Fleet of the United Nations Spacy

[Boxer]

Obviously this is developed from the Newbie questions as a discussion.

I have some questions about the UN Spacy fleet:

1)Super Dimensional Fortress (SDF) class ships:

To my knowledge only one Super Dimensional Fortress was completed, that being the SDF-1. And I know the Megaroad is the incomplete SDF-2. My question is do other Super Dimensional Fortress-type units exist in the UN Spacy? I don't count the New Macross Battle sections because they don't have the SDF designation. Also, is it possible for unmentioned SDF-type units to exist within Macross (I.e., nobody said the Macross was the only SDF.)

2) Are there any heavy capital ships in the UN Spacy?

To my knowlegde the United Nations Spacy seems to depend on a dwindling amount of converted Zentreadi ships and a handfull of Cruisers, Stealth Frigates, Escort carriers, and other medium and light ships. My question is that are there ships (If even non-canon) that are heavier than a cruiser that aren't zentran?

3) The Factory Sattelite:

I know one was captured in Space War one, but were others also captured? If so do these factories produce full zentran ships or only fighters? And if they can produce capital ships do they build heavier UN Spacy origin ships also?

Heh. I probably asked questions not many people can answer.

EDIT: Yes I checked the Compendium before asking this question.

Edited April 11, 2004 by Boxer

[Noyhauser]

To my knowlegde the United Nations Spacy seems to depend on a dwindling amount of converted Zentreadi ships and a handfull of Cruisers, Stealth Frigates, Escort carriers, and other medium and light ships. My question is that are there ships (If even non-canon) that are heavier than a cruiser that aren't zentran?

macross class battleships as what is seen in Macross 7, those are intendend to be the heaviest shps in the arsenal.

[azrael]

1) Only 2 SDF-class ships were built. SDF-1 and the partial SDF-2. There is a chance of more Supervision gunboats out there though...

2) As Noyhauser mentioned, the New-Macross-class are the heaviest. Those ships are much like our own fleet carriers.

3) There is only one factory satellite in our possesion.

[dedalus001]

1) Only 2 SDF-class ships were built. SDF-1 and the partial SDF-2. There is a chance of more Supervision gunboats out there though...

2) As Noyhauser mentioned, the New-Macross-class are the heaviest. Those ships are much like our own fleet carriers.

3) There is only one factory satellite in our possesion.

really? even by 2045 the UN only has one factory sattelite? i figured they would have acquired more post SWI while expanding and what not

owell

[azrael]

really? even by 2045 the UN only has one factory sattelite? i figured they would have acquired more post SWI while expanding and what not

The reason they got the factory satellite was to increase production after losing most of their production facilities. By the 2040s, they have production facilities all around the galaxy and mobile production facilites like the 3-Star factory ship. Production facilities decentralized thanks to the work that the original factory satellite.

[Boxer]

So the New Macross ships are the heaviest.

Well I suppose that makes sense, but I would have thought the UN spacy would try to make some sort of heavier battleship based around multiple Particle beam cannons. Sure it would be a monumental project, but then again the UN Spacy did construct the New Macross Ships...

Aside from the New Macross fleets, has it been confirmed that the variable battle carriers were constructed seperately for fleet purposes? I know Steelfalcon mentions something like this, but I want to know if it's cannon.

[David Hingtgen]

You know, weight doesn't equate to size, for ships.

(I don't think there's ever really been a way to compare ships via some "size" stat, other than just making a scale model and finding out the volume of it that way--displacement, weight, gross tonnage, etc all have little correlation/relevance, even among ships of similar size and type--only exception is REALLY similar type, like any carrier using Forrestal-style of deck design)

[JB0]

1) Only 2 SDF-class ships were built. SDF-1 and the partial SDF-2. There is a chance of more Supervision gunboats out there though...

There's at least one more.

they ran across it on the way to the factory sattelite.

[wolframbane]

There were actually at least 6 Super Dimension Fortress (SDF) vessels within the Macross universe.

1/ SDF-1 Macross (from Super Dimension Fortress Macross, Macross Plus, and Macross II)

2/ SDF-2 Megaroad-01 (from Macross Flashback 2012), even though the first Megaroad class ship had an SDF designation, there was no indication that the latter Megaroad ships (like Megaroad 13) ever did however

3/ SDF-6 Dark Queen II, this vessel has never been seen in any series, but has been referred to. Specifically, in an article that featured several VF-11 Thunderbolt squadron colors. There was one black VF-11 that had labelled on it the ship that it was assigned to, the SDF-6 Dark Queen II. No other infor other that was given. We can assume that it was active some time after 2030 (because VF-11s were introduced that year). There was an image posted on it a MW thread over a year ago regarding VF-11 Squadron colors (would any one still have a link to that thread or a copy of the image??)

4/ SDF-3 to -5, it is conjecture that these exist, to fill in the blank spaces between the SDF-2 and -6. This is similar to how the Excelsior class NCC-1701-B Enterprise was known to exist in Star Trek, despite the fact that it was not seen until Star Trek: Generations. There was an Enterprise-A (from Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home) and Enterprise-C (from 'Yesterday's Enterprise', ST: The Next Generation). The fact that it was an Excelsior class was from the montage of Enterprise models in Picard's office in ST:TNG.

EnterI can assume these exist

[Noyhauser]

Uhh if its not in the compendium ( and last I checked it isn''t) Its not canon. There are only two accorrding to Kawamori.

[Boxer]

Wolframbane; can you bring up the article to confirm this?

And does KAwamori say ONLY two SDFs? And at what point in history (Or does he even say?)

[azrael]

Aside from the New Macross fleets, has it been confirmed that the variable battle carriers were constructed seperately for fleet purposes? I know Steelfalcon mentions something like this, but I want to know if it's cannon.

At this point, we have no idea. There are 13 New-Macross class ships we know about and of those 13, 3 we know the most about. It could be safe to assume that there is one New-Macross class (Battle section specifically) out there for fleets, but their primary role is colonial escort.

Uhh if its not in the compendium ( and last I checked it isn''t) Its not canon. There are only two accorrding to Kawamori.

Wonder what fan-fic he got that one off of.......

[Boxer]

Huh. And of the New Macross Battle sections it seems that there's another variant from the Zentran and Human NM Battle sections- if you take VFX-2 as Canon. Battle-13 seems to be another class that looks more SDF like. I'll bet it's better armed too.

[Radd]

Actually, Battle 13 is a New Macross class battleship. Apparently the New Macross class ships are not identical. they all have the same basic structure with some asthetic differences. The Battle 5 for example, looked more Zentran in appearance. There's pictures of the line art of some of these ships floating around. Slight stylistic differences does not equate to a completely seperate class. I believe this sort of thing can be found in real world naval vessles of the same class having distinct visual differences.

And yes, VF-X and VF-X2 are officially canon.

[azrael]

Huh. And of the New Macross Battle sections it seems that there's another variant from the Zentran and Human NM Battle sections- if you take VFX-2 as Canon. Battle-13 seems to be another class that looks more SDF like. I'll bet it's better armed too.

Macross-05 (more specifically, Battle-5) was a Zentradi variant, however it still was a New-Macross class. Since the fleet was majority Zentradi, most of the ships were Zentradi. The frigates were redesigned with a more distinctive Zentradi look and the fleet also included the Neo Nupetiet-Vergnitzs bis-class.

http://www.anime.net/macross/mecha/united_..._bis/index.html

There probably are more of them out there.

Macross-13 (specifically Battle-13) is canon as Macross VF-X 2 is canon.

http://www.anime.net/macross/story/chronol...2040/index.html

The key to Macross-13 was the Sound Jamming system (or whatever it was called). The system rendered all tracking systems useless (i.e., you couldn't track by radar, any missile you fire would lose target look, including mini-missiles*).

*Note: We've theorized in the past that mini-missiles use IR tracking. But that's for another thread. In the game, you face a boss in a VF using the Sound Jamming system. When he activated it, you could not track him so you had to maintain visual on him.

[Boxer]

Was Battle-5 configured for a total full-size Zentran crew? (I'd imagine a Zentran fleet is geared more towards civilian full sized Zentreadi.)

Again, it hasn't been mentioned but I assume the Earth UN Spacy does not have any capability to produce Zentreadi ships (Only ground mecha and pods from the Factory Sattelite) Is this true? I don't have the latter DVD box set to Macross, so I can't tell.

[MAXXxxx]

1)My question is do other Super Dimensional Fortress-type units exist in the UN Spacy?

Afaik, the megaroad series is called SDF XY too, so megaroad 13 is also SDF14 (I could be wrong here)

2) Are there any heavy capital ships in the UN Spacy?

well the new macross battle carriers / uraga (class) carriers pretty well fit in this category. (+ a few upgraded Zentraedi ships)

3) The Factory Sattelite:

I know one was captured in Space War one, but were others also captured?

I know only one in possession , and quite a few production facilities around the galaxy (planet based / 3star mobile ships)

the biggest one on the moon, which is weird, because the resources would heve to be supplied from other systems --> I don't think it's efficient in the long run to ship material to Sol/Earth/Moon just to process it into ships

(of course could be wrong here, the asteroid belt could supply humanity with raw materials for a few hundred(or more) years)

[briscojr84]

If I remember correctly there have been several instances where the Megaroad and New Macross have both have had SDF Designations [forget where I read it but I remember reading it in some cannon source].

As for the factory satellite, I doubt if the UN is really worried about finding anymore, the satellite at this point I would conjecture could probably manufacture more ships and mecha and than they have personnel for.

[wolframbane]

Well I do have an extensive collection of Macross images from old threads. I may have to do some digging Boxer, but I do know I have the VF-11 from the SDF-6 tucked away somewhere. I will post the image as soon as I have it located

[Noyhauser]

Great, its not canon though. Go to http://www.anime.net/macross/mecha/index.html

Just because its a picture from a magazine does not mean that its official. ITs fan fiction. And if its name is the "Black Queen" that definately isn't cannon because the only thing it could be is a Megaroad Colony ship and those are designated by numbers. These MAY be called SDFs, but they are definately Megaroads. However I don''t think that after Megaroad-1 they were ever discussed as SDF-3, SDF-4.

Edited April 12, 2004 by Noyhauser

[azrael]

Well I do have an extensive collection of Macross images from old threads. I may have to do some digging Boxer, but I do know I have the VF-11 from the SDF-6 tucked away somewhere. I will post the image as soon as I have it located

You do know that there are lots of fan-colored shots out there, right? In fact, this book has a whole bunch in the back of it.

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/books/plus_tia.htm

All of the recolorings were done by Shigeki Ninomiya, who is not affiliated with Studio Nue, but is a fan of the series and has interviewed Kawamori on occassions.

[wolframbane]

Thanks azrael. That might actually be the book it was from. There are incredible pics of Squadrons in the book. I hope that I can still get the SDF-6 Thunderbolt pic (canon or non-canon), it was a nic design

[Druna Skass]

On the topic of the UN Spacy Fleet. What would be their plan of attack if they ran into another fleet on the scale of Bodolza's? Would the Earth defence fleet be adequet to drive off another 4 million+ strong fleet.

[Noyhauser]

One word.... Nukes.... LOTS AND LOTS of nukes.

I'm sure that UN Spacy would probably use something like seen in Macross II, a kind of planned culture shock strategy. What forces didn't capitualate were probably destroyed.

I think fighter design actually tells you a lot about how UN Spacy was thinking. Up until project supernova, the mainline fighters were very similar to the VF-1, which means they needed to carry out the same role as the VF-1. remember that the Zentredi can't uprgrade their weapons, so fighters similar to the VF-1 were adequate to take on a Zentredi threat. Really what the fighters are for is to mop up whats left after the use of nuclear weapons. However the Zentredi-UN Spacy peace treaty forbit their use.... but if their survival were at stake, I don't see them not using it.

[Smiley424]

I just always figured that once they built the Megaroad-class ships, they just abandoned the Macross-class ships because the Megaroads were larger, more powerful, and better design. Just my two cents.

[Druna Skass]

One word.... Nukes.... LOTS AND LOTS of nukes.

I'm sure that UN Spacy would probably use something like seen in Macross II, a kind of planned culture shock strategy. What forces didn't capitualate were probably destroyed.

I think fighter design actually tells you a lot about how UN Spacy was thinking. Up until project supernova, the mainline fighters were very similar to the VF-1, which means they needed to carry out the same role as the VF-1. remember that the Zentredi can't uprgrade their weapons, so fighters similar to the VF-1 were adequate to take on a Zentredi threat. Really what the fighters are for is to mop up whats left after the use of nuclear weapons. However the Zentredi-UN Spacy peace treaty forbit their use.... but if their survival were at stake, I don't see them not using it.

So it's the UN's nukes against the enemy's parcticle cannons?

[Noyhauser]

... no, the Minmay attack would probably be used to distract a force, then then a full barrage would be used. Its also feasable that the Grand Cannons would probably be put into place as well (nothing has been said that they wouldn't be rebuilt afterwards) and they did play a pivotal role in allowing the Macross to win.

[Radd]

I just always figured that once they built the Megaroad-class ships, they just abandoned the Macross-class ships because the Megaroads were larger, more powerful, and better design. Just my two cents.

Well, we don't know that the Megaroad class was more powerful. Considering that it was primarily a colony ship class, they were probably lacking in firepower. That's a useless debate though, as we lack hard evidence either way. Even the Compendium is lacking in details on the Megaroad class.

[Impreszive]

I agree. I don't really think we will ever know much about the Megaroad ships outside of conjecture, and relative lack of information. Ona personal not, I didn't like the design. I thought the old Macross had/has more class.

[hellohikaru]

Is this the Dark Queen II unit someone was referring about ?!

[Boxer]

... no, the Minmay attack would probably be used to distract a force, then then a full barrage would be used. Its also feasable that the Grand Cannons would probably be put into place as well (nothing has been said that they wouldn't be rebuilt afterwards) and they did play a pivotal role in allowing the Macross to win.

Grand cannons are earth-based weapons. What would the UN spacy assemble to take on say another base the likes of Badolza's ship?

There's a VF-11 with the SDF-6 on the side. I know fighter units use VF as their fighter designations, so is SDF a kind of fighter group registration no. or is this reference to a fan SDF?

[Skull Leader]

Is this the Dark Queen II unit someone was referring about ?!

gag..... I could do without the rainbow stripes on the fastpacks...

[azrael]

Yep, that pic is from the book I mentioned above.

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/books/plus_tia.htm

It has about 16 pages of fan-art by Shigeki Ninomiya, who did the paints on the image. It's all fan-art. In fact, IIRC, it inspired a few guys to do their own squadron markings. Check around the RPG networks. You should see some fan-art/squadron repaints. Some of them were pretty good. Of course, it was all fan-art.

[Impreszive]

I've been trying to find that book for years. The only one I ever see is with "evil book guy" at the conventions I go to. He's selling it for some absurd price. Like $150.00

[RichterX]

Is this the Dark Queen II unit someone was referring about ?!

gag..... I could do without the rainbow stripes on the fastpacks...

The people of the UN Spacy know anything about camouflage?

the rainbow stripes are saying "shoot me, shoot me"