Does anyone else feel like Minmay got kinda....

[Max Jenius]

I just got done showing a friend the SDF Macross series and the DYRL movie (after he watched M+... I'm training him good). Something that kinda always bothered me is how Minmay got jacked. Mostly in DYRL(go on a date with a guy you like->get abducted and experimented on by aliens->come back to find out he's w/ some other ho), but the series has her go off to start her career while getting abused by Kaifun and working for scraps.

Meanwhile, Misa just cruises up in her super-dimension fortress and snatches the idiotic Hikaru away. I mean... Misa is cool...but I've always liked Minmay better. Anyone else feel she got screwed in the bad way? I mean, I don't think that she was ever bitchy at all.

[the white drew carey]

Eh... Love is fickle. I don't think she got screwed, though.

[EXO]

Loves a bitch... Misa put out, Minmay didn't... go figure...

[Max Jenius]

Loves a bitch... Misa put out, Minmay didn't... go figure...

Minmay put out in the end, and esp. in the movie.

[Hurin]

Well, I wouldn't say Minmay had it any worse than anyone in a post holocaust world. Even if she was in a dysfunctional relationship with Kaifun, she was at least a minor celebrity (or the biggest celebrity in that f-ed up world). In the TV show, I don't think she has anyone to blame but herself for losing Hikaru to Misa. She took him for granted and was totally self-centered. Of course, Hikaru never really told her how he felt. . . but still.

In the movie, she is a lot more sympathetic. She really does just get her ass kicked (and face slapped!) throughout that movie.

H

[Sumdumgai]

Yeah, it seemed like Minmay got the short end of the stick.

Don't get me wrong, I like Misa and all, but I liked Minmay more. Minmay got shafted, but in the end maybe its better she didn't get Hikaru... She can go for someone less loser-ish and fickle.

[KingNor]

misa is so much cooler than minmay. misa paid her dues already. minmay has had everything handed to her, it'd do her good to have a loss. misa lost her boyfriend/fiancee what ever in the war already.

besides, it never seemed to matter to minmay that hikarus friends were dieing and such, she was always like "what about me, pay attention to me, op.. now i'm too buisy, call you in a month!"

[Nightbat]

Does anyone else feel like Minmay got kinda...., ..screwed in the series and movie?

We suspect Misa was, but Minmay?

where did you get that idea? What episode?

which scene? timeframe? C'mon Max, Details!

Well, Minmay was a lot more sympathetic in DYRL?

in the end you feel sorry for her (even after the "To hell with the others, let's get

the hell outta here" comment - my kind of girl!)

while Misa was consistent in both shows

so?

Minmay: 1

Misa: 2

Winner is... Misa

[Mr March]

Minmay is the typical, immature "popular girl" from high school. She has mostly survived/and or flourished off her looks. When that fails, Minmay finds herself extremely depressed, alone, and living in a van down by the river

Ahem, anyway my point is that her character was more an archetype and as such held true to what she was. She was ment to be tragic in a way since her character arc ended with the receiving a dose of reality in the form of a good slap and being forced to grow up. We don't really know much after that because it's not all that important to the story.

No doubt she moved onward in her career, married her manager, and ended up in rehab along side Whitney Houstan

[Agent ONE]

In the series, Minmay just missed the boat. She had years to have Hikaru all to herself but she screwed the pooch and didn't realize what was important in life... I don't want to go so far as to say she got what she deserves, because no one deserves a broken heart, but she was definately at fault.

In DYRL she got fuct big time. Max just authored the best Minmay DYRL summary I have ever read:

go on a date with a guy you like->get abducted and experimented on by aliens->come back to find out he's w/ some other ho

Misa was a dog in the series, and much better looking in DYRL, however in either scenario I would have gone with Minmay, she's just my kind of girl.

Good thread!

[J A Dare]

misa is so much cooler than minmay.

Why do I get the feeling you're biased?

Anyways, after watching FB2012 (the true ending to SDF), it doesn't seem so bad for Minmay. I'm sure she could pick any dude (except Hikaru, of course) on the Megaroad.

[bsu legato]

I'm with AgentONE and Max. If there's a sympathetic version of Minmay's story, it's the DYRL version. Plus, it's a lot easier to actually feel sorry for her in DYRL, since she's portrayed much more maturely.

[Beware of Blast]

One very clear difference between Misa and Minmay was Misa is quite stable with her career, Minmay is just starting off. It's true that Minmay kinda got screwed because throughout the show, she never want to piss anybody off in order to advance... and yet she neglects her relationship with Hikaru because he's such a pushover, she probably thought maybe she could come back later to continue with the duet, and he'd still be there - wrong choice.

Had Minmay been as mature in mind as Misa, things would have been ALOT different though.

If I had to pick between the two, I'd choose Minmay over Misa. It's because throughout the show, Minmay had endured alot of unneccesary mental abuse from her colleagues, the media and her friends, on top of doing her job well; while Misa had the luxury of focus when it comes to the job she's doing with very little distraction. Put Misa in Minmay's shoes and Misa'll be the one who looses Hikaru, as well as not being able to do a good job in show business and rising to the occasion when humanity needs her the most.

Edited May 17, 2004 by Beware of Blast

[Anubis]

In the tv series Minmay was kind of fickle there for a while, not really giving Hikaru a fair shake. Then she got Hikaru to bring Kaifun back to the ship (HUGE mistake). After SW1 she came to her senses, but it was a shame she had to deal with a controlling, verbally abusive Kaifun for those years. Misa had plenty of time to be established as the more secure choice, especially after she calmed down and started being friendly. Looking good in the apron and casual clothes helped Misa a fair bit too I'm sure.

In the movie, Minmay really did get jacked. She opened up nicely to Hikaru right away, and they likely would have developed a good relationship if they didn't get kidnapped and separated. Misa may not have had as much of a chance otherwise. Misa did need to calm down and learn to relax in the movie, which may not have come so easily if she didn't get stranded with Hikaru. It would have been too late though because Minmay would have had Hikaru locked.

Hell, even after being kidnapped, Minmay still was fixed on Hikaru, and had he and Misa not hooked up, Minmay would have snatched him back.

My picks:

TV - Misa

DYRL - Minmay

[ewilen]

Everyone's welcome to their opinion, but there are some clues in the TV show that we're not supposed to feel too sorry for Minmay. Such as the narrator asking rhetorically at one point, "What kind of girl is Lin Minmei?", and Roy giving Hikaru a little lecture about "girls like that". And of course there's the scene where she babbles giddily over the phone without picking up on the fact that Hikaru is under enormous emotional stress due the war and the loss of two of his closest friends. It's not to say that Minmay is a horrible person, but in a big way the point of her relationship with Hikaru is to provide an emotional foil for his development into a grown man. She may not mean to mess with his head and tempt him to give up his responsibilities (well, she does at one point); however, that's the effect she has on him.

At the same time, I think that, in a way, the plot doesn't want her to definitively hook up with anyone. This enhances the fantasy image of her as an idol--it allows everyone in the universe (plus the guys in the audience) to picture themselves with her.

I agree that FB2012 provides the best resolution--Hikaru's relationship with Minmay (to come on board the Megaroad) can almost be seen as a form of courtly love--the emotional fulfillment of romantic love, and an inspiration to noble deeds, yet without the physical element that would be both socially unacceptable and (obviously) destructive toward Hikaru & Misa's marriage.

Who knows what happened on the Megaroad after its departure? Aside from Hikaru, it's hard to imagine anyone who "deserves" Minmay--especially the grown up Minmay of FB2012. But on a ship of that size, there might well be someone for her. Since it's a fantasy, though, with an indefinite ending, we never have to give up the image of Minmay as the idol who belongs to everyone.

[Agent ONE]

Everyone's welcome to their opinion, but there are some clues in the TV show that we're not supposed to feel too sorry for Minmay. Such as the narrator asking rhetorically at one point, "What kind of girl is Lin Minmei?", and Roy giving Hikaru a little lecture about "girls like that". And of course there's the scene where she babbles giddily over the phone without picking up on the fact that Hikaru is under enormous emotional stress due the war and the loss of two of his closest friends. It's not to say that Minmay is a horrible person, but in a big way the point of her relationship with Hikaru is to provide an emotional foil for his development into a grown man. She may not mean to mess with his head and tempt him to give up his responsibilities (well, she does at one point); however, that's the effect she has on him.

At the same time, I think that, in a way, the plot doesn't want her to definitively hook up with anyone. This enhances the fantasy image of her as an idol--it allows everyone in the universe (plus the guys in the audience) to picture themselves with her.

I agree that FB2012 provides the best resolution--Hikaru's relationship with Minmay (to come on board the Megaroad) can almost be seen as a form of courtly love--the emotional fulfillment of romantic love, and an inspiration to noble deeds, yet without the physical element that would be both socially unacceptable and (obviously) destructive toward Hikaru & Misa's marriage.

Who knows what happened on the Megaroad after its departure? Aside from Hikaru, it's hard to imagine anyone who "deserves" Minmay--especially the grown up Minmay of FB2012. But on a ship of that size, there might well be someone for her. Since it's a fantasy, though, with an indefinite ending, we never have to give up the image of Minmay as the idol who belongs to everyone.

GREAT post!

[EXO]

That's what's great about the SDF Macross story. It wasn't about who deserved what and what the ideal ending should be. It came to the point where the war was over and the story of the lives it affected stopped right there. FB2012 was a great extra for the fans, but wholey unecessary.

[ewilen]

Thanks, A1. I forgot to mention that FB2012 also nicely shows that Hikaru and Misa were correct (I forget exactly who said it) at the end of the TV show, to say that Minmay would bounce back. She had a tough time, but she got over it.

[bsu legato]

...And then they flew into a big black hole. The end.

[Zentrandude]

...And then they flew into a big black hole. The end.

*plays tv comerical*

this what happens when you drink too much yoshinol and fold

[Blaine23]

I always thought of Misa/Minmay as basically story foils to show 2 different paths for Hikaru.

Misa - the military, proper, duty way of life

Minmay - impetous, fun, less responsibility type of life

It seems to me in Macross that both Hikaru and Minmay have to grow up in a hurry to survive the war and in doing so, Hikaru grows up first and finds himself needing someone who understands that - like Misa.

Minmay eventually gets to that point, but too late.

Ultimately I always thought of Minmay as the kind of girlfriend you had that it would've never probably worked out with, but you loved in that ridiculous youthful "first love" kinda way. As far as feeling sorry for her treatment in Macross, I never got the impression that she couldn't have anything she wanted, except for Hikaru - so I never felt that sorry for her.

DYRL, I think we can all agree, is much more sympathetic to Minmay.

[treatment]

Yeah. Minmay got jacked big time in DYRL.

[Godzilla]

Hey such as life. What can you do about it? Yes we can all agree she got the shaft but hey it should make her stronger. Or should it?

[Kin]

She don't mind being screwed... she got rescued alot

[Gideon Krieg]

Hmmm, interesting conversation.

Well I guess I do not get as "into" it as some people. As far as I know, Hiruhiko Mikimoto (who created Lin Minmay) did not want her to hook up with anyone. As he DID write much of the character interaction of the original TV series, it is no wonder why his characters did what he wanted.

With the approval of Kawamori of course.

I will not speculate into the emotions of characters in a TV show, nor do I think it a healthy practice. Its like discussing how Captain Picard felt when Tasha Yar died from the "Exon" tar monster. It is irrelevant to the story and shows that Trekkies/Trekkers are dwelling in that "World" way too much.

Psychiatrists call this schizophrenia. According to Noyes book of Abnormal Psychology, schizophrenia is the obsession with another reality or an individual's inability to cope with the reality that a fantasy is NOT reality and attempts to rationalize their obsession with the fantasy.

Many of us (yes I am guilty of being a Macross fanatic in other ways too ) should be careful how deep we dwell into discussions like this.

However, on the other hand, it does make interesting reading if you are a psychiatrist, heheheheheheheh.

[ewilen]

Hm. So I guess literature should come with a warning label as it's likely to induce schizophrenia. (I seem to recall Socrates saying somthing like that...)

Anyway, if Haruhiko Mikimoto did have something to do with the character interactions, it might make sense that he'd want Minmay to stay single. I've read elsewhere on this board that she's based on a singer which he had a crush on.

Is this another insight from that old anime magazine you mentioned in the thread about the Megaroad?

[Hurin]

              I will not speculate into the emotions of characters in a TV show, nor do I think it a healthy practice.  Its like discussing how Captain Picard felt when Tasha Yar died from the "Exon" tar monster.  It is irrelevant to the story and shows that Trekkies/Trekkers are dwelling in that "World" way too much.

              Psychiatrists call this schizophrenia.  According to Noyes book of Abnormal Psychology, schizophrenia is the obsession with another reality or an individual's inability to cope with the reality that a fantasy is NOT reality and attempts to rationalize their obsession with the fantasy.

                Many of us (yes I am guilty of being a Macross fanatic in other ways too  ) should be careful how deep we dwell into discussions like this.

Dude. . .LIGHTEN UP!

Other than that, not going to dignify it with a response. . .

[Sundown]

She had years to have Hikaru all to herself but she screwed the pooch and didn't realize what was important in life...

To drive your enemies before you, and to hear the lamentation of the Meltran?

-Al

[J A Dare]

Psychiatrists call this schizophrenia.

I smashed me G.S. up in the pissing rain...I took about twenty leapers at once, got a first class ticket to Brighton and set off to my land of dreams....

A tough guy, a helpless dancer.

A romantic, is it me for a moment?

A bloody lunatic, I'll even carry your bags.

A beggar, a hypocrite, love reign over me.

Schizophrenic? I'm Bleeding Quadrophenic.

[Gideon Krieg]

I will not speculate into the emotions of characters in a TV show, nor do I think it a healthy practice. Its like discussing how Captain Picard felt when Tasha Yar died from the "Exon" tar monster. It is irrelevant to the story and shows that Trekkies/Trekkers are dwelling in that "World" way too much.

Psychiatrists call this schizophrenia. According to Noyes book of Abnormal Psychology, schizophrenia is the obsession with another reality or an individual's inability to cope with the reality that a fantasy is NOT reality and attempts to rationalize their obsession with the fantasy.

Sorry

I'm just messing with you guys. Hell if you guys knew half of the Macross crap I have, (yes I have the tsukuda Minmay resin doll kit ) and how many hours of character discussion I have done with friends, you all would probably have me drawn and quartered for my last post.

I really actually enjoy this conversation. This thread just reminded me of the time two of my fellow airmen and I got caught by the duty Sergeant talking about what Minmay found so damn attractive about Lynn Kyle (not sure what the Japanese name is, her cousin in the dreaded Robotech).

This was in the USAF mind you, we were all Thermo Nuclear Weapon Specialists, needless to say we had to have a psychiatric exam the next day.

The shrink was trying to tell us we were all suffering from schizophrenia. Hehehehehehe, man, you should have seen his face when we explained what Macross was. Anime, the works, he was mortified. Normally they would not send an airman to the base shrink for that but, we were REALLY into the conversation. To the point of shouting, yelling, cussing, and bitching.

I personally think that there is no way Minway was stupid enough to hang with him. I realize she leaves him in the outside story, but their hitch up seems unlikely.

Did the writers shaft her? I think so. I wished that they would have linked her up with Hikaru. I mean after all the episodes he was whinning about her they should of just hitched them at the end of the series.

I liked the character Misa, she was Ok, a bit somber, but OK. As to her marriage to Hikaru. Well, hmmmm, did Robotech do it first or Macross? The reason I ask is I often wonder how much influence (if any) Robotech has had on Macross series that came out after Robotech. In the Sentinels video release (I believe it is 3 episodes) Misa (oh yah Lisa) and Hika....uh....Rick Hunter (uhg) get married.

Well sorry to anyone who got pissed off, next time I will try to word the post a little less formal (my mistake, me bad *kicks self in ass*).

[Agent ONE]

Hmmm, interesting conversation.

Well I guess I do not get as "into" it as some people. As far as I know, Hiruhiko Mikimoto (who created Lin Minmay) did not want her to hook up with anyone. As he DID write much of the character interaction of the original TV series, it is no wonder why his characters did what he wanted.

With the approval of Kawamori of course.

I will not speculate into the emotions of characters in a TV show, nor do I think it a healthy practice. Its like discussing how Captain Picard felt when Tasha Yar died from the "Exon" tar monster. It is irrelevant to the story and shows that Trekkies/Trekkers are dwelling in that "World" way too much.

Psychiatrists call this schizophrenia. According to Noyes book of Abnormal Psychology, schizophrenia is the obsession with another reality or an individual's inability to cope with the reality that a fantasy is NOT reality and attempts to rationalize their obsession with the fantasy.

Many of us (yes I am guilty of being a Macross fanatic in other ways too ) should be careful how deep we dwell into discussions like this.

However, on the other hand, it does make interesting reading if you are a psychiatrist, heheheheheheheh.

Well.

All of my Fraternity Brothers said I was insane, so maybe you are onto something. They, however were speaking more to the public exposing sessions, the throwing apliances off of the roof of the Fraternity house, the constant casual sex with fast women, the screaming at the floor whilst praying to CROM, photographing of my genitals so I could drop pictures in Sororities mail boxes, the ability to crack a walnut with my asscheeks, and the branding on my shoulder... But maybe they were talking about my analytical reflection of Macross.

[Gideon Krieg]

Well.

All of my Fraternity Brothers said I was insane, so maybe you are onto something. They, however were speaking more to the public exposing sessions, the throwing apliances off of the roof of the Fraternity house, the constant casual sex with fast women, the screaming at the floor whilst praying to CROM, photographing of my genitals so I could drop pictures in Sororities mail boxes, the ability to crack a walnut with my asscheeks, and the branding on my shoulder... But maybe they were talking about my analytical reflection of Macross.

SHHHWEET

agentOne, you are a man to be admired.

[JValk]

she got dumped pretty bad. PRETTY BAD. i even felt bad for the reba west minmei.

*feels the schizo gnat a-bitin'*

Edited May 18, 2004 by JValk

[Effect]

Not so much in the series in my opinion, things did end bad for her. In DYRL on the other had she really was run over. I really felt sorry for her.

[ewilen]

As to her marriage to Hikaru. Well, hmmmm, did Robotech do it first or Macross? The reason I ask is I often wonder how much influence (if any) Robotech has had on Macross series that came out after Robotech. In the Sentinels video release (I believe it is 3 episodes) Misa (oh yah Lisa) and Hika....uh....Rick Hunter (uhg) get married.

Flashback 2012 came out in 1987. It didn't show the marriage but it was strongly implied there. The marriage may have been mentioned earlier (certainly later) in official timelines or novels.

Don't know when Sentinels was filmed.