Toynami sending out C&D Letters to Yamato Dealers

[soze]

This was started in the "Where to Buy" section, but I'm moving that part of the conversation here as it pertains to the toys.

If I remember correctly Alex is the name of the guy that got hit with the C&D, and he runs the Little Anime Shop booth.

Oh yeah, forgot to say that when I was talking to Alex from Little Anime Shop about 2 or 3 weeks ago, he said he got a Cease and Desist from I think either Harmony Gold or Toynami.

Anyone talk to him since then?

Yeah, that's what Alex told me.

He said some of the Toynami or HG guys (can't remember which) bought some stuff from him at the Shrine and then hit him with a C&D a couple of days later.

UnF*ckinBelievable 

That's so frakking underhanded!!! Buy crap from him and then turn around and give him that crap. WTF!?!?! Sounds like something that no talent company would do though. THey're probably tearing apart the Yamatos right now and looking to see how they can bootleg it "legally". What ever... I'm sick of them. They can rot in hell with their cheap ass MPCs!!!

This really irks me.... I hope this isn't becoming more widespread. I wonder if they also hit up Bandai Re-Issue sellers as well. And also sellers of overseas macross model kits for that matter.

Edited May 4, 2004 by soze

[bsu legato]

What...? Are we talking about a *new* round of C&D letters?

[rocco_77]

yeah, is there any more details that you or someone else can provide?

[Solscud007]

Were we expecting less form them? haha Watch just for sayign that they will track down where i work and have a chat with my boss again.

[Fort Max]

I'm confused as to how this can possibily be legal.

Isn't Toynamis stuff titled as "Robotech" and Yamatos toys are "Macross" so how can they order someone selling products licensed under a different name?

It's not like the "Takara can't reissue Jetfire beacuse bandai owns it" thing, I can belive that because it's excatly the same toy but these are two very different product lines.

Fort Max

[GreatMoose]

Sounds like the antics of a year ago. WHEEEE!!

[soze]

Were we expecting less form them? haha Watch just for sayign that they will track down where i work and have a chat with my boss again.

They've chatted with your boss before????

What the heck do you do?

[DrClay]

I'm confused as to how this can possibily be legal.

Isn't Toynamis stuff titled as "Robotech" and Yamatos toys are "Macross" so how can they order someone selling products licensed under a different name?

It's not like the "Takara can't reissue Jetfire beacuse bandai owns it" thing, I can belive that because it's excatly the same toy but these are two very different product lines. 

Fort Max

harmony gold claims to own all American rights to all things Macross apparently they think this includes macross plus, II, 7, DYRL?, VF-X... you name it. If it is Macross, then according to harmony gold it is not allowed to be brought into america by any means... I think the last time i heard of them doing this, they refered to yamatos and bandais as bootleg robotech toys and demended that they be "returned" to harmony gold.

Edited May 3, 2004 by DrClay

[Dangaioh]

I'm confused as to how this can possibily be legal.

Isn't Toynamis stuff titled as "Robotech" and Yamatos toys are "Macross" so how can they order someone selling products licensed under a different name?

It's not like the "Takara can't reissue Jetfire beacuse bandai owns it" thing, I can belive that because it's excatly the same toy but these are two very different product lines. 

Fort Max

harmony gold claims to own all American rights to all things Macross (apparently they think this includes macross plus, II, 7, DYRL?, VF-X... you name it. If it is Macross, then according to harmony gold it is not allowed to be brought into america by any means... I think the last time i heard of them doing this, they refered to yamatos and bandais as bootleg robotech toys and demended that they be "returned" to harmony gold.

um... isn't robotech actually bootleg?

[crazypakan]

Too bad. I actually forgot about all this and assumed that HG had backed off. They aren't even selling the MPC so much anymore, I don't understand why Yamato or Bandai would be cutting into their sales to the point where they'd have to be lame about it.

[RTShark]

Now correct me if I'm wrong as I wasn't really active in this stuff the last time this happened, but the order of events was basically HG giving the C&D...

Some retailers asking HG for proof of their claims before complying and then refusing to comply when HG didn't back up their claim...

Is this about right (albeit a short-short version)?

[Angel's Fury]

I'm confused as to how this can possibily be legal.

Isn't Toynamis stuff titled as "Robotech" and Yamatos toys are "Macross" so how can they order someone selling products licensed under a different name?

It's not like the "Takara can't reissue Jetfire beacuse bandai owns it" thing, I can belive that because it's excatly the same toy but these are two very different product lines. 

Fort Max

harmony gold claims to own all American rights to all things Macross apparently they think this includes macross plus, II, 7, DYRL?, VF-X... you name it. If it is Macross, then according to harmony gold it is not allowed to be brought into america by any means... I think the last time i heard of them doing this, they refered to yamatos and bandais as bootleg robotech toys and demended that they be "returned" to harmony gold.

Lucky that hasn't happened to any of the Canadian retailers. I'm still greatfull that I can still get my Yammie toys here.

[APU]

I'm confused as to how this can possibily be legal.

Isn't Toynamis stuff titled as "Robotech" and Yamatos toys are "Macross" so how can they order someone selling products licensed under a different name?

It's not like the "Takara can't reissue Jetfire beacuse bandai owns it" thing, I can belive that because it's excatly the same toy but these are two very different product lines. 

Fort Max

harmony gold claims to own all American rights to all things Macross (apparently they think this includes macross plus, II, 7, DYRL?, VF-X... you name it. If it is Macross, then according to harmony gold it is not allowed to be brought into america by any means... I think the last time i heard of them doing this, they refered to yamatos and bandais as bootleg robotech toys and demended that they be "returned" to harmony gold.

um... isn't robotech actually bootleg?

Um no a bootleg is somthing made of a existing product without permission. Like those swapmeet Spiderman that says "Spaderman" or "fighting Rangers" for Powerrangers.

[RichterX]

Wouldn't it be a better world if HG disapeared...

I hope someday Big West, Bandai and Yamato just bury them in paperwork...

[Impreszive]

Ah, whatever HG.

They can't stop me from ordering online anyways. Besides, it is usually cheaper, and there are few retailers in my area that sell Yamato VF-1s. They wanna bitch about it, let 'em. Few are listening anyways. They're like the SCO of the anime world. I'd love to see them try to bar retailers from selling them at conventions and such.

[APU]

Who actually buys imports from conventions, the prices are usually WAAAYYYY too much, especially the Shrine.

[do not disturb]

the C&D letters are gay.

unpopular opinon....

if toynami can incorporate(nicer word for steal) some of yamato designs, i'll start buying toynami products. i doubt they'll ever be able to match the quality but hey, if i can get valks for $80 here in the states instead of paying $150, i'll take em.

[EXO]

I'm confused as to how this can possibily be legal.

Isn't Toynamis stuff titled as "Robotech" and Yamatos toys are "Macross" so how can they order someone selling products licensed under a different name?

It's not like the "Takara can't reissue Jetfire beacuse bandai owns it" thing, I can belive that because it's excatly the same toy but these are two very different product lines. 

Fort Max

harmony gold claims to own all American rights to all things Macross apparently they think this includes macross plus, II, 7, DYRL?, VF-X... you name it. If it is Macross, then according to harmony gold it is not allowed to be brought into america by any means... I think the last time i heard of them doing this, they refered to yamatos and bandais as bootleg robotech toys and demended that they be "returned" to harmony gold.

Actually they claim blanket rights to everything with the name of Macross outside of Japan. I think with the recent developments they are reasserting this claim, especially when it comes to DYRL.

And sorry about the language... I posted that in a less popular section.

[the white drew carey]

Now correct me if I'm wrong as I wasn't really active in this stuff the last time this happened, but the order of events was basically HG giving the C&D...

Some retailers asking HG for proof of their claims before complying and then refusing to comply when HG didn't back up their claim...

Is this about right (albeit a short-short version)?

Yes. Blasto Toys hired a lawyer who requested that HG back up the claims they made in the original C&D letter which HG refused to do.

[Blaine23]

This crap makes me feel like I just hoped in the Wayback Machine with Mr. Peabody.

[soze]

I'm confused as to how this can possibily be legal.

Isn't Toynamis stuff titled as "Robotech" and Yamatos toys are "Macross" so how can they order someone selling products licensed under a different name?

It's not like the "Takara can't reissue Jetfire beacuse bandai owns it" thing, I can belive that because it's excatly the same toy but these are two very different product lines. 

Fort Max

harmony gold claims to own all American rights to all things Macross apparently they think this includes macross plus, II, 7, DYRL?, VF-X... you name it. If it is Macross, then according to harmony gold it is not allowed to be brought into america by any means... I think the last time i heard of them doing this, they refered to yamatos and bandais as bootleg robotech toys and demended that they be "returned" to harmony gold.

Actually they claim blanket rights to everything with the name of Macross outside of Japan. I think with the recent developments they are reasserting this claim, especially when it comes to DYRL.

And sorry about the language... I posted that in a less popular section.

Sorry >EXO<, I should've asked about quoting your portion first.... but that is pretty much the feeling I get about the C&D letters and pretty much summed it up for me.

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

Excuse my ignorance... What's a C&D letter?

[soze]

Excuse my ignorance... What's a C&D letter?

Cease & Desist AKA Stop or Else I'm going to make your life hell using the legal system.

[Ali Sama]

Excuse my ignorance... What's a C&D letter?

cease and desist basicly sot stop all sale of.

Edited May 3, 2004 by Ali Sama

[the white drew carey]

Excuse my ignorance... What's a C&D letter?

Cease and Desist.

As in "stop selling Yamato toys in our market".

The last time HG did this, they actually demanded that the vendors drop off all of the infringing stock at HG and that, if they did so, everything would be square.

Like I said above, Blasto-Toys challenged them with a lwayer and they shut-up.

I wonder if any of our online vendors got new C&D letters? Valk-Exchange... you out there?

[Angel's Fury]

A Cease & Desist letter is basically a letter that tells a retailer that they cannot sell anything without the company's authorization. Hope that sums it up Lonely Soldier Boy!

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

Thank you, guys. You have explained it very clearly.

C&D letters are for sassies!!!

[EXO]

I can think of a few more words that starts with C&D that would paint a picture of HG's standards and practices. But that would involve profanity all over again.

Edited May 3, 2004 by >EXO<

[Solscud007]

Soze, you missed out on all the antics of HG a couple years back. This was the summer before I transfered to UCI. So about 2 years ago. I was workign at a toy distributor. Me, Rick Hunter, and other Macross purist fans/buddies went to Anime Expo that year to attend HG's Robotech panel. I asked the first question "How do you justify that all your produts are bootlegs of Macross?" and of course I was not alone in askign such type questions. We used references to toys they ripped off and such. Anyway this continued again at San Diego Comic Con (at the HG panel there).

I saw my boss (owner of company too) on the floor with his family at SDCC. He pulled me aside and asked if I told anyone where i worked. I said no (cause I honestly could not remember name dropping my workplace anywhere to anybody) he then told me that some people he knows told him I have been "harrassing" them. So I said who? He then rhetorically asks me who works at Toynami. I answered George Sohn. He then says who does he work for. Ahhh HG. bingo!!!!

Some how they found out who I was and then using their toy maker to contact my boss and try to shut me up. Of course my boss doesnt care what i do as long as his company is not involved. I reassured him that what i do during my off hours is my business and I have never mentioned his name or my work place. So he dropped it.

Of course there is always the awkward hellos from the Yuns at HG and most of the HG higer ups I occasionally run across at conventions.

[Godzilla]

Regardless, C&D letters are just another way of being a pansy. Frankly I wouldnt be surprised if they start this whole mess up because the 1/48s (or for that matter any other Yamato Macross product) are cutting into their sales and price slashing of the MPCs. HG need to take a lesson in this: Make a better quality product so more peole will buy it. Dont just rip people off.

I use to like HG because I liked Robotech but after the MPC crap and being a corporate bully, they can go to hell for all I care.

Unfortunately, I preordered and Alpha because I want one... I am regretting that decision... we will see when that puppy comes out.

As for dropping those "illegal" merchandise on HG's doorstep, what would HG do with them? Keep them for themselves? I bet it is the only way to get those toys for them without getting slapped by their bosses.

[Beware of Blast]

Hah, just play a retard and ignore those C&D letters. The chances of any sellers getting detained for a court case over these alleged parallel Japanese Macross merchandise, is as strong as HG coming clean with everyone on how far-reaching their "rights" can go.

So sit back and relax retailers, make yer millions, swim thru that Olympic-sized pool of dollar bills and schmoke a cigar! I bet this will go on for a few more of generations without as much as a fart from HG.

Edited May 4, 2004 by Beware of Blast

[soze]

Soze, you missed out on all the antics of HG a couple years back. This was the summer before I transfered to UCI. So about 2 years ago. I was workign at a toy distributor. Me, Rick Hunter, and other Macross purist fans/buddies went to Anime Expo that year to attend HG's Robotech panel. I asked the first question "How do you justify that all your produts are bootlegs of Macross?" and of course I was not alone in askign such type questions. We used references to toys they ripped off and such. Anyway this continued again at San Diego Comic Con (at the HG panel there).

I saw my boss (owner of company too) on the floor with his family at SDCC. He pulled me aside and asked if I told anyone where i worked. I said no (cause I honestly could not remember name dropping my workplace anywhere to anybody) he then told me that some people he knows told him I have been "harrassing" them. So I said who? He then rhetorically asks me who works at Toynami. I answered George Sohn. He then says who does he work for. Ahhh HG. bingo!!!!

Some how they found out who I was and then using their toy maker to contact my boss and try to shut me up. Of course my boss doesnt care what i do as long as his company is not involved. I reassured him that what i do during my off hours is my business and I have never mentioned his name or my work place. So he dropped it.

Of course there is always the awkward hellos from the Yuns at HG and most of the HG higer ups I occasionally run across at conventions.

Damn! Wish I could've been there to see their faces when you asked those questions.

Maybe you'll get a chance to do it again?

[Khyron]

Could we actually get some confirmation that it is happening before we bitch about HG? So far it is one of those: "A friend of a friend said.." things. With all the attempts to bash HG/Toyname on this site, I'm not putting faith in a rumor. I want a first hand account.

Also, if it is true then HG does have some ground if they are just trying to stop VF-1 toys from being sold. Yamato VF-1 toys cut into Toynamis sales. HG owns the rights to the TV series, which has the VF-1. The DYRL VF-1 is not different enough to distinguish it from the TV version. Yes there may be some minor differences (I sure can't tell) but not enough to make it easily distinguishable. If you had a TV Valk and a DYRL Valk sitting next to each other on a table and you asked people walking by if they were the same or different, everyone would say they are the same thing. Anyone who thinks some judge is going to say they are different enough as to not be mistaken for each other if fooling themselves.

[Beware of Blast]

HG owns the rights to the TV series, which has the VF-1. The DYRL VF-1 is not different enough to distinguish it from the TV version. Yes there may be some minor differences (I sure can't tell) but not enough to make it easily distinguishable. If you had a TV Valk and a DYRL Valk sitting next to each other on a table and you asked people walking by if they were the same or different, everyone would say they are the same thing. Anyone who thinks some judge is going to say they are different enough as to not be mistaken for each other if fooling themselves.

No need to bother asking an average Joe the differences. Chances are, if he haven't seen the show, he won't buy either one. Buying either one as a present for someone whose a fan, will present EQUAL opportunity for the products from both sides.

Judges are there for a reason.

[Anubis]

Actually, Anime Expo this year is when HG is supposed to cough up exactly what the deal is regarding DYRL, and how they are doing merchandise for it. I imagine there will be many, many questions once they make any announcements.