Macross Not Popular in Japan

[Spiff]

I'm siting here thinking to myself, Self why is Big West dukeing it out in court, and I answered, Well maybe its because they wish to clear the path for a new series!

Why else all the fuss in court? It hasn't been for merchandise so much, so couldnt it be for a new series and new merchandise?

As for a new series I would like it to follow the end of Macross series, I know Kawamori doesnt much care to do that but I think alot of fans do! Or perhaps once Macross 0 concludes the new series could pickup or rehash and flow up to the Macross series. Personally I am likeing M0 and love the mecha in it.

I just hope for a show to be popular in Japan it does not require cutesie kid stuff, why cant it be more serious and geared to a slightly older audience and still be a huge succes just like the original Macross?

[Graham]

Hear hear. I could care less how popular it is, and I think the Hoary Froating Head is of the same mind on this one. It's his baby, and why on earth should he have to compromise his vision and integrity for the sake of mass-market appeal? Sure there's the money from merchandising, but I think Kawamori considers himself an artist, and I would say that Macross is his life's work (whether he'll admit to it or not is another story). I think Kawamori-sama is living comfortably enough, and has his priorities straight. No need to sell this one out just yet. I'd much rather Kawamori stick to his guns and do it his way, mass-market appeal be damned. When Macross (Insert Version Here) comes out, I'll tune in to see what's new regardless of when it's released. I might be the only geezer in the nursing home making "swoosh" noises while I fly my (now vintage) Yamato 1/48 around the room, but I'll be a blissfully happy old bastard.

Look at the great music groups of the last few decades - I won't name names since tastes will obviously vary, but think about this: How often do the truly great bands release albums? Do they do it like the bubble-gum pop cookie cutter flash-in-the-pans that Mtv force feeds to the masses with a new album out every 9 months or so until they're burned out and used up and discarded like a used tissue? (breath) Or, do the great ones sometime take YEARS between releases, only putting them out when they have something to say and when they're ready to release it (as opposed to fitting the schedule of some seedy music exec looking to fund a new wing on their Beverly Hills palace)? Macross is like one of the great bands - it might not pull in as many new fans en masse, but the fans it has are devoted, rabid, and unquestionably loyal to a fault.

I say leave Macross to Kawamori's best judgement. Macross 7 aside (and even that's debatable), he hasn't steered us wrong yet, and I don't expect him to. Let the attention-starved children have their new Gundam series and associated merchandise every year. Leave Macross fresh and for the adults who've been around long enough to appreciate it. If I have to wait 5 years for a decent Macross series, so be it. Better that than the alternative ...

P.S. - No disrespect to Gundam fans intended. Hey - I like a few of the series myself. I just don't particularly like the way they keep rehashing essentially the same series over and over with not much new to show for it. It's very obviously become about making money, and not telling a story, which - let's face it - is what brought down even the mighty Star Wars from its pedestal.

Hear, hear! Well said that man.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Graham

[treatment]

Look at the link you sent me. Was Taylor a BW creation? No? Then Taylor can't be used in this argument. From the beginning, I was talking about BW created franchises, in this case Macross. They created Macross, thats their one hit wonder... thats what they have been milking since.

I feel like I'm discussing this with two Abombz instead of one since you can't seem to remember what you wrote.

This is what you said from top of page-3:

I understand where you are coming from, but BW is a one hit wonder, they made Macross and nothing else.

I replied with a link. The link says BigWest was involved in production of both Tylor and Macross-TV. Unless you're reading something else on that link I gave you, that link basically debunked your original claim that Macross was the only hit of Big West and that Big West is one-hit wonder. You don't even know the sequels for Tylor. Basically, you shoot your mouth (or fingers) before you checked on what exactly BigWest actually has in it's portfolio of titles.

The ANN-encyclopedia is a wealth of info on anime and stuff and I suggest you use it for reference.

Btw, last time I check, Macross was the creation of Studio Nue.

I don't worship anyone. I didn't say Tomino was the guy behind SDF Macross, and you are making yourself look dumb for saying that. All I said Tomino was the guy who designed the MSs in Gundam... which you pointed out was inspiration for Kawamori. Inspiration only.... I didn't say anything beyond that.

No, you just said that without Tomino, there would be no Macross. That is what you said.

Close to 20 years ago. First issue on 1987.

If you could care less... then you are being ignorant about a fact and shouldn't be talking about this to begin with.

I thought it was like 1985, but yes, I could care less about the novel since I'm an anime and toy fan, and not a manga-fan or a novel-fan. That really doesn't change the fact that the Sentinels are the best-looking Gundam to get to purchase right now. Regardless if the buyer is even aware of an actual Sentinels-novel. And I personally buy aesthetically-pleasing toys and models and I never ever relied on any novels for those purchasing decisions.

Yeah... but none of that would have happened if BW actually cared about what the heck HG was doing with their property.

Huh? Do you really think BW does not care what the heck HG was doing with their property? Do you really think that there was no reason at all why they gave the DYRL-license to whoever and the MacII-license and the Plus-license to Manga Video, instead of giving them all to HG?

And I thought you were joking about Hikaru being angsty. Sheesh!

Want to know why it was popular? Its a 12 episode long OVA that took 1 year to be broadcast, being re-run over and over untill its last episode was finally broadcast..

Oh, I don't know. Maybe because MS-8th Team was really that good and the viewers actually like it alot both here and in Japan? I'm sure that thought prolly might have crossed your mind somewhere.

Gundam X ratings didn't go down... it was outright cancelled because ppl felt it was boring and the characters looked too much like Wing.

How the fugazi the companies know if people gets bored with a series they're broadcasting again to cancel a show? Do they use a ouija-board or a crystal-ball to make that determination? Geezus, Abombz! lol!

Models still help the interest on Gundam

No, duhh. I'm a Gundam-fan primarily because of the mecha-models. Tomino's storytelling always takes a backseat.

It was a choice I made, if you didn't want to be vocal about Mac 7... then thats your issue.

It's called polite discussion, Abombz.

I really could care less about your dislike of Zero and mostly ignores it when I come across it in the old boards, but when you go on and on and on about how crappy and shitty Zero is without really having a firm foundation about it and all of us here knowing there's only two episodes shown as of yet, it gets a little tiring. To say the least.

Even tho I dislike M7, I'm ok with people liking or disliking M7. Heck! I even posted screenshots of what I don't like about M7.

I just don't go around disparaging M7 every chance I get like you seem to do whenever Zero gets mentioned.

Just take that as a constructive criticism of your vocal Zero-unhappiness.

Thats not what I meant. I meant that Macross Zero will be popular after all its DVDs are available... not that they should release everything at the same time.

You're probably correct.

Right now, I'm just one of those that likes it already, even with only two episodes shown. I just need/want the toys to go along with it.

--treatment--

[CF18]

Geez... another crap thread about every good anime the idiot hate...

[MacrossX]

My question is "Does it matter whether Ma Cross (no mac cross please!) is popular in Japan or anywhere else as long as you like it!?"

I was attracted to the original series because of the story and the mecha designs. Much like other innovative creations such as Galaxy Express 999, Uchuu Senkan Yamato, original Gundam ....Mazinga, Voltes V .....etc. I liked them because they are simply different from others. Many years from now, Macross is definitely not going to be popular at all or if many will remember it. If I like it, it doesn't matter whether it is popular or not.

I am from the old school, Gundam Seed is popular but I don't like it. The story is old and the design is also "old". It is just not the same as the original Gundam in which the mecha designs were innovative; the story was very dramatic and well written, not to mention totally original. The drawing might not be as high tech or detailed but it is better drawing than in Seed. After 46 episodes of Seed (latest), I still don't like it.

I personally think it is dangerous for Yamato as a business to concentrate mainly on Macross. If that falls, Yamato will finish.

My two .... and half cents!

Edited September 4, 2003 by MacrossX

[Isamu Atreides 86]

My question is "Does it matter whether Ma Cross (no mac cross please!) is popular in Japan or anywhere else as long as you like it!?"

here here!!

[hikaru]

I'm happy where macross stand in terms of popularity, In the Philippines it seems everybody liked the gundam and I'm happy that few people know it because to me it makes macross more special as what they say in a TV commercial here in our country "BE IBA":)

[ewilen]

Hmm.... go back ans watch it again. Specially the episodes before he joins the army.

There's exactly one episode of Hikaru angsting before joining the military--episode 5.

After that he angsts quite a bit more, but never as annoyingly or incomprehensibly as Quess Paraya. (I realize it may not be fair to judge Gundam on the basis of Char's Counterattack--actually I hope one day to check out the original series--but that character has to be the most unlikeable creation I've ever seen in a cartoon.)

Random thought related to another theme in this thread--would Yamato do better to package its Valkyries in battroid mode instead of fighter? I have a feeling that by displaying the Valks in fighter mode, the packaging appeals strongly to the hard-core initiates who see a moderately-futuristic airplane, recognize it as a Valkyrie, and get excited over how true-to-life it looks. People who don't know much about Macross on the other hand are liable to just skip past it on the way to the giant robots.

Then again, even if Valkyries are displayed in battroid mode, that doesn't really encompass what's truly "sexy" about them (IMO)--the fluid and nearly-believable transformation between several good-looking modes. I wonder how hard it would be to build a few large-scale demonstration pieces which could transform on their own using motors? Can you imagine the effect of having one of them in a display window at a flagship toystore?

[kanata67]

I watch a lot of stuff. DYRL was good, as were many others. I actually preffered the mckinny books myself . I learned a long time ago that I CHOSE what I watch. If I don't enjoy it I simply move on with my life. Focusing on why I didn't like it takes more effort than crappy TV merits.

What can I say but I have read novels so much better than most anime/cartoon plots that it makes me wonder just how much PCP the writers of Pokemon do on an average day. Anime is a visual media. For me it's all about the mecha and the corresponding toys. Really... who watched GI JOE for the plot rather than the cool gear? C'mon... America's elite vs the worlds best terrorist organization and niether could hit the broad side of a barn from the inside with an AK-47. Dusty got a concussion ONCE and there was no death till the movie came out. GI JOE is the reason blood starved adolecent Americans turned to macross.

Companies do serial plots for increased exposure and occasionally because the story justifies it. Zoids the chaotic century was a serial with a continous plot that I personally could get into, where-as the regular zoids was the typical half-hour meet them and beat them kinda of marketing gimmick plot I've seen to many times already.

If they wanted to do that to macross it would be easy enough to "borrow" voltron lion force's plot of " uh oh, time to go beat the alien monster again". As long asthey don't do a power ranger's live action version or a "thunderbirds are a go" puppet thing... and the cool toys keep coming, I'm happy.

stupid internet connection... hope this isn't a double post

[Abombz!!]

My question is "Does it matter whether Ma Cross (no mac cross please!) is popular in Japan or anywhere else as long as you like it!?"

Talk about hitting the nail on the head!

[Abombz!!]

I feel like I'm discussing this with two Abombz instead of one since you can't seem to remember what you wrote.

This is what you said from top of page-3:

I understand where you are coming from, but BW is a one hit wonder, they made Macross and nothing else.

I replied with a link. The link says BigWest was involved in production of both Tylor and Macross-TV. Unless you're reading something else on that link I gave you, that link basically debunked your original claim that Macross was the only hit of Big West and that Big West is one-hit wonder. You don't even know the sequels for Tylor. Basically, you shoot your mouth (or fingers) before you checked on what exactly BigWest actually has in it's portfolio of titles.

The ANN-encyclopedia is a wealth of info on anime and stuff and I suggest you use it for reference.

Btw, last time I check, Macross was the creation of Studio Nue

Nope... you are the one unable to head there. They are a one hit wonder because the link you gave showed me they had more Macross shows then anything else. So what Taylor was successful? All their other exploits outside Macross failed, except for Taylor, but they didn't pursue Taylor any further (if someone else did, good for them).

Case closed.

No, you just said that without Tomino, there would be no Macross. That is what you said.

Yep... without Gundams inspiration, and their experienced gained working on MSG, it would have been called Battle City Megaroad. Case closed. But then again the project was there, so inspiration was the only big part on it. You put words in my mouth by saying I said Tomino created Macross.

I thought it was like 1985, but yes, I could care less about the novel since I'm an anime and toy fan, and not a manga-fan or a novel-fan. That really doesn't change the fact that the Sentinels are the best-looking Gundam to get to purchase right now. Regardless if the buyer is even aware of an actual Sentinels-novel. And I personally buy aesthetically-pleasing toys and models and I never ever relied on any novels for those purchasing decisions.

I could care less. You said the best Gundam is model Sentinel. There is no model Sentinel, I corrected you. There are S Gundam, EX-S Gundam, FAZZ, Z Gundam C1 and A1..... I don't see any model called Sentinel, do you? <_<

Oh and BTW... you ignorance towards the Sentinel novel really defeats your argument about you liking the models and designs, as the Sentinel novel is the ultimate source of Gundam designs and details. mainly about the one you consider to be the best Gundam around.... the S Gundam. If you really liked designs and models you would own one.

P.S. Perhaps you are oblivious to the fact.... but the S in S Gundam stands "Superior" not Sentinel.

Huh? Do you really think BW does not care what the heck HG was doing with their property? Do you really think that there was no reason at all why they gave the DYRL-license to whoever and the MacII-license and the Plus-license to Manga Video, instead of giving them all to HG?

And I thought you were joking about Hikaru being angsty. Sheesh!

They didn't care.... took them close to 20 years to dispute the ownership of SDF Macross, because the west market showed signs of being worthy, I call that not carring.

If you know so much about it.... then how come Kawamori doesn't give a crap about HGs shady business? Onyl Mikimoto showed any sort of discontent with how things are handled here.

Yes... before joining the army Hikaru was just like Amuro. The difference was that Kawamori decided to kill whatever angst her had by turning him into an Ace pilot.

Oh, I don't know. Maybe because MS-8th Team was really that good and the viewers actually like it alot both here and in Japan? I'm sure that thought prolly might have crossed your mind somewhere.

Yeah so? It still shows clear signs of milking. If the show had been shown in 1 month... then it wouldn't have been popular.

How the fugazi the companies know if people gets bored with a series they're broadcasting again to cancel a show? Do they use a ouija-board or a crystal-ball to make that determination? Geezus, Abombz! lol!

I'm not even going there because you acting dumb once again.

No, duhh. I'm a Gundam-fan primarily because of the mecha-models. Tomino's storytelling always takes a backseat.

Once again you act dumb and help support my argument that models carry Gundam when its shows aren't popular.

It's called polite discussion, Abombz.

I really could care less about your dislike of Zero and mostly ignores it when I come across it in the old boards, but when you go on and on and on about how crappy and shitty Zero is without really having a firm foundation about it and all of us here knowing there's only two episodes shown as of yet, it gets a little tiring. To say the least.

Even tho I dislike M7, I'm ok with people liking or disliking M7. Heck! I even posted screenshots of what I don't like about M7.

I just don't go around disparaging M7 every chance I get like you seem to do whenever Zero gets mentioned.

Just take that as a constructive criticism of your vocal Zero-unhappiness.

I just made 2 posts about what I dislike about Zero. Sorry I don't have much time like you to search for screen shots.

Polite discussion? Please indulge me... quote times when I was inpolite arguing about Macross Zero. You want to know whats inpolite? To go out of my way to argue about Zero.... I have yet to create one single thread about how much I hate Zero.

In case you haven't noticed either..... I have participated in many civil discussions about Zero, without even commenting on my dislike for it.

And BTW.... next time... try not to act dumb.... maybe then you will be able to say something I won't be able to reply to. <_<

Edited September 4, 2003 by Abombz!!

[Radd]

They didn't care.... took them close to 20 years to dispute the ownership of SDF Macross, because the west market showed signs of being worthy, I call that not carring.

If you know so much about it.... then how come Kawamori doesn't give a crap about HGs shady business? Onyl Mikimoto showed any sort of discontent with how things are handled here.

Correct me if I'm wrong...but there was no dispute until HG started making a fuss over the Macross Plus toys, was there?

DYRL, Macross II, Macross Plus? They were all licensed by Big West to north American companies with no problems. It wasn't until the debacle over the Macross Plus toys and the VF-X 2 game that HG claimed thier ownership of Macross, and Big West took Tatsunoko to court over it.

Plus, company employees aren't supposed to express their opinions over legal disputes, in case their words are misused by either the press or their opponents.

[Abombz!!]

They didn't care.... took them close to 20 years to dispute the ownership of SDF Macross, because the west market showed signs of being worthy, I call that not carring.

If you know so much about it.... then how come Kawamori doesn't give a crap about HGs shady business? Onyl Mikimoto showed any sort of discontent with how things are handled here.

Correct me if I'm wrong...but there was no dispute until HG started making a fuss over the Macross Plus toys, was there?

DYRL, Macross II, Macross Plus? They were all licensed by Big West to north American companies with no problems. It wasn't until the debacle over the Macross Plus toys and the VF-X 2 game that HG claimed thier ownership of Macross, and Big West took Tatsunoko to court over it.

Plus, company employees aren't supposed to express their opinions over legal disputes, in case their words are misused by either the press or their opponents.

Well... for one Mikimoto isn't an employee of BW, neither is Kawamori. They are both free to say what they want. If they were really emplyees... BW would have been involved in Escaflowne and the many other projects Kawamori was involved.

The fact that HG started blocking Macross stuff in the US doesn't change the fact that BW did nothing to prevent that.

But then again... this is a HG debate thread topic.

Edited September 4, 2003 by Abombz!!