Macross Zero

[Keith]

Going by that reasoining, even before he died, Roy was never shot down (as he did manage to return to the Macross & land). Let's just be arbitrary, & say Roy has taken hits, but has never been "shot down."

[wolfx]

I figured Roy self-destructed his VF-0S.  I doubt he'd ditch his Valk with the uncertianity it could be captured... what if it wasn't about to explode?  The other thing that reinforces that is the way he yells at Aries to run away and also would you tackle an enemy who you haven't completely disabled without having a plan to take them out?  I think Roy knew that they would probably capture the VF-0S and considering it's a new technology he woudln't want them to get it.  I also doubt it would have that nice delay in the explosion and you see no incoming fire when it blows up.

Perhaps....but the fact is he WAS shot down....for lack of better terminology.

nope. His valk was damaged beyond repair and he did a landing of somesort while taking 2 occtos with him. A plane damaged that lands is not shot down. For example. If a SAM hits a phantom jet,m and the jet makes it back to the carrier damaged, would you call that shot down? I wouldn't. ANd yes i do believe he may have initated self destruct this is possible to do witha flick of the switch and since his valk was screwed up anyways mineswell blow something up.

So from this reasoning....

He is considered shot down if :

1.) if a pilot lands the plane (despite very bad condition getting shot up), he's not shot down.

2.) if a pilot gets shot up badly, but doesn't think he can make a landing, he ejects and is considered shot down.

3.) if a pilot gets shot in his plane (obviously he dies), he is shot down

is this right?

Of course returning to a carrier or base wouldn't be considered shot down...but what if the pilot lands in enemy territory? I'm quite sure he's considered shot down and consequently, MIA until he gets rescued.

[Roy Focker]

I thought the events that occur in Macross Zero ended up being classified. If Roy was shoot down then that fact become classified. Thus it never happen and he wasn't "shot down".

[Agent ONE]

I thought the events that occur in Macross Zero ended up being classified. If Roy was shoot down then that fact become classified. Thus it never happen and he wasn't "shot down".

Thats the way I see it... Really.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

nope if he lands in enemy territory he literally just lands in enemy territory. Doesn't mean he is blown out fo the sky.

[Agent ONE]

You guys also need to remember that Kawamori said when MZero was launching that continuity wasn't his top priority.

[bsu legato]

Good episode, but Kawamori came awfully close to losing me with that flying rock business. Other than Shin and Sara's magic carpet ride, it was a good episode all around. I liked that they (finally) added some much-needed depth to the baddies. I never expected Nora to look like Vash the Stampede under her flight suit. It certainly explains why she's such a bitch most of the time.

[Skull Leader]

Ok.... something here bothers me. I don't understand how people can have such a difficult time accepting floating rocks when they can accept a 3/4 mile tall hologram hypnotizing an entire city. Sharon Apple did equally fantastic things with just as little explination (ok, I can accept a Hologram program around the Macross itself, even if only installed for the concert... but a FREE ROAMING hologram? All across the city? Creating holograms out of simple glass? Capable of projecting itself INSIDE the cockpit of a fighter where no projector exists?)

Get real people.... despite it's technical roots, Macross is all about the fantastic. One of it's primary story hooks (one of the few things I agree with Keith on) is that it's about the power of music... and the energy that comes from within during said music.

Pure speculation on my part, BUT:

Sharon was able to manipulate simple coaxial wires to suspend and strangle Myung

Sara used latent mystic energy (I speculate to be anima spiritia) to levitate the rocks.

Both are equally impossible in the real world (at least as the average person defines it... one or both may exist in theory or whatever...) Yet somehow people have no problem with Sharon Apple, or her part in Macross plus.

............. I fail to see the real difference.

[imode]

Ok.... something here bothers me. I don't understand how people can have such a difficult time accepting floating rocks when they can accept a 3/4 mile tall hologram hypnotizing an entire city. Sharon Apple did equally fantastic things with just as little explination (ok, I can accept a Hologram program around the Macross itself, even if only installed for the concert... but a FREE ROAMING hologram? All across the city? Creating holograms out of simple glass? Capable of projecting itself INSIDE the cockpit of a fighter where no projector exists?)

Get real people.... despite it's technical roots, Macross is all about the fantastic. One of it's primary story hooks (one of the few things I agree with Keith on) is that it's about the power of music... and the energy that comes from within during said music.

Pure speculation on my part, BUT:

Sharon was able to manipulate simple coaxial wires to suspend and strangle Myung

Sara used latent mystic energy (I speculate to be anima spiritia) to levitate the rocks.

Both are equally impossible in the real world (at least as the average person defines it... one or both may exist in theory or whatever...) Yet somehow people have no problem with Sharon Apple, or her part in Macross plus.

............. I fail to see the real difference.

I dunno. I figure, since Eden had all those little holographic projectors, Macross city would logically have tons more. But yeah... I understand your point. You pretty much have to suspend your disbelief, and the same lot who are still clinging onto the hope that Macross 7 will just go away and disappear will probably be disappointed with Kawamori's decision to include this mysticism into the Macross universe.

It's kinda like George Lucas how he made all these great movies, then he had kids, and his movies got all weird and cutesy, and arguably, crappier. Kawamori obviously had some crazy revelation with all this Earth Love stuff, what with Arjuna and the upcoming Aquerious and he fully intends to incorporate it, for better or for worse, into Macross.

[Aegis!]

Ok.... something here bothers me. I don't understand how people can have such a difficult time accepting floating rocks when they can accept a 3/4 mile tall hologram hypnotizing an entire city. Sharon Apple did equally fantastic things with just as little explination (ok, I can accept a Hologram program around the Macross itself, even if only installed for the concert... but a FREE ROAMING hologram? All across the city? Creating holograms out of simple glass? Capable of projecting itself INSIDE the cockpit of a fighter where no projector exists?)

Get real people.... despite it's technical roots, Macross is all about the fantastic. One of it's primary story hooks (one of the few things I agree with Keith on) is that it's about the power of music... and the energy that comes from within during said music.

Pure speculation on my part, BUT:

Sharon was able to manipulate simple coaxial wires to suspend and strangle Myung

Sara used latent mystic energy (I speculate to be anima spiritia) to levitate the rocks.

Both are equally impossible in the real world (at least as the average person defines it... one or both may exist in theory or whatever...) Yet somehow people have no problem with Sharon Apple, or her part in Macross plus.

............. I fail to see the real difference.   

Ditto.

Even without taking into account all those things people fail to realise that everything in M0 such as the floating rocks have an explanatiion within the canon and the OVAs themselves.

The natives are decendant of the Protoculture or at the very least heavily altered humans (remember they were isolated for 1000s of years so their genes stayed pure hence the protoculture alterations stayed intact) so why couldn´t they manipulate rocks and such ?

Has anyone actually thought where the heck did the first anima spirita came from ? how did the PC know they could use spirita to affect the EVILs/protodeviln ? pure chance ? yeah right , in your dreams.

Did they came to earth JUST to make a bunch of poo-throwing monkeys walk on their two legs ?

Why did they ¨engineered¨ us to be capable of developing culture (paint , poetry , movies and.......MUSIC!!!!! ) after they made ¨culture-less¨ soldiers such as the Zentradis ?

THAT (hopefully) is where M0 is going to.

Edited June 8, 2004 by Aegis!

[treatment]

uhmm, ahem.

Sara was not singing when the floating rocks and the flying totem appeared during their escape in Zero's episode-4.

[Agent ONE]

uhmm, ahem.

Sara was not singing when the floating rocks and the flying totem appeared during their escape in Zero's episode-4.

No, but she screamed. And it was a kind of musical scream. I think she was begining to sing:

The Women of Robotech, La La La La La .. Laaaaa

[treatment]

uhmm, ahem.

Sara was not singing when the floating rocks and the flying totem appeared during their escape in Zero's episode-4.

No, but she screamed. And it was a kind of musical scream. I think she was begining to sing:

The Women of Robotech, La La La La La .. Laaaaa

rol!

Maybe Sara really freaked out coz Dr. Hasford threatened to make her listen to Basara's and Reba's songs back-to-back non-stop.

[Oihan]

Well, it seems I'm not the only one here convinced that it can't all be summed up in another 30 min episode. The whole thing with Roy, he was still flying when DD shot Roy's engine, I didn't seem him come crashing down. As for the flying totem, I have no problem with it. Just like Kieth has said about the Protoculture mastering mechanical science...if they can make wings change shape (like in Plus), why not have some biological science thrown in? Again with what Keith said and the Zentradi ("huge humans").

[ewilen]

Does anyone know why a VF-0 can't refuel with its gunpod mounted? That seemed contrived to me, but I'm willing to hear anybody's attempt at an in-story explanation.

Science vs. magic: while telekinesis is how people refer to it in sci-fi, and the underlying principles may be explained in different ways, it's still not "hard" SF since it's not based on real-world physics. Just saying "it's technology developed by the Protoculture" doesn't help much, although it may remove some of the "mystical/religious" feel which some dislike. Same goes for ESP, precognition, etc.

If I were to take a stab at firming up the science, I might try to make a connection to nanotechnology or quantum mechanics.

Anyway, I don't mind the drift into fantasy too much. Nor would I miss it if they left it out.

Edited June 9, 2004 by ewilen

[Panon]

Does anyone know why a VF-0 can't refuel with its gunpod mounted? That seemed contrived to me, but I'm willing to hear anybody's attempt at an in-story explanation.

I don't think the point was that it couldn't refuel with a gunpod mounted, just that they would not eject the gunpod for Roy to catch while it was being fueled.

At this point in time Roy is one of the few who can really handle a variable fighter with experience. Having a pilot switch to Gerwalk and catch something while taking on fuel while being something Roy might be able to pull off, would be a pretty risky move for most other pilots, hence being against regulations.

[wolfx]

Does anyone know why a VF-0 can't refuel with its gunpod mounted? That seemed contrived to me, but I'm willing to hear anybody's attempt at an in-story explanation.

Science vs. magic: while telekinesis is how people refer to it in sci-fi, and the underlying principles may be explained in different ways, it's still not "hard" SF since it's not based on real-world physics. Just saying "it's technology developed by the Protoculture" doesn't help much, although it may remove some of the "mystical/religious" feel which some dislike. Same goes for ESP, precognition, etc.

If I were to take a stab at firming up the science, I might try to make a connection to nanotechnology or quantum mechanics.

Anyway, I don't mind the drift into fantasy too much. Nor would I miss it if they left it out.

Like what Panon said. Remember that the gunpod cannot be reloaded in the field. Roy probably used up his last one with his battle with Ivanov, so they were carrying another one for him to take after he was done refuelling. Convienient I'd think. Refuel and reload.

And about science vs magic.....urmmm....since when did Macross ever wanted to be "hard" SF? Others already mentioned the fantasticalities of Macross so I won't go there. Enjoy the show.

PS: On unrelated note, I like the Japanese engrish term, ESPers, which is basically psychic people, who can use ESP. But technically, ESPERS would just have ...well..ESP, and not necessarily telepathy, nor telekinesis or empathy.

[Aegis!]

Does anyone know why a VF-0 can't refuel with its gunpod mounted? That seemed contrived to me, but I'm willing to hear anybody's attempt at an in-story explanation.

Science vs. magic: while telekinesis is how people refer to it in sci-fi, and the underlying principles may be explained in different ways, it's still not "hard" SF since it's not based on real-world physics. Just saying "it's technology developed by the Protoculture" doesn't help much, although it may remove some of the "mystical/religious" feel which some dislike. Same goes for ESP, precognition, etc.

If I were to take a stab at firming up the science, I might try to make a connection to nanotechnology or quantum mechanics.

Anyway, I don't mind the drift into fantasy too much. Nor would I miss it if they left it out.

As if stoping a whole fleet of giant soldiers witna pop idol kinda pop star was ever HARD SF

I´m an older fan too but many people here are just too utterly biased in favour of the original series intentionally ignoring all its flaws and throwing all kind of critics to the sequels for ruining their nostalgic moment. I can live without nostalgia , i love the original seies for what it is , not because it made me happy when i was 5 but because it´s great today (when summed to the sequels and makin one big image)

IMO if it wasn´t for M+ Macross or M0 Macross would simply not have much of a mature orientated plot, it would be just another 80´s space opera anime series.

SDF Macross wasn´t made for 28-35 year olds (like we´re now) in 1982 , it was made for kids , that´s why we all watched it ain´t it ? Whereas most (that means everything except 7) Macross sequels are orientated to today´s older fans , hence their content is much more consistent and serious than the original series , so why condem sequels for expanding and adding depth to the original plot when they´re much more adequate to our needs today ?

If there are flying rocks then let it be , the original show wasn´t any better in that department.

[Backstabber]

Anyone know what that thing is that was shown after the animals, directly after the frog? Speculation is birdman's head since it's body shimmered with the same kind of light or was it a crashed VF-0 turining to rock? It kind of looked like VF-1A head on top or did all VF-0's have four mountings? Whatever it is what was happening there?

Edited June 9, 2004 by Backstabber

[Achilles2ca]

Macross for me is where the mecha come second to the characters. I mean, if I want robots and no story I'll watch Gundam. But don't get me wrong, Macross without the mecha isn't Macross.

Thats why this episode is my favorite of the series so far. All the characters came out as did the world they inhabit (the jungle). The mecha's turnt up to accentuate the story.

Finally a solid episode. Great dogfights and animation as well.

[Graham]

Like what Panon said. Remember that the gunpod cannot be reloaded in the field. Roy probably used up his last one with his battle with Ivanov, so they were carrying another one for him to take after he was done refuelling. Convienient I'd think. Refuel and reload.

Actually, according to the Macross Compendium, the VF-0's GPU-9 35mm gunpod can be reloaded in the field as unlike the VF-1's GU-11 gunpod, spare magazines can be carried in the VF-0's leg-mounted FAST Packs. The Compendium has the following to say about the VF-0's armament: -

"ARMAMENT: One (VF-OA/D) or two (VF-0S) fixed Mauler laser cannons. One standard Howard GPU-9 35 mm gatling gun pod with 550 rounds (AHEAD rounds available). Maximum of twelve standard Raytheon Bifors AIM-200A AMRAAM 2 I/ALH-guided medium-range air-to-air missiles mounted on four hard points, each with a three-missile rack. Option of reactive armor parts or two atmospheric combat super parts (micro-missile launcher/conformal tanks with twenty-four Raytheon Erlikon GH-30B I/IR-guided micro-missiles each) mounted on leg/engine pods. The super part is also capable of storing spare magazine for the gun pod. Maximum payload of the VF-0D variant is 20% greater than the VF-0A/S variants. Capable of mounting most former United States/NATO standard aviation weaponry".

However, in episode # 3 of Macross Zero, when Roy has the Reactive Armor shot off by Ivanov, we can see that his VF-0S does not have the leg FAST Packs fitted, unlike in episode # 1 & 2. So yes, I agree that Roy's gunpod was probably empty by the end of his battle with Ivanov in episode # 3 and he had no spare ammo remaining and needed to obtain either a fresh gunpod or spare ammo.

Graham

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

Yeap, Sharon Apple was kind of a "fantastic" Macross Plus addition but not like this one

Just think of it as an ancient alien relic with anti-grav generators hidden inside the totem covering if it would make you feel better.

[Myriad]

Looks like the Queensryche "Promised Land" logo to me.....

Another episode that tells me again this series is not my cup of tea. Just like Macross 7, I won't be buying the DVD's.

Edited June 9, 2004 by Myriad

[Skull Leader]

ahhhh, got nothin' but love for da Queensryche

Classic rock, and that's a fact!

[Keith]

If I were to take a stab at firming up the science, I might try to make a connection to nanotechnology or quantum mechanics.

Even then, what is nanotechnology if not machines trying to replicate what cell's do. Would cell's engineered biologically to do what nanomachines do be considered magic? When it comes right down to it, all technology is, is oiur clumsy attempt to replicate biology with technology. Hell, look at the hydrolic pump, and guess what favorite part of most men's anatomy its derived from.

[wolfx]

Hell, look at the hydrolic pump, and guess what favorite part of most men's anatomy its derived from.

I don't think the hydraulic pump is derived from that, dude......but what do I know?

Graham: thanks for correcting me. But strange that later gunpods would not have the reloads and the VF-0 did. Maybe it jammed up to easy on the earlier models.

Edited June 9, 2004 by wolfx

[Graham]

Graham: thanks for correcting me. But strange that later gunpods would not have the reloads and the VF-0 did. Maybe it jammed up to easy on the earlier models.

Most later gunpoads can be reloaded by spare magazines carried on the Valk. Examples are: -

VF-11- 2 spare magazines carried under the shield.

VF-17 - Can carry 1 spare magazine in the left leg, although normally a beam-gun adaptor is carried instead.

YF-19 & VF-19 - 1 or 2 spare magazines (I forget which) stored under the shield.

The YF-21 & VF-22 carries two gunpods rather than carrying any spare magazines.

As for why the VF-0's gunpod can be reloaded in the field and the VF-1's gunpod can't is probably beacuse the VF-0 is an advanced testbed design with a lot of features that the VF-1 series does not have.

Graham

[John Focker]

Ok.... something here bothers me. I don't understand how people can have such a difficult time accepting floating rocks when they can accept a 3/4 mile tall hologram hypnotizing an entire city. Sharon Apple did equally fantastic things with just as little explination (ok, I can accept a Hologram program around the Macross itself, even if only installed for the concert... but a FREE ROAMING hologram? All across the city? Creating holograms out of simple glass? Capable of projecting itself INSIDE the cockpit of a fighter where no projector exists?)

Get real people.... despite it's technical roots, Macross is all about the fantastic. One of it's primary story hooks (one of the few things I agree with Keith on) is that it's about the power of music... and the energy that comes from within during said music.

Pure speculation on my part, BUT:

Sharon was able to manipulate simple coaxial wires to suspend and strangle Myung

Sara used latent mystic energy (I speculate to be anima spiritia) to levitate the rocks.

Both are equally impossible in the real world (at least as the average person defines it... one or both may exist in theory or whatever...) Yet somehow people have no problem with Sharon Apple, or her part in Macross plus.

............. I fail to see the real difference.   

Sharon Apple's music has been designed to influence the human brain from the very beginning. There was a scene where Myung was working with an assistant on music for the concert on Eden, and they were making assessments with the model brain's response. So there was a scientific foundation in the series, and at least in my opinion, the hypnosis scene at Macross City is not THAT far fetched.

As for Sharon Apple on the YF-19, the newer variable fighters (of course including the YF-19) have 360 deg view cockpits. Now, these may or may not be projector based, but at least indicates a possibility. Another feasible explanation would be to consider Sharon Apple's images on the YF-19 to be manifestations from the song hypnosis. It was depicted in the OVA that Sharon showed up AFTER Isamu and Yang heard her songs.

All in all, Macross Plus does not, IMHO, have any "magical elements".

In Macross Zero, only telekinesis could explain the "magic carpet" scene. Is telekinesis that unacceptable of a concept? The human brain is far from fully understood by today's scientific and medical standard, and it's easy to just categorize unexplainable phenomena to the "paranormal and/or supernatural." Given the creators' settings, the Protoculture probably has a MUCH better understanding of the human brain than we do now. And if they'd ever figure out the portion/mechanism behind telekinesis, it shouldn't be to hard to further enhance it and make rock levitation possible. As someone else has already suggested, built-in mini anti-grav devices (a la Guyver) sounds like a possibility too.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no big fan of the spiritia idea. It's just that I don't see Macross Zero becoming a "fantasy" show rather than a sci-fi show, as some might claim.

Edited June 9, 2004 by John Focker

[Sumdumgai]

All in all, Macross Plus does not, IMHO, have any "magical elements".

Myung sings Voices in a whisper while Isamu is hypnotised by Sharon.

Somehow Isamu hears this whispering voice through the closed canopy, from really far away, over the sounds of his engines. It sounds pretty magical to me...

[John Focker]

All in all, Macross Plus does not, IMHO, have any "magical elements".

Myung sings Voices in a whisper while Isamu is hypnotised by Sharon.

Somehow Isamu hears this whispering voice through the closed canopy, from really far away, over the sounds of his engines. It sounds pretty magical to me...

Either Myung or Isamu must have some Betazoid blood...

[Anubis]

Like we theorized before, maybe Kawamori will make some edits to the VF-1's specs. Update it a little as it were. Realisitcally there's no reason for the VF-1 to not be able to swap the clip on the gunpod, but until now that's what was on paper. Maybe even chaff/flare as well.

Now that both main guys have lost their valks, it could be safe to wager that we get VF-1's in ep 5. If the Asuka is in no position to get resupplied, then the Prometheus might show up after all with some jets that Skull will port into. There is no way that the two main guys will go valkyrie-less in the final episode, and it's obvious that the SV-51's have a serious edge over the VF-0. There will be no ass whooping from the good guys unless they get an upgrade. DD lit those other VF-0's up like they were gnats.

I;m sure the UN and Anti-un clash as part of the climax, but maybe they'll have to team against whatever the APHOS turnsout to be. That's the big question.

That would be pretty cool. Slugging it out with each other to then have to team against the bigger fish. Sounds familiar right?

Way out there theory: Before destroying it, the APHOS sends out some kind of signal into space. Knowing something big is probably coming to earth after that, the peace process may be egged into beginning. Unite or fall basically. Cut to Ataria Island and see Roy, DD, and Shin as squuadron commanders. DD as Blue Rose 001 would be cool.

Reallly though, I do think Shin and DD will be dead by the end of the show. Nora will be capped by Shin before that. Shin may do a suicide run on the APHOS or something. Roy will be the last pilot standing.

Edgar will be alive as well I think, dude has 9 lives. Shin will eject him from their D model before doing whatever he does. Either that, or Edgar will be found wounded, and Shin will take a VF-1A solo.

If Edgar dies it'll be like Forest Gump. Shin will find him mortally wounded in the jungle after the FAE's. Then be all pissed and confident after his death.

If Kawamori's not worrying about continuity that much, maybe Roy does meet Claudia through Edgar.

[Sumdumgai]

If Edgar dies it'll be like Forest Gump. Shin will find him mortally wounded in the jungle after the FAE's. Then be all pissed and confident after his death.

If Kawamori's not worrying about continuity that much, maybe Roy does meet Claudia through Edgar.

Shin: Mao, if I knew that was the last time I'd ever speak to Deadgar, I would have thought of something better to say...

Flashback

Shin: Hi Deadgar.

Edgar: Hi Shin. *dies*

OR

Claudia is really Edgar after some major hormone therapy and sex changing. Roy gets all depressed when whats-her-face steps on a meaner land-mine. Edgar is depressed after Shin bites the dust. Roy and Edgar get together...

Oh god, I can't belive I wrote this...

[bsu legato]

Nah, Episode 5 will open with Edgar freeing himself from his parachute harness and congratulating himself on surviving yet another crash. Then he'll look skyward and see an SV-51 fly over and drop one of those huge MOAB-looking bombs.

Edgar: Oh crap.....

*kaBOOOOOOOMMMMMMM!!!!!!!! *

[Stamen0083]

...if I want robots and no story I'll watch Gundam...

Sounds to me like you've never even seen a drop of Gundam.

If you haven't seen it, don't insult it.

[JValk]

Nah, Eps. 5 will have more pre-pubescent fan service. Yeah yeah, I know National Geographic shows kids without clothes on all the time, but a young Sara without her top? "The creators were just trying to be authentic as to the tropical native context..." Yeah right.