Advantages of an "upright" ship

[Mr March]

ACK!

Note to self: Always read the rest of the posts first Sorry ewilen but I was having so much fun I didn't see myself repesting some of the stuff ya said

Edited May 27, 2004 by Mr March

[Panon]

I once did an exhaustive analysis of the pros and cons of the Macross Class ship on the old boards a few years back.  I concluded the ship was most effective in Fortress mode and it was best never to transform

I don't know how you could come to that conclusion since Battle 7 is all but incapable of combat in Fortress mode.

I think people misunderstand Battle 7's actual role. In design it's less of a battleship and more of a carrier - it's main offense and defense are it's escort fleet and it's considerable fighter compliment. The Macross cannon is almost a secondary support weapon.

The situations that put Battle 7 into the middle of battle and where it's transformation and higher profile could have put it in danger were out of the ordinary, and even then the risk posed wasn't extremely high, due to it's strong barrier systems.

[Mr March]

I once did an exhaustive analysis of the pros and cons of the Macross Class ship on the old boards a few years back.  I concluded the ship was most effective in Fortress mode and it was best never to transform

I don't know how you could come to that conclusion since Battle 7 is all but incapable of combat in Fortress mode.

I think people misunderstand Battle 7's actual role. In design it's less of a battleship and more of a carrier - it's main offense and defense are it's escort fleet and it's considerable fighter compliment. The Macross cannon is almost a secondary support weapon.

The situations that put Battle 7 into the middle of battle and where it's transformation and higher profile could have put it in danger were out of the ordinary, and even then the risk posed wasn't extremely high, due to it's strong barrier systems.

I said Macross, not the Battle 7. I've never seen Macross 7 (aside from the first two episodes of 7, the Galaxy is Calling Me OVA, and the movie), so I wouldn't know if the Battle 7 follows the same rules. However, it would certainly suffer from the same failings in Storm Attacker/Robot mode.

Regardless, if the Battle 7 can only fire it's weapons in Robot mode, then obviously it would not be useful in Fortress mode. However, if it's true that it is primarily a carrier and its strength lies in the carrier role, then the Battle 7 would do well to avoid transformation too.

[ewilen]

No prob, Mr. March, I enjoyed your post. I suspect you're slightly off in saying that there are some naval vessels which can't fire a broadside with all guns for fear of capsizing. I know that the Agincourt, which had largest number of big guns on a broadside of all modern battleships--fourteen 12" guns--was able to fire a broadside with all guns in spite of rumors that shewould break her back doing so. Other battleships undoubtedly had a greater weight of broadside yet I can't recall hearing of one that was in danger of capsizing when firing a full broadside. It is sometimes claimed that battleships are displaced sideways when firing their guns but this page argues convincingly that such is not the case, due not only to the inertia of the battleship but also to the recoil systems of the big guns.

Nevertheless, I have read that a broadside has a noticeable effect on a battleship's roll. In 1913, the British navy performed a test of "director firing", which was a method of centrally controlling the moment of firing for all the ship's big guns. (Possibly one gun per turret.) During the competitive test, with one ship using director firing and the other using independent gun firing, it was noted that the ship fitted with the director system experienced less roll because all the guns consistently fired on the down roll.

Regarding lasers and recoil--after some doubts, I did more searching and I'm pretty sure that the photon beam from a laser will produce recoil (though fairly small). Suggested keywords for a google search: photon emission recoil

[Mr March]

Thanks ewilen. I guess I was mistaken about the modern warships capsizing. I can't recall where I heard that from, but I once thought it was an early British ship that once did it. But I may very well be mistaken.

I'm kinda unclear about the recoil of a laser weapon. While the debate over "little mass" versus "no mass" in photons still rages, I would think there would be some kind of recoil even if the weapon itself fires very little mass.

[Final Vegeta]

About the debate on what a photon is, I suggest this site:

Wave Theory of the Field

I won't say I've read and understood all of it, but I kinda agree with author's philosophy.

Anyway, Galilei and Hawking were wrong (sorry, no Black Holes, Big Bang or whatever)

As for the photon, I think that even without mass it could carry some kinetic energy. After all, E = mc^2, energy and mass are related.

Btw, according to that theory in Storm Attacker mode a Macross class ship would actually be able to travel faster than in Battle Fortress mode

FV