New Gundam FIX and ZEONOGRAPHY on the way...

[wolfx]

Good news folks!! The FIX #0013 aka DEEP STRIKER is being reissued due to popular demand and scheduled to reach next month!! I've already placed a preorder on this cool motha. Its gonna cost about US100 or so.

For those who don't know what it is....

[Anubis]

It's actually not a bad idea to have natural evolutions of some of Seed's suits incorporated into the lineup.  It's only been two years anyway. 

...

With quality Artwork, the Impulse doesn't look half bad at all.

Natural evolution is a design philosophy that Okawara does not subscribe to, and so is not present in SEED D. What we have here is merely a recycling of parts. There is no evolution to be found. Evolution can be found in Gundam Wing, where Katoki took the Tallgeese, stripped it down into the Leo, and then evolved it while keeping common features. Evolution can be found in Gundam 0083, where Katoki took the GM Type C, created the Powered GM, and then incorporated Powered GM aesthetics into the GM Custom--then took the GM Custom plus the Gundam Stamen, with a bit of the Gundam mk.II, and molded it into the GM Quel. In contrast, all that Okawara did here was to recycle the same design aesthetics and parts he's been using for 12 years, mixed in with ripoffs of other designers (for example, Gaia Gundam's four-legged transformation is merely a rehash of the Death Army from G). Fire this man already.

It looks like Bandai is trying to recreate Zeta, and it will not work. Period.

Thank God for the existence of Studio Reckless.

So the Impulse is not an evolution of the Strike?

Freeedom and Justice not derived from the stolen 4 gundams?

The Cgue not a natural evolution of the lessons learned from the Ginn?

Even the Genesis got the benefit of Blitz's Mirage cloaking system.

Seed gets about every design evolution the other shows get.

Gaia Gundam's four-legged transformation is merely a rehash of the Death Army from G

I would very much like to see a picture of this. The death army did not transform. There were variants within the Death Army, but no 4 legged one that I can remember.

Edited July 19, 2004 by Anubis

[zeo-mare]

yea there was actually a four legged death army version there is a toy of it , and i am pretty certain that it did appear in the tv series.

[Anubis]

OK, but that still doesn't mean the Gaia is going to be a rip off of that.

Wait for LINEART then judge new mobile suits. Some people are really jumping the gun here. It's a bit early to bash designs you haven't seen yet, and it's impossible to say Seed D is going to be a total rip off of Zeta because no knows the plot yet. Hell, there was no way to judge how the first Seed was going to end. We speculated all the way up to the last episode.

[zeo-mare]

i agree with you on that Anubis, never said the gaia was a rip btw. but i look forward to seeing the new designs and the plot i hope it turns out good. maybe we will also get lucky and they will release some nice Master Grade kits early on in conjunction with the new series.

[Anubis]

i agree with you on that Anubis, never said the gaia was a rip btw. but i look forward to seeing the new designs and the plot i hope it turns out good. maybe we will also get lucky and they will release some nice Master Grade kits early on in conjunction with the new series.

don't worry, I didn't mean you, but the guy above who was already complaning about Seed D.

[ChristopherB]

I'm really excited about the Deep Striker.

The scalpers on eBay are going to be pissed, but this is great news for Gundam fans.

Looks like I'll finally be able to get one.

[zeo-mare]

no problem anubis, as for the deepstriker grab it quick there is no telling how many they will make, and i see them selling out and the value going up again on these real quick,

[Anubis]

I do have to say that Deep Striker is pretty cool. Not getting one, but it is an interesting design nonetheless.

[zeo-mare]

yea i already got mine it is a awesome piece, i hope they make a Xeku zwei for the zeonography series to go against it.

[Anubis]

yea i already got mine it is a awesome piece, i hope they make a Xeku zwei  for the zeonography series to go against it.

I would like a Neue Ziel if any Mobile Armor. The HGM is nice and all, but a fix/zeonography of that would rock. That's about the only mobile armor I really liked.

Edited July 19, 2004 by Anubis

[Terpfen]

So the Impulse is not an evolution of the Strike?

Freeedom and Justice not derived from the stolen 4 gundams?

The Cgue not a natural evolution of the lessons learned from the Ginn?

Even the Genesis got the benefit of Blitz's Mirage cloaking system.

Seed gets about every design evolution the other shows get.

Correct on the first four counts.

Impulse is not an evolution of the Strike, because the Strike is not a ZAFT suit. ZAFT did not appropriate the Strike plans in any way, shape, or form. Impulse is a new MS with Freedom's features in an attempt to show a design evolution, but Strike's features because Okawara decided Strike is the basic "first half of the series good guy" mecha for the SEED universe, and so incorporated it into the Impulse. This is about as silly as wondering why US jet fighters don't incorporate designs from Russian jets.

Freedom and Justice are not derived from the 4 stolen Gundams, despite what the show may say. There's no similarity between the 5 initial Gundams, let alone the Freedom and Justice. Okawara couldn't stand to make similar parts on the Freedom and Justice, two brother designs. In either case, Justice is derived from the Dinn, and the Freedom is derived from some unnamed source--it sure as heck isn't the Strike or the 4 stolen Gundams. My bet is the Gundam XX, but that's just me.

CGUE and GINN were created at about the same time in the SEED universe, IMO; there was no lesson to be learned from the GINN. The CGUE is simply a commander's MS that bears some proportional similarities to the GINN. Would you like to say that the Goohn and Dinn are evolutions of the GINN? You'd be just as wrong.

Genesis is not an elaboration or continuation of the Blitz Gundam. It may have appropriated technology, but the MiG-29 is not an appropriation of a Cessna just because it has wings.

Why don't you mention how the Meteor is simply an evolution of Katoki's GP03? This is the most obvious ripoff in the entire show, IMO.

Or how about the Dinn conning stuff off the Death Birdie and the Gundam Heaven's Sword?

I would very much like to see a picture of this.  The death army did not transform.  There were variants within the Death Army, but no 4 legged one that I can remember.

MAHQ lists it as the Death Beast. In any case, the Death Whatever was able to fold its legs up and attach itself to an add-on pack, which it could eject and then unfold its four legs to cross complex terrain. But that wasn't my point; the point is the Gaia Gundam transforms into something that looks awfully damn similar.

[Anubis]

So the Impulse is not an evolution of the Strike?

Freeedom and Justice not derived from the stolen 4 gundams?

The Cgue not a natural evolution of the lessons learned from the Ginn?

Even the Genesis got the benefit of Blitz's Mirage cloaking system.

Seed gets about every design evolution the other shows get.

Correct on the first four counts.

Impulse is not an evolution of the Strike, because the Strike is not a ZAFT suit. ZAFT did not appropriate the Strike plans in any way, shape, or form. Impulse is a new MS with Freedom's features in an attempt to show a design evolution, but Strike's features because Okawara decided Strike is the basic "first half of the series good guy" mecha for the SEED universe, and so incorporated it into the Impulse. This is about as silly as wondering why US jet fighters don't incorporate designs from Russian jets.

Freedom and Justice are not derived from the 4 stolen Gundams, despite what the show may say. There's no similarity between the 5 initial Gundams, let alone the Freedom and Justice. Okawara couldn't stand to make similar parts on the Freedom and Justice, two brother designs. In either case, Justice is derived from the Dinn, and the Freedom is derived from some unnamed source--it sure as heck isn't the Strike or the 4 stolen Gundams. My bet is the Gundam XX, but that's just me.

CGUE and GINN were created at about the same time in the SEED universe, IMO; there was no lesson to be learned from the GINN. The CGUE is simply a commander's MS that bears some proportional similarities to the GINN. Would you like to say that the Goohn and Dinn are evolutions of the GINN? You'd be just as wrong.

Genesis is not an elaboration or continuation of the Blitz Gundam. It may have appropriated technology, but the MiG-29 is not an appropriation of a Cessna just because it has wings.

Why don't you mention how the Meteor is simply an evolution of Katoki's GP03? This is the most obvious ripoff in the entire show, IMO.

Or how about the Dinn conning stuff off the Death Birdie and the Gundam Heaven's Sword?

I would very much like to see a picture of this.  The death army did not transform.  There were variants within the Death Army, but no 4 legged one that I can remember.

MAHQ lists it as the Death Beast. In any case, the Death Whatever was able to fold its legs up and attach itself to an add-on pack, which it could eject and then unfold its four legs to cross complex terrain. But that wasn't my point; the point is the Gaia Gundam transforms into something that looks awfully damn similar.

The Impulse was obviouly inspired by the Strike's base unit + specialized equipment design concept, with whatever refinements Zaft cooked up for their version.

It's not just the "design looks like an update to this design" philosphy, it's the technologies involved. Phase Shift and other design traits from the dissected GAT series making their way into the Freedom and Justice, with weapons appropriate to the nuclear power system.

The Ginn is to the Cgue what the Zaku is to the Gelgoog.

This is about as silly as wondering why US jet fighters don't incorporate designs from Russian jets.

They've incoroporated a lot of our stuff into their stuff in the past. Look at their space shuttle.

Zaft saw elements they liked in the GAT series, and some of those ideas tricked into their own concoctions. If there was no GAT inspiration in the Freeedom, Justice, or Providence, they would have had the same features on a traditional Zaft cyclops type mobile suit frame instead of the Gundam type frame.

Sure the Meteor is a similar concept to the GP03, but why not? The GP03 was not a new concept to attach a mecha to a heavy armor for enhanced firepower. The Meteors were also more beam reliant than the GP03 which was predominantly all missle + the big beam cannon/sabers. Still different designs. By the rip-off argument you would leave people to believe that the GP03 can be the only armor of that concept type, or any transforming Gundam after the Zeta is instantly a rip-off of the Zeta.

And I'm sorry but the Dinn is not a rip off of the Heaven's sword. The Dinn didn't transform and hack at suits with claws. The Dinn was a Ginn with flight mode wings. A similar idea in a way maybe, but the wings don't look like that on the Dinn.

You also said exactly what I meant about the Genesis. They used the appropriated Mirage system to conceal the genesis. Made good use on tech obtained from the stolen 4 suits even on applications outside suit design.

I do agree about some XX infuence on the Freedom though on the shoulder cannons. One could easily argue though how many ways can you model shoulder cannons?

Also, we still dont know what the Gaia Gundam looks like. Could be Aegis like, could be a stylized BuCue, it could look like a transformer. Only way to tell is to wait a month or two. Unless there is new lineart that hasn't made its way into this board yet.

Edited July 19, 2004 by Anubis

[Stamen0083]

It's not just the "design looks like an update to this design" philosphy, it's the technologies involved.  Phase Shift and other design traits from the dissected GAT series making their way into the Freedom and Justice, with weapons appropriate to the nuclear power system.

It's easy to claim that it's about the technology involved when trying to defend why one design looks like another.

However, no one said anything about technologies involved here. Terpfen was talking about aesthetics.

The Ginn is to the Cgue what the Zaku is to the Gelgoog.

If the Gelgoog was a more ridiculous looking Zaku, then you'd be right. However, it is not.

If, in fact, the CGUE is supposed to be more advanced than the Ginn, yet it carries the exact same integrated equipment is rather coincidental, don't you think?

Zaft saw elements they liked in the GAT series, and some of those ideas tricked into their own concoctions.  If there was no GAT inspiration in the Freeedom, Justice, or Providence, they would have had the same features on a traditional Zaft cyclops type mobile suit frame instead of the Gundam type frame.

Please. Show me an American fighter plane that can easily be mistaken for a MiG, and I'll believe you. As is, this is just silly.

Sure the Meteor is a similar concept to the GP03, but why not?  The GP03 was not a new concept to attach a mecha to a heavy armor for enhanced firepower.  The Meteors were also more beam reliant than the GP03 which was predominantly all missle + the big beam cannon/sabers.

Meteor:

- Two beam cannon that can turn into beam sabers.

- Docked Mobile SUIT.

GP03D:

- One giant beam cannon with a pair of beam sabers.

- Docked Mobile SUIT.

A little too close for comfort. Yet the Meteor cannot pull a GP03D in the sheer coolness department.

Still different designs.  By the rip-off argument you would leave people to believe that the GP03 can be the only armor of that concept type, or any transforming Gundam after the Zeta is instantly a rip-off of the Zeta.

Well. if a Gundam doesn't transform into a giant block, it transform into a fighter of some sort. If not, it splits up and transforms into a fighter of some sort. Another coincidence?

The Dinn was a Ginn with flight mode wings.  A similar idea in a way maybe, but the wings don't look like that on the Dinn.

http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/seed/amf-101-flight.jpg

Yeah, right.

I do agree about some XX infuence on the Freedom though on the shoulder cannons.  One could easily argue though how many ways can you model shoulder cannons?

Several. The Guncannon comes to mind.

Edited July 19, 2004 by Stamen0083

[zeo-mare]

is it me? or is this thread becoming hostile

[Stamen0083]

is it me? or is this thread becoming hostile

It's just you. We all are having a civilized discussion, aren't we? ;-)

[Jolly Rogers]

There's no similarity between the 5 initial Gundams, let alone the Freedom and Justice.

You must have missed last Saturday's episode, when the ZAFT report stated, in no uncertain terms, that the initial Gundams were all variants based off the Duel Gundam.

[Anubis]

Calamity got the Guncannon-style shoulder cannons.

What my main point was that there is evolution amond Seed's designs. Ginns augmented with newer Cgues and Dinns, and BuCues a step up from the older ground pounder aft was using. Zaft's n-jammer canceller trio being derived in part from tech gleaned off of the 4 stolen Gundam series. Stuff like that.

I'm not trying to get into a this design ripped off this design argument. I'm sorry if I sounds that way.

Complaining about the Meteor looking too much like the GP03 is kinda pointless to me.

With as many designs as Gundam has encompassed over it's 25 year run, there are several designs that are bound to have similar stuff to previous ones by this point. Sometimes as a homage to a classic design, others to make something new. But complaining becasue one has a similar wing, or "it's a Zeta Ripoff": I mean, come on already. People bemoan it as if there was no more creativity involved here.

What's worse is there is are a few people bemoaning Seed D's designs now. We have seen only a couple pictures of the Impulse, 2 of them basic lineart, and only one or two with real artwork (which does look not too bad on the website poster image).

I know I probably said a couple silly things, I do that on occasion, but declaring Seed D a direct Zeta ripoff when there is only infetesimal scraps of info on it (and no pics of ANY other new mecha) is beyond silly.

Now, anyone read anything on what's next after this xeneography round with Ramba Ral's Zaku I/II?

[Terpfen]

Also, we still dont know what the Gaia Gundam looks like.  Could be Aegis like, could be a stylized BuCue, it could look like a transformer.  Only way to tell is to wait a month or two.  Unless there is new lineart that hasn't made its way into this board yet.

Mecha design is a visual medium as much as it is a technological medium. Freedom and Justice had the Phase Shift system, but nothing else. One similarity does not a continuity make. This applies to the Strike/Impulse design as well.

The Ginn is to the Cgue what the Zaku is to the Gelgoog.

No. The GINN is to GuAIZ what the Zaku is to the Gelgoog.

They've incoroporated a lot of our stuff into their stuff in the past.  Look at their space shuttle.

Yeah, that's called technological espionage, not design continuity.

Zaft saw elements they liked in the GAT series, and some of those ideas tricked into their own concoctions.  If there was no GAT inspiration in the Freeedom, Justice, or Providence, they would have had the same features on a traditional Zaft cyclops type mobile suit frame instead of the Gundam type frame.

Don't know if you realize this or not, but all Gundams share the same general aesthetics. This is what makes a Gundam a Gundam in this long-running series. Gundams have faces and not monoeyes. Gundams have V-fins. Gundams are usually prototypes in some way. That's why the GM is called a GM, not a Gundam. That's why your argument is flawed.

Sure the Meteor is a similar concept to the GP03, but why not?  The GP03 was not a new concept to attach a mecha to a heavy armor for enhanced firepower.  The Meteors were also more beam reliant than the GP03 which was predominantly all missle + the big beam cannon/sabers.  Still different designs.  By the rip-off argument you would leave people to believe that the GP03 can be the only armor of that concept type, or any transforming Gundam after the Zeta is instantly a rip-off of the Zeta.

You've got a weird sense of continuity. The GP03, designed in 1991, is an extention of the basic idea Katoki set forth in 1988 with the Deep Striker. In Gundam chronology, the Deep Striker is just a smaller-scale GP03.

Now, the idea that all transforming suits after the Zeta are Zeta ripoffs is false for three reasons: one, you're the only one arguing that technology is the most important aspect when considering design continuity. Two, there were transforming suits in existence before the Zeta Gundam (Asshimar and Methuss are two that I can remember off the top of my head). Three, Zeta itself transforms using a technology created by the other side. Now, if you want to couple design continuity in terms of the Zeta, then the Zeta Plus line is a nice example of what should be considered true design continuity.

And I'm sorry but the Dinn is not a rip off of the Heaven's sword.  The Dinn didn't transform and hack at suits with claws. The Dinn was a Ginn with flight mode wings.  A similar idea in a way maybe, but the wings don't look like that on the Dinn.

The Dinn was not a GINN with wings. Go back and look at the thing. The Dinn has a standing mode where its wings are folded up reminiscent of the Heaven's Sword. When the Dinn is flying, it is reminiscent of the Heaven's Sword. It's the same thing with ZAFT aesthetics, and I take it as every bit as unseriously as I take the Heaven's Sword, because no army in the world is going to field something that looks like the Dinn.

You also said exactly what I meant about the Genesis.  They used the appropriated Mirage system to conceal the genesis.  Made good use on tech obtained from the stolen 4 suits even on applications outside suit design.

The Genesis is not a descendent of the Blitz Gundam. There is no relation between the two, cloaking technology or no cloaking technology.

I do agree about some XX infuence on the Freedom though on the shoulder cannons.  One could easily argue though how many ways can you model shoulder cannons?

Freedom doesn't have shoulder cannons. Its cannons are stuffed between two wings, which kind of screws with what I like to term aerodynamics, thus further discrediting Freedom as a design to be taken seriously... well, that and the guns acting as skirt armor. Way to go, Okawara.

What worries me about this argument is that you need to have two mobile suits be nearly clones of each other, and both designed by the same guy, before you'll admit to one being a ripoff of the other. This is going nowhere.

Also, we still dont know what the Gaia Gundam looks like.  Could be Aegis like, could be a stylized BuCue, it could look like a transformer.  Only way to tell is to wait a month or two.  Unless there is new lineart that hasn't made its way into this board yet.

So... Gaia Gundam could be another case of Okawara ripping himself off, which would be a repeat of the relation between Freedom and Gundam XX, so you admit to a ripoff there. Gaia Gundam could also be a BuCue rehash, in which case it's a Zoids ripoff, so you've recognized the existence of another Okawara "original." Thanks for making the case for me.

No more replies from my end. This is getting about as goofy as Okawara's M-MSV line.

[Terpfen]

You must have missed last Saturday's episode, when the ZAFT report stated, in no uncertain terms, that the initial Gundams were all variants based off the Duel Gundam.

Yes, I can recognize number order in serial numbers, thank you. That doesn't mean they actually ARE continued designs, it just means that the series is pulling what we like to call a CYA.

Duel is GAT-X102. Obviously, 102 is lower than, say, the Blitz's 207. Except the Blitz doesn't look anything like the Duel. They share nothing besides the Phase Shift, and even then Blitz doesn't fulfill a function anything like what the Duel does.

There's no continuity between these designs. Who are you going to trust, Bandai or your own eyes?

[Dat Pinche Haro!]

i thought this was a thread about upcoming gundam fix and zeonography figures

[Anubis]

You're right about the GuAIZ. I put the wrong name down. See I do make a silly mistake on occasion

And once again, I am not saying the Genesis was descended fro the Blitz. That is stupid.

They copied adapted the MIRAGE system. Once you aquire a cloaking device, naturally you'll use it wherever you can, especially on a superweapon.

Edited July 19, 2004 by Anubis

[zeo-mare]

i thought this was a thread about upcoming gundam fix and zeonography figures

it was now it has become a argument over the new gundam seed destiny series, we really should put this back on topic before it gets closed, this is a cool thread, the next zeonography figures are more zakus and doms unfortunally

[Anubis]

i thought this was a thread about upcoming gundam fix and zeonography figures

it was now it has become a argument over the new gundam seed destiny series, we really should put this back on topic before it gets closed, this is a cool thread, the next zeonography figures are more zakus and doms unfortunally

Agreed, no more arguing.

I didn't want the thread to be hijjacked either. Terpfen, open another thread if you want ot continue about how seed sucks please. I'm not writing any more essays today.

Edited July 19, 2004 by Anubis

[Dat Pinche Haro!]

i thought this was a thread about upcoming gundam fix and zeonography figures

it was now it has become a argument over the new gundam seed destiny series, we really should put this back on topic before it gets closed, this is a cool thread, the next zeonography figures are more zakus and doms unfortunally

bandai should've made a gouf fix by now...and i still want a conversion from the sazabi to the nightengale....oh yeah...and the nu gundam to hi nu gundam

[Anubis]

i thought this was a thread about upcoming gundam fix and zeonography figures

it was now it has become a argument over the new gundam seed destiny series, we really should put this back on topic before it gets closed, this is a cool thread, the next zeonography figures are more zakus and doms unfortunally

bandai should've made a gouf fix by now...and i still want a conversion from the sazabi to the nightengale....oh yeah...and the nu gundam to hi nu gundam

A Gouf fix would be awesome. As long as they make a flight Gouf. Always wanted a good one of those.

The Hi-Nu is also a great idea. Never liked the Nightingale that much though.

Edited July 19, 2004 by Anubis

[Dat Pinche Haro!]

i thought this was a thread about upcoming gundam fix and zeonography figures

it was now it has become a argument over the new gundam seed destiny series, we really should put this back on topic before it gets closed, this is a cool thread, the next zeonography figures are more zakus and doms unfortunally

bandai should've made a gouf fix by now...and i still want a conversion from the sazabi to the nightengale....oh yeah...and the nu gundam to hi nu gundam

A Gouf fix would be awesome. As long as they make a flight Gouf. Always wanted a good one of those.

The Hi0nu is also a great idea. Never liked the Nightingale that much though.

but you had to admit...it'd be fun to see how bandai could pull of a sazabi to nightengale conversion

[Anubis]

i thought this was a thread about upcoming gundam fix and zeonography figures

it was now it has become a argument over the new gundam seed destiny series, we really should put this back on topic before it gets closed, this is a cool thread, the next zeonography figures are more zakus and doms unfortunally

bandai should've made a gouf fix by now...and i still want a conversion from the sazabi to the nightengale....oh yeah...and the nu gundam to hi nu gundam

A Gouf fix would be awesome. As long as they make a flight Gouf. Always wanted a good one of those.

The Hi0nu is also a great idea. Never liked the Nightingale that much though.

but you had to admit...it'd be fun to see how bandai could pull of a sazabi to nightengale conversion

That it would. Be a big box too wouldn't it

[Dat Pinche Haro!]

it'd probably be as big as the box of the Kaiyodo/Xebec Toys RNA side Temjin from Virtual-On: Orantorio Tangram

man...it's okay to dream right?

[Angel's Fury]

Good news folks!! The FIX #0013 aka DEEP STRIKER is being reissued due to popular demand and scheduled to reach next month!! I've already placed a preorder on this cool motha. Its gonna cost about US100 or so.

For those who don't know what it is....

Damn wolfx!!! You're getting me too excited!!! Now I'm gonna want to get this one too!!! Oooh!!! My wallet is aching!!!

[VF19]

Sweet Merciful Christ almighty. And I jsut freed up some shelf space to.

[ComicKaze]

I just broke my Fix 0002 :-(

Anyway, I really want a Hardygun and Vigna-Zirah fix.

[Anubis]

I just broke my Fix 0002 :-(

Anyway, I really want a Hardygun and Vigna-Zirah fix.

How on earth did you break the 0002?

[motley]

I just broke my Fix 0002 :-(

Anyway, I really want a Hardygun and Vigna-Zirah fix.

How on earth did you break the 0002?

it wouldn't be that hard, the first two GFF's were bricks, virtually no articulation, it wouldn't be that hard to break one trying to get it into a decent pose, or at least what consititutes a decent pose for #'s 0001 and 0002.

really the only thing they had going for them was the REALLY nice paint jobs. they've actually toned down the really nice paint since. my GFF 0001 looks like someone did some custom airbrush shading after the panel lines and tampo printed text was put on. its gorgeous, but its such a brick that i usually can bear to have it on display.

[ChristopherB]

After the initial release of the Deep Striker last year, they did a second run of it if I remember correctly, or at the minimum, they were able to get more in-stock at HLJ.

I'm wondering if the information listed when you click on the "Deep Striker" is from last year, but hasn't been removed. I say that because, it's still listed as being out of production.

It doesn't even show up under the normal search. I had to do an advanced search to find it.

Kinda makes you wonder.