How to save Star Trek

[zeta]

You know what I've always wanted to see (I think Capt. Rico would agree)? I'd like to see an animation team in Japan work their way into a Trek anime. I would KILL to see how they'd come up with their Starship battles. How sweet would that be? B)

I've been saying that for years!

[Skippy438]

ugh, anime trek ... you guys are killing me

[uminoken]

A lot of shows "write themselves out" rather than get cancelled all together. Look at Space: Above and Beyond. When their writers and producers found out their show was getting the axe they slaughtered everyone off in a "if you're pulling the plug then we'll see to it we never come back" fashion.

I still love that ending to S:AAB, great way to stick it to the network and it fit with the whole mood of the show. As to ST's demise, I think the major reason VOY, the TNG movies (and probly ENT) have failed/are failing is all due to serious lack of character development. Put Voyager's and Enterprise's pilots up against the series/season finale and we see the EXACT same characters, no growth at all. In the movies the character's all come out with no scarring, no lasting effects, a personell "reset button" as it were. Compare that to DS9, B5, (or some extent TNG's) pilot episodes and you can barely see the resemblance between the young and older versions of themselves. That's really what most shows on the air today need right now.

[Mr March]

Why does everyone keep calling on the dead spirit of Babylon 5... it lasted 5 seasons, so what? It's round about the ONLY Sci fi TV show other than Star Trek that didn't get cancelled by it's third season... wait, other than the new Star Treks as the original did get cancelled. And what's with the "leaves fans wanting more" thing? EVERY show that goes off the air leaves it's fans wanting more. I know people that are still pissed COP ROCK got the shaft. A lot of shows "write themselves out" rather than get cancelled all together. Look at Space: Above and Beyond. When their writers and producers found out their show was getting the axe they slaughtered everyone off in a "if you're pulling the plug then we'll see to it we never come back" fashion. Babylon 5 is not unique... so then... why did Babylon 5 supposedly "succeed"? Because it's creators where smart enough to know when they're show was not going to amount to anything more than a trek clone with a sparse fanbase they pulled the plug and chose to "write the show out" before their thin non-network backing ran out on them. What has Babylon 5 done lately? A bunch of sad made for TV movies that aired all of once (if at all) on Sci-Fi network. Pretty pitiful for such a "popular" series... If you want to talk "non-trek sci-fit TV" longevity, Babylon 5 is the weakest of examples. What about Stargate SG1? It's in it's fifth season now and still supposedly going strong. SG1 was going to get the axe but someone picked up the reigns and saw to it that the show soldiered on... SG1 runs on what, one cable channel now and is in syndication on two major networks afterhours? At it's height Babylon 5 was on UHF stations in select markets... and the last two seasons got dropped from a lot of those stations that carried it so they could run Hockey and Baseball games instead.

Sci Fi on TV is weak at best and it's only chances for market share come in syndication, like Star Trek found out. Here in the midwest, TNG put up better numbers running in late night syndication than it ever did first run on the network. If syndication had not exsisted the original Star Trek would have died and been buried long ago, along with Gilligan's Island, I Dream of Jeanie and Lost in Space.

Turn on the gas, let Trek slip under and then put the drano in the IV and let nature take it's course.

I'm backing out of this thread because I am now feeling real anger towards Trek and that is unhealthy.

Babylon 5 is not dead, nor even close. Just because product isn't on television doesn't mean a franchise is dead. Star Wars had one of the largest followings for well over 15 years before another film was made....over 8 years from the release of ROTJ before a novel or comic book saw store shelves. Every time a Babylon 5 DVD season is released it stays on Amazon's top 100 list for over a month in the upper ranks. Babylon 5 ran it's full five year run and finished. It was never written out. JMS had the telepath crisis and the fall of centauri prime planned for 5th season every since the commencement of the series first season. The only thing re-written was the EA civil war for season 4 as opposed to 4-5 crossover. And Babylon 5 was written as 5 years...total. No more, no less.

And I said the audience was begging for more...not fans. Fans cry for material whether it's good, poor, or sucks space dust. Trek's continuation of crap product for decades is proof positive of fan appetite for any garbage with their favorite label. Sit down a non-fan to watch Phantom Menace or Voyager and they'll most likely murder you before 10 minutes are up.

Babylon 5 didn't appeal to a mainstream television audience. And it shouldn't, because most television veiwers would rather watch Temptation Island or Days of Our Lives. The fact that Babylon 5 broke every convention of television production and managed to stay on the air and complete an entire 5 year story is nothing short of a miracle. I'm not defending Babylon 5 as an extremely popular show or a prime time success. However, you can downplay it's longevity in a instant gratification industry all you want and you won't make its "ghost" go away. If people want to constantly point out why Babylon 5 worked despite everything against it, they have every right to do so.

[JsARCLIGHT]

I should have phrased my angry response better...

Babylon 5 did not "play the game" like Star Trek is doing right now. They never did and aparently have not been given another chance. They are popular on DVD because that is about all their fans can get right now. When it comes to things made for and broadcast on network and cable TV in this day and age they have to fit a certain market to even get a green light for a pilot. Notice how much trek has changed over the years. The last preview I saw for Enterprise was more about the vulcan chick getting naked than about the story. Trek has fallen victim to sensationalism because they know they have to do that to gather the viewers as their sad stories are all refurbished hand me downs from the other incarnations of itself. A sad token fanbase of viewers is not going to keep a show on the air, shows need to put up "the numbers", the "demos" and prove to their backers that they are money in the bank. That is what makes television nowadays. In your own direction of reasoning: Trek needs to take a page from the Babylon 5 playbook. Write their show from day one with the end in sight (or at least make it seem that way) and then rest on their laurels by releasing several direct to video movies.

My point however remains the same, Sci-fi on broadcast TV or cable is a very weak market in the US and there is no room for "special" shows or "unique" shows any more. Heads of broadcasting companies are not willing to risk the bucks on a "substance" show any more, it all has to be tits and guns, death and cussing, fast cars and faster women. Trek needs to die for right now and figure out what to do in a few years when the market changes again. And if the market continues the way it is going when Trek comes back it will be a porno on a network channel.

[bsu legato]

I'd still have rather saved Farscape... <_

[Mr March]

I should have phrased my angry response better...

Babylon 5 did not "play the game" like Star Trek is doing right now. They never did and aparently have not been given another chance. They are popular on DVD because that is about all their fans can get right now. When it comes to things made for and broadcast on network and cable TV in this day and age they have to fit a certain market to even get a green light for a pilot. Notice how much trek has changed over the years. The last preview I saw for Enterprise was more about the vulcan chick getting naked than about the story. Trek has fallen victim to sensationalism because they know they have to do that to gather the viewers as their sad stories are all refurbished hand me downs from the other incarnations of itself. A sad token fanbase of viewers is not going to keep a show on the air, shows need to put up "the numbers", the "demos" and prove to their backers that they are money in the bank. That is what makes television nowadays. In your own direction of reasoning: Trek needs to take a page from the Babylon 5 playbook. Write their show from day one with the end in sight (or at least make it seem that way) and then rest on their laurels by releasing several direct to video movies.

My point however remains the same, Sci-fi on broadcast TV or cable is a very weak market in the US and there is no room for "special" shows or "unique" shows any more. Heads of broadcasting companies are not willing to risk the bucks on a "substance" show any more, it all has to be tits and guns, death and cussing, fast cars and faster women. Trek needs to die for right now and figure out what to do in a few years when the market changes again. And if the market continues the way it is going when Trek comes back it will be a porno on a network channel.

I suppose that's true. But then again television will change as did film. One of the reasons independant film is becoming such a lucrative marktet now is because it was a direct response to the change in Hollywood. Hollywood used to produce box office fluff and all the old films with story like what the independant market does now. As Hollywood changed and started doing almost all fluff, the other markets (like independant and foreign) ran ahead to make up the difference. Now you see independant titles and foreign films in mainstream release.

Television is seeing a similar shift, with specialty channels. As time goes on, they'll get better and more people will stop watching the regular crap on prime time as the specialty channels begin to win over veiwers and they become easier to obtain.

[Captain of the SDF-1 Macross]

I'd still have rather saved Farscape...

There's some hope that Farscape may get its last story arc, in which I found the news on the web:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/news/cult/2003/0...7/17/5781.shtml

I wish them luck in finishing the story they wanted to do.

[zeus the zentran]

how bout dis put star trek to sleep like the dying dog it is.next generation was too damn politically correct.the characters were dull and walked around like they had sticks up their butts and it got too preachy i remember on voyager that bill shatner wanna-be character was lecturing an alien about smoking,if iwas that alien i would say"man you better get off my planet and go frakk a tribble!!!!!!!"what was cool about the original the people acted more like real people and the stories were good and made you think so you'd get whatever message you want out of it.

[JB0]

I demand that Star Trek The Animated Series be resurrected.

All must see the lost battle of the Man-Kzin Wars, Kirk VS Tony the Tiger.

...

An excellent example of why the series deserves attention, actually.

They had respected, talented writers making stories. Stories that couldn't be done in a live-aciton show of the day.

For everything they did to be swept under the rug like it has been really isn't fair to what was really a rather good, if short-lived, series.

[SuperOstrich]

I'm not much of a Trekkie, and that's probably why I enjoy Enterprise. I enjoy Sci-fi. And as a sci-fi series, it's not all that bad. Some episodes are actually great. I'm really enjoying the non-episodic nature they're going for this season so far.

[JB0]

I'm not much of a Trekkie, and that's probably why I enjoy Enterprise. I enjoy Sci-fi. And as a sci-fi series, it's not all that bad. Some episodes are actually great. I'm really enjoying the non-episodic nature they're going for this season so far.

I AM a Trekkie, and I enjoy Enterprise.

It's a nice throwback to the old Captain Kirk style of show.

I loathe the serial nature of the current season though.

The "planet of the week" format that some people are complaining about is part of what made Star Trek Star Trek in the first place.

I'm very disappointed to see them 180 back from the old-school "pick a direction, pick a star, and let's go look at it" format.

On the other hand, I love seeing the captain on away missions again. That was something Next Generation blew completely.

The captain should be on the ground leading the away team, not on the bridge staring at a viewscreen while sitting in the comfy chair.

[Nied]

I think one of the things that's plauging the Trek franchise is that "continuity fatigue" is setting in. The same thing happened to UC Gundam and I think that maybe something similar to what they did for the Gundam franchise might be in order for Trek. I'm not saying we need Star Trek Wing here, but something along the same lines. Boil the franchise down to it's basic componenets and start over from scratch (I think this includes getting a new creative team). After a few false starts it worked for Gundam, I don't see why it couldn't work for Trek too.

[JB0]

I think one of the things that's plauging the Trek franchise is that "continuity fatigue" is setting in.  The same thing happened to UC Gundam and I think that maybe something similar to what they did for the Gundam franchise might be in order for Trek.  I'm not saying we need Star Trek Wing here, but something along the same lines.  Boil the franchise down to it's basic componenets and start over from scratch (I think this includes getting a new creative team).  After a few false starts it worked for Gundam, I don't see why it couldn't work for Trek too.

Continuity? In Star Trek?

Where?

Seriously, I think that was the point behind making Enterprise take place before the original Star Trek.

Edited September 21, 2003 by JB0

[DestroidsRage]

I still like my idea the best.

A story about a /crappy/ federation ship. Inferior in every way to the Hot Dogs of the Star Trek universe. A ship that despite its limitations, goes above and beyond the call of duty on a regular basis. The kind of ship that WONT always win, but will put up a damn good fight. A Star Trek show about underdogs.

No more of these super powerful Lead starships.

-BEN-MAN-

[JB0]

I still like my idea the best.

A story about a /crappy/ federation ship. Inferior in every way to the Hot Dogs of the Star Trek universe. A ship that despite its limitations, goes above and beyond the call of duty on a regular basis. The kind of ship that WONT always win, but will put up a damn good fight. A Star Trek show about underdogs.

No more of these super powerful Lead starships.

-BEN-MAN-

Wasn't that Deep Space 9?

[Abombz!!]

I still like my idea the best.

A story about a /crappy/ federation ship. Inferior in every way to the Hot Dogs of the Star Trek universe. A ship that despite its limitations, goes above and beyond the call of duty on a regular basis. The kind of ship that WONT always win, but will put up a damn good fight. A Star Trek show about underdogs.

No more of these super powerful Lead starships.

-BEN-MAN-

Wasn't that Deep Space 9?

No... I think that was Star Trek 3 and Star Trek 6... with the Excelsior around and all.

[Captain of the SDF-1 Macross]

ugh, anime trek ... you guys are killing me

I found some fanart pics, though I don't know where they're from.

[Captain of the SDF-1 Macross]

Here's another...

[Captain of the SDF-1 Macross]

...and the last one I could find.