Shin's F-14 isn't what I thought it was.

[David Hingtgen]

Well, I was going through some pics in my Macross folder and realized I hadn't taken a good look at Shin's F-14 since before M0 Ep1 actually came out. Anyways, looking closely, I realized it is AMAZINGLY close to a Fujimi F-14D prototype kit. It is *so* close to a Fujimi F-14D kit, that I think they actually made the CGI model from that. I mainly believe this because it has the same error(s) that AFAIK has only occured in Fujimi F-14D kits, and no other----and that no real F-14 has this combination.

(I've learned a lot about subtle F-14 differences over the past year, with models/books/airshows and what-not). Anyways:

1. Shin's F-14 has a single ECM bump under the glove. This is known as the armpit location for F-14 ECM bumps. However, they never ever come alone, always in pairs. Also, it is "one bump-length" too far forward. F-14D's do not have any in this location at all, and late A's and all B's have two there. And the one Shin's has is in the "wrong" spot for anything. BUT---Fujimi's F-14D kit is like this---a lone bump too far forward. Hmmmmmmmn.

2. While the rear fuselage fairings are more squared than an F-14A's, and it has GE engines, they are still too round and too short for a B/D, and have too short of an afterburner duct. Only one F-14 ever had ones like that---the F-14B prototype, which was later converted into an F-14D prototype. And that is what Fujimi's F-14D kits are based on. (This is why everything I've ever read says the Fuji F-14D is accurate--it has parts for a "new" back end---however, it's not a B/D back end, it's the B/D prototype back end--but nobody but me ever notices)

3. The AMRAAM's are attached to the glove pylon wrong, 45 degrees off. Want to guess what kit has the glove-mounted missiles 45 degrees off? (Hint, starts with "Fuji")

4. You know how Shin's got the cockpit and seats of an F-14A? Guess what style cockpit and seats Fuji mistakenly puts in their F-14D kits?

5. In otherwords--Shin's F-14 is *exactly* like what you get in a Fujimi F-14D kit. Close, but not quite an F-14D---has an A's cockpit, fictional ECM arrangement, and the engines of an F-14B/D prototype, not a "real" F-14B/D.

6. Based on all this, I'm betting they used a Fujimi F-14D kit as *the* reference, and actually intended Shin to have an F-14D. (Unless they actually did want Shin to have a one-off F-14, and knew exactly what the Fujimi kit was---but then why follow it so perfectly, and not just make your own Tomcat?----if you want something unique, don't exactly copy something else no matter how unique it may be)

Edited April 25, 2004 by David Hingtgen

[Shawn]

Amazing analysis!!!

Love this sort of thing!

S

[bsu legato]

Ok, so let's say we all run out and buy Fujimi F14's now. How does the actual kit rate? Is it a relatively new tooling, or is it a dinosaur like Hasegawa's Macross Zero kit?

[Anubis]

Damn, solved that mystery. Great work!

Now the question remains, if it really matters, which version was actually intended for Shin to be flying. I'll just take it as it is. Great analysis.

Edited April 25, 2004 by Anubis

[David Hingtgen]

The Fujimi 1/72 F-14 rocks. I build them instead of the Hase. They are a new, recessed line mold, and very nice. Rubber tires, photo-etched canopy mirrors. (plastic tires also included). Fuji and Hase were in direct competition at that time--they both brought out nice, new 1/72 F-4 and F-14 kits the same year. Fuji's fit MUCH better, and include the best Phoenixes you can buy.(many people buy Fuji F-14's for weapons, and put those on Hase kits). However, the Hase's had slightly more accurate cockpits, and you know how airplane modelers like cockpits, even if you do need a quart of putty to make a Hase fuselage smooth.

Quick Fuji 1/72 F-14 reviews:

The A kits---include early and mid gun vents. Has all late ECM bumps. (Just slice them off if you don't need them--but you'll need them for 1982 and later). The aft "armpit" bump is a little bit off---later kits (mainly F-14D's) include subtly different more correct ones to replace them with. Decals are typical Fuji/Hase style--thick, but useable and nice. Comes with Phoenix decals, always useful. I have a stack of Fuji F-14A kits. (Though I do plan to snag 1 Hase A for the boattail for my Wolfpack kit, as the Fuji doesn't offer the pre-block 75 tail option, but I don't think Hase has the pre-block-75 gunvent---gotta kitbash if you want a 1974/75 Tomcat) Most Fuji kits come with decals for 3 different squadrons. Current releases are Jolly Rogers re-release (also has Black Aces decals, and Swordsmen) and Black Knights. (pretty sure that one should have the new ECM bumps and new forward fuselage for the new gun vents--but you never know, I don't personally have that release)

A+/B kits: so rare you don't really need to bother, basically the D kit minus the chinpod.

Fuji F-14D prototype, red/white scheme. This is what Shin's plane is. Kit is RARE, went for 35+ bucks new. Has new nozzles, and new rear engine fairings. You have to slice off the back end of the original kit (nice scribed lines inside to do so), and install the new "F-14D" back end. But these new parts will not get you a production F-14B/D.

Current Fuji F-14D kits, 2003 Bounty Hunters markings. Includes all the F-14D parts mentioned above, plus the dual chinpod. No D-style cockpit at all. Realizing the prototype has a different back end, the instructions don't have you use the "F-14D prototype" back end parts, and include new, better nozzles. But you still have an A's afterburner duct, and fairing (the fairing is the most visible difference, after the nozzles). Also includes a new left forward fuselage, with late-style gun vents. (Some late A and A+/B kits include this new fuselage as well). Will make a GREAT late F-14A kit, like the Black Knights and Black Lions had. Also a nice source of GE parts, since you get 4 fans, 4 burners, and 4 exhausts per kit (trust me). I use the burners on F-16 kits, since Hase F-16's only have PW burners, even if they give GE nozzles.

Or basically--the Fuji F-14D's are like nearly every other "almost" F-14D kits--new nozzles, but not the engine/fairings themselves. But make the best late F-14A's, since you get a whole new forward fuselage, as opposed to the various "insert" pieces the Hase uses to make the new gun vents.

I myself have a Hase F-14D arriving tomorrow, and am going to see if it's easy enough to use the Hase's back end/cockpit on a Fuji, to see if I can make accurate, well-fitting F-14B/D's. (Due to the "cutting lines" for the prototype F-14D being present in ALL Fuji F-14 kits, it should be very easy to slice the back end off--which is right where the Hase back end should start--and since there is a slight "step" there in the real thing, they need not fit perfectly)

Fuji F-14's fit together very well, and the flaps/slats are much easier to assemble, both up and down.

So...

If you want Shin's F-14, at the moment any Fuji F-14D would be perfect, so long as you cut off the back end of the engines at the obviously scribed line, and use the prototype F-14D back end. (Only the prototype F-14D release says to do this, but all F-14D and even I think some A+/B releases include the parts to do so)

And I will post a nice Hasegawa 1/72 F-14D preview tomorrow too (assuiming UPS is on time), as I'm sure many will be interested in that, since that would also be pretty close to Shin's. (And I know the D kits have some A parts as well--you might be able to make something VERY close to Shin's easily)

PPS---the Fuji's build unlike every other F-14 there is. Most kits have the the actual engine area molded to the big lower fuselage half, with a long "3/4 intake" you attach to the lower fuselage, right where the fan is. Fuji's have the entire intake and engine area together, but split left/right. There is no lower fuselage piece. You have the left glove, left intake, center tunnel, and right glove and intake. And all those separate parts attach to the upper fuselage. But because of this, it FITS. (Though you do need to smooth out the inside of the intake, putty between the nozzle and inflatable wing sweep area, and remove a very visible mounting pin--but that is a lot easier and less work than puttying a Hase intake, engine, nose, and wheel well together IMHO). The forward fuselage is very similar to a Hase, but more of a zig-zag cut.

Edited April 25, 2004 by David Hingtgen

[Angel's Fury]

Amazing analysis!!!

Love this sort of thing!

S

Me too.

[wm cheng]

Hey David, looking forward to your new F-14 analysis. Does the Fujimi kit's wings swing - that's the bugger for me on my Hasegawa kit, you have to choose which position to place them in. Can you include a photo of the Fujimi box (I am interested in the re-issue with the Jolly Rogers decals) do you have a part number for it? Secondly, can you also include the box of the newer Hase F-14D? I might just switch over to Fujimi - never built one before... but you're convincing.

[David Hingtgen]

Fujimi's are designed to be "flaps down" and thus wings forward, but it is very easy to make them flaps/slats up (as opposed to the Hase, where you pretty much need to redesign the flaps if you want them up. Just a few snips and everything's fine, and you can install the "wings swept" parts in the fuselage, and the wings themselves have your standard "gear" to swing together. I plan to make most of mine flaps up.

Current release Fujimi's:

http://www.hlj.com/scripts/hljpage.cgi?FUJ28002 (I saw this one in a local shop a month ago, so I know it's actually "out")

http://www.hlj.com/scripts/hljpage.cgi?FUJ28010 (I bought from HLJ recently)

http://www.hlj.com/scripts/hljpage.cgi?FUJ72152 (might have new-style gunvents, not sure though)

Remember the D isn't quite a D, but great for Shin or a late A! Older releases can be found cheap on Ebay, you can find the Iranian release for 10 bucks--which is great, because that release also comes with Sundowners decals. (But like most JP decals, the white is actually cream)

Also, check this out:

http://www.hlj.com/scripts/hljpage.cgi?FUJ72154 It's the F-14A, with all the later parts (gunvents, new ECM bumps) and a full ground-crew set for a carrier deck diorama.

I will know tomorrow whether my future F-14 fleet with have "converted Fujimi" F-14B/D's, or pure Hase B/D's. (A's will be Fuji, I know that already--especially since I already have bunch)

And my review will include photos of sprues, parts, etc.

[Mechamaniac]

I glossed over the middle of the topic, so I may have missed this...

But, do they make it in 1/48?

[David Hingtgen]

If you're talking about the Fujimi, don't bother, the 1/48 Fujimi F-14's SUCK they're like reboxed Matchbox kits or something with new nozzles.

As for Hasegawa---their 1/72 and 1/48 F-14B/D's are practically scaled-up/down versions of each other. Heck, I think you could swap instructions and nobody would notice, sprues/parts are nearly identical too, I think. Very, very similar, comparing recent Hase F-14's across scales.

Edited April 26, 2004 by David Hingtgen

[ewilen]

Impressive observations, David. I'm wondering, though. It sounds like, of all real world F-14's, Shin's is closest to No. 161867, the sole F-14D prototype that used F110's. Could it be that this particular aircraft had other characteristics of Shin's as well, such as the A-style cockpit, and maybe, just maybe, the oddly-placed ECM bump?

But as for the glove pylon weirdness, it's hard to imagine how that could have come from the prototype--IOW, I'd be surprised if it isn't a pure goof by Fujimi. Let me see if I understand what you mean by 45 degrees off, though. From this picture, it looks like the pylon comes out of the glove at a 45 degree angle, then "splits" down 45 degrees (so pointing straight down) to hold one missile and up 45 degrees (i.e. sideways) to hold the other. While the Fujimi F-14 shown here has the lower "arm" of the pylon simply continuing more or less at the same 45 degree angle instead of going straight down. Is that right?

Are there any pictures of No. 161867 anywhere on the web?

[David Hingtgen]

Actually, I'm talking about 157986. Originally YF-14A #7. Modified with PW F401 engines to be the first F-14B. Red/white paint. Asides from nozzles, looks just like F-14A. (And nozzles look very much like TF30's). Then modified to Super F-14B configuration--same scheme, but now says "Super Tomcat" on tails. Has GE F101 (not a typo) engines. Also has the new "inbetween an A and a production B" rear fuselage and fairings. That's what the Fuji "F-14D" kit is. It was then modified to nigh-full F-14D standard (F110's and all) and flew many tests for that program, and asides from I think the chinpod, was identical to a modern F-14D. It is technically not "F-14D prototype" but rather "F110-powered F-14D test programme plane in F-14B prototype colors". But that plane is sold by both Fuji and Hase as "F-14D prototype". (The Hase kit is correct for that final configuration--but lacks the chinpod, as the real one did--the Fuji kit is that plane in Super F-14B config, with the unique F101 engines and rear fuselage parts)

From what I can find, 157986 has never had under-glove ECM bumps, both F-14B and F-14D config. (Did gain the ECM bump on the boattail as an F-14D). Have no idea where Fuji got the idea for one mounted forward---even on the latest release with markings for a 2003 VF-2 plane, the instructions clearly show to remove the "normal" ECM bumps from the F-14B position, and place a single large one forward! Need pic of glove of true F-14D prototypes. (Though if they followed that, they would have either ended up with F-14A engines, or a TRUE F-14D engine, not F-14B proto)

As for the glove--I actually mean the missile, not the pylon. (The pylon's fine, I just checked--that pic is at a funky angle, the all-white makes it hard to tell) Sparrows on F-14's are mounted with the fins like "+" from head-on, but the kit shows them like "x". Common mistake on F-14 kits, since it "looks right" to have an "x", since where would the upper fins go? Well they go inside the pylon itself, and are mounted like "+". The rear fin however, is just off-set enough that it's actually outside the pylon. But Shin's F-14 carries AMRAAM's like "x". I'm trying to go through pics looking for a real glove-mounted F-14 AMRAAM configuration---but most test pics show them mounted in the forward sparrow wells.

::checks:: Huh, only pic I can find of a pylon-mounted AMRAAM is this: http://www.anft.net/f-14/f14-detail-aim120-01.jpg which looks like it's mounted in "x" configuration. Maybe Shin's F-14 is actually right in that regard!

Must stop now, brain ready to melt (and fingers hurting from thumbing through F-14 books)

Edited April 26, 2004 by David Hingtgen

[Neova]

David,

Great info. Its too bad those Fujima 1/48 kits suck. I thought I've found the easy road to an accurate 1/48 F-14D for Shin. The hunt continues for that elusive Hasegawa 1/48 F-14 D.

[Skull Leader]

Jesus, David

You need to slow down and have a beer or two, or else your head will explode!

I swear you must know F-14s like I know Bass Trombones.... and THAT'S saying something....

[Myersjessee]

Wow....thats impressive.

[ewilen]

Haven't found any pictures of 161867 yet but I did find a few good sources for 157986. This particular aircraft is now in a museum in New York!

http://aeroweb.brooklyn.cuny.edu/museums/ny/isasm/157986.htm

Numerous pictures of it on this Japanese page: http://www.afwing.com/gallery/f14b.htm

Here it is in flight: http://www.anft.net/f-14/f14-photo-grumman-14.htm

(Are the engines different in that picture from the museum display?

Another in-flight pictures, toward the middle of this Spanish page: http://planeta.terra.com.br/educacao/super...omcat/historia/

Still wondering though if 161867 might be (or have been at one time) pretty close to Shin's also. From what I can glean on the web, it seems like may have had F110's at one point but still had an A-style cockpit.

[David Hingtgen]

Well, as it is now, 986 is in yet another configuration. Has the D's chinpod, but still has A's cockpit. Has a D's rear fairings, but has gone all the way back to TF30's. I do believe that's the only F-14 ever to have F110 fairings with PW engines... Or those could be F401's, they are nigh-identical to TF30's---but when it had F401's originally it had A-style fairings, not B/D.

PS--got my Hase F-14D, fiddling with it now. It's scary how many parts there are, I've put together battleships with fewer pieces.

Still, to truly test to see if I can combine a Hase and a Fuji, I will need to slice apart a Fuji. Looks like it SHOULD work at the moment, but I'll have to use the Hase nozzles, despite Fuji's being far superior. (I'm going to try hard to see if I can get them to fit--the Fuji's are better, and much easier to use, but the exterior part of the afterburner duct MUST be Hase to be accurate)

Overall quick comparison (the full reviews will be a new topic):

Hase has more and finer panel lines, and a million itty-bitty rivets engraved. Fuji does not. Hase has far more detailed wheel wells, but this means there's about a dozen parts per gear to assemble, and 4 per well. There are no "wheel wells". There's a font, back, left, right, and top of the well--you build a box, then start putting the struts in. Eventually, you'll have a well, and a gear. Then repeat.

In only slicing off about 4 parts, I've already encountered fit probs in the Hase. (hey, might as well try to use the Fuji nozzles, because the Hase nozzles won't fit the Hase burners very well either! )

The Hase has photoetched instrument panels, canopy rails, and consoles.

Hase has separate Sparrow and Phoenix adaptors for the glove pylons, Fuji is Sparrow-only. (Neither offers Sidewinder adaptors for the lower position--it's not as common as a Phoenix there, but does happen)

Hase's got a fair amount of flash--surprisingly a lot on the B/D-specific sprues, which is surprising since that mold should be "newer" than the overall F-14 parts.

Overall, I've got to say the Hase is more DETAILED, not more ACCURATE. There's simply more detail in the panel engraving, gear wells, cockpit, etc. But the Fuji is utterly flash-free, has 1/20 the sink-holes and ejector marks (a Hase's D nozzles has 6 parts, each with 3 holes to fill--and there's 2 nozzles), and fits much better. The Fuji can open its nose to show the radar, the Hase can open its speedbrakes. Both are designed to have flaps down and wings forward, though both can be made flaps up pretty easily by slicing off the actuators. But only the Fuji has a sweep mechanism when flaps are up--a Hase with flaps up must have the wings back (oversweep I think, not "normal max sweep") and can't move them. (Though I don't think the Fuji can achieve oversweep, but it can sweep them)

If you're talking F-14A's, the Hase is offering options even *I* don't recognize yet, will have to look them up. (Though the non-pitot radome looks really funky). A lot of the options seem to cater to REALLY early F-14's, nothing 1980's or later. No block-70 boattail though, maybe they only include that in an A kit, not a D kit (since no D has that).

Full review to come later! (Though it can't be a FULL review because I don't plan on actually building two Tomcats tonight)

Edited April 26, 2004 by David Hingtgen

[Skull Leader]

Jeez... you mean there's MORE to your review????? wow.....

[David Hingtgen]

Hey, I hadn't even tried the wings or cockpit yet. At the moment, based on how the Hase is(n't) fitting together, as well as the burner duct being too short (F-14B's are 11 inches shorter than the A, but I'm the only one who ever seems to notice) I'm seriously considering doing what I thought about earlier---puttying over the engraving in a Fuji A's burner, using Fuji nozzles, but a Hase fairing. While the length would be slightly inaccurate, it'd be the same inaccruate length as a Hase, with less work. F-14B/D's have nigh-feautureless ducts. The upper half is UTTERLY smooth, the lower half has nothing but itty-bitty rivets. I plan to just putty over the Fuji's "A" engravings, and end up with a totally smooth burner duct. Sand off the fairing, and attach a Hasegawa's fairing. (I swear, the Hase fairing fits on a Fuji better than it does a Hase). Also, the Fuji and Hase cockpit coamings are designed identically, so a Hase "D" cockpit should practically drop in to a Fuji A.

I just need to order a half-dozen sets of sprue N and R from HLJ.... (The Hase F-14D is nothing more than their F-14B with 1 new sprue R and an addendum instruction sheet--you actually get their F-14B Grim Reapers Instruction book, and an extra folded sheet showing the changes needed to make an F-14D Bounty Hunters) (Though they leave out a few--wrong ECM and spine antennas) Full review later!

Edited April 27, 2004 by David Hingtgen

[Skull Leader]

I think I need a cigarette........

Suddenly my meager F-14 knowledge seems feeble and unworthy...... I wouldn't know the difference between an F-14A,B, or D unless the kit box told me so

[David Hingtgen]

And the box is often wrong!

Review up soon, I decided to go pictureless, for I'd need like 50 of them and it'd take hours to write. Also decided to go more "general" than piece-by-piece. I'm 99% decided on what I'm going to do for MY Tomcats, but it's up to the individual on what kits they want to use.

[Nied]

Interesting theory but it doesn't explain how they got the cockpit so acurately wrong. What originally tipped me off about the Shin having an F-14A/B cockpit was the extremely accurate interior shots. It's obvious that they did some extensive research for those shots since you can make out pretty acurate representations of all the gauges in all the right places. They even have Edgar hit the right controlls to deploy the counter measures. I could see them making the mistake of putting the wrong cockpit in their 3-D model but I don't see why they then go through the trouble to give such an acurate inacurate cockpit for the interior shots.

[David Hingtgen]

I thought it did explain it--that plane, and the kit of that plane, has an A cockpit. If they just looked for a good, close-up photo of "whatever style cockpit matches our reference plane" they would have noticed that F-14A cockpits looked a heck of a lot closer than D cockpits.

Also, every F-14 ever stationed in Japan has been an A, so if any of the designers was using personal pics from an airshow or something, he would have had photos of A cockpits.

Unless someone finds a photo of an F-14 with a single ECM bump under the wing, that Fujimi kit is the only "depiction" of an F-14 that matches Shin's (and it does so in so many ways that nothing else does), and it matches it pretty darn closely.

Edited April 27, 2004 by David Hingtgen

[Nied]

The cockpit is so tough to make out from the exterior shots that I doubt they'd put much effort into getting a match. I didn't know they only had As in Japan, that might actually explain things. From the level of detail it looks like they got in there and crawled around in a real thing.

[David Hingtgen]

Well, asides from the seats, the easiest way to tell a D cockpit is "the little box on top of the RIO's console". Only D's have it. It's in the "they won't say what it is" category. It has lights and buttons, and that's about all anybody knows.

[Nied]

Yeah but would you notice it as it wizzed by dodging micro missiles?

[wm cheng]

Hey David, I'd really be interested in your build up of the Hasegawa F-14, since I'd like to tackle that some day. Could you also include pictures - I don't really want a F-14D, I just want a decent VF-84 Jolly Rogers sittin' next to my VF-0S eventually. I just recieved the Verlinden 1/72 cockpit detail set and the black-box seats - I just wanted to compare the two resin seats. I was a bit dissapointed that the Verlinden cockpit detail set did not come with mirrors for the canopy and both sets didn't come with the overhead face curtain pulls. Funny enough the Hasegawa kit's included photo-etched parts did. Oh, well, I don't know if I would use them, since photo-etched parts often seem so 2D and thin. Looking forward to your review with pictures

[newca]

cheng, Fujimi F-14A Jolly Rogers, the No. is 28002 I remember.

http://www.hlj.com/scripts/hljpage.cgi?FUJ28002

and Hasegawa Jolly Rogers reissue

http://www.hlj.com/scripts/hljpage.cgi?HSG00364

Fujimi's 1/48 Tomcat really SUCKS!

http://www.hlj.com/scripts/hljpage.cgi?FUJ33001

2500yen, only for some missiles, pilots and the decal!

btw, to do a late A you need this LAU-138 sidewinder launcher(note Shin's jet doesn't have it)

http://www.anft.net/f-14/f14-detail-lau138.htm

can be found in Hasegawa X72 series. in 1/48 scale, some limited version have resin LAU-138.

Edited April 27, 2004 by newca

[David Hingtgen]

Yup, Hase 1/72 Weapons set 6 and 7 are great sources for later F-14 parts. The LAU-138 rail, LANTIRN pylon adaptor for the glove pylon, LANTIRN pods, and bombracks for the Phoenix pallets. (And the bombs to put on them). A lot of those parts also come in the 1994+ Tamiya 1/32 kit.

wm_cheng: I'll take photos of the Hase seats and cockpit parts (mostly still on the sprues) so you can see what's there. (The D kit still has all the A parts, except for engines). And the Hase that newca linked to is probably the one you want---1/72 new-mold Hase F-14A, with cartograph High-vis Jolly Rogers decals. And I know it's fairly easy to find, much easier than the equivalent Sundowners kit. I'm sure you'd have a wonderful time weathering all 50,000 panel lines. As an A, the Hase has no competition if you want a single really nice Tomcat to build. Just be prepared to take a long time. I still have the basic fuselages taped together, will photo when I can. (I'll tape on the Hase's forward fuse and nose, too, no reason not too)

PS--I think I counted 14 sprues in the Hase, plus the photoetched and clear parts.

PPS--I plan on going out of town tomorrow, but should be back by evening. So I might not reply for a while.

Edited April 27, 2004 by David Hingtgen

[hellohikaru]

That Hase 1/72 F-14A is the one Wmcheng said he purchased IIRC.

Can't wait to see him assemble it.

The amazing Fuji Jolly Roger is definitely to hot to pass. Might just get one to stock up.

[wm cheng]

Yes, I have the Hasegawa re-issue of the Jolly Rogers F-14A - just looking at the sprues I really love it. Plus I got the Verlinden cockpit set and true details resin seats as well. Its just too bad the wings don't swing - I can't decide which way to mount the wings, swept for a sleeker look, or forward displaying all those flaps and slats. I am really looking forward to it... someday. I was just curious about the Fujimi kit. Every picture of it I see seems a little "fat", wide near the rear end - I don't know if its just a wide angle lens (you know it puts on 15lbs ) or is the kit a little wider - either case its not flattering. However those mirrors and rubber tires, plus the swing mechanism looks tempting, but the lack of detail - scribbed lines are a bit of a turn off. I might get it if I run across it at a local hobby store - now that I have 4 seats I am dissapointed that the Hasegawa cartograph decals do not include the pilot and rio's names on the canopy - do you know were I might get these, it would look nice beside the Valkyries.

On a slightly different note, what type of grey would be the closest Tamiya colour? Sky Grey? I know the FS number is provided, but is there a chart that converts that to Tamiya colours? Secondly, that great article on USN weathering, what era is the Hasegawa re-issue kit? Would it have such a mottled grey paint scheme? I would take it that its past the gloss white belly and grey top, but is it overall grey or a lighter grey in the belly?

[newca]

Cheng, I'm not sure what kind of "fat" you are talking about, but after compare some kits, I found the Fujimi Tomcat is exactly as fat as Hasegawa one, they are almost same.

[David Hingtgen]

I put the Hase and Fuji "tail to tail" and the Hase's fuselage between the engines is a good 2 or 3mm wider than the Fuji--if the Fuji's fat, then the Hase's "fatter". I haven't tried "overall" width across the rear fuselage yet, but it'd take massively wide fairings to make the Fuji wider than the Hase overall. I'll check tonight, when I take pics of the dry-fits. However, I do know the back end of the Fuji is often considered "off" by people. BTW, my Hase PE set has canopy mirrors, and it's an "A" PE set---there's no PE parts for the B/D's, you just get the A set and use what you can. Which is most of it.

As for paint colors: I can't find a Tamiya equivalent. Which blows my mind, for that is the most common color in the entire US Navy from 1950 to 1985 or so, for all aircraft. From what I can find, XF-20 is the closest. But every single other company makes FS16440. (or 36440, depending on how clean the plane is).

Anyways--from the pic of the kit box, I can't quite tell if it's white-belly or not. Either way, don't mottle it. However, the presence of white undersides will affect how the intake interiors are painted. If the belly is white, every bit of intake interior is white. If the entire plane is grey, then front end of the interior is grey. Note position of ramps--first 2 are grey, but the 3rd is white, and that's where the white intake paint starts. Separation line is vertical. If you do a low-vis scheme though, it's completely different, with different ramps and intake colors. (And all of the above is "usually"--it'll vary plane-by-plane--but those are general rules for how the intakes are painted with the main 3 F-14 schemes)

PS--if it comes with a Block-70 boat-tail, I could sure use one! You won't need it for ANY Jolly Rogers plane, but I bet a high-vis F-14A kit like that would come with one.

Overall 16440 scheme typical intake interior paint pattern: (and of course, this is actually a low-vis F-14, which for some reason has intakes painted like a high-vis gloss grey F-14)

Edited April 28, 2004 by David Hingtgen

[wm cheng]

So If I want to do whats on that box, I don't mottle it in anyway? Even the top surface? Damn, I was all keen on trying that F-18 article out!

Is that box photo, and the plane the cartograph decals are based on an all grey plane? XF20 seems awful dark for FS16440 (what about XF-19 Sky Grey - I'm afraid the decal of the walking surface on top of the intakes might appear lighter against the XF-20 paint) - would you recommend me switching to another type of paint, I wouldn't mind getting a bottle just for this kit - as long as its acrylic. What about a radome equivalent -XF55 Deck Tan?

Hey has anyone every used Tenax-7 - what is it like? How does it react to painted surfaces?

P.S. I've noticed that the Hasegawa kit also includes a forward gear retracted to accept the catapult too.

[David Hingtgen]

While Tamiya paint is nice, their color selection IMHO sucks. They do not make the 4 most common colors for all-time US jets. So pretty much no USAF/USN/USMC plane from 1950 to 2004 can be made "out of the bottle".

Best match for 36440 is 36440, and Radome tan is Radome tan... I myself use mainly Testors MM acrylic since they make most every US jet color. 3:1 thinner/paint for airbrushing. (I think that's what it was)

Anyways---I found a larger pic of the box art (thanks newca!) and that appears to actually be a much later variation of the scheme.

Go here: http://www.almansur.com/jollyrogers/jollytomcats.htm They've got pics of every variation there is. You want about half-way down, when they were on the USS Theodore Roosevelt. And I do believe the exact pic used for the box art is there (you usually get nice *big* high-res pics when you click on pics at this site--be prepared to wait a bit) You've got a 1990 or so Tomcat, just prior to Desert Shield. The biggest difference between this and "classic" VF-84 high-vis is that you've got the AJ tailcode on the inside of the fin, where the older version has it on the outside of the fin, above and below the skull.

And you'll probably want 36440, even the CAG birds were matte at this time.

PS--I forgot to mention this while you were doing the VF-0--wing-sweep wear! There's almost always a darker patch visible when the wings are unswept. Sometimes hard to see, sometimes VERY obvious and dark. And it will be the exact shape where the wings are fully swept.

PPS--I'd really like a pic of the boat-tail options (speed-brake area) in that kit, I'd like to know if the 364/366 kits come with the early style.

Edited April 28, 2004 by David Hingtgen