Toynami sending out C&D Letters to Yamato Dealers

[RichterX]

Nothing good can come out of that... nothing good...

[Neova]

Now correct me if I'm wrong as I wasn't really active in this stuff the last time this happened, but the order of events was basically HG giving the C&D...

Some retailers asking HG for proof of their claims before complying and then refusing to comply when HG didn't back up their claim...

Here is what I want to know:

1) Alex to confirm this story

2) Scans of C&D that are current

3) Proof of claim

You cannot enforce a claim without proof. Thats like some joker telling you to get off the block cuz he claims to own it. If someone got a laugh out of it, that person would be lucky, let alone beat to a bloody pulp.

Edited May 4, 2004 by Neova

[muswp1]

You cannot enforce a claim without proof. Thats like some joker telling you to get off the block cuz he claims to own it. If someone got a laugh out of it, that person would be lucky, let alone beat to a bloody pulp.

That's exactly what Harmony Gold did two years ago. After a couple of MW related retailers laughed at them (and SpideyJersulem (sp??) at Blasto Toys got a lawyer involved), they basically dropped it and nothing happened except for a few very nasty flame wars between Macrossworld and Robotech.com's forum members.

Edited May 4, 2004 by muswp1

[chowyunskinny]

I happened to mention this tidbit in a post in the Franks & Sons weekly report in the "Where To Buy" Forum because I know that a lot of the MW members who post there go to Frank & Sons regularly and some talk to that dude on a regular basis.

I was curious to see if anyone had talked to Alex of Little Anime Shop RECENTLY (since the 3 weeks ago when he told me about the C&D) because his booth was closed when I was there this past Saturday.

I in no way claimed it as fact. I was simply trying to quote what he had told me.

So it wasn't a friend of a friend, it was a Toy Dealer to a MW member.

Oh and he hasn't posted here on MW since this thread back in November.

You can try and contact him if you want through his MW name: Little Anime Shop

Also, another MW member overheard Alex saying that to me. Check the last page of the Frank & Sons thread.

Edited May 4, 2004 by chowyunskinny

[APU]

Its funny because some of you will remove the MPC Alphas from the shelf when you take your collection pics for the board. Your getting them just like me

[Neova]

I asked only cuz I was wondering when Toynami / Harmony Gold was going to fedex a C&D letter to those selling Yamato Macross products OUTSIDE of the USA.

PS: I have my Imai Legioss kits for my shelves when they're done.

Edited May 4, 2004 by Neova

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

uh. waht do the MPC alphas have to do with this? those arent macross so sorry buddy those dont count. ANd not everyone is a hypocrit like you like to think. There are some who like the MPC on this board and again like i always say a lot who hate it for good reason. COmpare a 1/48 and an MPC and its like a god compared to a insect. I doubt someone would take down MPC alphas just kuz its toynami. You keep thinking people hate the MPCs just because of HG wwhen the real reason people hate them is because the quality on most of them is horrible.

[Ladic]

I like my MPC, but that is because I have paid under $40 for each one.

[Wicked Ace]

uh.  what do the MPC alphas have to do with this?

You keep thinking people hate the MPCs just because of HG when the real reason people hate them is because the quality on most of them is horrible.

Well said. I'd like to add that it's the quality (or lack thereof) coupled with the price that is offensive, not to mention Toynami's questionable business practices. I would agree with another member that under $40 is a fair price for an MPC. Hell, I might even buy a VF-1R for that price! Animation mistakes rock!

*edit: I sort of already did.

Edited May 4, 2004 by Wicked Ace

[APU]

uh. waht do the MPC alphas have to do with this? those arent macross so sorry buddy those dont count. ANd not everyone is a hypocrit like you like to think. There are some who like the MPC on this board and again like i always say a lot who hate it for good reason. COmpare a 1/48 and an MPC and its like a god compared to a insect. I doubt someone would take down MPC alphas just kuz its toynami. You keep thinking people hate the MPCs just because of HG wwhen the real reason people hate them is because the quality on most of them is horrible.

You got me mixed up, I love the MPC and everybody here knows it. Im saying that a LOT of people bash Robotech and HG just to fit in. What I was referring to is the people who say "I hate Harmany Gold" to fit in but actually buy the products. Im also talking about those who never even had a MPC and bash it, I think the MPC is better than the Yamato 1/60 in every way. I have 2 of each MPC and have no QC problems with any. Im not saying that everybody should love it because I do, just dont blindly hate a toy or a toy Co to be part of the gang. Its toys to us, its business to them so how can you be mad at a company? Its like if I sold lemmonade, I would not want the kid from the next block on my street selling limeade, its business, its money its leagal. It only makes you guys mad because its a product you love.

[Wicked Ace]

Im saying that a LOT of people bash Robotech and HG just to fit in.

just dont blindly hate a toy or a toy Co to be part of the gang.

These statements puzzle me.

[ewilen]

APU, your mind reading act is getting tiresome. Who are you to second-guess the reasons people give for their own opinions? And how many times does this need to be quoted:

If you don’t want see anything negative about Robotech go to Robotech.com.

(Look here.)

Edited May 4, 2004 by ewilen

[Myersjessee]

wow...here we go again....what a load of BS

[Mechamaniac]

Its like if I sold lemmonade, I would not want the kid from the next block on my street selling limeade.

That's crap. To put things in their proper perspecitve. If you sold Lemonade and the kid on the next block sold limeade, you would not want that kid to be in business as he is the competition. Understandable.

.....If you were ethical, you would take steps to ensure that your products and prices brought your customer base to you.

.....If you were HG, you would pursue every legal avenue to cover up the fact that the other kid's limeade was just hands down tastier and a better value than your lemonade.

You don't see McDonalds suing Burger King because they both sell hamburgers do you?

[trueblueeyes]

I'm no fan of Toynami or Harmony Gold myself, but shouldn't we be waiting for confirmation before arming the lynch mob? Am I the only one that thinks it odd that one small dealer got a C&D letter, but yet some of our own favorite e-tailers who have received them in the past have heard nothing? Please understand I am not calling the MW member who brought this to our attention a liar. However, it is possible he was given faulty information.

I would not be any more suprised than most if this is true and would be just as angry as the rest of you. HG has pulled these stunts in the past so we know they are capable. I am just suggesting some caution until we have confirmation. Then I'll be more than happy to pick up my own torch and pitchfork and storm their company headquarters. I just think it might be better to wait and see if we hear anything from Kevin, Tamim, or any of our other e-tailers before we start sending angry letters and threats to HG and Toynami. I'm just afraid acting on incorrect information in such a way may stir up the bee's nest and may even cause some problems for our favorite retailers. But what the hell do I know?

Melissa

[RTShark]

hate Harmany Gold" to fit in but actually buy the products. Im also talking about those who never even had a MPC and bash it, I think the MPC is better than the Yamato 1/60 in every way. I have 2 of each MPC and have no QC problems with any. Im not saying that everybody.

I did buy Harmony Gold products. I bought an MPC. I regretted it the instant I opened the box. I won’t now (mostly). I may buy the Alpha MPC, but if I do it’ll be on the aftermarket for significantly less than retail. If I can’t buy it that way, I won’t buy it.

Once again the MPC comes up. In another thread recently you were ragging on somebody who owned an MPC for putting it down. You said he must be lying because he obviously liked the MPC but was just bashing it to fit in. Never mind the fact that, like me he bought it because he thought it would be cool and then was disapointed.

I asked you in that thread, which you didn’t respond to, so I’ll ask again:

You rag on people who never bought an MPC who put it down for talking about something they don’t know about.

You’ve ragged on people who did buy an MPC who put it down, because, obviously they must love it and they’re just putting it down to fit in.

Which is it? Can't have it both ways. Who's allowed to say anything bad about the MPC? Those who bought it, or those who didn't?

I'll just guess at the answer: Nobody, right?

Well, I could care less about fitting in. Heck, I’ll even say that I don’t hate Robotech. I like the original series’ better (from what I’ve seen of them) but I don’t hate the existence of Robotech. How could I? I wouldn’t be into any of this stuff if I hadn’t watched that first.

If you want to discuss this stuff, how about answering some of these questions instead of just making the same claims over and over and disapearing when you’re challenged?

And to be fair, people are genuinely angry at HG (and I am one of them) because, even if this current C&D thing is not true or is being overblown, they have done everything they can to make it hard for fans of Macross to get quality Macross products in the US. Even that wouldn’t be so bad if they were actually filling the gap (that they’ve created), but they’re not.

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

Then I'll be more than happy to pick up my own torch and pitchfork and storm their company headquarters

You mean we don't already have enough reason to since 1991?

[chowyunskinny]

Please understand I am not calling the MW member who brought this to our attention a liar.  However, it is possible he was given faulty information.

Like I said back on Page 4 of this Thread,

I in no way claimed it as fact, I was just quoting what the Proprietor of Little Anime Shop told me First Hand. If there was any "Faulty" info, it came from him.

I posted an inquiry in a less popular thread in the "Where to Buy Section"

Frank & Sons Thread because I wanted to know if any of the F&S regulars had talked to the dude since I heard that tidbit from him. His booth was closed over this past weekend which prompted me to inquire. Check that other thread, another MW member was there and overheard my conversation with him.

If you are really concerned email him at alex@littleanimeshop.com

Edited May 4, 2004 by chowyunskinny

[Chindenathus]

My 2cents.

I have no issue with Toynami at all. They do need to pollish up there

production values though. I still have my VF-1S-FP (Roy) from them proudly

on display since it is the best American version of that design on

the market. But, Harmony Gold has in the past used a fair amount of

rather lame legal actions to try to hold on to what they liscensec from another

company. I too wish BigWest would just Superman through their Lois Lane

ass legally. For example, you don't see Hasbro harrassing BBTS for selling

Japanese product in the states, even when it is exactly the same mold/design.

I have the whole MPC series including the VF-1R, and I do plan to get the

'Alphas' (>>Prays for the Beta/Tread to be produced.) but I and all of us know

that the 1/48th is the King of all Macross toys so far. And I seriously

doubt Toynami will ever surpass the exquisite degin of that toy, they may copy

it or utilize some of the "perfect transformation" ideas I saw illustrated here a

while back, but they have a long, long way to go to catch up in engineering dept.

Admittedly the "Book Shelf" boxes are gorgeous, but I was annoyed that the

VF-1J toy within did not live up to the packaging it came in. But by the time

the Vf-1S all the way through the VF-1R (which mine was perfect from stem

to stern.) had been released they semed to have fixed their production quality

to an acceptable level. But once again at the same time Yamato had pretty

much hammered out the flaws on their 1/48 series so that when the VF-1A "LV".

was released the only thing that Toynami still beats them on, is of all things the

damned hands (I still prefer the "gundam 1/100 rip-off" hands over the "Skeletal"

hands of the 1/48.)..

As for HG issuing C&D letters, I still damn them for putting the screw to John Moscato's Legioss project. So I have no love for them. And at this rate it looks like I never will.

Edited May 4, 2004 by Chindenathus

[jasonkimberson]

No.. DYRL MPC's...

http://toynami.com/macross.html

Still looks crappy, and their buissness practices don't make them the loved underdog...

Sorry newbie 2 cents.. ignore..

What if HG and Toynami purchased the rights to macross (macross not robotech) for the USA (and or world market) and plan to release Macross toys? The c&d's then could be backed and would make sense(following there crappy business practises).

I have seen the dealer list, and stated for release are MACROSS DYRL Super Possiables (june or july release date, i have to go home and check on the exact date)

Edited May 4, 2004 by jasonkimberson

[Beware of Blast]

I'm no fan of Toynami or Harmony Gold myself, but shouldn't we be waiting for confirmation before arming the lynch mob?  Am I the only one that thinks it odd that one small dealer got a C&D letter, but yet some of our own favorite e-tailers who have received them in the past have heard nothing?  Please understand I am not calling the MW member who brought this to our attention a liar.  However, it is possible he was given faulty information. 

I would not be any more suprised than most if this is true and would be just as angry as the rest of you.  HG has pulled these stunts in the past so we know they are capable.  I am just suggesting some caution until we have confirmation.  Then I'll be more than happy to pick up my own torch and pitchfork and storm their company headquarters.  I just think it might be better to wait and see if we hear anything from Kevin, Tamim, or any of our other e-tailers before we start sending angry letters and threats to HG and Toynami.  I'm just afraid acting on incorrect information in such a way may stir up the bee's nest and may even cause some problems for our favorite retailers.  But what the hell do I know?   

Melissa

C&D letters are a common thing in businesses having to do with licences and suspected importation of parellel goods. The point is, a C&D letter is no more than unofficially marking a territory and say it belonged to a party without providing further evidence in black and white - HG had done so but nothing further. It's just a type of letter drafted by law firms. It's not a court case yet. No need to call HG for further info. Small retailers that are in doubt, just because they are the ones that get the letters, but not the bigger players, should just play dumb and ignore it.

Edited May 4, 2004 by Beware of Blast

[Blaine23]

You got me mixed up, I love the MPC and everybody here knows it. Im saying that a LOT of people bash Robotech and HG just to fit in. What I was referring to is the people who say "I hate Harmany Gold" to fit in but actually buy the products. Im also talking about those who never even had a MPC and bash it, I think the MPC is better than the Yamato 1/60 in every way. I have 2 of each MPC and have no QC problems with any. Im not saying that everybody should love it because I do, just dont blindly hate a toy or a toy Co to be part of the gang. Its toys to us, its business to them so how can you be mad at a company? Its like if I sold lemmonade, I would not want the kid from the next block on my street selling limeade, its business, its money its leagal. It only makes you guys mad because its a product you love.

Dude... could you be any more wrong?

Macross fans in the US have almost every reason to dislike HG and dislike the quality of Toynami's offerings. If either of them put out more quality stuff (HG licensing Macross to Animeigo is a good example of one of the few things they did right) then they wouldn't get badmouthed. It's not about fitting in. We critique Yamato harshly when they make mistakes.

Some real reasons to dislike HG that have nothing to do with "fitting in":

1. They stopped Toycom from releasing Macross Plus valks by Yamato for $30.

2. They send out C&D letters to companies that import Yamato valks.

3. They very, very, very rarely credit the original creators of Macross, Mospeada, and Southern Cross for actually creating the shows they turned into Robotech, yet they praise Carl Macek as if he's L. Ron Hubbard.

4. Dislike of Macross being turned into part of a hodgepodge soap opera that really doesn't work as a decent story - in many people's opinion

5. Reba West.

Some real reasons to dislike Toynami that have nothing to do with "fitting in":

1. The MPC VF-1's cost $80, despite being a domestic product

2. They announced the day before release that the Rick MPC VF-1 wasn't going to have the promised 33% diecast

3. The MPC VF-1's have light up heads. No one knows why.

4. The MPC VF-1's are obviously ripped off of Bandai (HCM), Takatoku (1/55), and Yamato (check the backpack on the MPC and the 1/60) designs.

5. The MPC VF-1's, the Superposeables, and the Morphers are all cheaper quality toys than the import versions they mimic. I've seen better plastic on my dog's chew toys.

Now, those are legitimate complaints that have absolutely nothing to do with "being part of the crowd" or "blindly hating a toy or toy co." They may not bother you, but it's obvious that they bother many of the folks here.

You may feel put upon because you like their stuff and many here badmouth it... but that doesn't mean that we aren't entitled to our own, valid, opinions.

If you expect people here to respect your opinion about the MPC, then learn to respect ours.

[Roy Focker]

Better a C&D letter than of love letter

"You turn us on." Harmony Gold, INC.

If no new news on this appears in 24 hours or so this topic will likely be closed and you can continue it in the usual debate topic.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

wait blaine! dude you forgot

LOOSE AS HELL RATCHETS ON SHINS VF1J RICK AND INCONSISTENT QUALITY ON HIS BEN MPC EVEN IF IT IS BETTER THAN RICKS QUALITY WISE.

if your on macrossworld you should know and not be blind to the fact that people dislike the MPC as a toy for reasons that are truthful and not on the HG bandwagon. even if it was a yamato toy id be pissed. loose ratchets are utterly UNACCEPTABLE to me on a variable fighter.

people got a right to be mad at a company for a shitty product. hence my anger at yamato for making the 1.60 hips prone to looseness and me not buying another VF-1 from them till the perfect 1/48 came. yes perfect.

[EXO]

Better a C&D letter than of love letter

"You turn us on." Harmony Gold, INC.

If no new news on this appears in 24 hours or so this topic will likely be closed and you can continue it in the usual debate topic.

Roy, can you make it 48 hrs? Tomorrow is when F&S is open and that the only time we have a chance to talk to Alex. I suspect that this maybe old news but if it's something recent then, it's something worth looking into.

[soze]

Better a C&D letter than of love letter 

"You turn us on." Harmony Gold, INC. 

If no new news on this appears in 24 hours or so this topic will likely be closed and you can continue it in the usual debate topic.

Roy, can you make it 48 hrs? Tomorrow is when F&S is open and that the only time we have a chance to talk to Alex. I suspect that this maybe old news but if it's something recent then, it's something worth looking into.

Yeah good idea. Hopefully it's old hat, but I guess we'll have to wait until Wednesday to find out.

[Omni Existence]

You got me mixed up, I love the MPC and everybody here knows it. Im saying that a LOT of people bash Robotech and HG just to fit in. What I was referring to is the people who say "I hate Harmany Gold" to fit in but actually buy the products. Im also talking about those who never even had a MPC and bash it, I think the MPC is better than the Yamato 1/60 in every way. I have 2 of each MPC and have no QC problems with any. Im not saying that everybody should love it because I do, just dont blindly hate a toy or a toy Co to be part of the gang. Its toys to us, its business to them so how can you be mad at a company? Its like if I sold lemmonade, I would not want the kid from the next block on my street selling limeade, its business, its money its leagal. It only makes you guys mad because its a product you love.

...that reminds of me of the people that keeps bashing Yamato's products because of the price, but still order one or two for themselves anyway.

"Hips, crips, and tites"

...just passing by.

[bsu legato]

I think the timing of this is interesting. The last time Toynami did this, they were preparing to release the original MPC VF-1. Smart shoppers couldn't be allowed to make a choice between Toynami and Yamato, could they? Here we are a couple of years later, and again Toynami is getting ready to unleash a new MPC onto an unsuspecting market. The difference is....there aren't any import "Alpha" toys! Somebody get these guys a clue!

[Godzilla]

uh.  waht do the MPC alphas have to do with this? those arent macross so sorry buddy those dont count.  ANd not everyone is a hypocrit like you like to think.  There are some who like the MPC on this board and again like i always say a lot who hate it for good reason. COmpare a 1/48 and an MPC and its like a god compared to a insect.  I doubt someone would take down MPC alphas just kuz its toynami.  You keep thinking people hate the MPCs just because of HG wwhen the real reason people hate them is because the quality on most of them is horrible.

You got me mixed up, I love the MPC and everybody here knows it. Im saying that a LOT of people bash Robotech and HG just to fit in. What I was referring to is the people who say "I hate Harmany Gold" to fit in but actually buy the products. Im also talking about those who never even had a MPC and bash it, I think the MPC is better than the Yamato 1/60 in every way. I have 2 of each MPC and have no QC problems with any. Im not saying that everybody should love it because I do, just dont blindly hate a toy or a toy Co to be part of the gang. Its toys to us, its business to them so how can you be mad at a company? Its like if I sold lemmonade, I would not want the kid from the next block on my street selling limeade, its business, its money its leagal. It only makes you guys mad because its a product you love.

It doesnt help when HG and Toynami flaunt this C&D letters and threats on top of quality of issues of an overpriced product they produce. Yes, you are right about legality of the issue but people here went with Yamato's product over Toynami's MPC not because of spite or hatred to HG or Toynami, because Yamato made a product worth buying. And actually the quality in Yamato's 1/48s improved when they found flaws on the originals. What did Toynami do? Removed the amount of Diecast. Still havent figured out the floppy leg issue.

What really gets me is this: HG claims that the Macross rights belongs to them. Yet they stole Macross, Mospeda, and Southern Cross from Japan to make Robotech in the US. So HG legally stole the idea from Japan and barred any Japanese manufacturer from selling anything Macross in this country (as well as in North America) unless it is sanctioned by HG? Only in America... it isnt a wonder why the rest of the world loathe the US? We steal and then flaunt it in front of your face saying it is now legal for us and illegal for you. The arrogance in this country just never ceases to amaze me. Don't get me wrong, I love this country and the freedom that no other country gives, it is that we need to be more humble about it.

BTW, I use to love Robotech. I wont deny that. But after watching the Macross series and doing a lot of research, I just like Macross better than Robotech. Why? Because Minmay in Macross is better than the Minmei in Robotech. Oh, that and the storyline makes more sense.

And before I get reamed for not having the MPCs...yes I bought the MPCs. I still have buyer's remorse for buying them. I bought the 1/48s. I dont have buyer's remorse... not once in the 32 1/48s I bought.

[EXO]

I think the timing of this is interesting. The last time Toynami did this, they were preparing to release the original MPC VF-1. Smart shoppers couldn't be allowed to make a choice between Toynami and Yamato, could they? Here we are a couple of years later, and again Toynami is getting ready to unleash a new MPC onto an unsuspecting market. The difference is....there aren't any import "Alpha" toys! Somebody get these guys a clue!

They could be paving the way for more MPC Veritechs... something with strike cannons, maybe...

[soze]

I think the timing of this is interesting. The last time Toynami did this, they were preparing to release the original MPC VF-1. Smart shoppers couldn't be allowed to make a choice between Toynami and Yamato, could they? Here we are a couple of years later, and again Toynami is getting ready to unleash a new MPC onto an unsuspecting market. The difference is....there aren't any import "Alpha" toys! Somebody get these guys a clue!

They could be paving the way for more MPC Veritechs... something with strike cannons, maybe...

Maybe Robotech Plus Veritechs are soon to follow!

<sarcasm>

Who wants their MPC Sam Dalton YF-19?? (aka: Isamu Dyson)

</sarcasm>

Edited May 4, 2004 by soze

[gerwalk25]

I use to like HG because I liked Robotech but after the MPC crap and being a corporate bully, they can go to hell for all I care.

The feeling's mutual.

[the white drew carey]

Better a C&D letter than of love letter

"You turn us on." Harmony Gold, INC.

That's just wrong...

[Isamu Atreides 86]

I think the timing of this is interesting. The last time Toynami did this, they were preparing to release the original MPC VF-1. Smart shoppers couldn't be allowed to make a choice between Toynami and Yamato, could they? Here we are a couple of years later, and again Toynami is getting ready to unleash a new MPC onto an unsuspecting market. The difference is....there aren't any import "Alpha" toys! Somebody get these guys a clue!

They could be paving the way for more MPC Veritechs... something with strike cannons, maybe...

Maybe Robotech Plus Veritechs are soon to follow!

<sarcasm>

Who wants their MPC Sam Dalton YF-19?? (aka: Isamu Dyson)

</sarcasm>

lets hope they don't get their hands on M7...they could make it even worse.....

[jasonkimberson]

I think the timing of this is interesting. The last time Toynami did this, they were preparing to release the original MPC VF-1. Smart shoppers couldn't be allowed to make a choice between Toynami and Yamato, could they? Here we are a couple of years later, and again Toynami is getting ready to unleash a new MPC onto an unsuspecting market. The difference is....there aren't any import "Alpha" toys! Somebody get these guys a clue!

They could be paving the way for more MPC Veritechs... something with strike cannons, maybe...

Maybe Robotech Plus Veritechs are soon to follow!

<sarcasm>

Who wants their MPC Sam Dalton YF-19?? (aka: Isamu Dyson)

</sarcasm>

lets hope they don't get their hands on M7...they could make it even worse.....

i am pretty sure they have the rights to MACROSS and not just MACROSS SAGA as they did in ROBOTECH

on the Toynami Order List

MACROSS Super Poseable Action Figures Asst 1

NOT MACROSS SAGA MASTERPIECE COLLECTION

or Any other Robotech Macross SAGA creation they made.

This would explain the new current C&D's. It seems like they bought the rights and that also explains why they have created a MACROSS Webpage with the MACROSS Logo in Japanese.