Troy

[That NOS Guy]

I want my seven bucks back. After seeing "Van Helsing" I was under the impression movies had reached their absolute low and could only improve. God, was I wrong.

God, in his infinate wisdom has chosen to cascade forth a plague of bad movies on the world, probably in return for bad hymes, but I have had the misfortune of seeing the mentioned bad films.

They raped the Illiad with a broomstick. A BROOMSTICK LINED WITH CHAINSAW BLADES AND PINEAPLLES!

If you're going to make a movie based on the Illiad make the movie like the Illiad, not this utter bullshit. I didn't think it was possible but they even got Greek tactics wrong!

Paris, whose my hatred of was already immense before the movie only grows now. HE SUPPOSED TO DIE YOU F*CKS! What is this, the "we can't kill Orlando Bloom" law?

Most upsetting above all else was the beyond words bad job they did with Achilles. I like Bad Pitt, I think he's a good actor, he however will die for this. My expectations for this move fell faster then a prom dress as I watched it.

Some big questions were as follows:

-Why is Ajax Thor?

-Why are the Gods completely thrown out of this picture?

-Why isn't Hector drug around the walls?

-Most importantly, who would see this movie outside of the eye candy?

Anyone who thinks this movie is good has the taste level of a four year-old on speed. Wait, scratch that, even the damn kid would know this movie is bad. Anyone who likes this movie as a piece of art has no taste, I mean the have anti-taste, a trait that sucks other peoples taste into a black hole of taste.

-NOS

"But Brad Pitt is so hott, you're just jealous."

[areaseven]

I was expecting this to be a Gladiator ripoff. Guess I'll save my $7.50 for Shrek 2 instead.

[JsARCLIGHT]

It's a summer movie. Nothing but eye candy, shallow plotline, shootem' up, less thinkin' and more killin' utter crap comes out between late April and Labor Day in the US... followed closely by the "let's sneak in the period piece, slow paced, coma-inducing, better than Nytol Oscar films that no one but the academy and a few arthouse women will go see" period from October to New Years.

Plus any movie that will star Paris Hilton IMHO has already comitted a crime against humanity and does not deserve any screen time.

[UN Spacy]

I'm going to see it in an hour or so......I'll edit my post when I get back home.

Here's hoping it'll be as good as Gladiator.

[Greyryder]

Hold on. Wait a minute. Thor? As in Norse god of thunder Thor? Second strongest* of all the Norse gods Thor? Why would there be a Thor in something based on Greek mythology?

I wasn't interested in tis move to begin with. Now I know to stear clear of it.

*Thor's son Magni was stronger than Thor, but not as well known.

[bsu legato]

I thought it was good. Not a perfect film, but definitely worth seeing if you like old-stlye epics. And for the record, I thought it works perfectly well as a story without the Olympian gods and their bickering.

[Max Jenius]

I didn't think it was possible but they even got Greek tactics wrong!

Really? Homer himself gets them wrong in the Illiad....

[Angel's Fury]

I was expecting this to be a Gladiator ripoff. Guess I'll save my $7.50 for Shrek 2 instead.

No! Better yet, save up for the Spiderman 2 movie.

[Ladic]

I enjoyed Troy alot, very good movie.

[Ladic]

Hold on. Wait a minute. Thor? As in Norse god of thunder Thor? Second strongest* of all the Norse gods Thor? Why would there be a Thor in something based on Greek mythology?

I wasn't interested in tis move to begin with. Now I know to stear clear of it.

*Thor's son Magni was stronger than Thor, but not as well known.

there is no THOR in the movie, just that Ajax uses a huge hammer.

[GreenGuy42]

-Why isn't Hector drug around the walls?

I agree otherwise, not to mention Agamemnon's death...

Anyhow, I THINK it was implied that Hector's body WAS drug around the walls. They just didn't want to show that particularly gruesome scene..

Oh, and didn't Ajax survive the battle and go insane when Achilles' armor was given to Odyssus?

Edit: And Paris.. yes, I was hoping with all the edits they'd go ahead and kill him off before he wussed out and grabbed his brother's leg.

I hate Paris.

Edited May 16, 2004 by GreenGuy42

[Coota0]

Plus any movie that will star Paris Hilton IMHO has already comitted a crime against humanity and does not deserve any screen time.

For this I just have a big Huh?

[Opus]

I refuse to go see it just because it's a movie about Greeks without any Greek actors.

[Godzilla]

I heard it was bad. Movies are just going to be bad... no new ideas and rehashing old ideas and classics only to destroy them.

[Myriad]

90210 set a long, long time ago.....................

Who was hotter the men or the women.....

I won't buy the DVD. The fights were great but the story seemed jumbled with too many romances.

[ewilen]

I didn't think it was possible but they even got Greek tactics wrong!

Really? Homer himself gets them wrong in the Illiad....

?? The Iliad is about events which "occurred" in the late Mycenaean period or early Dark Ages of Greece. IIRC the description of tactics in the Iliad is reasonably plausible given what we know about the period (which isn't much). If there's a major error in the poem, the only one I can think of is the use of iron swords--they should be bronze.

Maybe you can elaborate, Max.

As for the film, I guess I'm not going to see it.

[Greyryder]

there is no THOR in the movie, just that Ajax uses a huge hammer.

Ahh, okay. Thanks for the clarification. I'm easily confused.

[Max Jenius]

I didn't think it was possible but they even got Greek tactics wrong!

Really? Homer himself gets them wrong in the Illiad....

?? The Iliad is about events which "occurred" in the late Mycenaean period or early Dark Ages of Greece. IIRC the description of tactics in the Iliad is reasonably plausible given what we know about the period (which isn't much). If there's a major error in the poem, the only one I can think of is the use of iron swords--they should be bronze.

Maybe you can elaborate, Max.

As for the film, I guess I'm not going to see it.

Well off the top of my head, we know that the greeks didn't ride their chariots into battle, park them, then fight... :-/

In any case, Homer was a storyteller, not a tactician.

[MrDisco]

a few things that ran though my head while I was watching it:

-why does everyone speak with a british-like accent?

-this is such a chick flick. i mean c'mon at least show a few boobs.

-take away the musical score and this would be a pretty boring movie

-yes i get the point. we will remember Achilles' name long after he is dead

-this movie is too long

-is that gum on my armrest?

-hey that chick in the aisle below me is kinda cute...

all in all, a summer movie that was very shallow and aside from 1 or 2 fight scenes is not one which is dvd purchase worthy.

[bob joe mac]

I too must say that that movie was a POS I mean if you had not read or known anything about the illiad then you would just sit there and be like WTF throughout the entire movie. And what was the hey lets make Oddysius the main character for the last 5 minutes when he wasn't even in the movie until half way through and hardly even have any lines I mean basically besides his little epilouge speech had had like 5 lines.

Another problem didn't FAR more people die in the illiad like Helen, Paris, and tons of others. But by far the worst part was their attempt to keep characters in but just have them there so the audience would be like ok..... know WHO THE HELL WAS THAT GUY SUPOSSED TO BE!!!

But hell we got to see Bloom and Pitt half naked in like 7 seperate scenes

[bob joe mac]

double post.

Edited May 16, 2004 by bob joe mac

[JsARCLIGHT]

Plus any movie that will star Paris Hilton IMHO has already comitted a crime against humanity and does not deserve any screen time.

For this I just have a big Huh?

Oops, I was operating under bad intelligence... hey it happens to everyone, right?

Ssome people told me she was in this movie playing the part of Helen, they even had pre-made jokes like "the face that launched a thousand ships... in the other direction" and the like. I just now discovered they were wrong and it is some Diane Kruger person I've never heard of.

Oh well, movie still looks a little too stupid for me. I was put to sleep reading the Iliad in school and the movie looks to be just as boring.

[drifand]

2 good friends failed to persuade me to watch Troy. "It's just a popcorn movie!" No thanks, I'll just go home and read the new issue of Exaxxion instead.

[ewilen]

Well off the top of my head, we know that the greeks didn't ride their chariots into battle, park them, then fight... :-/

Point taken, although the evidence for the way the Myceneans used chariots (as opposed to the Egyptians and Hittites) is extremely limited.

Also, I think I got the iron swords bit wrong. (It's been a long time since I read the Iliad.)

[ewilen]

Iliad boring...probably true...not many people are going to read it unless it's for a class. But a huge chunk of tedium can be eliminated by skipping the chapter that lists all the ships. If you do decide to tackle it, I recommend the Lattimore translation--it captures the feel of the original poetry.

And to clear up a possible misconception: I don't know about this movie, but the Iliad doesn't tell the complete story of the Trojan War. The poem only covers a short episode 10 (?) years into the war, and only one of the really famous characters dies. Other deaths, and the fall of Troy, are foreshadowed but don't appear "on screen".

Slate has an article about the problem of casting Helen. Personally, I think they should have tried harder to get Laetitia Casta for a truly beautiful Mediterranean look. The woman they got only rates a fraction of a millihelen.

[GobotFool]

It's the Aeneid that finishes up the Trojan War methings. It starts with the destruction of Troy, and then chronicles the adventures of the last surviving Trojans, lead by Aeneias whose decendants found Rome.

Edited May 16, 2004 by GobotFool

[GobotFool]

double post

Edited May 16, 2004 by GobotFool

[UN Spacy]

Alright....I just got back from a two and a half hour MEH fest.

They just HAD to give Paris a bow and arrows..... .

Such a beautiful cast.....it just sucks when the guys are prettier than the girls (Helen was a HOTTIE though).

How long did it really take for Troy to fall? From the movie it seemed like it fell within two weeks.

I'd give it a 7.5 out of 10.

[ewilen]

Yes, the Aeneid covers the very end of the Trojan War (though it's told as a flashback of the sack of Troy), but there's a great deal of the war that isn't in the Iliad, the Odyssey, or the Aeneid.

According to myth, the war lasted 10 years.

[EXO]

Slate has an article about the problem of casting Helen. Personally, I think they should have tried harder to get Laetitia Casta for a truly beautiful Mediterranean look. The woman they got only rates a fraction of a millihelen.

Great point Ewilen... the girl that plays Helen is hot, but not the stunning beauty you would launch a thousand ships for. I kept asking myself who would I choose as Helen, but the thought escaped me. You have it spot on my friend!

About the accent. Not only did the greeks have British accents, they were hardcore scottish Braveheart accents. It was really distracting.

Overall it was a paint by number Gladiator type movie. If you haven't seen Gladiator and know nothing about the Iliad, then go see it. There's a chance you might enjoy it. But something with this type production cost and pretends to be serious should try really hard to get it right.

Brad Pitt and Eric Bana were awesome actors, unfortunately the script was useless to them.

They took out very important parts of the Iliad. I'm only complaining because the credits itself said it was inspired by it. Here's the stuff that bugged me:

-Paris lives

-Menelaus dies

-No Cassandra (who is very important to the story.)

-and while I can understand omitting the gods for the sake of realism, they omitted the part about what made Achilles Achilles. The fact that no blade could harm any part of him except for his heels. He was just an overy agile fella that could dodge any steel.

-Odysseus wasn't that smart (the good thing is there won't be an Oddysey sequel, since his character wasn't that important.)

-No one ever says "Come back victorious, or come back on your shield", this was the coolest thing I heard while reading Greek myth as a kid.

The sets and the look was great but the fact that nothing felt like it was a greek story was truly a tragedy.

Not really a bad film in it's own right, but a real awful Trojan War movie.

Edited May 16, 2004 by >EXO<

[Dat Pinche Haro!]

I've honestly stopped taking all these epic movies and maybe even movies in gerneral seriously...i have yet to see a movie that yearns for me to go see it...(besides the imports ) i dunno... i guess this is why i stopped going to the movies? i only go now if someone forces me to see or if i just wanna get out of the damn house

[ewilen]

Slate has an article about the problem of casting Helen. Personally, I think they should have tried harder to get Laetitia Casta for a truly beautiful Mediterranean look. The woman they got only rates a fraction of a millihelen.

Great point Ewilen... the girl that plays Helen is hot, but not the stunning beauty you would launch a thousand ships for. I kept asking myself who would I choose as Helen, but the thought escaped me. You have it spot on my friend!

Slate mentions that they called her office, but they couldn't get through her staff for some reason. She's done a little acting--played a character in a live-action Asterix movie--but I don't remember if she was any good. On the other hand, if they were truly adapting the Iliad, she wouldn't have to do much other than stand around and look pretty, which she's extremely good at.

They took out very important parts of the Iliad.  I'm only complaining because the credits itself said it was inspired by it. Here's the stuff that bugged me:

-Paris lives

-Menelaus dies

-No Cassandra (who is very important to the story.)

-and while I can understand omitting the gods for the sake of realism, they omitted the part about what made Achilles Achilles.  The fact that no blade could harm any part of him except for his heels.  He was just an overy agile fella that could dodge any steel.

-Odysseus wasn't that smart (the good thing is there won't be an Oddysey sequel, since his character wasn't that important.)

-No one ever says "Come back victorious, or come back on your shield", this was the coolest thing I heard while reading Greek myth as a kid.

If I recall correctly, Paris survived the Iliad, the poem doesn't mention Achilles' vulnerability (and I don't think it overtly describes him as being invulnerable anywhere on his body), and the "come back victorious or on your shield" quote is something that Spartan mothers told their sons, not from the Iliad. Paris dying and the Achilles heel are part of Greek myth, just not part of the Iliad. But I don't know where they get Menelaus dying. He definitely made it back home; in fact Telemachus (Odysseus's son) visits him--and Helen--many years later at the beginning of the Odyssey.

Anyway, it sounds like people are better off renting Ben Hur, Spartacus, or even Clash of the Titans...

Edited May 16, 2004 by ewilen

[Mechmaster]

Aren't all movies like that these days? I watched Waterloo on the telly yesterday, from 1970, and it occured to me that if it was made these days the climax would probably have been a light saber duel between Napoleon and Wellington with lots of kung fu and Matrix style wire-work. Movies now are all flashy effects and no one cares about historical accuracy or being true to the source.

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

I for one liked the way they left out the Gods and Achilles being invulnerable. Basically view the movie as how a real world Troy legend would have happened before 2 millenia of poets soup up the characters to invulnerable legends.

[bsu legato]

-and while I can understand omitting the gods for the sake of realism, they omitted the part about what made Achilles Achilles. The fact that no blade could harm any part of him except for his heels. He was just an overy agile fella that could dodge any steel.

That sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it too. The movie is set in our "real" world with no Gods or demi-Gods, yet we're to believe Achilles is a semi-divine being with magical blade-deflecting powers? You can't have it both ways, I'm afraid. I think the movie did a good job of showing how a "real" Achilles (if we're to believe he was in fact a real person, historically) would come to be known as a legendary, untouchable fighter.

Brad Pitt and Eric Bana were awesome actors

But they BOTH pale in comparison to Sean Bean! Hollywood needs to give him more work.