Troy

[EXO]

That sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it too. The movie is set in our "real" world with no Gods or demi-Gods, yet we're to believe Achilles is a semi-divine being with magical blade-deflecting powers? You can't have it both ways, I'm afraid. I think the movie did a good job of showing how a "real" Achilles (if we're to believe he was in fact a real person, historically) would come to be known as a legendary, untouchable fighter.

Actually, it's more like not having my cake and eating it too...

I think movie studios should be more like Burger King for me. Where I drive up a drive-thru window and I tell them how it's gonna be...

[bsu legato]

Actually, it's more like not having my cake and eating it too...

I think movie studios should be more like Burger King for me. Where I drive up a drive-thru window and I tell them how it's gonna be...

Imagine a movie theater that served cake. Now that would be cool.

[That NOS Guy]

Imagine a movie theater that served cake. Now that would be cool.

Yes, yes it would be.

[Jemstone]

followed closely by the "let's sneak in the period piece, slow paced, coma-inducing, better than Nytol Oscar films that no one but the academy and a few arthouse women will go see" period from October to New Years.

Hey! I resemble that remark! Some of those "arthouse" films like "Girl With A Pearl Earing" were are actually good and not overrated like "The Hours".

Plus any movie that will star Paris Hilton IMHO has already comitted a crime against humanity and does not deserve any screen time.

Huh? Did I miss something?

[Jemstone]

Anyway, it sounds like people are better off renting Ben Hur, Spartacus, or even Clash of the Titans...

Another sad part is that the cheesey Helen of Troy or whatever it was called mini series that aired on the USA network this past Spring is also far better than this film and truer to the source book.

[Nightbat]

Another sad part is that the cheesey Helen of Troy or whatever it was called mini series that aired on the USA network this past Spring is also far better than this film and truer to the source book.

Hmmm, I recently saw that

not that I have any intention of seeing "Troy The Hypemotion Picture"

but that would be just another reason not to

-

If I wanted a popcorn movie I'd watch Bad boys II in a theater

...and I did,... since I won a ticket for the premiere

[Guvava]

Imagine a movie theater that served cake. Now that would be cool.

Yes, yes it would be.

Yeah, our local theatre serves sandwiches, pizza, beer and cake. And Spaghetti when they show the old Italian Westerns.

[EXO]

Hey! I resemble that remark! Some of those "arthouse" films like "Girl With A Pearl Earing" were are actually good and not overrated like "The Hours".

The Girl With A Pearl Earring was shot by shot the most amazing looking film I've seen in a long time. It's funny but when that hack Michael Bay does the painted vista look it's kinda distracting to the story. But does it's magic so subtly, it works in almost an unnoticeable way.

[justvinnie]

Imagine a movie theater that served cake. Now that would be cool.

Yes, yes it would be.

Yeah, our local theatre serves sandwiches, pizza, beer and cake. And Spaghetti when they show the old Italian Westerns.

Alamo Drafthouse?

vinnie

[Agent ONE]

-why does everyone speak with a british-like accent?

When you cast brits, and you tell ALL the actors NOT to fake any kind of accent, then some have Brit accents.

[one_klump]

Ok, I went and saw the movie, and well, it was ok. Not great, not awesome, but not terrible either. The trailers hyped the movie to epic proportions, and the script killed those expectations. I think Brad Pitt could have come out shining, but he was held back. Ever see Fight Club? no THAT was the Brad Pitt acting I liked. This 'Troy' movie should not be seen while you are expecting another 'Clash of the Titans' or 'Oddessey', but simply as a summer action flick.

My rating: almost Ho-Hum, but the Trojan King brings out the real acting in the last 30 min of the movie.

[ewilen]

Oh yeah. Forgot it had O'Toole. Maybe I'll watch it on DVD.

If you want to see him in a different swords and sandals epic, I highly recommend the TV miniseries Masada. (Or if you want to see him in a really crappy pornfest, there's Caligula...)

[Agent ONE]

-and while I can understand omitting the gods for the sake of realism, they omitted the part about what made Achilles Achilles.  The fact that no blade could harm any part of him except for his heels.  He was just an overy agile fella that could dodge any steel.

That sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it too. The movie is set in our "real" world with no Gods or demi-Gods, yet we're to believe Achilles is a semi-divine being with magical blade-deflecting powers? You can't have it both ways, I'm afraid. I think the movie did a good job of showing how a "real" Achilles (if we're to believe he was in fact a real person, historically) would come to be known as a legendary, untouchable fighter.

Brad Pitt and Eric Bana were awesome actors

But they BOTH pale in comparison to Sean Bean! Hollywood needs to give him more work.

My views exactly.

[Isamu Atreides 86]

Ok, I went and saw the movie, and well, it was ok. Not great, not awesome, but not terrible either. The trailers hyped the movie to epic proportions, and the script killed those expectations. I think Brad Pitt could have come out shining, but he was held back. Ever see Fight Club? no THAT was the Brad Pitt acting I liked. This 'Troy' movie should not be seen while you are expecting another 'Clash of the Titans' or 'Oddessey', but simply as a summer action flick.

My rating: almost Ho-Hum, but the Trojan King brings out the real acting in the last 30 min of the movie.

I agree. Fight Club and Snatch were great movies with Pitt....

[Mr March]

I certainly want to see this film, but I understand if it's not a great film like the hype has tried to sell. I do like Wolfgang Peterson's films, but I admit, he's no Ridley Scott. Still, I'm in the mood to go to a film. I haven't been to the theatre in a long while and I'd love to watch a good film, even if it falls flat a few times.

[Agent ONE]

...

-Why is Ajax Thor?

-Why are the Gods completely thrown out of this picture?

-Why isn't Hector drug around the walls?

-Most importantly, who would see this movie outside of the eye candy?

Anyone who thinks this movie is good has the taste level of a four year-old on speed. Wait, scratch that, even the damn kid would know this movie is bad. Anyone who likes this movie as a piece of art has no taste, I mean the have anti-taste, a trait that sucks other peoples taste into a black hole of taste.

-NOS

"But Brad Pitt is so hott, you're just jealous."

There were many other larger issues that someone who knows the story well would have caught. Such as:

- Achilles died at the wrong time, like an entire YEAR too late

- The entire siege or Troy lasted 4 years Achilles died on the third

- Ajax died at the wrong time, like on the first day instead of after the first year

- There were 2 female prisoners taken from Troy, not just one

- Agamemnon is actually killed by HIS wife back in Greece after his return

- There were Greek Orthodox Priests in the court of Troy... This is BC guys, as in before Jesus

My GF caught this stuff as she is from Cyprus, so she blasted it as we were walking out of the theatre.

I stopped her though. I told her to keep in mind that this movie was a large budget movie, IE to make money it had to be a mass-market film. How lame would this movie have been if Achilles died 3/4 of the way through? How about if there was a black screen in the middle of the movie saying "and 2 years pass?" I'll tell you... It would have been weird and or lame, at least to the general public. I actually think the movie was decent, not at good as Gladiator, but totally enjoyable for a MASS MARKET epic film. After I explained this to her she more easily accepted the reworking of the story, and did acknowledge that the acting was good by everyone.

Now if you guys want accuracy, the fukin thing shouldn't have even been in English. Compare it to The Passion of The Christ... Tight to the story, in the proper dialect or Aramaic, but WAY to much for most people to handle. If Troy had been done with this way the producers wouldn’t have been able to raise the money to produce the film, because the studios would know it wouldn’t make money.

There are a few dorks in this thread who, in an attempt to showcase their vast knowledge or try to somehow forcefully impress all of us by how intellectual they are, have really shown us they can cut and pasted some crap from a movie review. REAL intelligent people do their own analysis.

[Agent ONE]

As for the "where are the Gods," and "I thought Achilles was invincible not an acrobat," comments, I think they pulled it off perfectly... If they had thrown the Gods in there it would have been so fukin cheesy... They made it so a casual participant in the war would wonder... "Did the Gods intervene or not?.. I am not sure" You guys know, like in real life.

If there had been any obvious devine intervention it would have been so kornball.

[GobotFool]

But they BOTH pale in comparison to Sean Bean! Hollywood needs to give him more work.

Agreed, poor guy only gets bit parts... Hell even in LOTR's while that was a pretty big role, he got cast as the least likable charactor who died in the 1st movie.

[EXO]

My GF caught this stuff as she is from Cyprus, so she blasted it as we were walking out of the theatre.

I stopped her though. I told her to keep in mind that this movie was a large budget movie, IE to make money it had to be a mass-market film. How lame would this movie have been if Achilles died 3/4 of the way through? How about if there was a black screen in the middle of the movie saying "and 2 years pass?" I'll tell you... It would have been weird and or lame, at least to the general public. I actually think the movie was decent, not at good as Gladiator, but totally enjoyable for a MASS MARKET epic film. After I explained this to her she more easily accepted the reworking of the story, and did acknowledge that the acting was good by everyone.

That's the problem with the film. Instead of making it an ensemble film they decided to make it a formulaic vehicle film tailored for Brad Pitt. What's wrong with a major character dying before the story is over? Anyone remember Roy Focker? They could have given Oddyseus a bigger part as he was a major part of the stroy also. He could have carried the film the rest of the way. Hector was a big part of the film also. And his death served as a great point in the film. The problem whith this film being a vehicle also made the script a paint by number toga drama, tailored to mimic Galdiator's formula. As I said before, it's a fine production, but the script played out as a remake formulated to get money from Gladiator's audience, of which I'm a guilty part of...

[F360°]

I check out the movie Yesterday and it wasn't all that bad. But Paris should really die,, he need to be killed off.

And that part about Achilles's heel is pretty neat, he got shot in the heel then get fatal shots in the body. But he remove all the arrow near his chest so when the Greeks came all they see is the arrow stuck to his heel. Since they believed that no blade can harm Achilles at the time, seeing him dead with a arrow stuck to his heel must be easy to assume his heel was his only weakless.

[Oihan]

Wow...so many negative comments on this movie. I was looking forward to Van Helsing (only to fall asleep towards the end) and Troy. Now after having seen Van Helsing, and seeing all of the negative comments on Troy...I'm afraid to go see another movie in fear of wasting more money.

[bsu legato]

But they BOTH pale in comparison to Sean Bean! Hollywood needs to give him more work. 

Agreed, poor guy only gets bit parts... Hell even in LOTR's while that was a pretty big role, he got cast as the least likable charactor who died in the 1st movie.

Can I get a "Hell Yeah?!"

I caught one of his old Sharpe movies on the weekend, and I was sitting there saying "F*ck! This guy needs a starring role, dammit!"

[EXO]

But they BOTH pale in comparison to Sean Bean! Hollywood needs to give him more work. 

Agreed, poor guy only gets bit parts... Hell even in LOTR's while that was a pretty big role, he got cast as the least likable charactor who died in the 1st movie.

He had the one of the best performance though. His speech during the council was great and was even better in the extended version.

He was underused in an even worse way in this movie.

[GobotFool]

But they BOTH pale in comparison to Sean Bean! Hollywood needs to give him more work. 

Agreed, poor guy only gets bit parts... Hell even in LOTR's while that was a pretty big role, he got cast as the least likable charactor who died in the 1st movie.

He had the one of the best performance though. His speech during the council was great and was even better in the extended version.

He was underused in an even worse way in this movie.

Oh I agree, he played a powerful role in the movie, and the extended versions of LOTR's do him more justice, it's just ashame that some of his best scenes will not be viewed by a larger audience as probably only the hardcore fans are gonna be viewing the extended versions.

[Agent ONE]

My GF caught this stuff as she is from Cyprus, so she blasted it as we were walking out of the theatre.

I stopped her though.  I told her to keep in mind that this movie was a large budget movie, IE to make money it had to be a mass-market film.  How lame would this movie have been if Achilles died 3/4 of the way through?  How about if there was a black screen in the middle of the movie saying "and 2 years pass?"  I'll tell you... It would have been weird and or lame, at least to the general public.  I actually think the movie was decent, not at good as Gladiator, but totally enjoyable for a MASS MARKET epic film.  After I explained this to her she more easily accepted the reworking of the story, and did acknowledge that the acting was good by everyone.

That's the problem with the film. Instead of making it an ensemble film they decided to make it a formulaic vehicle film tailored for Brad Pitt. What's wrong with a major character dying before the story is over? Anyone remember Roy Focker? They could have given Oddyseus a bigger part...

That would have been interesting AND more true to the story, but the movie would have been too short to allow for a change of main character... Yes Focker was a bad ass and he was blown away 1/2 way through in both DYRL and SDF-M, but he wasn't the main character... Imagine if in the SDF-M episode "Goodbye Girl" Hikaru died and Max took over as lead role. That is a better analogy.

[CaptRico]

I thought TROY was a good movie.

[EXO]

My GF caught this stuff as she is from Cyprus, so she blasted it as we were walking out of the theatre.

I stopped her though.  I told her to keep in mind that this movie was a large budget movie, IE to make money it had to be a mass-market film.  How lame would this movie have been if Achilles died 3/4 of the way through?  How about if there was a black screen in the middle of the movie saying "and 2 years pass?"  I'll tell you... It would have been weird and or lame, at least to the general public.  I actually think the movie was decent, not at good as Gladiator, but totally enjoyable for a MASS MARKET epic film.  After I explained this to her she more easily accepted the reworking of the story, and did acknowledge that the acting was good by everyone.

That's the problem with the film. Instead of making it an ensemble film they decided to make it a formulaic vehicle film tailored for Brad Pitt. What's wrong with a major character dying before the story is over? Anyone remember Roy Focker? They could have given Oddyseus a bigger part...

That would have been interesting AND more true to the story, but the movie would have been too short to allow for a change of main character... Yes Focker was a bad ass and he was blown away 1/2 way through in both DYRL and SDF-M, but he wasn't the main character... Imagine if in the SDF-M episode "Goodbye Girl" Hikaru died and Max took over as lead role. That is a better analogy.

That's my point though. If Hikaru would have been killed in the middle of SDF I would have been blown away by the innovative storytelling.

The characters should serve the story in a movie like this not the other way around. It was more of an impact when Hitchcock killed the main star in Psycho. Janet leigh was the only big name in that movie at the time.

[bsu legato]

That's my point though. If Hikaru would have been killed in the middle of SDF I would have been blown away by the innovative storytelling.

The difference being that Hikaru is, for the sake of argument, the central character in Macross. We follow the events of the show through him. Had he died 1/2 way through, then the writers would have had to "promote" one of the supporting cast to the leading role. In Troy, however, there's several leads. And one of them (Hector) does die 2/3 of the way through, and he's arguably the hero of the entire film. So there!

[EXO]

That's my point though.  If Hikaru would have been killed in the middle of SDF I would have been blown away by the innovative storytelling.

The difference being that Hikaru is, for the sake of argument, the central character in Macross. We follow the events of the show through him. Had he died 1/2 way through, then the writers would have had to "promote" one of the supporting cast to the leading role. In Troy, however, there's several leads. And one of them (Hector) does die 2/3 of the way through, and he's arguably the hero of the entire film. So there!

I'm not arguing the use of central characters. I have no complaint about Hikaru living at all. AgentOne brought up the fact that Achilles dies long before the end of the Trojan War was near and I'm supporting the fact that there's no problem telling the story in that way, except for the fact that Hollywood chose to tailor the story to suit Brad Pitt's exposure.

[Agent ONE]

For all you so called 'smart guys' who are picking on the film's accuracy to the orig. story, keep in mind one huge change the directors made in this movie:

In the movie Patroclus was Achilles' cousin, however in the story it was actually his gay lover. Would you guys have enjoyed the movie more if Brad Pit were laying naked with that dude?

Like I said, the changes the directors made in this film were good.

[Agent ONE]

My amazingly wonderful and breath-takingly gorgeous Girlfriend has informed me that I have mis-quoted her in this thread. Therefore:

- The siege on Troy actually lasted 10 years

- Ajax didn’t die after the first year specifically, but soon after the beginning

- Achilles died closer to the end but not specifically 3/4 of the way through

[That NOS Guy]

Now that you mention it AgentONE.....

SAILORMOON COMPLEX!

-NOS

Who hears it from the woman every other night about how DIC sucks.

[ewilen]

A1, I think you (or your girlfriend) is mistaken about Ajax. In the myth (the version I'm familiar with) he commits suicide because of events following the death of Achilles. Achilles dies in the 10th year of the war.

Also, minor point, calling Patroclus Achilles' gay lover may not be entirely accurate. Their relationship in the Iliad isn't spelled out in that kind of detail and it may well be that the explicitly homosexual interpretation was added by later Greeks, centuries after the poem was written.

Finally, about this character switch idea. I hate to belabor the point, but the Iliad isn't the complete and authoritative version of the Trojan War. The myth of the Trojan War preceded the poem and is far more extensive. It has been used as the backdrop for many different pieces of literature, including Sophocles' Ajax, Virgil's Aeneid (in parts), and Shakespeare's Troilus and Cressida. Achilles is the main character of the Iliad, but not of the overall myth. In making this film the filmmakers obviously needed to figure out whose story they wanted to tell. I haven't seen the film, so I don't know exactly what they did, but they certainly could have made an ensemble movie. The problem, I imagine, is figuring out how to how to do that while retaining the dramatic high points handed down by literature. If you want to focus on Achilles and tell his story "accurately", then you're creating a dramatic framework in which all the stuff that happens after his death becomes unnecessary. (The Iliad doesn't even get that far--Achilles' death is only foreshadowed.) It'd be like carrying Apocalypse Now on to the fall of Saigon.

In theory, I suppose they could have made a trilogy, with different characters and different themes emphasized in each picture, but I doubt such a project would have been funded.

[EXO]

In theory, I suppose they could have made a trilogy, with different characters and different themes emphasized in each picture, but I doubt such a project would have been funded.

That would have been interesting...

Part one would have been about Hector, from the point that he had to choose which goddess he should give the golden apple to to the point he steals Helen. (chick flick obviously)

Part 2 - Achilles

Part 3 - Oddyseus and at this point they switch to vehicle movie mode because it focuses on one character. It can also serve as a prequel to the Oddyssey movie.

Someone get that hobbit guy on the phone!!!

[Ladic]

Part one would have been about Hector, from the point that he had to choose which goddess he should give the golden apple to to the point he steals Helen. (chick flick obviously)

you mean Paris?