Beware the Mosquito's Sting

[Knight26]

Well I've been looking at some more of the older designs, especially the ones where the designs were highly comprimised during development. The Mosquito is probably the worst offender, the original design was far different then what was eventually produced, as such it was never that good, in my opinion anyway. SO I started looking at new options and took a radical new approach at the redesign. The Mosquito is basically a light strike bomber and interceptor, optimized for long range interception, Wild Weasel and interdiction. So which design do you guys prefer, which one should I pursue the rework on and refine.

[Knight26]

Here is the original and it's weapon's stats:

1X Stinger Light Razer Cannon

2X Gatling MDCs

2X Torpedos on semi-recessed mounts

2X6: Missile Racks

[Knight26]

Here is the New Version and it's weapon's stats:

2X Stinger Light Razer Cannons

2X Gatling MDCs (maybe Gauss Rifles 2X or 4X)

May Add another set of guns as well

2X Torpedos in conceled mounts

2X8: Rotatry Missile Racks

If I go back to the original design I may change its weapon stats to match. The current textures are just stand ins. As always any constructive criticizism is appreciated.

Edited May 9, 2004 by Knight26

[Greyryder]

I prefer the second one, but the nose and cockpit area just don't seem to fit. I'd change it to a round nose and canopy, like a conventional fighter plane. either that, or graft in one of the cockpit sections from the first design. That blocky flattened canopy and nose just aren't working with the rest of the design.

Looking at them again, I kinda like the nose section from the first one, just the rest of the ship looks too small in comparison, and the third segment just kills the design. I'm thinking that the nose section (both cockpits and the stinger) might look pretty good on a scaled up version the seconds one's fuselage. (to preserve the proportions)

Just my $.02 worth.

Edited May 9, 2004 by Greyryder

[Mechmaster]

I didn't actually vote as I think you need a fourth category "combine the best bits of both designs"

I agree with Greyryder, the twin cockpit of the original is cool but the rest of the ship lets it down. Try merging the twin cockpit and Stinger into the new design, replacing the current cockpit and twin Stingers.

[Knight26]

Ok, looking at the replies thus far I made two test mods, very rough at this point. The first just replaces the current cockpit with a two seat tandem version of the original cockpit pod. Needs a lot of work in the pit, need to cut the seat holes back out. Other then that it is currently unchanged, except that I ripped the guns off, will reattach later.

[Knight26]

Ok, this one is a variation on the dual pod version. I stuck the twin pods in, right next to each other, and then moved the weapon arms almost back to their original position, instead of having the full just in like they currently do. I could push them all the way back, but the torpedo mounts are already encroaching on the missile packs, if I move them back further I will have to move the torpedo mounts. I have worked on a single Stinger version yet, that may come next depending on the comments I get.

[Knight26]

Ok, now for the single Razer, dual cockpit version. Not as fond of this one, brings the torpedo mounts really close to the missile magazine, of course I can always move those around. So which version of you guys like?

[EXO]

I prefer the single pod version more and it seemsto me that the underside of the ship is more interesting than the top. IMO.

[one_klump]

Not much side visibility

maybe since having the cockpit fit so snugly 'inside' the crap, you might want to redesign the canopy.

Take a look at some of the ships in Homeworld have their canopies.

In space, visual contact is not always a luxary, so pilots rely on their instruments.

Take a look here:

[Knight26]

Acutally side visibilty isn't that bad in them, not fantastic but not bad at all really. The Tandem designs ahve slightly less side visibilty, but that can be corrected, move the pit up and forward, etc... Then only the WSO has his visibility comprimised, but only just. As for the bottom being more visuall interesting, the rest of the armament has not been attached, nor the panels, fins, equipment pods, etc...

[Greyryder]

I was thinking of the side by side ones being a little further outboad, but I really like that tandem version.

I'd just raise the tandem design's rear seat, and give the canopy more of an arched profile to acomdate it. Just continue that contour down the top of hull. The nose won't look so tacked on, the overall look will improve, (IMO) and the rear seat gets improved visibility,

[Commander McBride]

I'd personally like to see it with an attack-helicopter-ish cockpit myself.

Another option would be a Strike Flanker-esque cockpit, with both pilots side-by-side, like in a civillian plane, but with the WSO / RIO seated a bit back as to compromise the pilot's vision less.

[Greyryder]

I'd personally like to see it with an attack-helicopter-ish cockpit myself.

Another option would be a Strike Flanker-esque cockpit, with both pilots side-by-side, like in a civillian plane, but with the WSO / RIO seated a bit back as to compromise the pilot's vision less.

Attack chopper cockpit is back to having a boxy nose section, unless you want to go with one of the KA-50-2 concepts. Keep in mind, that this is from a guy who keeps trying to make mech designs based on an RAH-66 Comanche.

A side by side configuration might make it too wide, and throw off the proportions. The semi tandem idea might work, I've seen where those can be made narrower than a regular side by side configuration.

[Commander McBride]

Well, I'm talking about keeping the curved cockpit lines, but just shaping it so that the rear seater is substantially higher than the guy in front.

And the side-by-side isn't as bad as you think. Check out the Su-27KUB (Su-33UB) (The SU-33's carrier operations trainer prototype) or the Su-34 (Su-32FN) (AKA Strike Flanker), to see how much the shape can be preserved.

[KingNor]

i like the second one with the single cockpit.

[one_klump]

Hmm, try to imagine this:

single, tandom cockpit, but moved to one side, ala millinnium falcon, and have the two laser thingies side by side in the center?

[Knight26]

Interesting idea one klump, and while visually interesting flying an aircraft from off center would be a serious pain. Will have some pics of the new tandem stepped cockpit in a little bit.

[Knight26]

OK, here are the test renders for the new cockpit pod. It is currently not attached I know, I am working on an adapter unit so it can mount to the main fuselage. The cockpit pod is actually common to multiple craft, on other fighters it would be used for the two seat trainers and such. The rear seat is stepped up to give the back seater great visibility, so what do you all think?

[Greyryder]

Much much better. I like it. *insert thumbs up smiley, here*

[Commander McBride]

I agree, that version is the best.

[Mechmaster]

This version is definitely an improvement on the original, but I like the twin pod version as well, maybe you could retain it as some form of specialist variant.

[Knight26]

Well here is a quick update, I've been experimenting with the cockpit adapter neck since I got home from work. I think I've found I like that doesn't destroy the overall look. Let me know what you all think. I will probably mount the gauss rifles under the cockpit where it meets the main fuselage, that or on either side, with the Plaser cannons under the cockpit on the neck.

Edited May 11, 2004 by Knight26

[Knight26]

Here is a slight variation on the design, with the neck flipped. It looks a little more interesting but with the cockpit so low it limits visibilty a great deal, what do you all think? I will likely stay with the other version, or possibly go for an intermediate position, but anything lower then the first version limits visibility.

[Knight26]

oops. double post.

Edited May 11, 2004 by Knight26

[Knight26]

Ok a quick attack shot, still needs the rest of its weapons and detailling though.

[Greyryder]

I'm likin' that a lot. The version with the cockpit higher looks better to me.

Dig the black paint job, too.

[Zentrandude]

i like to see it with 2 rear thrusters instead of the one big on.

ascii art

\_| |_| |_/

like that but better looking

[Mechmaster]

Kinda difficult to make it out with the black colour scheme but it looks good as far as I can see. I'm guessing that that is just a temporary texture as it has no detail, I think if you could add a dark texture that didn't swallow quite so much light it would look really cool.

As for visibility from the cockpit I don't think thats an issue with spacecraft, given the immensity of space and the fact that the lights (suns) are so far apart pilots would rely mainly on sensors anyway, I generally design spacecraft with armoured cabins with no direct vision ports.

I have to disagree with Zentrandude, I like the large single thrust unit.

[Knight26]

Deep space combat would be based more on sensors then visula tracking. However I see most space combat taking placing near planets since that is what you will be fighting over for the most part. That is why I put so much influence on visibility.

[Knight26]

Next update. I added the weapons next will come the details, panels, fins, etc...

The two large guns on either side of cockpit are 180mm smooth bore gauss rifles, high speed and penetration, the projectiles are so magnetically charged on launch that they will actually degauss the electronics of a fighter if they connect and don't destroy it in the process.

The gun pack on the belly has four 90mm O2 Plaser Cannons, basically its a nod towards the P-61 Blackwidow. I was originally going to mount in on the top of fighter like on the Widow, but then the cockpit interfered with its line of fire. I may add a pair of guns to the top on either side of the cockpit, but that is up in the air.

So what do you guys think?

[Knight26]

Two attack shots, one from above, the other below. The topside does need something I admit.

[Phyrox]

I am actually starting to like this thing (i initially voted to scrap them both).

My only current reservations:

The forward engine nacelles (if that is what they are): maybe it is just the texture, but they don't look right to me. too pointy maybe...I dunno. just not "right"

The asymetric open bay: normally I am a fan of asymetry, but this design is too sleek for it. what is that bay/hatch for, and does it exist on both sides?

The huge caliber of the weapons: they just seem too mechwarrior-ishly large. why so big? the trick in space i image would be to hit something moving so fast, and for that I would want RoF, not large rounds. plus, i would imagine that with the incredible destructive force unleashed when a projectile of such speed impacts a ship (pressurized or not) would make a large round rather superfluous. i could be wrong, being that we don't have a lot of evidence either way.

All that said, I should repeat, I am really liking where this is going...just wanted to add some constructive comments.

[Greyryder]

I like this more and more. I wouldn't do too much with the top. It gives it a nice sleek look, as it is. Plenty of room for custom "nose art" too.

Whether or not the cockpit visibility would really be need in space, pilots would really bitch if they couldn't see out.

[Knight26]

Those engine "nacelles" are actually the main weapon, the Stinger class Light Razer Cannon, a light anti-capital weapon.

The open bays, one is opened the other closed to show that they do open and close, they are the torpedo mounts, that is the yellow thing inside the left one.

The primary reason this beasty has such large caliber weapons is that its primary us is as an attack or anti-bomber craft. Even fighter shields are thick and a strong punch is needed, but capital ship shields are so thick that most fighters simply cannot attack them. The 90mm Plasers are actually a fairly common caliber even on fighters for a single barrel weapon. Now on Gatling types you are looking at a 45mm caliber. On Fighter scale MDCs the caliber is similar.

Thanks for the comments guys.