Valkyire fighting space monster!

[macplus]

You're kidding right?? Almost 90% of the M7 related treads are just bashing and flames fun, I don't even pay much attention to them anymore, however it's a great source for funny comments, I didn't like the series, period, it's not like I hate everyone who has to do or like it, chill out buddy! we're just having fun here! 

Not kidding a bit. And I'm well chilled out, actually.

I understand you were joking around... I just think your comment could have easily been taken the wrong way. That sort of thing can be taken seriously by people who aren't necessarily "in on the joke".

I don't like alot of individual's work, but I also think it's irresponsible to post anything even resembling an actual threat, etc... ya dig?

There's tons of stuff that I think is funny, but that don't necessarily appear funny on an internet message board. This would be one of those things.

I understand your comment, no prob, I edited a little bit the "has to die" thing, however I still think he's a troll

Later

[Uxi]

I understand your comment, no prob, I edited a little bit the "has to die" thing, however I still think he's a troll

Ah irony is delicious, aint it?

[Gideon Krieg]

While I like the title of this thread "Valkyre Fighting Space Monster", I have thought of a new one (not better, just new).

"Space Hippie"

Essentially that is what that pansy Basar is.

He has the John Lennon glasses, the unkept look, and uses music to "save the day".

Looks like a hippie's wet dream to me.

Ah, it could have been so much better. A grand, epic, space saga, with the Macross 7 fleet fighting for their lives and either wiping out or subduing the enemy in a realistic fashion, through the use of wit. Like a Star Wars type thing, infiltrate the planet Vaurata and find some way to either imprison or kill off the Protodevilns rather than do the whole wimpy way of conflict resolution. You know a grand space battle with Gupernich going KA-BOOM! Not, "Oh wow, like thank you my man Basara, for like, showing us this new trippey Spiritia. I like, haven't been this high in Millenia.", and then leaving to find the Anima Spiritia.

When I stand back and look at the series, it is somewhat like what an illicit drug trip might be like.

As for Gupernich, he looks like a silly, mutant Barney. But hey, its Macross 7. If they were to use H.R. Gigers works as a template rather than the teletubies, it would probably have been too scary for Japanese TV.

For those that do not know who H.R. Giger is, he was the brilliant artist that designed the alien from the movie "Alien" and the creatures from the movie "Species".

Edited May 30, 2004 by Gideon Krieg

[Aurel Tristen]

Macross 7 rules for many reasons, here are just a few:

Mylene-chan, VF-17 Nightmare, and the XS-06 : )

[Gideon Krieg]

Mylene-chan, VF-17 Nightmare, and the XS-06 : )

Once again, Nanashi has brought forth wisdom from chaos.

*bows down to the wisdom of Nanashi*

*kneels in European medieval fashion as if to royalty*

However, Sensai Nanashi, you have forgotten one of the most prised Macross 7 items. Sivil!!!!

Don't get me wrong, I actually did like most of Macross 7, but like everyone else (well except for Basara Keith Nekki ) I hated Basara and his wimpy crap. Even real life UN peace keepers use tanks, machine guns, and attack helicopters for their own protection if nothing else.

[Keith]

Mylene-chan, VF-17 Nightmare, and the XS-06 : )

Once again, Nanashi has brought forth wisdom from chaos.

*bows down to the wisdom of Nanashi*

*kneels in European medieval fashion as if to royalty*

However, Sensai Nanashi, you have forgotten one of the most prised Macross 7 items. Sivil!!!!

Don't get me wrong, I actually did like most of Macross 7, but like everyone else (well except for Basara Keith Nekki ) I hated Basara and his wimpy crap. Even real life UN peace keepers use tanks, machine guns, and attack helicopters for their own protection if nothing else.

Are you still spewing that old tired B.S.? Haven't you finished licking your wounds yet? If you can't keep up in a debate, then the least you can do is have the curtiousy to accidentally pop yourself while cleaning your loaded gun so someone much more deserving of a life on this planet can use the space you waste on it.

Suffice it to say, obviously you missed the whole point about being hopelessly outgunned by the Protodevelin, with reaction weapons not even being any remote help against them. There was no way to defeat them, and without Basara, everyone would have either died, or become enslaved in a spiritia farm.

What you gun nuts don't seem to understand is that there will eventually always be someone "stronger" than you out there. No matter how bad you may "think" you are, all charging into things guns blazing will do is get you & anyone you even remotely care about killed eventually.

The Macross just nearly skirted defeat in the original series, and Macross 7 puts the fleet up againt a much more unstoppable foe than a fleet of millions of Zentradi. Without finding peaceful ways to get out of situations, people will die out eventually.

[KingNor]

the least you can do is have the curtiousy to accidentally pop yourself while cleaning your loaded gun so someone much more deserving of a life on this planet can use the space you waste on it.

i don't know what prompted this kind of hateful nonsence, but most people clean their guns disassembled.. rendering them mostly unable to fire.

i was going to say more about it but lets not have this kind of talk ok?

[JsARCLIGHT]

If you can't keep up in a debate, then the least you can do is have the curtiousy to accidentally pop yourself while cleaning your loaded gun so someone much more deserving of a life on this planet can use the space you waste on it.

OK see now you brought ME back into this stupid topic. Why are you bashing gun owners now? If you ask me you have just stepped on a landmine, punk. I was staying out of this thread but now thanks to your stupid choice of an insult I'm back in. You have actually shown me just how little you actually know about things and how much you think you know about a bunch of made up cartoon nonsense.

What you gun nuts don't seem to understand is that there will eventually always be someone "stronger" than you out there. No matter how bad you may "think" you are, all charging into things guns blazing will do is get you & anyone you even remotely care about killed eventually.

Have you ever fought in a real war? No? I thought so. Do you know the truth about armed conflict and death? No? I thought so. All you know about life and death is what you see on TV just like almost everyone else. Have you ever held a gun in your hand, looking out over the horizon as a bunch of hienous crap starts rolling towards you with the intent of killing you and everyone next to you? Us "gun nuts", as you like to call us, know a hell of a lot more about life and death and war and peace than you can ever hope to know because a good number of us where soldiers. Most of us fought in a few wars here and there and most of us have a lot more responsability and common sence than a lot of other people. Stereotyping all gun owners like you just did makes me want to stereotype you back but I'm not, instead I'm going to focus on this crap-ass show that you hold on high like some sort of life model. Macross 7 from the beginning was slanted with a peace/love/no war angle and the enemies are purposefully written so strong and immune to normal weapons so the whole "love/peace/no war" angle can be exploited. Why don't the normal guns work? Because they never were supposed to. The writers are so caught up in their message that logic and common sense go right out the window. It is the most common failure of modern storytelling. There is no such thing of a war won by love and peace in reality. Wars are won by people dying in droves for no good reason and the people with the most soldiers left in the end occupying the last piece of land are the winners. People want to see wars won by peace and love because they never happen in real life. There is also no such thing as an undefeatable enemy. EVERY enemy can be beaten and killed the question is: how much are you willing to sacrifice to win? Ask the Vietcong about that one after all, they beat the juggernaught of America did they not? Peace and love only wins wars in the movies and on TV, anyone who thinks otherwise is so disconnected from reality that it isn't funny.

I was trying hard to stay out of this because I am sick to death of this topic and the people that keep starting it back up with the same arguments... but when you start insulting people who have nothing to do with this topic is when you open the floodgates, buddy. I was indifferent to you before but now you have shown me a side of you that I really don't like nor care to know. You can win your arguments with logic and reason or you can do what it seems you do best: throw out broad-brushed insults and keep repeating the same tired lines over and over. If you are going to argue then argue on topic and quit randomly insulting everyone and anyone you see fit to.

[Skull Leader]

I'll tell you what Keith.... the next time I make a traffic stop and the guy pulls a gun on me, I'll be sure and start singing to him. That's the only way I'll ever make it out alive, right? WRONG. He just put his life contract up for sale and I intend to close it out. How can you possibly sit there and tell me (basically) that if you were standing face-to-face with a guy pointing a gun at you that you wouldn't shoot him? It's either him or you, and you can be damn sure he's going to do his best to insure it's HIM. Just like if I were in that situation (and I have been once now), no questions asked... if I have my way, it's gonna be ME.

You've got issues man... I've always thought so, but I never realized how bad until now. The fanboy outlook on situations like this are nothing... NOTHING compared to the real thing. It's a damn cartoon. Quit worshipping it. Yes, there may always be somebody stronger, but do you sit down and whine? No... YOU GET A BIGGER GUN.

Edited May 30, 2004 by Skull Leader

[Radd]

What we have here is a complete lack of balance. With neither side even trying to understand the other, neither can produce an effective argument.

[bsu legato]

You know....for somebody who claims to hold Macross 7's ideals in such high regard, Keith is sure quick to lash out at anybody who disagrees with him.

I love the smell of hypocricy in the morning.

[Gideon Krieg]

Keith's childish outburst is my fault. His ass may be in a sling over at Robotech.com. because of an argument we had over there. He started bad mouthing America, the President, religious people (called belief in God inane/foolish or silly) which started because I called Macross 7 unrealistic. It then progressed to me bashing Liberals, etc., etc.. You guys get the idea.

He and I have been duking it out over there. However he has no business taking that fight here.

He went too far at Robotech.com and he is going to far here also.

Keith, we do not all agree on politics, religion, or life, so deal with it will you! These threads are not your personal preaching ground.

Like Backstabber at Robotech.com said, take it somewhere else.

If you can't keep up in a debate, then the least you can do is have the curtiousy to accidentally pop yourself while cleaning your loaded gun so someone much more deserving of a life on this planet can use the space you waste on it.

Is this your idea of peace? Is this your idea of a rational comment? Have I ever threatened you Keith? No. Check every post I have made here or anywhere else.

You just wished death upon me mister.

You obviously cannot control your anger.

A truly peaceful person like Jesus Christ, Buddha, Ghandi, Mother Theresa, or the Dhali Lama, would never wish death upon anyone even if they disliked them.

Section III: Never Allowed

#1. No religious or political debates.

If you want to talk politics go to the proper outside forum. Not everyone shares your beliefs. Nothing starts more arguments then these kinds of debates. They have value but they have no value here.

#2. No vulgar text or pictures.

Vulgar language and images will be edited or deleted. A moderator will consider what is vulgar.

#3 No threats of violence or death.

Especially against a fellow poster or a specific person.

Above quote is for Keith's benefit in case he has forgotten.

Agent one, if you are reading this would you kindly explain to Keith that this forum (if I understand the rules here) is not for indirectly threatening the life of someone or dragging the extremely violatile gun control debate into these forums.

I am not going to lower myself to this kind of insane garbage. I only called him Basara Keith Nekki, jokingly. Is that any reason for him to wish I would kill myself. Obviously not.

Nor is it a good reason for him to start bringing politics into this thread. This thread is about "Valkyre Fighting Space Monster" not "Right wing verses Left wing, bitch off!"

Edited May 31, 2004 by Gideon Krieg

[Macross_Fanboy]

TO EACH HIS OWN! I love Macross 7! TOTSUGEKI LOVE HEART!!!!!!!

[azrael]

Keith's childish outburst is my fault. His ass may be in a sling over at Robotech.com. because of an argument we had over there. He started bad mouthing America, the President, religious people (called belief in God inane/foolish or silly) which started because I called Macross 7 unrealistic. It then progressed to me bashing Liberals, etc., etc.. You guys get the idea.

He and I have been duking it out over there. However he has no business taking that fight here.

Great...carry-overs from the RT forum....

He went too far at Robotech.com and he is going to far here also.

Again...carry-over.

Keith,  we do not all agree on politics, religion, or life, so deal with it will you!  These threads are not your personal preaching ground.

Their not yours either.

Like Backstabber at Robotech.com said, take it somewhere else.

He did. He took it here....unfortunately.

Is this your idea of peace?  Is this your idea of a rational comment?  Have I ever threatened you Keith?  No.  Check every post I have made here or anywhere else. 

Rationale goes out the window when emotions run high.

Agent one, if you are reading this would you kindly explain to Keith that this forum (if I understand the rules here) is not for indirectly threatening  the life of someone or dragging the extremely violatile gun control debate into these forums.

No. You do not involve Agent One into the mess between you and Keith. You explain it to him if you understand the rules.

Again, carry-over from the RT forum. Humm, that RT forum seems to be a great place for starting fires.... time to make some barbeque...yummmm

[Gui]

Internet's so small sometimes...

[wolfx]

TO EACH HIS OWN! I love Macross 7! TOTSUGEKI LOVE HEART!!!!!!!

Come on ppl...let's just join hands and sing!!!

*flies out into space with sound-boosted KONIG MONSTER MKII*

"Love will saveeee your heart....yumewo egaku massuguna hitomitashiyo..."

Basara is an idealist. He tried to sing to move a mountain for chrissakes. Leave him alone. If he's annoying you, well yes, I know he is quite annoying (maybe abit is an understatement) . And Keith, let anyone think what they want. You didn't had to lash out like that, though I can see this is some vent up anger since day zero.

[Keith]

Post edited once I realized "JsARCLIGHT" was the one responding to me with the impression that I was saying "anything" to him. My fault for getting too into it & not paying attention to who I was responding too...anyway

OK see now you brought ME back into this stupid topic. Why are you bashing gun owners now? If you ask me you have just stepped on a landmine, punk. I was staying out of this thread but now thanks to your stupid choice of an insult I'm back in. You have actually shown me just how little you actually know about things and how much you think you know about a bunch of made up cartoon nonsense.

I brought "YOU" back into it? Who was even talking to you? I responded to:

"Don't get me wrong, I actually did like most of Macross 7, but like everyone else (well except for Basara Keith Nekki ) I hated Basara and his wimpy crap. Even real life UN peace keepers use tanks, machine guns, and attack helicopters for their own protection if nothing else.

If he's going to egg someone on, he shouldn't be suprised when its recipricated.

Have you ever fought in a real war? No? I thought so. Do you know the truth about armed conflict and death? No? I thought so. All you know about life and death is what you see on TV just like almost everyone else. Have you ever held a gun in your hand, looking out over the horizon as a bunch of hienous crap starts rolling towards you with the intent of killing you and everyone next to you? Us "gun nuts", as you like to call us, know a hell of a lot more about life and death and war and peace than you can ever hope to know because a good number of us where soldiers.

You don't know crap. All you know is what you've been told to point & shoot at. Suffice it to say, don't confuse being stupid enough to put yourself in a life or death situation caused by people who could care less whether you do live or die as an experience that makes you an authority on the world. You've shown just how narroow your view is.

Most of us fought in a few wars here and there and most of us have a lot more responsability and common sence than a lot of other people. Stereotyping all gun owners like you just did makes me want to stereotype you back but I'm not,

Stereotyping people who own guns to fight phantom enemies who may or may not appear....isn't it Stereotyping to own a gun to shoot people who haven't even attacked you?

instead I'm going to focus on this crap-ass show that you hold on high like some sort of life model. Macross 7 from the beginning was slanted with a peace/love/no war angle and the enemies are purposefully written so strong and immune to normal weapons so the whole "love/peace/no war" angle can be exploited. Why don't the normal guns work? Because they never were supposed to.

Alas, somehow i've managed to survive the deeply cutting wound your words have given me, and manage to respond thusly:

"My point specifically was, as was the point of the show, with the ever growing threat of weapons technology, there will eventually become a point when one side is going to vastly outclass the other, that being a strong reason in itself to avoid war & find peaceful solutions."

The writers are so caught up in their message that logic and common sense go right out the window. It is the most common failure of modern storytelling. There is no such thing of a war won by love and peace in reality. Wars are won by people dying in droves for no good reason and the people with the most soldiers left in the end occupying the last piece of land are the winners. People want to see wars won by peace and love because they never happen in real life.

Wars are fought & won by killing droves of pawns because of the inability of the few in power to resolve things themselves. A war won by peace however is one that's never fought, when diplomatic terms are able to resolve a conflict, or those few in power on occasion actually have the foresight to see that a bloody conflict isn't necessary to come to a resolution. Like I said, much more of history's time is covered by peace than it is war.

There is also no such thing as an undefeatable enemy. EVERY enemy can be beaten and killed the question is: how much are you willing to sacrifice to win? Ask the Vietcong about that one after all, they beat the juggernaught of America did they not? Peace and love only wins wars in the movies and on TV, anyone who thinks otherwise is so disconnected from reality that it isn't funny.

That belief is arrogent to say the least. There will always eventually be someone bigger & badder out there. The vietcong won because the war wasn't popular in america. The people couldn't get behind it because we shouldn't have been there in the first place. If the will & support was "really" there to defeat them, we could have easily nuked them & been done with it. You say peace & love doesn't win wars, but common sense & human compassion related to those concepts is what prevented us from truly monsterous attrocities in that "military action." Don't for one minute believe that we couldn't have "won" if we really wanted to.

I was trying hard to stay out of this because I am sick to death of this topic and the people that keep starting it back up with the same arguments... but when you start insulting people who have nothing to do with this topic is when you open the floodgates, buddy. I was indifferent to you before but now you have shown me a side of you that I really don't like nor care to know. You can win your arguments with logic and reason or you can do what it seems you do best: throw out broad-brushed insults and keep repeating the same tired lines over and over. If you are going to argue then argue on topic and quit randomly insulting everyone and anyone you see fit to.

Citizens who have no business owning firearms, firearms that quite often result in needless death's is the insult here.

I'll tell you what Keith.... the next time I make a traffic stop and the guy pulls a gun on me, I'll be sure and start singing to him. That's the only way I'll ever make it out alive, right? WRONG. He just put his life contract up for sale and I intend to close it out. How can you possibly sit there and tell me (basically) that if you were standing face-to-face with a guy pointing a gun at you that you wouldn't shoot him? It's either him or you, and you can be damn sure he's going to do his best to insure it's HIM. Just like if I were in that situation (and I have been once now), no questions asked... if I have my way, it's gonna be ME.

Interesting analogy. However a more direct one would be that once a gun was at your head (as likely would be the case in most situations). Would you fumble around for a gun and most definately get shot, or would you do what it took to survive until you could (hopefully) get into a more favorable circumstance. I'm not telling you to sing at anybody, as none of us has a comfy pin-point barrier protected VF-19. I'm just trying to figure out where you get off claiming that you'll recipricate force with force when in most situations, the option isn't even there. You can play high & mighty here saying you'll shoot whoever threaten's your life, but what are you going to do when you don't have the option of threatening theirs? Even then, can you safely say deadly force is necessary in all situtaions? What do you think would happen if that gun pulled on you was a fake? If you shot that person, "you" would be the one to go to jail for murder.

You've got issues man... I've always thought so, but I never realized how bad until now. The fanboy outlook on situations like this are nothing... NOTHING compared to the real thing. It's a damn cartoon. Quit worshipping it. Yes, there may always be somebody stronger, but do you sit down and whine? No... YOU GET A BIGGER GUN.

Fanboy outlook my ass. I can just as easily say its nice & fine to enjoy a fictional war setting. But to enjoy the mass killing of others in real life is sick & twisted. Wars aren't glorious with one side alway triumping over the other, rare are the "hero's" who don't randomly die in battle no matter how skilled they are, and the good guys don't always win, nor are "we" alwasy the good guys. That too is a cartoon. When you get a bigger gun, your "enemy" will do so in turn, until both sides die due to mass stupidity.

You know....for somebody who claims to hold Macross 7's ideals in such high regard, Keith is sure quick to lash out at anybody who disagrees with him.

I love the smell of hypocricy in the morning.

What hypocracy is there? I use my words, I don't go hunt people down & beat them senseless. I'm not the first one to illude to someone going & shooting themselves on these boards, & I'm sure I won't be the last either. I however don't see how you can accuse me of "not" upholding my ideals when all I've used are my apparently "dangerous" words.

Keith's childish outburst is my fault. His ass may be in a sling over at Robotech.com. because of an argument we had over there. He started bad mouthing America, the President, religious people (called belief in God inane/foolish or silly) which started because I called Macross 7 unrealistic. It then progressed to me bashing Liberals, etc., etc.. You guys get the idea.

Ass in a sling? Aside from your rather "skewed" rememberence of past discussions, you also put yourself in far too high a regard. My "outburst" as you call it is in specific response to your dragged over from the other board "jab" at me. If you don't want it, don't ask for it. it's also rather up for interpretation as to "who" bad mouthed america, & the president first, as you're the one who started (and unpromptedly at that) going off on various political parties, spewing your own brand of bizarre political rhertic, etc first.

He and I have been duking it out over there. However he has no business taking that fight here.

In order to "duke" it out, one must exchange blows. And while your arguiments did blow, you were constantly inable to make any attempt at backing up your statements once I shot them down.

He went too far at Robotech.com and he is going to far here also.

Too far? I believe "you" were the one warned, not I. As it stands, absolutely nothing has been said to be by the mods.

Keith, we do not all agree on politics, religion, or life, so deal with it will you! These threads are not your personal preaching ground.

It's a good thing I haven't preached, only responded to your rhetoric which you continue to abandon in favor of these childish persoanl attacks.

Like Backstabber at Robotech.com said, take it somewhere else.

Your the one who brought it.

Is this your idea of peace? Is this your idea of a rational comment? Have I ever threatened you Keith? No. Check every post I have made here or anywhere else.

Yes, it is. Words are just that, words. If you can't even handle those, then you obviously don't have the tools to cope with much. As for threats on my life, I never threatened your life, I just made a suggestion. And even then, I never implied any action on my part. I've done no more than you have, though its nice you find my words to be so powerful.

You just wished death upon me mister.

Incorrect, "wishing" death upon you would be something to the effect of "I wish you'd get hit by a bus." Threatening your life would be "I'm going to kill you this way or that." These things I have not done. You sir are paranoid.

You obviously cannot control your anger.

I can't? What angry act have I made upon you? Hell, what angery intent was there in the statement I made? All a matter of your own paranoid perception. Besides which, I'm not the manic gun nut who promotes killing anyone weaker than themselves.

A truly peaceful person like Jesus Christ, Buddha, Ghandi, Mother Theresa, or the Dhali Lama, would never wish death upon anyone even if they disliked them.

Nor have I wished death upon you. Again, all a matter of your own personal paranoia. How many threats include the word "curtiousy."

#3 No threats of violence or death.

Especially against a fellow poster or a specific person.

And again, no threat was made upon you.

Above quote is for Keith's benefit in case he has forgotten.

I suggest you re-read it for yourself. Hell, let's quote it one last time shall we?

If you can't keep up in a debate, then the least you can do is have the curtiousy to accidentally pop yourself while cleaning your loaded gun so someone much more deserving of a life on this planet can use the space you waste on it.

Again, where's the threat? Where did I tell you to do anything? Where did I imply my non-existent intent to kill you? Just which word scared you the most??? Last time I checked, calling someone a waste of space was "not" a voilation of guidlines.

Agent one, if you are reading this would you kindly explain to Keith that this forum (if I understand the rules here) is not for indirectly threatening the life of someone or dragging the extremely violatile gun control debate into these forums.

Agent one has better things to do than fight your battles for you, he's not your daddy. He & I may dissagree on whatever we dissagree on, but if you're expecting someone to instruct anyone else on curtiousy & kindness in posts, you're looking to the wrong person. Even he'd tell you that.

I am not going to lower myself to this kind of insane garbage. I only called him Basara Keith Nekki, jokingly. Is that any reason for him to wish I would kill myself. Obviously not.

You've been down below that level for a weak talking about how you'd kill a country of pacifists & whatnot. Though your offense at "anyone" wishing death upon another (especially when it never happened) is comedic in itself for one who so dramatically clings to a belief in killing those who oppose you & fighting wars to "stop the enemy."

Nor is it a good reason for him to start bringing politics into this thread. This thread is about "Valkyre Fighting Space Monster" not "Right wing verses Left wing, bitch off!"

I never brought any politics anywhere, I just called you a gun nut, after you called me a pacifist wimp. Fair enough. You're the one talking left & right wing, not me. If you don't want a discussion brought over, don't bring it. If you don't want to have to defend your gun toting beliefs, don't introduce them. If you don't want to tangle with me, then don't whine to everyone else about what you yourself can't handle.

Edited May 31, 2004 by Keith

[Gideon Krieg]

Keith, I am going to say this like I did at Robotech.com.

This site does not belong to us.

We have no right to bring this feud between us here.

I did not bring the feud here, you did. What I posted to Nanashi about you was neither political nor was it a threat or insult. It is obvious you like Basara Nekki. You flying off the handle here and bringing an argument no one here had any idea about was just wrong. Besides it is totally off topic and violates this sites rules.

Now, let me tell everyone here, Keith, that both threads we were bitching on at Robotech.com have been locked down. Steve Yun has made it clear that if either of us post anything political or inflamatory that person who posts is gone. Period. Account terminated.

If you can't keep up in a debate, then the least you can do is have the curtiousy to accidentally pop yourself while cleaning your loaded gun so someone much more deserving of a life on this planet can use the space you waste on it.

Now, I do not have to argue with you about whether or not you wished harm to come to me. That has been posted above for all to see.

I am not going to engage in this "debate" with you any longer Keith.

You violated the rules of this site. It is plain as day. That is not debatable.

I will simply ignore you here also and allow you all the "rope" you need.

If I post here again it will be on subject. As for you Keith, I hope you respect Shawn and Graham enough to do the same.

Edited May 31, 2004 by Gideon Krieg

[Skull Leader]

I'm telling you I would use force to fight force because that's the way it works. Military OR police.

Let me fill you in a little on police policy when it comes to authorization of "lethal force" (at least, as Arkansas state law allows it, and I'm almost %100 certain it's the same in the military). If someone pulls a gun on you or anyone else in the immediate area, use of lethal force is authorized. There is the possibility that they intend to unlawfully end someone's life and they are to be stopped (by ending THEIR life if need be). At any point in time that the officer feels like his or someone elses life may be in danger, they are authorized to shoot. In the case of a fake gun, if it looks real enough from the distance the officer is standing, the authorization stands. It doesn't matter and you have no way of knowing. Yes, there will be extensive investigations on situations like that, but %95 of the time, the officer is off the hook. Sure, argue the possibility, but it could be that someday an officer (or soldier for that matter) might save your whining ass because you didn't know well enough to defend yourself (at home OR on the street... concealed carry permits are easy enough to obtain)... if it was on my beat? Considering the way you're acting, I'd consider just looking the other way if it weren't for oaths I've taken.

You talk of owning firearms to defend against "phantom enemies" that may appear or not... would you take that chance? If you knew owning a gun might save your spouse's or children's someday, doesn't that mean something?

How can you sit there and criticize a veteran for "not knowing crap"??? Not everyone is a mindless drone that knows only what they are told you know... My grandfather went to Vietnam no less than 6 times. He knew it was a losing battle, but he believed in the cause of providing democracy to a nation torn by civil war... and regardless of what you or I think... HE thought it was worth going over there for. He was only required to go once... he VOLUNTEERED to go the other times. He was very well connected to the reasons for being there. (this, of course, discounts government conspiracy theories, which hold no place in this argument)

You've said one thing right his whole conversation. The day may come when we need to seek out a peaceful alternative to a violent conflict. However what you've yet to see is that violent conflicts are very much a part of our lives and they aren't going anywhere soon. It is very much in our nature to fight (if need be) to defend or promote ideals in which we believe. What you propose isn't going to happen anytime soon (if ever), so it is.. again, a FANTASY.

Edited May 31, 2004 by Skull Leader

[trueblueeyes]

Can somone please give Keith back his former "Don't listen to me.. member title. I think it fits rather well....

[Skull Leader]

Can somone please give Keith back his former "Don't listen to me.. member title. I think it fits rather well....

amen.

I'd also make a plea to the moderators to possibly close this topic before it gets any further out of hand

[Isamu Atreides 86]

Can somone please give Keith back his former "Don't listen to me.. member title.  I think it fits rather well....

amen.

I'd also make a plea to the moderators to possibly close this topic before it gets any further out of hand

good ideas from both of yall!!

[Macross_Fanboy]

TO EACH HIS OWN!  I love Macross 7!  TOTSUGEKI LOVE HEART!!!!!!! 

Come on ppl...let's just join hands and sing!!!

*flies out into space with sound-boosted KONIG MONSTER MKII*

"Love will saveeee your heart....yumewo egaku massuguna hitomitashiyo..."

THAT'S THE SPIRIT! Anyways, I read the thread at RT.com, I knew that Keith is Totsugekibomber7 since I first saw his "super" posts. Wow, what an interesting read, it tore me away from my stock project and the battle on the fields of Pellenore!

[Graham]

Can somone please give Keith back his former "Don't listen to me.. member title.  I think it fits rather well....

amen.

I'd also make a plea to the moderators to possibly close this topic before it gets any further out of hand

The problem is, as soon as we close one 'let's bash Macross 7' topic, another one springs up almost immediately to take it's place and the whoe cycle starts all over again.

Graham

[azrael]

The problem is, as soon as we close one 'let's bash Macross 7' topic, another one springs up almost immediately to take it's place and the whoe cycle starts all over again.

How true and unfortunate for us.....

What we have here is a complete lack of balance. With neither side even trying to understand the other, neither can produce an effective argument.

Didn't know that they wanted to understand each other in the first place.

[wolfx]

The problem is, as soon as we close one 'let's bash Macross 7' topic, another one springs up almost immediately to take it's place and the whoe cycle starts all over again.

How true and unfortunate for us.....

What we have here is a complete lack of balance. With neither side even trying to understand the other, neither can produce an effective argument.

Didn't know that they wanted to understand each other in the first place.

Just make it a forum rule:

Rule #101: If you ever talk bad about Macross 7, you will be banned for inciting a sensitive topic.

[Radd]

What we have here is a complete lack of balance. With neither side even trying to understand the other, neither can produce an effective argument.

Didn't know that they wanted to understand each other in the first place.

Unfortunately I don't think either side will come away with anything but frustration.

[CoryHolmes]

The really sad part is that automatic bashing-response is what makes it so hard for those of us that want to seriously and maturely discuss the pros and cons of Macross 7. The bashers come in, start a massive and personal flame war, getting the topic closed before the rest of us have finished with it.

[wolfx]

The really sad part is that automatic bashing-response is what makes it so hard for those of us that want to seriously and maturely discuss the pros and cons of Macross 7. The bashers come in, start a massive and personal flame war, getting the topic closed before the rest of us have finished with it.

That's usually the case.

[trueblueeyes]

The really sad part is that automatic bashing-response is what makes it so hard for those of us that want to seriously and maturely discuss the pros and cons of Macross 7. The bashers come in, start a massive and personal flame war, getting the topic closed before the rest of us have finished with it.

Guilty as charged. Although I actually like Macross 7 quite a bit...almost as much as I like SDF Macross & DYRL. The Nightmare is my second favorite Macross mecha, right behind the VF-4.

I know that I shoudn't have attacked Keith. It is just that his some of his statements frustrated me quite a bit. Mainly his inferrence that anyone who is a soldier is just an ignorant tool. I take offense to that especially today on Memorial Day. A day that my father who was in Vietnam is haunted with memories, and a day that my mother looks just a little sadder for thinking about the father she never knew who was killed on some island in the Pacific during WWII. A day to think about all the young soldiers who have lost their life in Iraq, which is infinietly sad...no matter your political feelings.

Of course peace is always preferable to war. Always. Even my father who was a Vietnam vet and returned to start a long career in law enforcement is most proud of the fact that he never once had to use his firearm while on duty as an officer. Figure that...a gun toting tool who was proud to have not had to harm even one person in his career in law enforcement. Boggles the mind eh? I'm glad we have soldiers and weapons of war on our side. I've even happier when we don't have to use them. Remember the phrase that defined Teddy Roosevelt's political strategy? : "Walk softly, and carry a big stick"

I would say to Keith to be glad that there were those who were willing to use weapons and to fight and die so that we would have the freedom to argue about these things on a messageboard. I do apologize to all for helping to de-rail this thread. Just needed to say these things.

Now I a really stupid question that has been bothering me about the

VF-17's gunpod and operation in normal gravity. We see it shooting out of the leg in space to be caught by the hands, which would seem to be easier in zero gravity. What about atmosphere? Seems it would be much more difficult for some pilots to perform this maneuver successfully in atmosphere. Could the compartment simply be opened to remove the gunpod? Or would it just use the arm lasers? Enquiring minds want to know.

[bsu legato]

What hypocracy is there?

Do you not understand the word, or are you just being argumentitive?

hypocrisy

n 1: an expression of agreement that is not supported by real conviction [syn: lip service] 2: insincerity by virtue of pretending to have qualities or beliefs that you do not really have

ie, the self proclaimed love-conquers-all pacifist who wishes somebody would shoot themself in order to shut them up.

Try to keep up with the rest of the class here, Keith. It's not like I'm speaking latin. This is fundamental 10th grade english here.

[Skull Leader]

Melissa,

I believe the gun could be spring loaded (a very powerful spring), or possibly a light rail-gun-type dispenser could shoot it out. Possibly even steam driven (the pictures in my TIAS book show lots of steam around the gun as it shoots out)

[Gideon Krieg]

I believe the gun could be spring loaded (a very powerful spring), or possibly a light rail-gun-type dispenser could shoot it out. Possibly even steam driven (the pictures in my TIAS book show lots of steam around the gun as it shoots out)

I see what you mean Skull Leader. If you are referring to the picture on page 123 of the "This is Animation Series Macross 7 Animation Materials" book.

It would appear to be some sort of compressed air (possibly from the nuclear turbines) or steam. I checked Egan Loo's Macross Compendium. It lists the storage compartment but does not address how the gun pod is ejected in a gravity well.

Most likely falls under the A (Anime magic) factor.

[Agent ONE]

Can somone please give Keith back his former "Don't listen to me.. member title.  I think it fits rather well....

amen.

I'd also make a plea to the moderators to possibly close this topic before it gets any further out of hand

Keith,

No one listens to you on this board, at least as the long time members, so other than n00bies you only re-affirm to the membership that you are 100% worthless.

You are just grabbing at a whole lotta nuthin' trying to make some kind of inflamatory case for M7 and its unrealisitc hippie outlook.

You aren't qualified to make any comments about war (as you havent seen it) OR peace (because you insight more fights on MW than anyone) because you don't know jack crap about it.

Tell me is your head filled with human feces, or dog feces?

[JsARCLIGHT]

To the honor of those that have asked me not to reply to Keith lest a flame war start I will only say this to him:

Keith you and I have lived totally different lives. I served my country, so did my father, my father's father, my fiancee and many people I know. The military is in my blood. I joined to serve my country, to fight in the place of those who could not fight for themselves for this land and what it stands for. I left the military for the reasons you mention and now persue a life of art and peace, but I still respect those in uniform for who they are and what they stand for. I saw crap and did things that I question the sanity of to this day but it does not make me or other soldiers mindless killers or robots for the use of war. And yes, I own guns but they are as a hobby and not because I am paranoid or delusional or craving death. That is a common stereotype of gun owners. No man wants to kill another man but in some occasions there come times when it is inevitable. Kill or be killed. You can have all the peace and love and hope in the world on your side but the evil of others will always wipe you out unless you ready a good defence. There are many people in this world that only understand violence, death and conquest... they will not talk to you or bargain with you or they will use your perceived weakness to their advantage. The Hitlers, Stalins, Pol Pots and other evils of the world only understand force and force must be met with force, not words.

I cannot understand your position just as you cannot understand mine because we have seen different things and lived different lives. I got into this because you threw out politically charged insults that others like myself have issue with, not just the person you are trying to insult. Everyone will listen to you more if quit with the name calling, threats and aggressive posture. For one who proports peace you sure have a lot of aggression and anger in your posts. I promise to leave your Macross 7 threads alone from now on if you in turn promise me to cut out the wide based insults and threats. No one threatened you, insulted you or accused you of anything yet you lash out at people left and right. When you lash out and throw insults then you only get what you send out in return.

Now I'll step out of this thread again. I dislike conflict on this board just as much as the other members and I wish people could talk about this Macross 7 topic without all the hate and angst but both sides are guilty and neither wants it to end it seems. Someone has to take the first step in stopping this situation.

Edit: OK, so Agent One beat me to the punch here. I still ask both sides to work something out and tone down the name calling and rhetoric. I don't like arguing on message boards so if someone would step up to the plate and offer an olive branch here as I'm trying to do perhaps we can stem this whole thing from getting worse.

Edited June 1, 2004 by JsARCLIGHT