official" Dragon Super Hornet listing:

http://www.dragonmodelsusa.com/dmlusa/prodd.asp?pid=DRW50070

An *E* model? C'mon, the demo is always done with an F, and the F is by far the most popular version. I'd love VFA-122, but I want an F.

Wonder what weapons it'll come with. 5 drop tanks would be nice.

I sure hope they don't put AMRAAM's on the wingtips like they did with the F-18C.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

I prefer swinders myself on the tips, but out of curiosity, why dont you want the AMRAAMs on the tips of the super bug? Something tells me they will put them on the tips.....dragon has a tipAMRAAM mount fetish as it seems.

And that pic you posted lynx....man it makes my langley F-15C look more accurate since it lacks sparrows in that pic!!!

I hope Dragon gets around to making a F-22A and YF-23. I could care less about a internal opening weapons bay. Less parts to worry about and heck an easier job for them to do!!

I too like the Super bug F over the E. The F just screams MULTIMISSION a lot louder to me. Hopefully a black aces version comes out.

[Skull Leader]

bah... if they were going to do an E, I want it to be a Sunliners bird! For an F, ANYTHING but VFA-211 (their markings are about as fruity as can be found on a super hornet).

a "5 wet" configuration would be neat to have, since in my eyes it's all the SH is useful for

[Graham]

Just read on my Janes News Briefs email, that the F/A-22 has finally been approved for full rate production.

"The US Department of Defense (DoD) has approved the Lockheed Martin-built F/A-22 Raptor stealth multirole fighter aircraft for full-rate production, according to US sources familiar with the decision.

[Jane's Defence Weekly - first posted to http://jdw.janes.com – 8 April 2005]"

Graham

[David Hingtgen]

I don't want AMRAAM's on the tips of a Hornet because they can't carry it. Hornet wingtips are Sidewinder only, period. All versions, all configurations. Yes, Super Hornets actually have the standard USN AMRAAM launcher on their tips--but it's still not allowed to have AMRAAM's there. Even those "lots of AMRAAMs" pics of Hornets will show the tips with Sidewinders.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Is there a reason super bugs are not allowed to have those on the tips? Aerodynamic flaws or penalties perhaps?

IM alwyas used to seeing it with winders...so I guerss my mind is fixated towards that. So it was dissapointing when I opened my dragon F-16 to find that it only came with winders.

I hope dragon makes a YF-17. Now that would be GREAT in diecast! Besides to my knowledge, noone has ever made one so far!

[Skull Leader]

Well, SHs definately don't need anything else slowing them down, they already get passed by short yellow school busses

[David Hingtgen]

Skull Leader:

Of all the 1/72 and 1/48 diecast model planes, Dragon has the consistenly best shape. Heck, they beat a lot of plastic model kits. I would not classify them as 'toys' at all. For the F-14 to look "off" is a BIG surprise to us. For VF-2, I was referring to how of the few pitot-less F-14's there were, VF-2 1970's high-vis were among them.

Shin:

I think the F-18 wingtip AMRAAM issue is pure weight. A second-hand anecdote I read is that they mounted an AMRAAM on the tips ONCE. The bend and droop in the wings convinced them to never try it again. Why the Shornet can't however, I have no idea. Certainly with practically a totally redesigned wing (particularly, it is stiffer, and has less washout at the tips--so it inherently bends and droops a lot less than the earlier ones) it should have been easy to design it to allow AMRAAM's.

Coolest Super Hornet scheme ever:

VFA-102 50th Ann. http://www.navy.mil/view_single.asp?id=23597 No, there's no other pics at the moment. We'll just have to wait.

Edited April 16, 2005 by David Hingtgen

[hellohikaru]

F-8E with assortment of weapons. Are those M118s ? Those are very large sized bombs. Must have been a real burden.

[hellohikaru]

F-8E with Snakeeyes and LAU-33 rocket launchers.

[hellohikaru]

Interesting trivia i found about the Deuce 102 Delta Dagger.

"The F-102 was deployed to Southeast Asia beginning in 1962, and as American involvement in Vietnam grew, the Deuce took part in missions which included escort for B-52's, ready alert duty at bases in South Vietnam, and then later during Operation Stove Pipe, the F-102's 24 2.75-inch (70-mm) FFAR's were put to use against targets on the Ho Chi Minh trail. F-102's and TF-102's would fly at night along the trail and try to pinpoint targets using their IR seekers and then attack potential targets (including campfires and warm truck engines) using the IR-guided AIM-4 Falcon as well as their 70-mm rockets. TF-102's were also used as fast-FAC aircraft, using their rockets to mark targets for incoming fighter bombers. The F-102 was also used on CAP duty as well. "

So 102s can use their belly mounted rocket packs for A-G as well...that's something seldom heard of in most books.

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

Coolest Super Hornet scheme ever:

VFA-102 50th Ann. http://www.navy.mil/view_single.asp?id=23597 No, there's no other pics at the moment. We'll just have to wait.

Nice. Very Houquet Legioss like!

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

THAT is the scheme dragon should use!!! Totally awesome and makes the regular scheme bland.

Hikaru, thanks a lot for posting the pics of the sader!! Never saw it much in the AG role but seeing it makes the look and presence of it hella cool. Kind of like an F/A-18C only 50s vintage like.

[David Hingtgen]

From what I can tell, the "fat" F-8 bombs are Mk84's, just of WW2 vintage. The design has changed, but the number hasn't.

View from the rear of the Diamondback's 50th Anniversary scheme:

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

GOOOOD that thing is beautiful!! Now THAT is how you do good liveries!! Unlike most of the other shortnet squadrons with minimalistic garbage.

[hellohikaru]

Sorry for the OOT post but

any of you guys pick up Trumpeter's new 72nd J-10A. Does look promising.

http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/showthread.php?t=4272

[David Hingtgen]

Some more VFA-102 50th Ann. pics: http://www.carrierbuilders.net/articles/20...Anniversary.htm

[hellohikaru]

Check the links inside the table to find all kinds of weird marriages between aircraft,

http://www.page.sannet.ne.jp/n_sor/faf.htm

[Skull Leader]

it's amazing how similar all of those kitbashes seem, when I assume they're trying to be different?

the EF-4 was a pretty cool idea though!

[hellohikaru]

EF-4C is actually a real aircraft..the first wild weasel phantoms. It didn't have the football though. Maybe they have have called their EF-4EJ ?

As for the kitbashes they look definitely Yukikaze inspired.

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

There goes one more export hope for the EF2000.

SINGAPORE : The Singapore government confirmed Thursday that it had dropped the Eurofighter Typhoon from a shortlist of possible new fighters, leaving the French-built Rafale and US-made Boeing F-15 Strike Eagle as the final options.

The Ministry of Defence (MINDEF) said the Typhoon is a "very capable aircraft ... (but) the committed schedule for the delivery of the Typhoon and its systems did not meet the requirements" of the Republic of Singapore Air Force.

"In response to media queries, MINDEF confirmed that it has narrowed down the selection for the new fighter replacement programme to Dassaults Rafale and Boeings F-15," a ministry statement said.

"MINDEF has decided not to consider the proposal from BAE Systems any further."

- AFP /ct

[Lynx7725]

Y'know, I'm hoping that the Rafale would be picked. As much as the Mud Hen is a nice aircraft, I see so many USAF aircraft here, a little variety would be interesting.

[Skull Leader]

Just a wild prediction on my part, but I'm fairly certain a mudhen would CRUCIFY a Rafale in performance tests and economical evaluations... no slight to the Rafale, but the F-15E (as well as the new variant that has just been finished... can't remember the name) are just damn wicked machines. They have TONS of power in the engines, they can carry a wide variety of ordinance (and a lot of it at that), and they'd be getting the customer support of Boeing, which from what I've heard after hanging out at the Wichita facility for as long as I have, is a pretty extensive benefit. The airframe has been thoroughly tested (in combat theaters too), and if I were making the call that would make a huge difference.

The Rafale is a hot little plane, it's hella manueverable and quite fast from what I can gather... I just don't know if Dassault can deliver the capability and benefits for the amount of green that Boeing would do it for.

Edited April 21, 2005 by Skull Leader

[F-ZeroOne]

There goes one more export hope for the EF2000.

SINGAPORE : The Singapore government confirmed Thursday that it had dropped the Eurofighter Typhoon from a shortlist of possible new fighters, leaving the French-built Rafale and US-made Boeing F-15 Strike Eagle as the final options.

- AFP /ct

You know, sometimes I feel the RAF should hang signs out saying "Won't anyone buy our lovely aircraft?"...