Planetes

[hevangel2]

I just finished watching Planetes.

It's the most realistic sci-fi anime ever made,

more realistic than WoH.

It has a good story, excellent graphics and sound.

Best of all, the ending actually wrap up nicely and tied all the knots.

I havn't have such a satisfying anime experience for a long time.

highly recommanded.

[MSW]

It's the most realistic sci-fi anime ever made,

more realistic than WoH.

It may get the science mostly right (smokeing cigs onboard a pressurized spacecraft not withstanding)...but the central premise of a human team of space going garbage collectors, ain't exactly realistic...space is big, really, really big...and although the potential problem of space junk is plauseable (it's been greatly overexagerated however) , the prospect of useing a human crew to clean it up isn't...it's far cheaper and much, much more efficent for orbital robots to do that sort of thing

[GobotFool]

Yeah, I am loving this series tons. It's always good to see a noble effort at hard-sci-fi from the mainstream entertainment industry. Kinda reminds me of something Kim Stanely Robenson, author of Red Mars, would write.

To demand absolute realism from any sci-fi show is a high order. Most science fiction takes a real world premise, exaggerates it, and then creates a fiction around that exaggeration. While planetes has gaps, most of even the best hard sci-fi has a gap or two. I remember reading Red Mars with a group of friends and we were all in awe of the scientific accuracy of the novel (and a little bored with it), but one of my friends who was an economist was laughing his ass off at the, as he called it "truly naive and foolishly set up economic model in the book." So even the best of hard sci-fi has its holes.

Also for me, Planetes is at it's core an anime about the human spirit in the face of exploration, and how it deals with things once considered extraordinary becoming mundane. Also, in general, the whole space junk bit is an allogory for how humanity, where ever it goes, it trashes the environment.

All and all, I'll say it is a noble if not flawed effort at realistic sci-fi, as MSW makes good points about its glaring holes.

Hevangel, What's WoH?

Edit: Spelling

Edited May 13, 2004 by GobotFool

[Skippy438]

Wings of Honeamise? That's most likely horribly misspelled.

[MSW]

I wasn't trying to put the show down by my earlyer comments, not at all...just trying to point out that it's not as "realistic" as it may seem..and useing "realisam" as some sort of measure of quality in sci-fi is more then a bit foolish...

[GobotFool]

I wasn't trying to put the show down by my earlyer comments, not at all...just trying to point out that it's not as "realistic" as it may seem..and useing "realisam" as some sort of measure of quality in sci-fi is more then a bit foolish...

True, true. Look at Dune, a book many people consider to be the finest sci-fi novel ever written, but does it attempt to stay realistic? Nope, it actually embraces its fantastical elements and runs with them, doing a really good job in the context of the novel.

[Knight26]

Planetes is great hard sci-fi, and while it would be more feasible economically and man power wise to use machines to retrieve space junk its doesn't make for good storytelling. SPace junk is problem faced by astronauts today, though not to the extent that the show has. Infact pretty much every space flight gets assaulted by space debris and the international space station is routinely pegged, making a nice ringing sound throughout the station, freaks the astronauts out. I think one of the most interesting things that Planetes shows in regard to space travel is the effect that commerical space travel can/will have on space flight. Once space is opened up to commericial interests you will see the number and extent of missions grow rapidly, right now with NASA and the Russians having a monopoly on space travel very little is actually being done. Were space more opened to commercial development tommorrow we would have missions on the moon and mars ready to go in five years due to corporate competetion. ANd, the safety would go up, just like in early the days of flight. Burt Rutan wrote a very eloquent report about this just prior to the Columbia accident. I know I may get flamed for saying this but it is true, NASA no longer has the vision and drive it once did to go and keep on going strong, and most of that is due to the leadership who is afraid of taking risks and of political pressure. At the same time NASA is able to keep its grip on space development by underselling every single commerical competitor that pokes its head out, but it does this by operating at a loss.

[wolfx]

Love the show. Just started on it. Its an interesting change to get hard sci-fi. The physics is realistic. The helmet monitor is detailed and its axis display spins along with the character. I love it...except for that crap insurance episode which displays main girl's "stupidly virtuous" attitude and the idiocy of the president and vice president of "half section". Can't stand them, even for comic relief.

[JELEINEN]

I'm not sure how it can be more realistic than Honneamise when that film didn't posit any technology that we hadn't already surpassed when the film was made. The only real part of Honneamise that's speculative is the setting itself.

That said, I really do like Planetes and agree that the attempt at hard SF is much appreciated. I disagree though with the assumption that collecting space debris will be more economical if automated. I'm not saying that it is or isn't, but the assumption itself is presumptious and in no way affects how realistic the show is one way or the other.

[ewilen]

The cost of keeping humans alive in space pretty much guarantees that an automated system for collecting space debris would be cheaper.

BTW, France and China are also players in the space game, Knight26. And although we might see privately-run space tourism in the form of suborbital flights for the extremely rich in the near future, I don't know how or why a private company would go to the moon or Mars. What would be the business rationale?

I do think that WoH is pretty realistic in terms of science. But in terms of how a space program would actually be done...I don't think so. IIRC, they basically go from zero rocket technology to a manned orbital (?) mission without doing any of the intermediate testing and stepping stones like V-1, Sputnik, dogs/chimps in space, etc. Nevertheless, I love that movie.

[areaseven]

How many more Planetes threads do we need?

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=5795

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=4507

[GobotFool]

How many more Planetes threads do we need?

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=5795

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=4507

As many as possible, because it is simply the greatest anime that people are not watching

[Lindem Herz]

IIRC, they basically go from zero rocket technology to a manned orbital (?) mission without doing any of the intermediate testing and stepping stones like V-1, Sputnik, dogs/chimps in space, etc. Nevertheless, I love that movie.

Actually they did. There is a sequence that shows Lhadatt and his gang getting scared by filmed launch tests failures (some of which look like primitive versions of the rocket used at the end, as far as I remember).

Plus, I think it was told once or twice that satelites were used for communications, but that might be jsut me extrapolating.

Man, I gotta see it again. Ever since I made the step into DVD media, my old tape collection, including WOH, has been MIA

[JELEINEN]

The cost of keeping humans alive in space pretty much guarantees that an automated system for collecting space debris would be cheaper.

It guarentees nothing. It does make a likely possibility, but there are other factors that could play in to why they use humans. Cost isn't everything.

BTW, France and China are also players in the space game, Knight26. And although we might see privately-run space tourism in the form of suborbital flights for the extremely rich in the near future, I don't know how or why a private company would go to the moon or Mars. What would be the business rationale?

Heh. Define player...

Anyway, the reason there isn't much in the way of private space exploration is that international treaty prohibits it. While Mars or the Moon aren't likely targets right now, there are a lot of aerospace companies that would love to be able to launch their own satelites or look into micro gravity manufacturing. Boeing was even willing to risk big fines for its involvement with Sea Launch.

I do think that WoH is pretty realistic in terms of science. But in terms of how a space program would actually be done...I don't think so. IIRC, they basically go from zero rocket technology to a manned orbital (?) mission without doing any of the intermediate testing and stepping stones like V-1, Sputnik, dogs/chimps in space, etc. Nevertheless, I love that movie.

As stated above, they had done rocket launches before and they had even managed to get something in orbit, albeit somewhat by accident. And even then, why does someone else's technological history have to mirror our own developement?

[hevangel2]

WoH is realistic in the sense of pure science, but it's way off in the world view.

The scenario posed by Planetes is totally realistic. The debris collection is just the lead for the main plot of the story, which is the conflict in space development between first and third world and the space terrorist fight for equality between nations. The science part of Planetes is good, but what make me totally fell for the show is the depth of the social issue it brought up in space exploration. It follow classic sci-fi tradition by asking lots of "what if" questions. It's not an average so-call sci-fi show which is merely an advanture drama or fantasy story loaded up hi-tech props.

In response to ewilen, even Planetes is set at year 2075, collecting space debris may still be too much of a work for a robot. You gota see the show to understand what I say. Let me give you an example from the show. In the first eposide, the debris team have to attach a rocket to a space debris to push the debris back to earth in order for it to burn up in the atomsphere. I don't think a robot can handle this job in merely 70 years.

The background of Planetes is not just space tourism, rather it potrait a world in which earth had runs out of natural resources. The only place to turn for more resources is space. Mining in moon and mars is the major driving force of space exploration.

[MSW]

In response to ewilen, even Planetes is set at year 2075, collecting space debris may still be too much of a work for a robot. You gota see the show to understand what I say. Let me give you an example from the show. In the first eposide, the debris team have to attach a rocket to a space debris to push the debris back to earth in order for it to burn up in the atomsphere. I don't think a robot can handle this job in merely 70 years.

70 years ago today, we hadn't even developed the first microchip, haden't even broken the sound barrier, hadn't even developed rocket engines or H-bombs, or even TV...1934 was merely 70 years ago, and look how far we have come sense then!

Robots developed to clear space garbage don't have to be big complex Gundam like machines anyway, they just need to have manuvering systems and possably a pair of arms (one might do just fine)...so why would such a robot have to attach a rocket to some space junk, when it could just use it's own propulsion systems, and if need be just ride the junk down into a firey re-entry? ... they would'nt need to be very intelligent, and could be easily disposed of and replaced as needed.

Besides, we arn't very far away from haveing space elevators...which could dramaticly cut down on the clutter we are still throwing up there in the first place

The background of Planetes is not just space tourism, rather it potrait a world in which earth had runs out of natural resources. The only place to turn for more resources is space. Mining in moon and mars is the major driving force of space exploration.

So it makes more sense to put humans into space, keep them alive, inorder to burn up the space junk? why not collect it for recycleing? Why launch a big rocket to mars, leavieng behind junk over earth, only to reach mars, pick up some raw materials, drag them back to Earth...where they will get used in the construction of more rockets to repeat the process?

Anyway...

This obviously has nothing to do with the show, where science as always, is in the service of the story...and a cool story it is

Edited May 13, 2004 by MSW

[Mislovrit]

It guarentees nothing.  It does make a likely possibility, but there are other factors that could play in to why they use humans.  Cost isn't everything.

Given the hazards of collecting space junk, it is not practical, safe nor is it economical to use humans for the job from a western First World standpoint.

Heh.  Define player...

iirc anybody who can send a manned or unmanned rocket to space on their own. Edited May 13, 2004 by Mislovrit

[ewilen]

Lindem Herz, thanks for refreshing my memory.

Jeleinen, here is one page listing various space programs: http://www.fas.org/spp/guide/index.html

It's a bit out of date but it does indicate that as of 1998, China had conducted dozens of successful launches. The European Space Agency has conducted hundreds. I neglected to mention India's progress (detailed here) as well as that of Japan and possibly others.

Edit: Mislovrit--please check the attribution on your quotes.

Edited May 13, 2004 by ewilen

[JELEINEN]

70 years ago today, we hadn't even developed the first microchip, haden't even broken the sound barrier, hadn't even developed rocket engines or H-bombs, or even TV...1934 was merely 70 years ago, and look how far we have come sense then!

Seventy years ago they were expecting us to have flying cars and be living on the moon by 2000. Speculating on the future is just that: speculating. We can make educated guesses. It's not too hard to build a social/economic/technological model that would explain humans being used for debris collection. Robotic collection is a perfectly logical idea, but there can be reasons as to why they don't ranging from simply lacking the technology in that area to make it efficient to a social taboo. The point here being that using humans does not make the show any less hard SF.

Besides, we arn't very far away from haveing space elevators...which could dramaticly cut down on the clutter we are still throwing up there in the first place

Technologically maybe, but I don't think politically, at least not with how things stand now.

[JELEINEN]

Jeleinen, here is one page listing various space programs: http://www.fas.org/spp/guide/index.html

It's a bit out of date but it does indicate that as of 1998, China had conducted dozens of successful launches. The European Space Agency has conducted hundreds. I neglected to mention India's progress (detailed here) as well as that of Japan and possibly others.

I was making a joke. My dislike of emoticons prevented this from getting across. Excepting commercial satelite launches, there really isn't much of a "space game" going on right now. Even our own Mars missions aren't really much more than a really expensive hobby on a federal scale.

[uminoken]

Any word on the show being picked up in the US? Would be nice change from all the copycat animes Also I really want the dvds

[GobotFool]

Any word on the show being picked up in the US?  Would be nice change from all the copycat animes Also I really want the dvds

Same, most shows I'm not willing to shell out for, but this is definitly one I want to have an official copy of in my collection.

Oh and for those interested http://pam.main.jp/jpg/event/shs43/shs43_086.jpg

mini-model of the Toybox

Edited May 14, 2004 by GobotFool

[JELEINEN]

I think this one is a shoe-in for licensing. Especially considering that the manga is already out in the US.

[uminoken]

Any word on the show being picked up in the US?  Would be nice change from all the copycat animes Also I really want the dvds

Same, most shows I'm not willing to shell out for, but this is definitly one I want to have an official copy of in my collection.

Oh and for those interested http://pam.main.jp/jpg/event/shs43/shs43_086.jpg

mini-model of the Toybox

Link's not workin

[GobotFool]

Any word on the show being picked up in the US?  Would be nice change from all the copycat animes Also I really want the dvds

Same, most shows I'm not willing to shell out for, but this is definitly one I want to have an official copy of in my collection.

Oh and for those interested http://pam.main.jp/jpg/event/shs43/shs43_086.jpg

mini-model of the Toybox

Link's not workin

Here, not much to see, just a rough build up.

[wolfx]

I think Gigart (Hachimaki's sensei) has the same seiyuu as Roy Fokker.

[GobotFool]

I think this one is a shoe-in for licensing. Especially considering that the manga is already out in the US.

How is the manga? Does it go into what happens during and after the Jupitor mission?

[Gui]

Someone knows a web page about this anime? Thanks in advance

[wolfx]

Finished the show. LOVED IT!! The beginning 1-6 was kinda boring though but after that, it was too cool ! I loved it so much. The drama. The characters. The plot progression. The human emotion. And most of all....uchuu (space).

SPOILER QUESTION

At the ending scenes, they practically showed what happened to all the side characters but left out Nono. What happened to Nono and Hakim? Did Hakim get captured or did I miss something here?

[GobotFool]

Finished the show. LOVED IT!! The beginning 1-6 was kinda boring though but after that, it was too cool ! I loved it so much. The drama. The characters. The plot progression. The human emotion. And most of all....uchuu (space).

SPOILER QUESTION

At the ending scenes, they practically showed what happened to all the side characters but left out Nono. What happened to Nono and Hakim? Did Hakim get captured or did I miss something here?

Hakim gets the sudden realization of how small he and his cause are compared to the rest of the cosmos, a shattering revelation for all who have had it. It's kind of left up in the air if this had any effect on his future goals. Nono (the lunarian right?) I suppose just lives out her life loving the moon. Such a life goes on kinda ending... I loved that part about the final episode, how it showed both the good and bad elements of the universe persisting.

[wolfx]

Finished the show. LOVED IT!! The beginning 1-6 was kinda boring though but after that, it was too cool ! I loved it so much. The drama. The characters. The plot progression. The human emotion. And most of all....uchuu (space).

SPOILER QUESTION

At the ending scenes, they practically showed what happened to all the side characters but left out Nono. What happened to Nono and Hakim? Did Hakim get captured or did I miss something here?

Hakim gets the sudden realization of how small he and his cause are compared to the rest of the cosmos, a shattering revelation for all who have had it. It's kind of left up in the air if this had any effect on his future goals. Nono (the lunarian right?) I suppose just lives out her life loving the moon. Such a life goes on kinda ending... I loved that part about the final episode, how it showed both the good and bad elements of the universe persisting.

I mean they nver showed what happened to them at the ending credits like how they showed everybody else. The last we see of them were on the moon's surface...and Hakim walks away muttering "But I still...." as if he wants to continue whatever it was he was gonna do. (Bomb the moon city or something)

[Hikaru Ichijou]

I've read the first two Tokyopop manga volumes. How far does the TV series cover? I saw the first few episodes, and it seemed to skip the first chunk of the manga.

[JELEINEN]

I've read the first two Tokyopop manga volumes. How far does the TV series cover? I saw the first few episodes, and it seemed to skip the first chunk of the manga.

It doesn't skip it, it just does things in a slightly different order.