Ghost in the Shell: Innocence

[Ivan]

That's right, "Ghost in the Shell: Innocence" by Mamoru Oshii is one of the nominees this year.

If I'm not mistaken, this is the very first Japanese animated film to ever compete in the prestigious Cannes Film Festival in France. Quite an accomplishment. Anyone seen the film? Is it any good? Thanks.

[eriku]

Wow, that's really great to hear, Oshii should be proud. I wish I could be at Cannes this year to see Innocence and Michael Moore's new film Fahrenheit 911, which is only the second documentary to chosen at Cannes in the last 50 years or so. The other was Bowling for Columbine.

[Impreszive]

I haven't seen it yet, but I am hearing that this movie is really good from my sources. If it got into Cannes in a top nomination, then that should say something.

Oshii is an excellent animation director.

[bsu legato]

Sadly, I heard that it's getting an extremely limited release over here. Unless you're in a mojor city like LA, your best bet will be to download it or wait for the DVD release.

[eriku]

Sadly, I heard that it's getting an extremely limited release over here. Unless you're in a mojor city like LA, your best bet will be to download it or wait for the DVD release.

I'm confident that Minneapolis will get it. So far every theatrically released Anime film released in the last few years has made it to one or two of the 'hip' theaters here. One of those theaters is showing the first Ghost in the Shell movie Saturday night. It's not the best movie by any means, but it's good enough to check out on the big screen.

[Myriad]

This movie sounds supr. Since it is licensed I guess we better keep the torrent pages to ourselves. We wouldn't want any mods going nova.

Edited August 23, 2004 by Myriad

[eugimon]

yeah, I can't wait till this movie comes out, it's one of the few movies I'm actually looking forward to this year.

[Mr March]

I've been diving into Ghost in the Shell lately and I checked out the website for this new flick. I'm very eager to see it. Release date is scheduled for September 17th according to the website. The indie theatres here in Calgary have been playing several anime films upon release, so I'm hoping GITS 2: Innocence will make it here as well.

[bsu legato]

Here's a short review and an interview with Oshii, courtesy AICN.

[Mallet21]

I saw the trailer before 'Hero' and it looks great, especially since Batou is my favorite character.

[Radd]

I suppose I'lll be the sole dissenting voice. I love Oshii, and I love Ghost in the Shell. Unfortunately, the first GitS movie by Oshii fell far short of both the original GitS manga and Oshii's other movie work.

For one thing, the original GitS movie managed to strip any and all personality from each and every one of the characters. Beyond that, the very heart of the story was also removed, and we were left with shallow, meaningless pseudo-philosphical BS for dialogue.

I have no doubt that this new GitS movie will be pretty, with some exceptions (I've already seen examples of inexcusably wretched CG from the film) much like the first movie. I don't expect anything more. I hope Oshii will surprise me, but I have not seen anything so far to indicate he will.

[bsu legato]

This movie sounds supr. Since it is licensed I guess we better keep the torrent pages to ourselves. We wouldn't want any mods going nova.

Would these so-called "torrents" be subtitled? That is, if such a thing existed. Which it doesn't.

[bsu legato]

I suppose I'lll be the sole dissenting voice. I love Oshii, and I love Ghost in the Shell. Unfortunately, the first GitS movie by Oshii fell far short of both the original GitS manga and Oshii's other movie work.

For one thing, the original GitS movie managed to strip any and all personality from each and every one of the characters. Beyond that, the very heart of the story was also removed, and we were left with shallow, meaningless pseudo-philosphical BS for dialogue.

Actually, I'm not a big fan of the first film either, for precisely the same reasons you mention. However, Production IG looks like they're doing their usual world class job in terms of animation, which is my main drawing point for this film. There was that early trailer that had the faux-steadycam tracking shot of Batau, for example. Awesome looking stuff, no matter how inaccessible the story might be.

[Myriad]

Would these so-called "torrents" be subtitled? That is, if such a thing existed. Which it doesn't.

If there is any out there i doubt they are subbed yet.

[Myriad]

Comes out September 17 in the states!

You might be in one of the lucky cities....

Check at the Official Website

http://www.gofishpictures.com/GITS2/playdates.html

Edited September 1, 2004 by Myriad

[Ladic]

F*CK YEAH! it's coming to Ft Lauderdale!

[Gui]

I suppose I'lll be the sole dissenting voice. I love Oshii, and I love Ghost in the Shell. Unfortunately, the first GitS movie by Oshii fell far short of both the original GitS manga and Oshii's other movie work.

For one thing, the original GitS movie managed to strip any and all personality from each and every one of the characters. Beyond that, the very heart of the story was also removed, and we were left with shallow, meaningless pseudo-philosphical BS for dialogue.

Actually, I'm not a big fan of the first film either, for precisely the same reasons you mention. However, Production IG looks like they're doing their usual world class job in terms of animation, which is my main drawing point for this film.

Same sentiment here: I'm rather fond of the GitS movie for its technical performances than for its story depth and/or faithfullness to the original manga

[Myriad]

Argh! Phoenix is as close as I can get........

[JELEINEN]

I wonder if it'd be worth driving to Lincoln for. I'm with the guys who weren't real impressed with the first film and I'm also a huge Oshii fan. I might consider it more if it were in Japanese, but the dead pan dub of the first one was particularly bad.

[bsu legato]

Yeah, that sub of the original was pretty monotone. I was disappointed that the same cast was being used for Stand Alone Complex, but they do seem to be a bit livelier this time around. Is Innocence being dubbed? I thought I'd read that it was subbed only.

[Radd]

I suppose I'lll be the sole dissenting voice. I love Oshii, and I love Ghost in the Shell. Unfortunately, the first GitS movie by Oshii fell far short of both the original GitS manga and Oshii's other movie work.

For one thing, the original GitS movie managed to strip any and all personality from each and every one of the characters. Beyond that, the very heart of the story was also removed, and we were left with shallow, meaningless pseudo-philosphical BS for dialogue.

Actually, I'm not a big fan of the first film either, for precisely the same reasons you mention. However, Production IG looks like they're doing their usual world class job in terms of animation, which is my main drawing point for this film.

Same sentiment here: I'm rather fond of the GitS movie for its technical performances than for its story depth and/or faithfullness to the original manga

While I will admit that the GitS movie is technically impressive, I can't really appreciate that much because of how the movie was hyped. In the movie's own hype they compare it to Akira, but if you really do compare the animation in both movies GitS isn't even in the same league, by far. Now I can't watch the movie without that comparison in my head.

[bsu legato]

While I will admit that the GitS movie is technically impressive, I can't really appreciate that much because of how the movie was hyped.

To be fair, a lot of that seems to be the stupid American marketing for the film itself. We've all met those people. They've seen Akira, GITS, and a few episodes of Bebop on Adult Swim, and they think they're freakin' experts. Akira and GITS will be the "measuring stick" that all anime films use in this market for some time, simply because that's all they know.

[JELEINEN]

Yeah, that sub of the original was pretty monotone. I was disappointed that the same cast was being used for Stand Alone Complex, but they do seem to be a bit livelier this time around. Is Innocence being dubbed? I thought I'd read that it was subbed only.

I'm assuming it's dubbed.

[GreenGuy42]

Yeah, that sub of the original was pretty monotone. I was disappointed that the same cast was being used for Stand Alone Complex, but they do seem to be a bit livelier this time around. Is Innocence being dubbed? I thought I'd read that it was subbed only.

I'm assuming it's dubbed.

Actually, IIRC, I think it's subtitled, thought I might be confusing it with Hero..

...still It's gonna be in GAINESVILLE!! Huzzah!

[EXO]

LOL... 5 minutes away from work...

[Valkyrie]

Kick ass... Not only is it in Chicago (no surprise there, really), but it won't even involve a trip downtown on a friday night!

The AMC 30 in Barrington is still a good 30 minute trek for me, but it beats the hell out of battling through hellish traffic in the city.

[eugimon]

I suppose I'lll be the sole dissenting voice. I love Oshii, and I love Ghost in the Shell. Unfortunately, the first GitS movie by Oshii fell far short of both the original GitS manga and Oshii's other movie work.

For one thing, the original GitS movie managed to strip any and all personality from each and every one of the characters. Beyond that, the very heart of the story was also removed, and we were left with shallow, meaningless pseudo-philosphical BS for dialogue.

Actually, I'm not a big fan of the first film either, for precisely the same reasons you mention. However, Production IG looks like they're doing their usual world class job in terms of animation, which is my main drawing point for this film.

Same sentiment here: I'm rather fond of the GitS movie for its technical performances than for its story depth and/or faithfullness to the original manga

While I will admit that the GitS movie is technically impressive, I can't really appreciate that much because of how the movie was hyped. In the movie's own hype they compare it to Akira, but if you really do compare the animation in both movies GitS isn't even in the same league, by far. Now I can't watch the movie without that comparison in my head.

wow, completely disagree.. GitS does stuff that you would even dream of back in the day Akira was made... the CGI and hand drawn stuff is seemless, and the mood and pacing are just incredible.

while akira is amazing considering when it was made, the character animation, fluidity of movement just doesn't stack up.

GitS is the first japanese animation where I looked at the character animation done and thought that it was on par or better than anything disney has ever put out... even when they were just rotoscoping stuff.

[Gui]

I tend to agree with Radd personnally: Akira has been THE standard during a while and we could expect that GitS would be compared to it, but it's a bit difficult to do so IMO. Sure, the animation of GitS is overally very good but how animation is there really? I mean, we see a lot of motionless sequences with a character 'talking' but his lips don't move, or some 'depth' effects which look like basic cellulo manipulations -with the foreground coming towards the spectator while the background goes away into the opposite direction (made with a camera zoom or maybe with some CGI, dunno...): this is not really difficult to do, especially at the time where GitS was made. In Akira, such 'cheap' things are far less present: the lips movement are faithfull to what the character is saying and there's almost no sequence where something is not moving... Things like that make me think that Akira remains superior to GitS

[JELEINEN]

Not a huge Akira fan either, but I'll take it's animation any day over GitS. Especially with the level of detail that was in it. I find the fallacy that computer animation is automatically better than hand drawn to be annoying and stupid. Computers aren't better, only cheaper and faster.

[fulcy]

Wow, it's actually playing in Pittsburgh?!?!! True, it seems I need to wait a little while longer - doesn't show till the 08th of October - but I can't complain!!

[Global]

I saw this movie last week. I saw the first GitS movie years ago and didn't really care for it. But this movie blew me away. The detail in the animation is amazing. Oshii introduced the film and said the animation is 5-6 years ahead of any other anime and he thinks it will be his last animated film he directs.

I highly recommend to watch it in the theater if possible. I think so much detail is lost on a smaller TV screen.

[Radd]

I suppose I'lll be the sole dissenting voice. I love Oshii, and I love Ghost in the Shell. Unfortunately, the first GitS movie by Oshii fell far short of both the original GitS manga and Oshii's other movie work.

For one thing, the original GitS movie managed to strip any and all personality from each and every one of the characters. Beyond that, the very heart of the story was also removed, and we were left with shallow, meaningless pseudo-philosphical BS for dialogue.

Actually, I'm not a big fan of the first film either, for precisely the same reasons you mention. However, Production IG looks like they're doing their usual world class job in terms of animation, which is my main drawing point for this film.

Same sentiment here: I'm rather fond of the GitS movie for its technical performances than for its story depth and/or faithfullness to the original manga

While I will admit that the GitS movie is technically impressive, I can't really appreciate that much because of how the movie was hyped. In the movie's own hype they compare it to Akira, but if you really do compare the animation in both movies GitS isn't even in the same league, by far. Now I can't watch the movie without that comparison in my head.

wow, completely disagree.. GitS does stuff that you would even dream of back in the day Akira was made... the CGI and hand drawn stuff is seemless, and the mood and pacing are just incredible.

while akira is amazing considering when it was made, the character animation, fluidity of movement just doesn't stack up.

GitS is the first japanese animation where I looked at the character animation done and thought that it was on par or better than anything disney has ever put out... even when they were just rotoscoping stuff.

I'm speaking as an animation student, while I'm reluctant to say that makes my opinion more qualified, I learned a lot at art school about what makes good animation, what to look for. I'm speaking on technical aspects alone here, objectively as possible.

Gui really covered about all I could say on the matter. I would also reccomend checking out 'Wings of Honneamise' aka 'The Royal Space Force', and the first two Patlabor movies. Wings, at least, I would also rank much higher in the animation department than GitS, for many of the same reasons. The Patlabor movies I would rank at least about on par with GitS.

I will also admit I'm rather critical of CG. I don't hate well done CG, but I've seen plenty of absolutely terrible CG that has wowed audiences the world over. In the American trailer for Innocence they even feature some shots of just such CG that really stands out (in a bad way) compared to the otherwise well done visuals. I wonder if that says something about the American view of CG, when you realize the Japanese trailer avoided such shots.

[Myriad]

Still no show for Tucson. Maybe it will get a bigger release a little later. Anyone know when the DVD comes out for Region 1? I guess the SUPR of a NOVA Fansub will have to do for now. That is if there is one out there....

Edited September 9, 2004 by Myriad

[GRAND CANNON]

**Friendly Reminder**

Friday in Boston/Cambridge!!

[Seven]

I'd say that the 2nd Patlabor movie was the beginning of the template for how Oshii's following films would be in terms of mood, character designs (less typical anime-ish), somber music, and CG. The first Patlabor movie was more a collaboration between the members of Headgear, which shows in the more traditional anime character designs and more light hearted story.

Patlabor 2 is an excellent movie and so is the first. I'm not sure if I'd rate Wings of Honneamise on the same footing as GITS in regards to animation, but I will say that the story is much more personal. All of these movies, and other more serious anime movies such as that of Satoshi Kon's are where I feel anime as an art form and storytelling device grows, not in the average run of the mill TV series. I don't know many people that enjoy anime that is that serious in theme... most otaku love their girls with big guns and crap.

Anyways, Oshii no longer directing anime movies? Why?! It's not like his live action work has really garnered him praise like his animated work has.