How to save Star Trek

[MrDisco]

if one of the suggestions is to put it on extended hiatus then i ask whats the difference? what will significantly change in 5-10yrs that will make ST viable then as opposed to now? the only thing i can think of is writers. so to me the solution is simple..get new creative blood into the franchise and dump the leeches who are in it for the cash cow. i think the interest is there for a good sci-fi series (b/c i cant think of anything good on tv right now that fits that bill).

1. no old characters. let them die a peaceful death. no cameos, no passing references, nothing. the ST universe is mature enough now that it doesn't need old characters to establish the plot.

2. personally i'm not a fan of prequels. they're too limiting. once you've setup future plot lines you can't go back and try expand those boundaries..not easily anyway

3. i like the idea of basing it on a lesser known section of Starfleet. they may not have the best equipement, or the brightest people but they still can get the job done.

4. expand on elements like section31, those aliens from earlier season of TNG that infilitrated itsway to the top of Starfleet command (and one of the grossest eps of TNG i've seen imo), etc.

or failing all that kill the franchise and never bring it back. ever.

[locutus]

oooo...cool! it's nice to see a fighter in ST once in a while. be cool to see like a Carrier on the Enterprise show...

fighter on action....

Edited September 7, 2003 by locutus

[Captain of the SDF-1 Macross]

oooo...cool! it's nice to see a fighter in ST once in a while. be cool to see like a Carrier on the Enterprise show...

The non-canon PS-1 video game Star Trek: Invasion also featured ST starfighers and carrier vessels. Activision did asked the guys at Paramount to design the ships and fighters for the game.

CaptRico did some fanart of the game at the old message board, in which he modified the Federation's Valkyrie-class starfighter into a transformable mecha.

[Captain of the SDF-1 Macross]

um...one question: what are you on??

I'm on vent-up rage loaded with adrelalin due to some Voyager episodes, specifically any Voyager ep featuring the Borg.

(It's not my fault though because someone else in the house is watching the episode)

Besides, any episode featuring the Cybermen (from the TV show Dr. Who) has shown to kick butt and very evil as it builds up over time.

The Borg, however, become more and more wussified over time.

[Lightning]

The Borg, however, become more and more wussified over time.

i definately agree, they got their butt kicked too easily in First Contact .

[Abombz!!]

Oh... you Excelsior loving fools... theres a new Star Trek game coming... and its about the Excelsior getting stuck on an alternate reality in which they have to fight the federation alongside the Klingons. Its the same fighter type game that Invasion was.

As for reviving Star Trek.... do we really want to? Isn't Star Trek one of those franchises that should have remained in the 20th century?

[Captain of the SDF-1 Macross]

Oh... you Excelsior loving fools... theres a new Star Trek game coming... and its about the Excelsior getting stuck on an alternate reality in which they have to fight the federation alongside the Klingons. Its the same fighter type game that Invasion was.

Here's the link about the game:

http://www.gamespy.com/previews/august03/s...tartreksumulti/

The game "Shattered Universe", involves not only the Excelsior but also we get to see the Mirror Universe in a game again (the first was "Elite Force". There, Captain Sulu of the Excelsior will be battling against Captain Chekov of the Enterprise-A.

What's not surprising is that Activision is not making the game. What is surprising is that TDK Mediactive is doing this game.

As for reviving Star Trek.... do we really want to? Isn't Star Trek one of those franchises that should have remained in the 20th century?

B&B has poisoned it too much already. If it's gonna die in a whimper, B&B must die along with it.

[Lightning]

BB&B?

[Abombz!!]

What's not surprising is that Activision is not making the game. What is surprising is that TDK Mediactive is doing this game. 

I guess thats a reason for me to be worried then.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Soooooooo basically what I am hearing is that everyone wants Star Trek to be more like all the other sci-fi shows that got cancelled?

I still say kill the bitch and bury it upside down so it doesn't come back as a zombie five years from now. That'll learn 'em.

[Wolf13]

Actualy JsArclight, the only show I've seen mentioned here is B5 which didn't get canceled, it ended...big difference. So I don't get your point.

A lot of people seem to want Trek to just die off. I disagree, but perhaps it >is< better than to seeit keep spiraling down. IMHO theres still a chance to save it, tho. It hasn't been ALL bad lately, even Enterprise, Voyager and Nemesis got me cracking a smile or raising an eyebrown once in a while.

I do think there need to be some drastic changes, tho. We'll see what happens.

I like the idea of a new series set in the TOS movies era, tho I hardly think George Takei is the one to do it. The Enterprise B is certainly a posibility tho, since we know next to nothing of what became of her. They wouldn't even need to use the same Captain from generations, since the original Enterprise was captained by April and Pike before Kirk...

[David Hingtgen]

Yup yup. Ent-B is known to have had a long (50 years or so) career. Model still exists, may or may not have been repainted since its last appearance as the Lakota. And that's still one of the largest Trek miniatures ever made, detailed and good enough for today's FX. (It is HUGE, far larger than the Ent-A or Ent-D models) (yes I know there's multiple Ent-D's) Dunno about the Ent-E model--I know it's very large, but never seen a good pic of the whole thing for scale.

And I have little hope for a TDK Trek game.

[JsARCLIGHT]

My point was that you cannot add things to a show and expect to change it for the better. Star Trek is what it is: Bonanza in space. A bunch of uptight 19th century brittish navy wannabes dragging out the same boring ass plot for ten seasons and five different shows. Adding "fighters" and "carriers" and "new different things" will only do more to alienate the core audience and burn the show out faster. EVERY TV show in history runs it's course, no matter how popular... why aren't we seeing Night Court the Next Litigation, ALF Beyond Thunderdome or Doctor Quinn: Deep West 9? Because people in power know when to kill something... Star Trek needs to die.

[EXO]

The only way to save the show is to get rid of the orchestral theme song and bring back that screaming lady from the original...

Actually the music from new Gen and Voyager were pretty good.

[Keith]

I think they need to incorperate a cohesive season plot where the Earth is in great peril & all hope lies with only 1 ship & one mystical female alien. All the while being dogged by a massive alien fleet trying to kill them, and regularly ripping the ship a new one as it hobbles its way across space. YES!

Seriously though, that's the problem with ST now. There's no mystery, there's no danger that can't be overcome within an episode or 2 without some over compensating technical solution, there's no excitment. I say kill a ships crew or two, blow up major portions of the ship like in Wrath of Kahn or Undiscovered Country. Point huge rocks at the Earth & rip up its atmosphere with only 1 slim chance of hope that takes over 20 episodes to find. Everyone has become too "safe" & "solution of the week. The last good american sci-fi show was Babylon 5. And even that was tarnished by TNT dipping too deep into Crusade.

Edited September 8, 2003 by Keith

[Agent ONE]

I know how to save Star Trek... End it, let it fade away, then in 20 years re release the orig show on DVD.... Or maybe just end it.

[zeta]

I know how to save trek...

Give ME the helm, im completely insane!

Lets put a exploration fleet on the show, yes a fleet.

The fleet has all the support ships a modern fleet has!

Voyager, Enterprise and DS9 are non-canon!

And the flagship of my fleet is the NCC - 7705 USS CLANCY, named for an old Federation President...

Its motley crew of lunatics will have...

Captain Charles Woodmansey, a man with mild OCD everything has to be right for him

1st officer Sarah Ronson, a female first officer who spends her time as a SM master on the holodeck, torturing her holo-slaves

Engineer Lt. Commander Gary Bolder, an extremely racist man with a massive temper, a genius engineer though...

The Doctor will be Michael Barret, a nice man with a nasty drug habit. (something similar to amphetamines)

Navigator - Joshua Roberts the only well adjusted person on the ship

Thers more, but basically everyone is messed up...

set 50 years after tng, its dark and based around story arcs, It will start at the end of a massive war against some alien race, the Clancy fleet is escorting a diplomatic mission to end this war, the settlement is a mutual agreement where a buffer zone is set up, the fleet will be simply body guards to a diplomatic mission and no negotiation will be on screen. Minus a press release or two... After the diplomatic mission the fleet returns to earth and gets its fuel topped off and heads out into the unknown...

[RicePiece]

My friends and I have had this conversation over lunch so many times

Basically we've talked about all of the same thing you guys have mentioned:

• The too episodic nature of the storylines
  
• The lack of (lasting) character development
  
• Too much filler - see Transporter Accident eps
  
• The ruining of the Borg
  
• And my biggest personal beef - everything ALWAYS works out, just by doing the right thing!!
  

With these points in mind, what we've come up with is a "covert Ops" type of star trek series. Tell the story of the ppl that do things behind the scenes that make it possible for caption X to do the "right thing" and have it work out. These are the guys that are experimenting and using the cloaking device, the meta-genic weapons. These are the guys that do not work within the constraints of the Prime Directive.

I think you could do some really good stuff with this. Character development, which is sorely lacking on all star trek series, could be really well done - you could have the characters who have no problems with what they need to do to maintain the federation, as well as the character who is reluctantly acting out of a sense of duty. If they really wanna get serious about characters, Paramount might wanna think about stealing some writers away from something like E.R. They're characters are fantastic - engaging, FLAWED and evolving - in short - they are human - not whatever the hell ST has been serving up for years.

This could also explaing why the Borg / cardassians / Klingons / Romulans have never been able to get a decisive win over the Federation.

So, what do you think?

[EXO]

I know how to save trek...

Give ME the helm, im completely insane!

Lets put a exploration fleet on the show, yes a fleet.

The fleet has all the support ships a modern fleet has!

Voyager, Enterprise and DS9 are non-canon!

And the flagship of my fleet is the NCC - 7705 USS CLANCY, named for an old Federation President...

Its motley crew of lunatics will have...

Captain Charles Woodmansey, a man with mild OCD everything has to be right for him

1st officer Sarah Ronson, a female first officer who spends her time as a SM master on the holodeck, torturing her holo-slaves

Engineer Lt. Commander Gary Bolder, an extremely racist man with a massive temper, a genius engineer though...

The Doctor will be Michael Barret, a nice man with a nasty drug habit. (something similar to amphetamines)

Navigator - Joshua Roberts the only well adjusted person on the ship

Thers more, but basically everyone is messed up...

set 50 years after tng, its dark and based around story arcs, It will start at the end of a massive war against some alien race, the Clancy fleet is escorting a diplomatic mission to end this war, the settlement is a mutual agreement where a buffer zone is set up, the fleet will be simply body guards to a diplomatic mission and no negotiation will be on screen. Minus a press release or two... After the diplomatic mission the fleet returns to earth and gets its fuel topped off and heads out into the unknown...

I'd TiVO that!

[BoBe-Patt]

(sigh).....Like all other long running shows, it's gotta end. Like X-files, and soon to be Simpsons, and Friends. I say it's about time star trek ended. I was never a fan of the series. I only liked the movies, it was quick and easy. You can only have so much of a series before you get sick of it.

[zeta]

I know how to save trek...

Give ME the helm, im completely insane!

Lets put a exploration fleet on the show, yes a fleet.

The fleet has all the support ships a modern fleet has!

Voyager, Enterprise and DS9 are non-canon!

And the flagship of my fleet is the NCC - 7705 USS CLANCY, named for an old Federation President...

Its motley crew of lunatics will have...

Captain Charles Woodmansey, a man with mild OCD everything has to be right for him

1st officer Sarah Ronson, a female first officer who spends her time as a SM master on the holodeck, torturing her holo-slaves

Engineer Lt. Commander Gary Bolder, an extremely racist man with a massive temper, a genius engineer though...

The Doctor will be Michael Barret, a nice man with a nasty drug habit. (something similar to amphetamines)

Navigator - Joshua Roberts the only well adjusted person on the ship

Thers more, but basically everyone is messed up...

set 50 years after tng, its dark and based around story arcs, It will start at the end of a massive war against some alien race, the Clancy fleet is escorting a diplomatic mission to end this war, the settlement is a mutual agreement where a buffer zone is set up, the fleet will be simply body guards to a diplomatic mission and no negotiation will be on screen. Minus a press release or two... After the diplomatic mission the fleet returns to earth and gets its fuel topped off and heads out into the unknown...

I'd TiVO that!

Yes, the problem with star trek has always been the lack of complete lunatics

[Abombz!!]

I know how to save trek...

Give ME the helm, im completely insane!

Lets put a exploration fleet on the show, yes a fleet.

The fleet has all the support ships a modern fleet has!

Voyager, Enterprise and DS9 are non-canon!

And the flagship of my fleet is the NCC - 7705 USS CLANCY, named for an old Federation President...

Its motley crew of lunatics will have...

Captain Charles Woodmansey, a man with mild OCD everything has to be right for him

1st officer Sarah Ronson, a female first officer who spends her time as a SM master on the holodeck, torturing her holo-slaves

Engineer Lt. Commander Gary Bolder, an extremely racist man with a massive temper, a genius engineer though...

The Doctor will be Michael Barret, a nice man with a nasty drug habit. (something similar to amphetamines)

Navigator - Joshua Roberts the only well adjusted person on the ship

Thers more, but basically everyone is messed up...

set 50 years after tng, its dark and based around story arcs, It will start at the end of a massive war against some alien race, the Clancy fleet is escorting a diplomatic mission to end this war, the settlement is a mutual agreement where a buffer zone is set up, the fleet will be simply body guards to a diplomatic mission and no negotiation will be on screen. Minus a press release or two... After the diplomatic mission the fleet returns to earth and gets its fuel topped off and heads out into the unknown...

I'd TiVO that!

Yes, the problem with star trek has always been the lack of complete lunatics

Oh yeah! The only way to save Star Trek is to turn it into a parody of its former self.

[EXO]

...and soon to be Simpsons...

I find the Simpsons to be suprisingly funny still and I really don't see it going away soon...

is it?

Unless one of the main voice actors die, why would they stop?

[JsARCLIGHT]

I find the Simpsons to be suprisingly funny still and I really don't see it going away soon...

With any luck the Simpsons will go the way of Sienfeld, Cheers and others and leave on a high note. It's much better for a show to graciously bow out in the spotlight than be dragged kicking and screaming from it's dressing room and hurled into the street like most shows have to endure...

As for Star Trek, I repeat my plea: kill it. Take it out back behind the shed so the kids don't hear the shotgun.

[Captain of the SDF-1 Macross]

Oh yeah! The only way to save Star Trek is to turn it into a parody of its former self.

Sci-fi comedy in the lines of Galaxy Quest or Red Drawf?!?!? Thumbs up for me.

[Captain of the SDF-1 Macross]

Unless one of the main voice actors die, why would they stop?

Well, Phil Hartman is dead (Troy McClure and Lionel Hutz) and so is Doris Grau (Lunchlady Doris). The producers decided not to feature them anymore on the show as a sign of respect.

Bleeding Gums Murphy and Dr. Marvin Monroe were given deaths because the writers couldn't think of what to do with them on the show. Yet, Murphy was given a proper farewell episode.

Maggie Roswell, who played Maude, walked out in disgust when the producers rejected her demands for a raise and her character was given a swift death.

[Captain of the SDF-1 Macross]

I think they need to incorperate a cohesive season plot where the Earth is in great peril & all hope lies with only 1 ship & one mystical female alien. All the while being dogged by a massive alien fleet trying to kill them, and regularly ripping the ship a new one as it hobbles its way across space. YES!

Ah, yes, Star Blazers' Season 2: The Comet Empire story.

Sadly, I don't think the producers would go that way because they don't an equivalent of mystical female alien and the only thing close to that description is Kes.

Seriously though, that's the problem with ST now. There's no mystery, there's no danger that can't be overcome within an episode or 2 without some over compensating technical solution, there's no excitment.

Ditto. Other than technobabble solutions, there's nothing exciting every day they encounter new species. When you see a Class-M planet, you seen it all.

TOS would have Kirk and co. encounter superior lifeforms like Greek god Apollo, evil-powered computers and the like. Q himself sums up this premise of superior lifeforms, "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you'd better just go home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wonderous, filled with wonders to satiate desires both suttle and gross, but it's not for the timid."

As it turned out later, there hasn't been anything since Q or Naghilian. The species found in the Gamma and Delta Quadrants are no more than equal to the Feds' scientific/military might. Most of them are no more than carbon-copied versions of Alpha/Beta aliens.

Uber-powered should get a comeback.

I say kill a ships crew or two, blow up major portions of the ship like in Wrath of Kahn or Undiscovered Country.

The Enterprise and the Defiant are the only ships that get the honor of being destroyed, though. The rest of the ships become cannon fodder.

The producers don't show battle-damaged ships that often anymore is that they felt that it would increase the special FX costs. The last ship to underwent progressive damage was Voyager but all of that was gone by the press of a reset button.

Point huge rocks at the Earth & rip up its atmosphere with only 1 slim chance of hope that takes over 20 episodes to find. Everyone has become too "safe" & "solution of the week.

Not to mention the ability to repair machines in the matter of 10 minutes, which is impossible to do wonder repairs at the drop of a hat. I know that technology improves over time but that doesn't mean that repairs should be applied the same way.

The last good american sci-fi show was Babylon 5. And even that was tarnished by TNT dipping too deep into Crusade.

The last one in my book is Farscape. Every sci-fi show has dropped to the lowest common denominator in terms of profit and ratings.

Time to pop in one of my Star Blazers DVDs in the player to put me back into ease.

[Captain of the SDF-1 Macross]

Star Trek is what it is: Bonanza in Space. A bunch of uptight 19th century brittish navy wannabes dragging out the same boring ass plot for ten seasons and five different shows.

Which is not surprising, since Roddenberry once worked on TV westerns and crime drama before he started on sci-fi TV. It also shown how he thinks on how combat should be: 19th century tactics that are obsolete in today's evolution of warfare.

GR didn't like the way TOS and Movies 1-6 were going towards military-oriented stories are shown on ST, which prompted him to make TNG. And that resulted in his view of a touchy feely future that shows the Feds being naive and hypocrite towards foriegn policies. Not to mention that it shows that GR was an atheist, socialist and a humanist.

Kirk's era got success due to the fact that most of the greatness was done by someone other than GR. Gene Coon and DC Fontana put the show to life and Nicholas Meyer turned the movie series into a success after ST:TMP didn't turned out well.

The bad thing was that Berman and Braga followed GR's views to the letter and turning ST into the mudturd it's now.

And yes, it should be shot dead and stay dead. It's too poisoned up now and those B&B lovers are deluting themselves.

[Captain of the SDF-1 Macross]

It hasn't been ALL bad lately, even Enterprise, Voyager and Nemesis got me cracking a smile or raising an eyebrown once in a while.

Oh, really. Those three you mentioned have shot up the ST franchise to go worse.

Voyager had a good premise but it sucked due to bad writing and making the crew of Voyager as a happy family. Not to mention it was in direct competion against DS9, a show not runned by B&B and it turned out better. Even Robert Beltran (Chakotay) even publicly complained about it and his character but it wasn't enough to get him fired and he got a trip to purgatory no thanks to B&B.

Enterprise had serious problems and the only thing that impressed me is the phase pistol and the communicator:

* Technology that wasn't supposed to be there such as holodecks and forcefields.

* Instead of Klingons looking like dark-skinned humans with beards, we get Jethro Thul look-alike rejects.

* Instead of Orion women looking like green-skinned exotic dancers, we get Circus de Soliei rejects that change color from different lighting angles. Phfff.

* Romulans get cloaking devices 100 years too early.

* Vulcans become very un-Vulcan, ending up with sticks up their a** after watching too many X-Files episodes featuring Sculley.

Nemesis sucked because of the following:

* The movie took the brunt of competing blockbusters at the time: LOTR-The Two Towers, James Bond's Die Another Day, Maid in Manhatten and so on. Nemesis was bited off and chewed off at the box office.

* The whole plot sucks. Shinzon was typecasted as evil from the start without knowing his angst and stupidity vent his anger on Earth instead on the Romulans, who were his tormenters. And Data got a stupid death that can be easily avoided.

* The movie looked like a TV episode, which they never put the movie budget to full potential.

* Janeway as Admiral is very wrong. She never deserves that rank.

Actualy JsArclight, the only show I've seen mentioned here is B5 which didn't get canceled, it ended...big difference. So I don't get your point.

Click on the link on the list of sci-fi shows that got shafted by Hollywood dolts wearing Armani suits:

http://www.firsttvdrama.com/neverf/neverf.php3

Some of the shows listed were also my favorites and it's no different than ST.

[CAG]

ST doesn't have to die.....unless B+B stay in charge. As long as there are relevant issues confronting mankind ST can thrive if it has good writers. For instance, given current events, think of all the stories that could simply be structured around the Prime Directive (should we interfere in other cultures, how do we do it, how do we deal with it afterwards, and how the rule developed). Loads of good dramatic material in there, especially if they could get writers who could think on their own and not fall back on traditional stand-bys for the series.

[Mr March]

Soooooooo basically what I am hearing is that everyone wants Star Trek to be more like all the other sci-fi shows that got cancelled?

I still say kill the bitch and bury it upside down so it doesn't come back as a zombie five years from now. That'll learn 'em.

Not all science fiction shows get cancelled. Babylon 5 ran it's entire five year arc on television and completed the story. Babylon 5 also did something Trek never could...it ended with the audience begging for more

[UN Spacy]

You know what I've always wanted to see (I think Capt. Rico would agree)? I'd like to see an animation team in Japan work their way into a Trek anime. I would KILL to see how they'd come up with their Starship battles. How sweet would that be? B)

[JsARCLIGHT]

Why does everyone keep calling on the dead spirit of Babylon 5... it lasted 5 seasons, so what? It's round about the ONLY Sci fi TV show other than Star Trek that didn't get cancelled by it's third season... wait, other than the new Star Treks as the original did get cancelled. And what's with the "leaves fans wanting more" thing? EVERY show that goes off the air leaves it's fans wanting more. I know people that are still pissed COP ROCK got the shaft. A lot of shows "write themselves out" rather than get cancelled all together. Look at Space: Above and Beyond. When their writers and producers found out their show was getting the axe they slaughtered everyone off in a "if you're pulling the plug then we'll see to it we never come back" fashion. Babylon 5 is not unique... so then... why did Babylon 5 supposedly "succeed"? Because it's creators where smart enough to know when they're show was not going to amount to anything more than a trek clone with a sparse fanbase they pulled the plug and chose to "write the show out" before their thin non-network backing ran out on them. What has Babylon 5 done lately? A bunch of sad made for TV movies that aired all of once (if at all) on Sci-Fi network. Pretty pitiful for such a "popular" series... If you want to talk "non-trek sci-fit TV" longevity, Babylon 5 is the weakest of examples. What about Stargate SG1? It's in it's fifth season now and still supposedly going strong. SG1 was going to get the axe but someone picked up the reigns and saw to it that the show soldiered on... SG1 runs on what, one cable channel now and is in syndication on two major networks afterhours? At it's height Babylon 5 was on UHF stations in select markets... and the last two seasons got dropped from a lot of those stations that carried it so they could run Hockey and Baseball games instead.

Sci Fi on TV is weak at best and it's only chances for market share come in syndication, like Star Trek found out. Here in the midwest, TNG put up better numbers running in late night syndication than it ever did first run on the network. If syndication had not exsisted the original Star Trek would have died and been buried long ago, along with Gilligan's Island, I Dream of Jeanie and Lost in Space.

Turn on the gas, let Trek slip under and then put the drano in the IV and let nature take it's course. <_<

I'm backing out of this thread because I am now feeling real anger towards Trek and that is unhealthy.

[CAG]

B5 was written as a 5 year story arc from the beginning. It was a novel with a chapter played out weekly, with a definate end in sight. What messed it up was when JMS had to rush the end b/c the 5th season got cancelled and he wanted to resolve the story. Then, when the 5th season got picked up it wound up being weaker because the pacing was thrown off.

[Mechwolf]

B5 also had/has a healthy run on Sci-Fi Channel. As others have pointed out, B5 was intended to be a 5 year story arc from the begining. If B5 was such a "trek clone" then why did Trek rip it off by making DS9?

The point is Trek is DEAD. It shouldn't be, but because of poor/lazy writers, that is what has happened. ST II & VI is what Trek as a whole should have & could have been. And it would have been if Trek producers & writers knew a damn thing about good story telling. The only good thing Trek has going for it now are the nice starship toys ArtAsylum has been releasing & the Bandai models. Oh well. I have Gundam, Macross, Babylon5, Farscape, & StarWars to entertain me.