LV-7

[Project Phoenix]

Actually, the parasite idea was already in used during WW2 by the Luftwaffe. I believe the name of the design is called the Mistel.

Near the closing stages of the war, Me-109 or FW-190s would be mated to a converted bomber(usually Ju-88 or any other available designs). The fighters are mated on top while the bomber below is unmanned with the entire head section converted into a giant bomb.

The idea was to have the fighter fly both planes to a target, usually a bridge or fortified position, and then have the bomber dive straight at the target while the fighter break off at the last possible moment. In other words, it's flying torpedo.

I found something here.

Hope it helps.

Edited April 11, 2005 by Project Phoenix

[Lindem Herz]

Yes, as far as I know, parasite fighters aren't anything new. From the SPB/I-16 you mention (nicely modelled in Il-2 Forgotten Battles: Aces), to the SR-71/D-12, there has been lots of proven examples. With an appropiate fly by wire system and laser aligment, I think a drone could attach quite easily to a mothership. After all, that's what the USAF uses to refuel, kinda.

However, I would't qualify the mix of the Seiran-99 with the AXPT-108 (all that's known as a designation for that model) as a parasite/mothership scheme rather than a multi-part airframe. Both parts are at least as big as each other, and joined they form a different airfoil profile, let alone a different aerodynamic profile.

And a sudden change of aerodynamic profile is akin to losing or gaining a wing, a tail or an engine pod in midair - don't think it's a good thing to happen

Now, on a totally different matter, I have on my side a copy of the Shoji Kawamori Design Works and a plugged in scanner. Anybody has any request?

[hellohikaru]

well this is anime so i guess anything that looks cool is possible. Just like the Legioss+Thread combination from Mospeada.

That SeiRan design deserves to be adapted into Macross. Call it the VF-16 Flankerer or whatever. He did after all use the Invader design from the same series.

Lindem Herz, if its no trouble can you provide larger scans of the normal fighter mode like the one in my second post ? btw are there any 3 views or cockpit drawings ?

[promethuem5]

Knight26 made my day with the Pope John Paul Kickass comment....

[Godzilla]

Looks really wierd.

[promethuem5]

I agree.... Space Pope aside, swords on Variable Fighters don't make sense to me.... they are a slow close combat weapon, airplanes are fast, highly maneurverable vehicles with ranged weapons... I feel like I'm missing something here

[ComicKaze]

It's cool but really too bumpy with tech kibble dents and buldges to be genuinely aerodynamic.

[Duke Togo]

Is it just me, or has it been 10 years since Kawamori has come up with anything worthy of praise? Same thign has happened with Shirow... so caught up with style, and the genius of their past works vanish.

[Mechamaniac]

Yeah, obviously, this design came out of his "everything has to have diamond shoulders" phase. Yay, from that phase, we got the Battle 7, the Varuta fighters, Escaflowne, and this thing.

It got old a while ago.

[Ali Sama]

me takign abreak from comic colors an havign alittle fun.

Edited April 12, 2005 by Ali Sama

[yellowlightman]

Is it just me, or has it been 10 years since Kawamori has come up with anything worthy of praise? Same thign has happened with Shirow... so caught up with style, and the genius of their past works vanish.

I completely agree, Macross Plus was kind of the tail-end of Kawamori's creative genius in my eyes. Since then all his variable fighters have been boring as poo, none of them close to the style and originality of his early designs.

[Lindem Herz]

That SeiRan design deserves to be adapted into Macross. Call it the VF-16 Flankerer or whatever. He did after all use the Invader design from the same series.

Lindem Herz, if its no trouble can you provide larger scans of the normal fighter mode like the one in my second post ? btw are there any 3 views or cockpit drawings ?

Don't forget the VF-9, that was born from Advanced Valkyrie, was recycled into Air Calvary Chronicles and finally came into light in Macross M3. Heck, when the first news about Zero came up telling about a Su-27 based variable fighter, I was almost CERTAIN that Kawamori modified the Seiran for 3D animation use. Unfortunately, it turned out the be the Sv-51, which I also dig nevertheless.

Gonna scan the other variations later tonight. I found the Air Calvary Chronicles designs most interesting, specially the Asturia ones. Unfortunately, I think those two are the only published pics EVER of the LV-7 (as far as my kana goes, the name is Valorious Rapier LV-7, ヴァローリアス・レイピア LV-7), they are only ones that appear in the Design book and they are REALLY small.

Yeah, obviously, this design came out of his "everything has to have diamond shoulders" phase. Yay, from that phase, we got the Battle 7, the Varuta fighters, Escaflowne, and this thing.

That's Kawamori's very early nineties. After all, the Varuta fighters were designed originaly for ACC, and for all we know, the preproduction stage for what evetually became Escaflowne began in the 89. Taking into account the multiple changes in that production, I'd make an educated guess and say the designs were at least three years old when they premiered in Macross 7.

After all, they heavily contrast with the other two representative fighters of that era, the VF-11, YF-19 and YF-21 (won't take into account the VF-19, it had to be redisigned to be easy to draw).

On the other hand, I just HAVE to say I really, really prefer the unmodified Elgerzorene (then called Sturmzorene) from ACC. Had more style. When making the changes for Macross 7, the Head mixed them up with what I consider the most uncool design of that time, the Me-175 Messergehrin (there were some worst ones, but fortunately they don't have a name to be remembered with).

Here's the original Fz-109G Sturmzorene

Edited April 12, 2005 by Lindem Herz

[Skypoet]

me takign abreak from comic colors an havign alittle fun.

Our new Andy Warhol?

Oh BTW, if you have the patience and the time, I'd like to see other scans of the Kawamori su-27 in all modes... if you have the time...

or any scan of whatever you think of nterest in your book about Kawamori's mech designs

[hellohikaru]

oh yeah the VF-9 is a nice little valk. It is unique that it doesn't have head lasers but rather shoulder lasers(one side only). I can live with the conehead design as long as it looks cool in fighter and gerwalk modes. Coneheads are just so General Galaxy.

btw the Fz-109 could probably give us a clue on how the VA-14 roughly looks like. I am not referring to the Black Birdish version that appeared on some lineart.

FBz-99 must have followed a similar route taking designs from ACC.

Edited April 12, 2005 by hellohikaru

[hellohikaru]

I was actually wondering what the Seiran was trying to do here. Was it attempting a buddy buddy refueling with another craft.

However mahq suggested that thing is the glider armour which is worn over the Seiran.

http://www.mahq.net/mecha/macross/aircaval...-fighter-ga.jpg

So i am guessing that they combine using the cable thingy. Sounds feasible ?

[Mechamaniac]

Here's the original Fz-109G Sturmzorene

Yup, and from that, you can see the booster pods that eventually made their way onto the GP01 Gundam Fb.

[hellohikaru]

The su-27 is my favorite real-life fighter! I play a su-27 sim for PC very often, don't know if you've ever heard about it, it's called Lock On: Modern Air Combat, and it rocks!!!

yeah..i tried out the old Flanker 2.5 2nd generation sim. Lots of Russian hardware...found it hard to operate former Soviet equipment. I found Flanker 2.5 a bit bland despite its great flight model. No immersion at all.

Never tried Lock-On yet...heard its a rough jem as well.

[Lindem Herz]

yeah..i tried out the old Flanker 2.5 2nd generation sim. Lots of Russian hardware...found it hard to operate former Soviet equipment. I found Flanker 2.5 a bit bland despite its great flight model. No immersion at all.

Never tried Lock-On yet...heard its a rough jem as well.

Problem with those sims is that they don't really have a Campaing feeling. They play like a group of related missions, carried out by Generic Pilot 1 to 54, you being Generic Pilot 22. Of course, I'm not asking for something like X-Wing Alliance (I play the game over and over again just to relive the moments), but at least in Il-2 Sturmovik you have an squadron with names, faces and even birthdates and places.

Now, if only one could use the INCREDIBLE game engine of Lock On and put on a Wing Commander or X-Wing Alliance game model with an Area 88 like storyline on, that would be modern fighter pilot buff HEAVEN.

Ah, btw, here is the Glider Armor. Looks like the Seiran can take some heavy beating with it.

[Skypoet]

Well If you're ready to invest 40$, now you can get LockOn for 5$ (discount) very easily anywhere (on amazon maybe) and an addon called "Flaming Cliffs" available from www.lockon.ru. The flight models, damage models, avionics are absolutely superb, tanks, combat helos, ships all move and fight each other and there is at least one campaign available for eanch flyable aircraft (su-27, su-33, mig-29A, mig-29S, A-10, Su-25, Su-25T), many training missions (4 times more than in Flanker 2.5 at least)... BUT... this game still lacks immersion!

At least I can say that LockOn + Flaming Cliffs is a huge improvement over Flanker 2.5, but in general the immersion factor hasn't evolved... too bad

[Lindem Herz]

And here comes the big Seiran-99 photoshoot. Or something like that.

1 - Seiran with Fast Packs

[Skypoet]

Thanks a lot, Lindem Herz!

Any other interesting (unusual) designs in your Kawamori artwork book?

[Lindem Herz]

High speed mode?

Edited April 12, 2005 by Lindem Herz

[Lindem Herz]

At the request of hellohikaru

[Skypoet]

GREAT!... though... the LV-7 does not appear completely! Only the upper half...

[Lindem Herz]

Thanks a lot, Lindem Herz!

Any other interesting (unusual) designs in your Kawamori artwork book?

You're welcome

Another unusual designs... well, there are quite some here. Between the Zaibach Empire planes and the Advanced Valkyrie series, plus some others from Air Calvary and some VF prototypes (you can really see the evolution in Kawamori's design philosophy here, both the VF-19Kai and VF-11MAXLKai development are most interesting), I could end up scanning more or less half of the book if let loose.

Of course, I wouldn't complain about it at all

I'll open a new thread. We've hijacked this one well enough.

Here's the Battroid

Edited April 12, 2005 by Lindem Herz

[Skypoet]

Well, THANKS!

[hellohikaru]

Thanks Lindem for the scans. Look forward to your new thread.

[hellohikaru]

Lindem i finally got my copy of MDW.The Seiran is in the color section but no sign of the LV-7. Guess its from another book.

[Lindem Herz]

Hehe, and I thought I was gonna get away from making that thread

Nop, nop, as far as I know, the lineart that Shin put up in the beginning of the thread are the only published pics of the LV-7 (they are somewhere in the interview with Kawamori at the end of the book). Shin then made colored versions of them.

And sorry about the not yet made thread, but I've been quite busy lately. Will put it up tonight or else I'll kick myself - somehow.