Valkyire fighting space monster!

[J A Dare]

FACT: Sound does not travel in space. So Sound Force should have used some kind of transmission rather than speakers. (Hey nobody's perfect)

Consider this. When your Significant Other says, "I love you". Are those literal spoken words what makes you feel all warm and tingly inside, or something else which can't be completely explained? To be honest, I don't know how people take "Sound Force" literally. This is sci-fi anime afterall.

Furthermore, I know alot of people have difficulty where M7 quantified (measured) "anima spirita". It's been awhile since I last saw the TV series, (correct me if I'm wrong) but I believe even the M7 scientists couldn't quite understand/explain it. Just as current (real life) research is being done on the human brain, e.g. MRI scans of the brain when a test subject sees photos of various people (strangers, loved ones, etc), then recording differences in brain activity.

I'll be honest, I like the underlying story and concepts in M7. That's why I have no problems for it be Macross "canon". But as with many of you, I do have difficultlies on how it was presented. I'll leave it at that.

edit: Oops! I meant MRI (magnetic resonance imaging).

Edited May 5, 2004 by J A Dare

[Keith]

FACT: Sound does not travel in space. So Sound Force should have used some kind of transmission rather than speakers. (Hey nobody's perfect)

Sound doesn't travel in space in 7 either. The music is transmitted on comm channels, & or with the speaker pods.

FACT: There were many reused battle scenes in various episodes. (What series doesn't reuse old footage to save money  )

Most of it is centered around launching & VF-11's blowing up. As you said, what series doesn't?

[Wicked Ace]

Sound doesn't travel in space in 7 either. The music is transmitted on comm channels, & or with the speaker pods.

OK, your explanation is quite acceptable. Comm channels and speaker pods fired into enemy fighters, OK. What is ridiculous to me is the speakers built into the "Fire Valkyrie" and "Sound Booster." As I've stated before, I'd accept this if M7 would go the extra mile and outfit Basara's -19 with gold teeth.

[Radd]

I've always seen the Sounds Boosters as not literally speakers making sound in space, but transmitters, with speakers for atmospheric use. Meant to overpower enemy broadcasts and force them to listen to the music. Basically, high end electronic warfare equipment.

I think the majority of the 'We Did This Last Week' crowd aren't upset that someone new to the forums is asking or complaining about M7, they're upset that the same people, people who have been on these boards for ages, as making the same arguments back and forth.

As for firing speaker pods at people instead of transmitting? I sincerely believe they were doing both, as the bridge of the Battle 7 was getting audio and video, and they never show Basara scratching Max's paint job.

However, how can you transmit to people that aren't recieving? The enemy could be running silent for all you know. Or using line of sight laser communication or something. Hance, the speaker pods, to make sure the message gets across.

[Sundown]

FACT: Sound does not travel in space. So Sound Force should have used some kind of transmission rather than speakers. (Hey nobody's perfect)

Consider this. When your Significant Other says, "I love you". Are those literal spoken words what makes you feel all warm and tingly inside, or something else which can't be completely explained? To be honest, I don't know how people take "Sound Force" literally. This is sci-fi anime afterall.

Still doesn't change the fact that if your SO says "I love you" in a vacuum, you wouldn't hear or feel much of anything.

-Al

[Impreszive]

well. you'd be real cold.

[J A Dare]

Still doesn't change the fact that if your SO says "I love you" in a vacuum, you wouldn't hear or feel much of anything. 

I like to think when I'm halfway around the world, if my SO is thinking about me, she's sending me good vibes.

Edited May 6, 2004 by J A Dare

[Aegis!]

mmmm...10 pages. I don´t need to read the whole thread to deduce this has generated YET ANOTHER flame war , I just have to look at the litle and see if there´s a M7 on it.

I can´t believe the mods haven´t banned M7 altogether from this site. It´s has been proved time after time that M7 thread do nothing but generate flame wars with a heavy lack on constructive debate.

M7 threads should be prohibited in this site period. It´s time we learn our lesson and stop this vicious cicle.

Though , now that I think of it , the existence of this kind of threads keeps trouble making members from derailing other threads like YF-19 vs YF-22 or M0 threads.

mmmm...I´m confused , should we keep the troublemakers entertained on threads like this forever or should we stop the chaos ?

[CoryHolmes]

mmmm...I´m confused , should we keep the troublemakers entertained on threads like this forever or should we stop the chaos ?

Nah, keep the M7 threads around. If anything, it lets some of us who want to logically discuss the pros and cons of that show, though we have to dodge through the minefield of the "troublemakers" as you so colourfully term it.

Besides, what else would we use to fill the hate-vaccuum? Anti-Robotech threads with nothing but pages and pages of "I hate it, kill kill kill!"?

... oh, wait.

... nevermind.

[Gideon Krieg]

Hmmm, looks like a genuine debate/discussion on the sound "speaker" boosters. Hope you all don't mind if the newbie takes a crack at it.

While examining the pics of the speaker boosters in Hobby Japan #12, from 1995, pages 58 and 59. A thought crossed my mind. Perhaps these are radio transmitters of somekind. If you aimed them at an area or a specific target (or group of targets) it is possible that this radio/sonic device could use the hull of a mecha or spacecraft as the speaker. All the hull has to do is vibrate. Like an invisible string from one can to another can. Shock waves do travel in space. So if a wave of particles were "Shot" at an opponent the impact will cause a vibration on the spacecraft and sound will be heard inside. Granted you could insulate your ship. Kind of reminds me of one of the old Macross games. I believe there was one that had Kamjin telling the Neld fleet (I think) about some way to defend against the Minmei Attack. I know it is a bit off subject, but the principle may be the same.

Oh, by the way, Robotech may be considered the work of the Devil now, but it did introduce many of us old timers to Macross. For that it is to be commended.

Waits to be tarred and feathered.

Edited May 6, 2004 by Gideon Krieg

[RichterX]

I thought the sound boosters were suppose to transform the sound energy into spiritia

[wolfx]

I thought the sound boosters were suppose to transform the sound energy into spiritia

Not quite.....sound energy IS spiritia. The sound boosters are not amplifying sounds like a speaker....but amplifying Basara/Mylene's sound energy and directing them to a target(s). I believe you don't have to technically SING to power up the Spiritia, (as everybody has spiritia, just not as powerful as others). Its just that for Basara, the action of singing powers his will (hence spiritia). For Gamlin, its fighting to protect others.

[azrael]

I think the majority of the 'We Did This Last Week' crowd aren't upset that someone new to the forums is asking or complaining about M7, they're upset that the same people, people who have been on these boards for ages, as making the same arguments back and forth.

Ummm...hai.

[Druna Skass]

Its just that for Basara, the action of singing powers his will (hence spiritia). For Gamlin, its fighting to protect others.

So for someone like Kamjin it would be going on a rampage?

[RichterX]

Its just that for Basara, the action of singing powers his will (hence spiritia). For Gamlin, its fighting to protect others.

So for someone like Kamjin it would be going on a rampage?

I guess so... didn't he after all liked doing "culture" with Laplamiz?

[Radd]

I thought the sound boosters were suppose to transform the sound energy into spiritia

Not quite.....sound energy IS spiritia. The sound boosters are not amplifying sounds like a speaker....but amplifying Basara/Mylene's sound energy and directing them to a target(s). I believe you don't have to technically SING to power up the Spiritia, (as everybody has spiritia, just not as powerful as others). Its just that for Basara, the action of singing powers his will (hence spiritia). For Gamlin, its fighting to protect others.

My take on it is that 'spiritua' is a word for the energy you feel when doing something you are particularly passionate about. It's not some quantifiable form of energy, nor some mystical power.

As for how powerful someone's "spiritua" is, it really depends on the individual. How strong an individual's passion and willpower is.

As for the flashing lights of "spiritua" we see in the series:

I've always seen the light emitted from Basara and Mylene and Sound Force in general being an embellishment, much like hearing sound in space battles.

It's my belief that the boosters aren't amplifying that power, they really are just electronic warfare equipment, but they get Soundforce's songs to the target, and in doing so it's just a matter of whether or not the target is moved by Basara's, Mylene's whoever's songs, and how they react. Even in the series, not all the characters react in the same way. Gigil pretty much ignores it for a good part of the series, Gavil isn't able to handle the feelings the he gets from listening, it's completely alien to him, so he thrashes about and runs away. Sivil isn't able to handle them for the same reasons, but she's very curious so she keeps coming back, we see similar reactions to Earth culture by the Zentradi in SDF and DYRL?, except the Protodevlin are energy beings that feed off this energy, and over the course of the series discover that people can regenerate this energy, and further into the story that they themselves can create it on their own instead of sapping it from others.

[Keith]

OK, your explanation is quite acceptable. Comm channels and speaker pods fired into enemy fighters, OK. What is ridiculous to me is the speakers built into the "Fire Valkyrie" and "Sound Booster." As I've stated before, I'd accept this if M7 would go the extra mile and outfit Basara's -19 with gold teeth.

The speakers build into the Valkyries are for atmospheric conditions (inside City 7, on a planet, etc), and are only used under those circumstances. The Sound Boosters however aren't speakers at all. The only reason they're called "Sound Boosters," is because Chiba dubbed the phenomenon as "Song Energy," when it doesn't have anything to do with singing whatsoever. Their full function is to further amplify the Spiritia of sound force, and as others have said, channel it towards a specific area. The Sound Booster works directly in conjunction with the energy amplifying vest thingy (don't recall the name) again to further amplify the power being created.

As for Spiritia, it's just Kawamori's word for life force, soul energy, ki, etc. Anima Spiritia specifically being the type generated when someone is really passionate about what they're doing. As I've said before, Sound Force are Kawamori's equivilent of Newtypes. Consider the Sound Boosters to serve a similar purpose to the psycommu.

Edited May 6, 2004 by Keith

[Skull Leader]

that's probably the best I've ever heard it explained... don't know why I didn't think of that comparison. Perhaps because it isn't employed in the same fashion (and seems to take a great deal more effort to achieve)

[RichterX]

Gigil pretty much ignores it for a good part of the series, Gavil isn't able to handle the feelings the he gets from listening, it's completely alien to him, so he thrashes about and runs away. Sivil isn't able to handle them for the same reasons, but she's very curious so she keeps coming back, we see similar reactions to Earth culture by the Zentradi in SDF and DYRL?, except the Protodevlin are energy beings that feed off this energy, and over the course of the series discover that people can regenerate this energy, and further into the story that they themselves can create it on their own instead of sapping it from others.

Gigil ignored the song of Basara probably because the human body he was using was acting as a filter for the anima spiritia.

Zentradi suffered of culture shock in the serie and adapted themselve to human culture

in the movie they were also suffering of culture shock but in the last battle Minmay's song "activited" the culture that was still coded in their genes...

Kind of the first time I arrive to Texas and went into a Walmart...

[Beware of Blast]

The speakers build into the Valkyries are for atmospheric conditions (inside City 7, on a planet, etc), and are only used under those circumstances. The Sound Boosters however aren't speakers at all. The only reason they're called "Sound Boosters," is because Chiba dubbed the phenomenon as "Song Energy," when it doesn't have anything to do with singing whatsoever. Their full function is to further amplify the Spiritia of sound force, and as others have said, channel it towards a specific area. The Sound Booster works directly in conjunction with the energy amplifying vest thingy (don't recall the name) again to further amplify the power being created.

As for Spiritia, it's just Kawamori's word for life force, soul energy, ki, etc. Anima Spiritia specifically being the type generated when someone is really passionate about what they're doing. As I've said before, Sound Force are Kawamori's equivilent of Newtypes. Consider the Sound Boosters to serve a similar purpose to the psycommu.

As perfect (imho) as M7 is, I think there is one very strange plot hole though... since Gigil can generate ALOT of Spiritia with Sivil's presence, I wonder why the Protodevlins had to go thru the trouble to wage war on the humans; but not survive on him instead.

[wolfx]

Its just that for Basara, the action of singing powers his will (hence spiritia). For Gamlin, its fighting to protect others.

So for someone like Kamjin it would be going on a rampage?

Why not? After all, the Protodeviln prey on the Zentraedi as well (poor Exeldor is scared stiff by them) ...and their presence apparently make Zentran rage surface, hence making the Zentraedi's spiritua grow and gives the Protodeviln more to harvest.

As perfect (imho) as M7 is, I think there is one very strange plot hole though... since Gigil can generate ALOT of Spiritia with Sivil's presence, I wonder why the Protodevlins had to go thru the trouble to wage war on the humans; but not survive on him instead

Gigil only exibited enormous spiritia during his final moments, which was like his "desperation move". He probably wasn't as passionate about protecting Sivil as Basara was to singing his songs of peace.

[RichterX]

Gigil's "FATALITY" was cool he took Valgo with him...

[Druna Skass]

Anima Spiritia specifically being the type generated when someone is really passionate about what they're doing.

Now can this be anything, positive or negative, as long are their really passionate about it?

[wolfx]

Anima Spiritia specifically being the type generated when someone is really passionate about what they're doing.

Now can this be anything, positive or negative, as long are their really passionate about it?

Spiritia can be generated positively or negatively.

But anima spiritia however is not state of spiritia, but a type.....meaning only some people have it. Through the show, it was discovered in the temple that the protodeviln were defeated by a person, Anima Spiritia. The history describes Anima Spiritia as a person, meaning only certain individuals were endowed with this power. Newtype-ish if you will.

In case you didn't know, only Basara was considered to have anima spiritia in M7. Mylene and soundforce although they have higher than the average dude's spiritia, they weren't anima spiritia.

[Beware of Blast]

Gigil only exibited enormous spiritia during his final moments, which was like his "desperation move". He probably wasn't as passionate about protecting Sivil as Basara was to singing his songs of peace.

Nope. Gigil's Spiritia level was all time high when it comes to Sivil. He'd be bursting at the seams if she gave him the time of day.

Sivil (generates a form of Anima Spiritia) = Gigil (motto Spiritia!!!!!)

[Radd]

Gigil pretty much ignores it for a good part of the series, Gavil isn't able to handle the feelings the he gets from listening, it's completely alien to him, so he thrashes about and runs away. Sivil isn't able to handle them for the same reasons, but she's very curious so she keeps coming back, we see similar reactions to Earth culture by the Zentradi in SDF and DYRL?, except the Protodevlin are energy beings that feed off this energy, and over the course of the series discover that people can regenerate this energy, and further into the story that they themselves can create it on their own instead of sapping it from others.

Gigil ignored the song of Basara probably because the human body he was using was acting as a filter for the anima spiritia.

Zentradi suffered of culture shock in the serie and adapted themselve to human culture

in the movie they were also suffering of culture shock but in the last battle Minmay's song "activited" the culture that was still coded in their genes...

Kind of the first time I arrive to Texas and went into a Walmart...

Gigil? Yeah, I considered that too. It's a probability. Still, being able to ignore the feelings a person's body has when enjoying a song they like made him able to stick around Basara long enough for it to work on another, more concious, level more quickly than any of the other Protodevlin.

The Zentradi? Ask yourself, what is culture shock? What turned the Zentradi into gibbering fools around Minmay? A big part of that was emotions that were alien to them due to their environment. The same goes for the Protodevlin. Don't tell me there was no culture shock there. We see a lot of the same reactions, for very similar reasons.

In the movie? It could be interpreted that way, but that's just another way of saying culture shock, but trying to sound scientific while you do it.

[Agent ONE]

Anima Spiritia specifically being the type generated when someone is really passionate about what they're doing.

Now can this be anything, positive or negative, as long are their really passionate about it?

Wow, if thats the case, I produce Anima Spiritia energy when I piss on M7... HAHAHAHA, the Irony gives me an erection.

[Beware of Blast]

Anima Spiritia specifically being the type generated when someone is really passionate about what they're doing.

Now can this be anything, positive or negative, as long are their really passionate about it?

Wow, if thats the case, I produce Anima Spiritia energy when I piss on M7... HAHAHAHA, the Irony gives me an erection.

::Sends Roger after Agent ONE:: Muhuhahahahaa!!!

[Beware of Blast]

So fearsome is Roger, no one dared to ask for an intro huh?

Poor Agent ONE.

Edited May 6, 2004 by Beware of Blast

[Sundown]

My take on it is that 'spiritua' is a word for the energy you feel when doing something you are particularly passionate about. It's not some quantifiable form of energy, nor some mystical power.

But don't we see "Spiritia" measured, quantified, transferred, and stored in the series itself? Those episodes do portray Spiritia as a sort of energy that does have quantity, whether it be mystical, life force, or what not.

There's quite a lot to explain away or ignore within M7 to hold the stance that Spiritia *isn't* a quantifiable energy, especially when many segments in M7 go out of their way to portray it as just that. I'm kind of wondering if I've been watching the wrong episodes, or just not getting it... since the concept of Spiritia as quantifiable energy seems to be made pretty prominant and pretty clear.

If Spiritia really isn't what the goodly chunks of the series portray it as-- quantifiable energy-- and it's not supposed to be considered such, even though it's shown time and time again as just that... then again, that points to possible Bad Storytelling. Or me being a clueless nit.

It's my belief that the boosters aren't amplifying that power, they really are just electronic warfare equipment, but they get Soundforce's songs to the target, and in doing so it's just a matter of whether or not the target is moved by Basara's,

Hrm, Keith seems to explain that the Sound Boosters amplify and channel Spiritia Energy, and that's exactly what the series itself says about them. Given Keith's dedication to, knowledge of, and passion for M7, I think I'm inclined to agree with him... which of course turns Spiritia into energy that is amplifiable, channelable, and quantifiable. Exactly as the series portrays... as opposed to some nebulous life-happy-energy-Force that's ever only felt, with no pseudo-scientific and measurable root cause.

-Al

Edited May 7, 2004 by Sundown

[Neova]

You guys make this Anima Spiritia sound like endorphins or adrenalin. I guess I need to sit down and watch M7 for myself.

[macplus]

You guys make this Anima Spiritia sound like endorphins or adrenalin. I guess I need to sit down and watch M7 for myself.

I sugest you watch that show with the TV off... it sucks big time!

[J A Dare]

You guys make this Anima Spiritia sound like endorphins or adrenalin. I guess I need to sit down and watch M7 for myself.

Not quite, but close. Research has shown that endorphins and adrenalin are highten when people are scared, frightened, excited, in love, etc. But what research has not shown is "why" or "what triggers" those biological/chemical processes. IMHO, it's closer to electroencephalographic (EEG; in layman's terms: "brainwaves"), which is measurable, quantifiable, and can be amplified. EEG is energy (e.g. also light, matter, heat, etc are all forms of energy). And any of you who are familiar with science/physics/engineering, you know energy can neither be destroyed nor created, but rather, transformed.

[Gideon Krieg]

I sugest you watch that show with the TV off...  it sucks big time

Oh bloody hell! Here we go again!!

Look guys I have not read the other M7 threads and I am getting sick of this!

But don't we see "Spiritia" measured, quantified, transferred, and stored in the series itself? Those episodes do portray Spiritia as a sort of energy that does have quantity, whether it be mystical, life force, or what not.

There's quite a lot to explain away or ignore within M7 to hold the stance that Spiritia *isn't* a quantifiable energy, especially when many segments in M7 go out of their way to portray it as just that. I'm kind of wondering if I've been watching the wrong episodes, or just not getting it... since the concept of Spiritia as quantifiable energy seems to be made pretty prominant and pretty clear.

If Spiritia really isn't what the goodly chunks of the series portray it as-- quantifiable energy-- and it's not supposed to be considered such, even though it's shown time and time again as just that... then again, that points to possible Bad Storytelling. Or me being a clueless nit.

Been a while since I have seen the series (I may watch it again......cough, cough.......if I dare. ) but I do remember one episode (or more, it is kind of a blurr) mentioning the boosters as spiritia amplifiers. If I remember correctly that was late in the series. Anyway, I am forced to agree with Sundown, spiritia is somekind of quantifiable energy. Like the electromagnetic field that our bodies generate or life force or actual spirit energy. Take your pick, they all fit in with Science Fiction.

[wolfx]

Ever wondered if William Hung has Anima Spiritia? He'd probabaly cause more than culture shock to the Zentraedi.