SV-51-Use Large-Type Bomb

[Aurel Tristen]

I don't think they were nukes as some people have asked me already.

They appear to be very large fuel-air bomb....

Maybe similar to the "Daisy Cutter"?

[Stamen0083]

Do fuel-air bombs give off a mushroom cloud?

PS: Daisy Cutters aren't FAE, apparently:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/dumb/blu-82.htm

Edited May 30, 2004 by Stamen0083

[Aurel Tristen]

Do fuel-air bombs give off a mushroom cloud?

PS: Daisy Cutters aren't FAE, apparently:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/dumb/blu-82.htm

I know Daisy Cutters aren't FAEs, I was referring to the size/explosive yield.

[Stamen0083]

I know Daisy Cutters aren't FAEs, I was referring to the size/explosive yield.

Ahh, understood.

Still, do FAE's give off a mushroom cloud?

[Macross_Fanboy]

I think that daisy cutters do have a mushroom cloud effect, but I still think those were some kinda nuke that the Anti-UN used...I'm confident that Edgar died.

[Graham]

I also think they are FAE bombs as before the bombs hit, they seem to spray out some sort of grey substance in a dome (umbrella shape), which could be the fuel.

If the Anti-UN was using nukes, we could probably say goodbye to Shin, Sara, Roy and Aries as well

Graham

[the white drew carey]

Plus, it's simply physics that a large enough explosion will create a mushroom cloud. It doesn't neccesarily have to be nuclear in origin.

[Aurel Tristen]

http://nanashi.macrossmecha.info/resrc/cat...s/sv51-sae.html

[Aurel Tristen]

I also think they are FAE bombs as before the bombs hit, they seem to spray out some sort of grey substance in a dome (umbrella shape), which could be the fuel.

If the Anti-UN was using nukes, we could probably say goodbye to Shin, Sara, Roy and Aries as well

Graham

That's right... like this:

from the FAS Org website

Like that only on a much larger scale.

[Graham]

Yep, that proves it's an FAE bomb I reckon.

Based on the pics in Nanashi's above post, that's pretty much identical to the bomb in ep # 4.

Graham

[MAXXxxx]

at first when I saw the mushroom clout I thought about nukes,

but yeah, it's more like FAE. (especially after watching that part again and noticing the way it's blown up.)

Still, do FAE's give off a mushroom cloud?

well I'm sooo far from knowing about these thing, but as I've seen a few times on discovery, every large explosion gives a mushroom cloud.

[imode]

Plus Hasford specifically told Nora to bring back Sara unharmed. Then Nora made some reference like, "If a cockroach runs under your bed, then all you have to do is break the bed." While she's got a penchant for overdoing things, she wasn't trying to kill them, just get rid of the forest.

[Mule]

I've seen large firecrackers make mushruoom clouds under the right conditions. It's caused a large expansion of gas in the first part of the explosion then a rapid contraction coming back in and billowing up in the second part.

[Roycommi]

The only two FAEs I have ever heard of either in the Press or in reading about are the 10,000 lb "daisy cutter", and the larger (20,000 lb ?) MOAB. One is dropped by a c-130 and the other by an aircraft with an equally large bomb bay and carrying capacity.

I am curious if this ordinance entry might be better described as a small or light bomb as it seems to simply be carried by a loaded fighter. If say a anti-unification version of a c-130 were to drop a 10,000lb version of this bomb, that would be large, but this version seems to be small, like a 1,000 or 2,000 lb version.

[Noyhauser]

The russians used them extensively in Chechnya. They are extremely effective in clearing out cellars due to their overpressure effects. However Im not too sure how much the Russians used a air deployed version, from what I have seen they were more prone to a static version instead.

[Aurel Tristen]

The only two FAEs I have ever heard of either in the Press or in reading about are the 10,000 lb "daisy cutter", and the larger (20,000 lb ?) MOAB. One is dropped by a c-130 and the other by an aircraft with an equally large bomb bay and carrying capacity.

I am curious if this ordinance entry might be better described as a small or light bomb as it seems to simply be carried by a loaded fighter. If say a anti-unification version of a c-130 were to drop a 10,000lb version of this bomb, that would be large, but this version seems to be small, like a 1,000 or 2,000 lb version.

Scale wise, taking into account the overall length of the SV-51 in comparison with the diameter and the length of the carried bomb, I'd say it a quite a bit larger than a 1,000 lb. or 2,000 bomb lb.

[Roycommi]

I did a quick google and found a really informative web-site called the Military Analysis Network.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/index.html

It has an entry for the Daisy Cutter and says it is in fact not a FAE.

The several entries for FAEs do look quite similar in size to the missile as pictured. Assuming that bomb even is a FAE.

[Majestic]

Here's hoping for a custom made version of this for the SV-51 model kit (or future toy, if any).

One that detaches and has "deploying airbrake action".

Only a matter of time, I'm sure, before we see one in Hobby Japan or Dengeki Hobby.

/waits eagerly

[hellohikaru]

I hope David will step in to answer this one but

FAE(Fuel Air Explosive) bombs are generally a type of napalm. CBU-52/71/71A are examples of US small size FAEs. These create a small mushroom cloud when dropped.

Daisy Cutters

Apart from the huge one drop by the C-130s, the USAF also deployed conventional bombs(Mk82/83) with a fuse extender and reffered to them as daisy cutters. Used alot during the Vietnam conflict as anti-personnel weapon. The long fuse allows them to explode above the ground.

[David Hingtgen]

1. FAE's are generally considered the successor to napalm. Similar, but different.

2. Not very often used, but I like them. Most common version by far is the CBU-72. Most often thing carrying it is the F-15E.

3. Anything big enough makes a mushroom cloud.

4. "Daisy Cutter" specifically means the fuse extenders, most often found on Mk82's. However, the BLU-82 always had "Diasy Cutters" installed (it works much better that way) so people started associating "Daisy Cutter" with that bomb, rather than just the fuse extender. And since we almost never use fuse extenders nowadays, but still use BLU-82's, most any reference to "Daisy Cutter" means the big C-130-dropped bomb.

5. All the "big" bombs are simply really big conventional bombs. If you really wanted to, you could make a 200,000lb bomb and drop it out of C-5. But that's not really THAT much better than a nuke, since that much fire and heat will create significant radiation. It may be fall-out free (or not), but it'll sure irradiate the area a bit.

Big Bombs:

[Aurel Tristen]

I did a quick google and found a really informative web-site called the Military Analysis Network.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/index.html

It has an entry for the Daisy Cutter and says it is in fact not a FAE.

The several entries for FAEs do look quite similar in size to the missile as pictured. Assuming that bomb even is a FAE.

No one said the Daisy Cutter was an FAE.

[Roycommi]

Yes I did, read my previous post.

[Aurel Tristen]

Yes I did, read my previous post.

Ah.

[EganLoo]

Do fuel-air bombs give off a mushroom cloud?

PS: Daisy Cutters aren't FAE, apparently:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/dumb/blu-82.htm

I know Daisy Cutters aren't FAEs, I was referring to the size/explosive yield.

The Macross Zero creators themselves nicknamed the SV-51's bomb a Daisy Cutter. (In fact, they themselves haven't labeled it as an FAE yet, despite its similar appearance.)

http://www.anime.net/macross/mecha/#codenames_unofficial

http://www.anime.net/macross/mecha/anti_un/variable/sv51/

[Gerwalker]

5. All the "big" bombs are simply really big conventional bombs. If you really wanted to, you could make a 200,000lb bomb and drop it out of C-5. But that's not really THAT much better than a nuke, since that much fire and heat will create significant radiation. It may be fall-out free (or not), but it'll sure irradiate the area a bit.

David,

I can't see how a conventional bomb (don't matter how big) would create significant radiation aside from thermal radiation. If this is what you mean the term IRRADIATE is not properly used.

Could you please clarify this?

Thanks.

[Noyhauser]

Then the creators have it wrong. The daisy cutter is not a FAE (it doesn't even have a shape condusive towards good dispersal of an agent. The effect they portrayed in the OAV could only have occurred from an FAE bomb, the mushroom cloud seen before a detonation is the gaseous mixture being oxidized (mixed with air). the Daisy cutter is a big conventional bomb, that does not disperse its agent before detonation.

Any way you can tell them of their error?

[Aurel Tristen]

Then the creators have it wrong. The daisy cutter is not a FAE (it doesn't even have a shape condusive towards good dispersal of an agent. The effect they portrayed in the OAV could only have occurred from an FAE bomb, the mushroom cloud seen before a detonation is the gaseous mixture being oxidized (mixed with air). the Daisy cutter is a big conventional bomb, that does not disperse its agent before detonation.

Any way you can tell them of their error?

it can be classified as a Daisy Cutter because it is a large bomb with a long fuse which causes the bomb to detonate above the ground for anti-personnel and tree-clearing purposes.

It *appears* to be a FAE Weapon. Which I believe is said in the dialogue.

[EganLoo]

Then the creators have it wrong. The daisy cutter is not a FAE (it doesn't even have a shape condusive towards good dispersal of an agent. The effect they portrayed in the OAV could only have occurred from an FAE bomb, the mushroom cloud seen before a detonation is the gaseous mixture being oxidized (mixed with air). the Daisy cutter is a big conventional bomb, that does not disperse its agent before detonation.

Any way you can tell them of their error?

That's the wonderful thing about creating a fictional future--modern-day conventions need not apply. (After all, the Macross creators gave the VB-6 a Shuttle/Bomber mode--even though by conventional terms, it doesn't really "shuttle" or "bomb" anything.)

By conventional terms, the bombs at the end of Macross Zero Vol. 4 *can't* be the historical "Daisy Cutter"--but it also *can't* be an FAE. It's too new to be the Vietnam War-era bomb that holds the "Daisy Cutter" nickname, but it's far too big to be a conventional FAE. (As the Federation of American Scientists notes, it's "difficult to make an FAE the size of [the historical] Daisy Cutter because the correct uniform mixture of agent with ambient air would be difficult to maintain if the agent were so widely dispersed.")

The solution is simple: the Macross creators reused the nickname "Daisy Cutter" for an entirely new bomb (just like they reused the Valkyrie name itself from the Vietnam War-era experimental bomber for an entirely new vehicle) . They also did not call it FAE onscreen--intstead, they called it a generic class name. That frees them to give any sort of explanation later (e.g. the dispersed cloud was not fuel, the theoretical problems of large FAEs were resolved, or it was a gorgeous windless day on Mayan --but not have to invent the official explanation now while they're still busy keeping us happy with 30 minutes of glorious animation every half year.

Edited June 23, 2004 by EganLoo

[EganLoo]

It *appears* to be a FAE Weapon. Which I believe is said in the dialogue.

The dialogue does not say it is a FAE weapon--the writers kept it vague so they wouldn't write themselves into a hole.

[Anubis]

They still modeled a FAE bomb in the show, wether that was the one they intended or not.

The daisy cutter is just an 8000 lb explosive. Thereis a mushroom cloud from the explosion. No fuel dispersal however. It's "successor" the MOAB is a 10000 lb bomb. Lots of explosive packed together. Not as fancy as expelling all that fuel and then detonating. The earlier shots of a real FAE weapon collaborate that the weapon in M0 was a FAE bomb.

The nickname could be applied if you felt like it though.