Children's entertainment... Yesterday and Today

[Agent ONE]

I have a few young nephews, when they hang out with their awesome Uncle Agent ONE we talk about all kinds of stuff, but mostly what kind of media they are surrounding themselves with. As these kids have grown up I have attempted to keep track of their favorite shows and characters they like. These kids of course like to pick one or two role model/favorites from these shows which makes sense, after all they are kids (It IS mostly the 6 to 14 age group I am referring to) I am sure you guys all make the same comparisons, I mean WE (Most MW’ers) probably wanted to grow up to be someone with a personality and presence like Major Focker, or Optimus Prime, or Lieutenant Falcon, or General Flag, or Wolverine… You get the idea.

The disturbing trend is back in our day of children’s programming we had featured characters with aggressiveness, pride, resilience, drive, ambition, and UNSTOPABLE determination, but even more importantly they were tough. They didn’t take crap from anyone. They also were featured in programming that was realistic in the respect of human nature. People are by nature selfish and that selfishness can, at times, turn into evil. Our heroes weren’t just fighting with the main enemy in the show; they were fighting against the easy of doing things, fighting against the path of least resistance. After all isn’t it easier to watch someone rob a bank, than to attempt to kick some ass and stop the robbery, this is the attitude OUR heroes were doing battle with.

The trend since we were kids has been one of featuring heroes (if I must call them that) who are just worthless weaklings who promote taking the easy way out… I am not saying ALL of the shows follow this path, but most do… I don’t know all the names but just a few, Pokemon, Barney, Teletubies, Winkies, U-Gi-OH, and I even put Macross 7 in this category. Plot-lines are unrealistic and peace and dancing while holding hands is ALWAYS the way things end, which is teaching a lesson of fantasy, NOT reality… No one is ever confrontational, there is no real problem solving, and everything is a compromise, as much as we would like to believe that is a real reflection on life, it isn’t… Nothing in life is a compromise; there are those who take and those who get ripped off, that’s life.

There is nothing but accepting those who don’t quite fit in with their peers, so they are allowed to be strange… What the fu(k. These kids are going to grow up to be the biggest pussies ever, they won’t be able to cope with general human interpersonal issues because they have been bombarded with the message, ‘its OK to be weak… its OK to not confront… its OK to never address my fears… its OK to never conform… its OK to rebel against authority… Qualities that make even Bugs and Daffy look like Arnold.

As a marketer and a person that exists in this society in one way I can’t wait till these kids come up in the corporate ranks… they will be my fodder, my kill, my prey. WE will be the LAST tough generation…

Though this thread COULD take a political turn, I don’t want it to… Keep your politics to PM if you must say something of that nature.

[robokochan]

I agree with most of what you said. But one way they could get their fighting spirt is through the Kick-Ass Video Games that are out now. I mean when I was a kid we had Asteriods and Berserk.

Rob MN

[Drad]

I must wholeheartedly agree. Except maybe with that part about "their awesome Uncle Agent ONE." Mwahaha.

How about "Super Incredibly Modest"?

[JELEINEN]

To varying exents, people in every generation say this same thing about the next. It's nothing new.

As for my own anecdotal evidence, my nephews watch the same sort of things I did as a kid. And judging by my trips to toy stores, Star Wars, Transformers, GI Joe, superheroes, etc. are just as popular now as they were 25 years ago. Sure, there are plenty of pre-school shows that emphasize getting along and playing nice, but then so did Sesame Street and Mr. Rogers Neighborhood back in the day.

[Agent ONE]

I agree with most of what you said. But one way they could get their fighting spirt is through the Kick-Ass Video Games that are out now. I mean when I was a kid we had Asteriods and Berserk.

Rob MN

Yeah, but thats different... The kids are older when they play violent games.

I am really talking about the 6-14 age group, I don't think they play Grand Theft Auto.

By the time they get to 14 if all they have been imersed with is sissy stuff, their chances or becoming normal are greatly compromised.

[Agent ONE]

I must wholeheartedly agree. Except maybe with that part about "their awesome Uncle Agent ONE." Mwahaha.

How about "Super Incredibly Modest"?

They DO refer to me as their "aweosme" uncle... Their mother (my sister in law) refers to me as the "bad" uncle... I get them M80s from overseas, got them all brass knuckels, got them drunk for the first time, got them all interested in Van Damme movies. When their parents go out of town sometimes they come and crash with me. I tell them they are allowed to watch any movie as long as there is a high body count, and their mother WOULDN'T approve of it.

[one_klump]

I agree with damn near everything you are saying, Agent ONE, and that dosen't happen to often

initilizing Rantzilla version 2.6

Today's youngsters are bombarded with 'politically correct' role models.

Why, just the other day I caught an episode of Sesame Street with my daughter (yes, I did reproduce, mwahahaha), and it was nothing like the Sesame Street I grew up with. Half the show was the little dufus Elmo doing stupid (imo) imagination land stuff. Burt and Ernie are no longer a duo, Big Bird has been relegated to the side lines, and the entire show, in general, has been dumbed down to a level of banality that numbs the soul.

It seems that this is the trend in American television targeted towards that demographic. Whereas we had G.I. Joe, Voltron, and Transformers, they have Poke'mon, Lil Bill, and pretty much the rest of ABC's saturday morning lineup. The only decent action cartoons even broadcast on Saturday morning is on FOX. They seem to have kept up with the demand for action/comedy cartoons, and not this 'edutainment' crap that pollutes the other networks.

All this is just a visual cue as to what is happening to America, the hardcore 'PC' police are an extremely vocal minority, and seem to have power over the quieter majority who are, amazingly enough, smart people who can actually make decisions for themselves, without being spoon fed the inanity of todays television

--END RANT--

sorry, had some things I needed to express

[Anubis]

I must wholeheartedly agree. Except maybe with that part about "their awesome Uncle Agent ONE." Mwahaha.

How about "Super Incredibly Modest"? 

They DO refer to me as their "aweosme" uncle... Their mother (my sister in law) refers to me as the "bad" uncle... I get them M80s from overseas, got them all brass knuckels, got them drunk for the first time, got them all interested in Van Damme movies. When their parents go out of town sometimes they come and crash with me. I tell them they are allowed to watch any movie as long as there is a high body count, and their mother WOULDN'T approve of it.

The true sign of a cool uncle.

Seriously though, you're right in the first post. Kids are completely coddeled at the young ages these days. There isn't much effort to make them tough and ready to take things on. Result is a generation of goobers, and the few that are taught to be strong will kick ass. The shows these days suck badly. If GI Joe were initially proposed today, it may likely be turned down for fear of being too violent. Sad. Whoever though teletubbies was a good thing to promote is on crack. Barney as well for that matter. Sesame street at least used to be good for the kids (have no idea about now). The golden age of kids cartoons is over. Even looney toons: look at how much they got away with in there back then that now would be bitched about if it wasn't looney toones. The kids kindof need Devil May Cry just to balance out the other crap they're exposed to. No GTA though.

Speaking of which: when do they give looney toones? I haven't seen it on in ages. It used to be on CN all the time.

[EXO]

That just goes to prove that parents should pay more attention to what kids watch. It's easy to sit them in front of the tube and go on with your day, but for kids those shows are a big part of their life. It teaches them communication skills, ettiquette, morals. I mean kids are impressionable! But all it takes is a little interest in what your kids, nieces or nephews are exposed to.

[KingNor]

yeah, americans are ruining my poor america. i may just have to move to australia.

its really just like how agent one said

[yellowlightman]

That just goes to prove that parents should pay more attention to what kids watch. It's easy to sit them in front of the tube and go on with your day, but for kids those shows are a big part of their life. It teaches them communication skills, ettiquette, morals. I mean kids are impressionable! But all it takes is a little interest in what your kids, nieces or nephews are exposed to.

I totally agree. If more people would take the time to show their children a good upbringing, everyone would be a lot better. Jack Daniels instead of milk, A Clockwork Orange and Natural Born Killers instead of Harry Potter and Barney. Hustler instead of Highlights, or whatever hippie crap kids read these days. If only parents cared.

[GobotFool]

That just goes to prove that parents should pay more attention to what kids watch.  It's easy to sit them in front of the tube and go on with your day, but for kids those shows are a big part of their life. It teaches them communication skills, ettiquette, morals.  I mean kids are impressionable!  But all it takes is a little interest in what your kids, nieces or nephews are exposed to.

I totally agree. If more people would take the time to show their children a good upbringing, everyone would be a lot better. Jack Daniels instead of milk, A Clockwork Orange and Natural Born Killers instead of Harry Potter and Barney. Hustler instead of Highlights, or whatever hippie crap kids read these days. If only parents cared.

I can't tell if your being sarcastic or serious

[EXO]

That just goes to prove that parents should pay more attention to what kids watch.  It's easy to sit them in front of the tube and go on with your day, but for kids those shows are a big part of their life. It teaches them communication skills, ettiquette, morals.  I mean kids are impressionable!  But all it takes is a little interest in what your kids, nieces or nephews are exposed to.

I totally agree. If more people would take the time to show their children a good upbringing, everyone would be a lot better. Jack Daniels instead of milk, A Clockwork Orange and Natural Born Killers instead of Harry Potter and Barney. Hustler instead of Highlights, or whatever hippie crap kids read these days. If only parents cared.

I can't tell if your being sarcastic or serious

Oh man... he's serious

... as a heart attack!

This message brought to you by the American Heart Association.

[David Hingtgen]

My main beef with the million Duel Monsters/YuGiOh/BeyBladez franchises are the whole "any and all problems can be settled with a nice game of cards etc" thing. Yeesh. Doesn't matter if it's a prelude to nuclear war, a Blizzard Dragon card can just solve anything, so long as the evil dictator who plans to kill anyone who gets in his way doesn't have an anti-ice card when you face off against him...

Duke would have just sent a squadron of F-14's to kick his ass. Which is what happens in the real world, too. Crazy evil dictator? Send the Navy.

[Jolly Rogers]

If GI Joe were initially proposed today, it may likely be turned down for fear of being too violent. Sad.

Say what? Every time someone's jet gets shot down by a missile it's parachute eject time. That show has about as high a bodycount as Hefner's prick before he found viagra.

[GobotFool]

My major beef with entertainment modern and past is that in general it gets reality way out of proportion. It's either lets all hug or lets nuke the bastards. If the 1st reality was true the world would be a much happier place, if the second were true, well non of us would be here today.

[GobotFool]

If GI Joe were initially proposed today, it may likely be turned down for fear of being too violent.  Sad. 

Say what? Every time someone's jet gets shot down by a missile it's parachute eject time. That show has about as high a bodycount as Hefner's prick before he found viagra.

Yeah, at least in exo-squad people died when they got blown up

[Mechamaniac]

That show has about as high a bodycount as Hefner's prick before he found viagra.

Dude, I hate to point it out, but Hef probably bagged more chicks BEFORE he NEEDED Viagra, than most of us will ever hit in our lifetimes.

As to the topic at hand, I agree with everything that was said.

I think it's funny that they are trying and crying to prove that the world would be such a better place if we all just got along and played nice. Hate to break it to you hippies, but humans are merely the most advanced ANIMALS on the planet, notice that I did not say the most intelligent or even the most evolved. At our cores, we are still animals, which means that we look out for number 1, shun the weak and the old, covet what we want but do not have, and ultimately fight and kill to obtain the things we want but don't have. We are little more than neo-paleolithic hunter gatherers my friends, accept it.

Yes, we are amongst the most intelligent species on the planet, and society for what it is worth has instilled in most of us some rules of basic "right and wrong" and compassion for others etc. That is why we have evolved to the point where we actually do care about the children that are starving half way around the world, but in all honesty, how many of us DO anything about it other than feel guilty for ten seconds while the commercial is on, or talk about it in polite social conversation, shaking our heads while we wear clothes and jewelry and drive cars and spend more on one night's meal than people in underdeveloped nations earn in an entire year. I'm not weeping for those urchins, I am merely trying to point out that we are all basically looking out for number 1 which is ourselves, and our own brood.

Which is why I think it is funny to watch them try to regulate toy guns out of existence. Go ahead, take away all the toy guns, and then watch and marvel at your young son who runs out in the yard, and finds the first bent up fallen tree branch. Watch as he wraps his mind around how much a certain part of it resembles some part of a weapon, and I guarantee you that within minutes, he will be running around the yard, slashing it as if it were a sword, or making rat - a - tat sounds with his newfound machine gun. Again, this illustrates the point that I'm trying to make which is that we are (especially the males) VIOLENT at our cores.

So the trend of dumbing down cartoons, and showing that we can all just compromise is really going to lead our children into believing that the world is a warm, fuzzy, happy place and that no matter how bad it gets, they can all just join hands and sing a song, and it will be OK. Wake up, and smell the patchouli, it reeks, and it is covering up a growing stench that soon will not be able to be covered anymore.

[Anubis]

If GI Joe were initially proposed today, it may likely be turned down for fear of being too violent.  Sad. 

Say what? Every time someone's jet gets shot down by a missile it's parachute eject time. That show has about as high a bodycount as Hefner's prick before he found viagra.

Yeah, at least in exo-squad people died when they got blown up

Body count or not, simple acts of violence are enough to make parents cry foul these days. I just used GI Joe as an example, though there were far more violent shows out there.

Edited May 1, 2004 by Anubis

[JsARCLIGHT]

I tried to write my response to this three times now and every time I got really political...

So to honor Agent One's request I will only post the following:

Parents raise kids not television. Only bad parents limit their child's intake of the world due to fear they will get hurt or "learn something naughty". Good parents allow them to experience the good with the bad and they educate the child as to the difference between the two. We are living in a time of terrible parents, too caught up in their own greed and ambition to properly raise their kids. I myself do not plan to have children as my fiancee and I decided long ago that we do not posess the selflessness and dedication to raise good healthy children. Few people do and most of those who think they posess those skills are deluded. Television and movies do not raise your kids, you do. If your kids turn out good that is a credit to you as a parent and if they turn out bad then guess what? YOUR FAULT! People in America love to play the blame game on everyone but themselves.

The hardest truth is the one staring you back in the mirror, folks. If you think someone else is ruining your kid that is because you are letting them raise your kid instead of you. Don't turn off the TV or video game, sit and watch with your children as my father did with me and educate them as to why things happen the way they do. Sheltered children go on to become the worst people on the planet as they have experienced little, know even less and are ill prepared to deal with things in the real world. Children raised by the TV tend to be cynnical and violent, not knowing the true reasons for the violence they just pantomime it rather than understanding it. Truly "raised" children, no matter how "smart", can and will understand the guidence of parents on matters like violence, right and wrong, sexuality and morality no matter how much "fantasy violence" TV they watch.

[GobotFool]

I gotta agree with you mechlo, we all weep and cry, and say how cruel the world is, but we never do a thing about it. 99% of the world would rather sit back and bitch and moan about how horrid we are to each other and never lift a finger to fix the problem. Not only are we at our core agressive creatures, we are also lazy bums. We'd rather sit and conserve our energy, not waste it on people whose wellbeing has really little impact upon ours, saving up for when we actually have to defend ourselves against an immediate threat.

I don't encourage us to all give into this animal nature, but the only way to fight against it it to recognize that it exists.

Ideals are good things to strive for, but to fall into a dellusion that the world is an ideal place, or that ideals are actually achievable is dangerous.

I havn't watched any modern children's shows, mostly cause I don't have children of my own, but if they are educating our kids that the world is a sweet and dandy place, that every situtation can be solved with hugs and kisses, thats just as bad as saying that every situation ought to be solved with violence.

JsArclight, gotta agree with you on the blame game deal. While we are products of our environment, very rarely do we look inward and say, "hmmmmmm, perhaps the world doesn't need to change, perhaps I need to change. Perhaps the world isn't the problem, perhaps I'm da problem"

It's good to hear someone admit that they would make a lousy parent and choose not to procreate for that reason. Man if more people though that way.... Not only would we have fewer miserable kids growing up into miserable adults, we wouldn't have such a world population problem *yes I know what I just said was idealistic crapola*

Edited May 1, 2004 by GobotFool

[Noriko Takaya]

Christ, half of the cartoons I watched when I was a kid had people getting killed, people smoking and drinking, and having personal relationships. Jonny Quest (The original series) was one of those. I've had the same feelings as Agent One has for years, even as early as the 80's when Voltron, Thundercats, and GI Joe were on television. It has been a steady degrading of television for children since the late 70's. Let's make everything our kids watch all touchy-feely. Damned hippies. Political correctness is an abomination which needs to be stamped out.

By the way, Mechamaniac, you reminded me of G Gordon Liddy just then with the picking up of a stick to use as a gun if the authorities that be ban toy guns. My grandfather also use to say the same things.

[ewilen]

Well, I haven't seen much Pokemon, Teletubbies, Yugioh, etc., so I may be posting from a position of ignorance. But it seems to me that we still have plenty of violent stuff for the kiddies. I don't know if the new Batman cartoons fit the bill (don't watch 'em) but I do seem to recall that Sailor Moon of all shows ended with the heroine waxing the baddie (at least in the first season), and had a fair bit of angst over duty and doing the right thing vs. taking the easy way out. Then there's the aforementioned video games, not to mention pro wrestling. And last I checked, comic books had become a lot more violent and lurid than they'd been in the days of the Comics Code.

Someone else mentioned a bifurcation of fictional realities, where if things don't head off into hippy-dippy flowers and handholding, you get maximal ultraviolence. That I think I agree with. It points to a general fragmentation and possibly the loss of a common (or dominant) culture.... Now I may be engaging in a little bit of the Myth of the Golden Age, but as I see it, back in the old days--pre-1960's--there was a good amount of violence in kid culture, but there was also a code of chivalry (or the code of the Cowboy) which circumscribed and channeled the violence. From the 60's onward, though, heroes increasingly had to take on some aspect of antiheroes in order to have any credibility, leading eventually to the glorification--in some genres--of the amoral egoist tinged with more than a hint of sadism.

That isn't to say I'm entirely against these changes. There's a lot I can tolerate in entertainment as long as it manages to be entertaining. But maybe the soccer moms are simply overreacting to the ready availability of that stuff to kids and demanding the diametric opposite. Thus the bifurcation.

[GobotFool]

By the way, Mechamaniac, you reminded me of G Gordon Liddy just then with the picking up of a stick to use as a gun if the authorities that be ban toy guns. My grandfather also use to say the same things.

Hell, anyone have those pipeworks toys? I used to make psuedo toy guns out of those all the time Course then there is always the ultimate natural gun toy, and no I don't mean what all you gutter heads are thinking, *balls fist up, sticks out index finger to imitate gun barrel and thumb up for the hammer* Guess the only way to stop kids from playing cops and robbers is to hack their hands off.

[Chewie]

I must wholeheartedly agree. Except maybe with that part about "their awesome Uncle Agent ONE." Mwahaha.

How about "Super Incredibly Modest"? 

They DO refer to me as their "aweosme" uncle... Their mother (my sister in law) refers to me as the "bad" uncle... I get them M80s from overseas, got them all brass knuckels, got them drunk for the first time, got them all interested in Van Damme movies. When their parents go out of town sometimes they come and crash with me. I tell them they are allowed to watch any movie as long as there is a high body count, and their mother WOULDN'T approve of it.

Will you be my uncle?!?!?

\m/

[Drad]

The hardest truth is the one staring you back in the mirror, folks. If you think someone else is ruining your kid that is because you are letting them raise your kid instead of you. Don't turn off the TV or video game, sit and watch with your children as my father did with me and educate them as to why things happen the way they do. Sheltered children go on to become the worst people on the planet as they have experienced little, know even less and are ill prepared to deal with things in the real world. Children raised by the TV tend to be cynnical and violent, not knowing the true reasons for the violence they just pantomime it rather than understanding it. Truly "raised" children, no matter how "smart", can and will understand the guidence of parents on matters like violence, right and wrong, sexuality and morality no matter how much "fantasy violence" TV they watch.

Exactly.

[Agent ONE]

Its not just an absence of violence, its a presence of promotion of weakness.

[GobotFool]

Its not just an absence of violence, its a presence of promotion of weakness.

Could ya give us an example?

Edited May 1, 2004 by GobotFool

[Mechamaniac]

By the way, Mechamaniac, you reminded me of G Gordon Liddy just then with the picking up of a stick to use as a gun if the authorities that be ban toy guns. My grandfather also use to say the same things.

it's primordial man, it's how the male of the species is wired.

And thanks for the GG Liddy comment, I take that as a compliment! Felony convictions aside, the G Man is one of my favs.

[kanata67]

I still can't believe agentone hasn't purchased any pointies from me... even if it's just a battarang for a nephew

You can say what you want about the slack as way children are raised by the slack ass decendends of the 70's who are the slack ass decendents of the hippies who are the slack ass decendents of the beatnicks....

Anyone else remember having do yard work for the town judge just cause you "accidentilly" blew something up at school????? Now these poor kids go to jail. I don't want to think about the times I should have gone to jail, much less the times I did.... even less my military experience... and I turned out one helll of a productibe [althought somewhat scary] member of society. Ive saved friggin lives.... which lord knows I wouldn't have if my pyro butt was locked up

Goes back to the lawn dart mentality. I blame 98% of americas problems on "leave it to beaver" and "barbi". Every girl has low self esteem from growing up with an unrealistict role model aand every friggin yuppie thinks they should have a house like the cleavers and lifes problems should take no more than 30 minutes to solve. Can't wait to see how all the "sheeple" cope with the coming fun . Any idiot can fire a gun, a few can fire it well, and fewer still know when it's to...

Regardless... If chowser is willing to put up with a hippie, I have no qualms about a gun toating piggy sleeping on my couch

and befoe anyone totes about how the young are pamperered now remember that niether gi-joe nor cobra could hit the inside of a barn from the inside with the doors closed. 6 friggin seasons and dusty got a concussion!!! Nobody died till the mobie. Anywinder my conan watching buttt fellin love with the blood in robotech enough to trace it to it's roots

We learned not to be afraid as stuff wouldn't hurt us unles we were the unlucky few [timmy licked the frozen flagpole... dumbass], nowadays kids learn not to make mistakes so they never learn leassons the hard way and as such don't learn.

[Mechamaniac]

remember that niether gi-joe nor cobra could hit the inside of a barn from the inside with the doors closed. 6 friggin seasons and dusty got a concussion!!! Nobody died till the mobie. Anywinder my conan watching buttt fellin love with the blood in robotech enough to trace it to it's roots

Let's not forget the A Team!

Every episode they would have a little montage where they modified their Semi-Auto Mini 14's to fire full auto, why?. How the hell should I know?, they fired hundreds, thousands of rounds on that show, and never hit a goddamn thing!!

[Jolly Rogers]

That show has about as high a bodycount as Hefner's prick before he found viagra.

Dude, I hate to point it out, but Hef probably bagged more chicks BEFORE he NEEDED Viagra, than most of us will ever hit in our lifetimes.

LOL, that was a badly worded analogy. I was comparing the physical level of "high" and totally forgot about the "body count" part as far as Hef's prick's concerned.

[Bloodcat]

GI Joe and (Lion Team) Voltron were good shows?

I knew they were unrealistic crud back when I was 9.

Nobody ever died in Joe, with Helicopter explosions being survivable. And Voltron? Well, if it wasn't for the same Blazing Sword attack almost every episode, the planet would have been screwed!

GI Joe comics on the other hand? Utterly badass and hardcore.

[LePoseur]

Actually, my nephews are just the opposite of the norm it seems. The three of them are super active/fighting/rough and tumble kids. I just got news that my oldest nephew (12)was hit square in the mouth with a hockey stick before easter and then again with a baseball bat the following week. Seems he doesn't have many teeth left.

I wouldn't describe them as girly or weak at all. In fact, if I could bring them back in time, or bring forward myself at their age, I think they wipe the floor with me. The cool thing is their a little cocky, but not super arogant like a bully or anything. In fact, her oldest has a damn good head on his shoulders and will kick my but at chess one of these days I'm sure.

They do play GTA, at least the oldest does, and they spend the time they watch TV watching more "adult" type shows. But even that's not much as most of the time they are out "playing" and getting hurt. With all three of them being into wrestling (as in the school variety), I begin to fear the day I can't beat any one of them in arm wrestling is coming soon too.

Then again, now that I think about it, they grew up watching Batman, Transformers and my old Robotech tapes and any other 80's anime I had... hmmm... Agent One, you may be on to something. Either that or it's my sister's hell of a job with raising them.

[Sumdumgai]

Good points!

It's also political correctness that screws up people. And that's about as political as this will get from me!

Weak person saves the day with a deck of cards.

Kids need better cartoons, like Strongbad!

Do you use your powers for good, or for awesome?