GodMedia Posted April 9, 2004 Posted April 9, 2004 It has long been stated that religious topics of any form will not be tolerated on the forums. As religion and any mention of religion is seen as being of a controversial nature due to the myriad views towards religion, this appears to be a fair and well-conceived policy. The moderators have always been quick to lock, edit, or completely delete topics dealing with religion. However, the topics they delete are often those which seriously seek to promote or to denounce religion, be it a specific faith or faith in general. What appears to continually be allowed on the forums are those topics that openly mock faith and/or the elements of faith. If we are going to have a forum that is truly free of all religion, then all topics that mention religion in any manner must be banned. This must include those topics that make fun of religion, or that can be deemed as insulting by members of a given religion. I am sure that among the various members of MacrossWorld there are a good amount of Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Agnostics, Atheists, Christians, and those who really don't care about religion in any manner at all. That being the case, it is unfair to any of these groups to make light of their beliefs, or lack of beliefs. This being said, I call for better policing of the forums when it comes to anything even remotely related to any faith. We are here to discuss an anime, not the eternal truths of the universe, and we do not need to mention anything for, against, or in jest of any other person's faith in order to discuss that anime. This is MacrossWorld, and it should remain about Macross. -Emilio Espinosa
Blaine23 Posted April 9, 2004 Posted April 9, 2004 (edited) What if it's an anime that questions faith? I know EVA has tons of religious symbology in it... are we supposed to pretend that it doesn't? Or ban talking about it? I know where you're coming from GM, but without seeing any specific examples... is calling for more moderation really neccessary? Edited April 9, 2004 by Blaine23
fulcy Posted April 9, 2004 Posted April 9, 2004 Sounds alot like this topic... http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=5776
Roy Focker Posted April 9, 2004 Posted April 9, 2004 This what the guidelines state, Section III: Never Allowed #1. No religious or political debates. If you want to talk politics go to the proper outside forum. Not everyone shares your beliefs. Nothing starts more arguments then these kinds of debates. They have value but they have no value here. This isn't meant to stop all mention of anything that sound religious. It is meant for what really offends, preachy or start argruments. We all know that people are going to ask, "did Max do the sign of the cross?" People are also going to ask if something in an anime has some sort of religous significance. These things will bring up religion in how it is related to a macross or sci-fi topic and have a right to be here. What doesn't have a right is someone who uses these topic to get their own pro or anti religious view across. All religious topics (once we see them) get's our attention to see if goes over the line. I know the topic that GM has in mind. The use of religious like subject matter in humor isn't new. The criteria I look for in such a comment is it likely easily to offend more just one person. Is much different then what you find on the TV? Like I say with other things if multiple people are offended it will be adressed.
Agent ONE Posted April 9, 2004 Posted April 9, 2004 GM, Specifically what are refering to? PM it to me.
Max Jenius Posted April 9, 2004 Posted April 9, 2004 GM, Roy just basically said what I told you in PM last night. If we are to scour religion from the forums, then we'd also have to remove your user name. I mean, why stop with just topics? Regligion can piss people off right? So why risk having a member with a name Godmedia. Honestly dude, they were having fun. And for those wondering what the topic in questions is; http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=7041 You know, that's pretty minor. I'm suprised you haven't said anything about all the "Crom" bullshit going around the forums. Man did that get old fast.
bandit29 Posted April 10, 2004 Posted April 10, 2004 Honestly dude, they were having fun. And for those wondering what the topic in questions is; http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=7041 You gotta be kidding me....sorry but some of our members are just too sensitive to be complaining about that. Like you said just some members having fun.
JsARCLIGHT Posted April 10, 2004 Posted April 10, 2004 Oh you have got to be kidding me... THAT topic is what started this thread? Allegory, dude. Allegory. I half expected to see someone burning bibles or something (and I got my smores kit out for nothing...).
azrael Posted April 10, 2004 Posted April 10, 2004 Sounds alot like this topic...http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=5776 Geez....You know, if you do a little editing, then yeah, it would look like a carbon copy of that thread...
Max Jenius Posted April 10, 2004 Posted April 10, 2004 Now guys, retract those claws. Gm, you're a valued member of this board and we do respect your opinions, but don't you think that's being a little too anal? You're free to express your beliefs and there haven't been any problems in the past. Its when people bring these topics into debates that feelings get hurt and bad blood is made. There's difference between that and taking something from a text and altering it. If this is not to be allowed, then we wouldn't be able to discuss many of the things that we enjoy as there are constant references to assorted ancient traditions, including but not limited to the bible in our everyday life.
fulcy Posted April 10, 2004 Posted April 10, 2004 (edited) Wow, that thread doesn't seem that offensive... Edited April 10, 2004 by fulcy
Nightbat Posted April 10, 2004 Posted April 10, 2004 Wow, that thread doesn't seem that offensive... if you believe in "Zero Tolerance" it is... Ah, parodies,... now we know why some artists would like to crusify Weird Al Yankovich
tom64ss Posted April 13, 2004 Posted April 13, 2004 (edited) GM, Roy just basically said what I told you in PM last night. If we are to scour religion from the forums, then we'd also have to remove your user name. I mean, why stop with just topics? Regligion can piss people off right? So why risk having a member with a name Godmedia. Honestly dude, they were having fun. And for those wondering what the topic in questions is; http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=7041 That's it????!!! That's what was offending you???! What's offensive about that thread???!! No seriously. I read it three time, and I still don't know what your getting upset about. I want the ten minutes I wasted reading this thread back. Alright, I was joking on that last part. If anything in that thread can cause it to be locked for bringing up "religion", I gotta agree with Max that your name should not be allowed either. It has a lot more to do with religion than anything that was mentioned in that thread. You getting upset with that thread, is like if I got upset with the Engrish thread for being racist 'cause I'm Asian. Your being way too sensitive GM. Edited April 13, 2004 by tom64ss
J A Dare Posted April 13, 2004 Posted April 13, 2004 hmmm...I thought Macross was a religion? And Macrossworld is where we worship?
Stamen0083 Posted April 13, 2004 Posted April 13, 2004 That thread is offensive, especially to GodMedia, is because it implies that Shoji Kawamori is God, which, to a Christian, is offensive because it is idolatry. It is not about Christianity or any other religions being flamed, it's about one of Christianity's main beliefs being ridiculed, and even though I'm as anti-religion as the next guy, I can see where he's coming from. Just a thought.
bsu legato Posted April 13, 2004 Posted April 13, 2004 If somebody was honestly, truly worshipping SK as some sort of deity and was spreading their "gospel" here on MW, then there would indeed be a breach of the rules. However, AFIK everybody understands the "Froating Head" bit to be a joke. If people are going to be that thin-skinned about such trivial things on the internet, then I suggest they stay home, bolt the doors and board up the windows. Otherwise, butch up and laugh it off. If the 'joke" is not to ones liking, then simply don't click on that topic.
Blaine23 Posted April 13, 2004 Posted April 13, 2004 That thread is offensive, especially to GodMedia, is because it implies that Shoji Kawamori is God, which, to a Christian, is offensive because it is idolatry.It is not about Christianity or any other religions being flamed, it's about one of Christianity's main beliefs being ridiculed, and even though I'm as anti-religion as the next guy, I can see where he's coming from. Just a thought. Would it be even more offensive if someone photoshopped the Froating Head onto a golden calf? Or just equally as offensive? J/K - but making a point that this about humor, not religion. The Forum rules offer no protection against humor getting under your skin. But I also doubt that GM can't see the difference between a joke and idolatry. If I had to make a guess, the mocking of the Lord's prayer was probably enough to push this into debate-land. I can see how that would be offensive to a minister, even though I do not believe for an instant that the post was designed to do anything more than get a laugh.
Stamen0083 Posted April 13, 2004 Posted April 13, 2004 Would it be even more offensive if someone photoshopped the Froating Head onto a golden calf? Or just equally as offensive? Haha. J/K - but making a point that this about humor, not religion. The Forum rules offer no protection against humor getting under your skin. But I also doubt that GM can't see the difference between a joke and idolatry. Indeed, it is humor, but to the devoutly religious, this kind of joke is equivalent to ethnic slurs, in a sense, so I see GodMedia's point. However, I think there are things out there far worse than the Froating Head joke. This is rather trivial.
Pat Payne Posted April 14, 2004 Posted April 14, 2004 (edited) GM, Roy just basically said what I told you in PM last night. If we are to scour religion from the forums, then we'd also have to remove your user name. I mean, why stop with just topics? Regligion can piss people off right? So why risk having a member with a name Godmedia. Honestly dude, they were having fun. And for those wondering what the topic in questions is; http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=7041 You know, that's pretty minor. I'm suprised you haven't said anything about all the "Crom" bullshit going around the forums. Man did that get old fast. He's angry about that??? Here I thought someone had cried "Deus Voit!" ("God wills it!," Urban II's words that launched the First Crusade, 1098) or "Allahu Akbar!" or something like that in a thread. The thing is, I think GM has been a little touchy about religious things because he's come across some people who are just as enthusiastic as him in the other direction (i.e. hard-core athiests who will brook no evidence that people do believe in religion and are quite happy thankyouverymuch) and it distresses him. He is rather devout, after all (not a bad thing, but it can be carried too far at times) My own opinion is that both have to take a pill. On the one hand, GM should grow a little thicker skin (some advice I could take on occasion, BTW ) and realize that some trolls will latch onto his Christianity to cause trouble. However, that doesn't mean that we have to excise every mention of religion if it incidentally impacts on a thread topic. And he was laying it on just a tad thick for some's comfort for a while. On the other hand, those who kept razzing him mercilessly in another thread (don't remember the specific one) because he was open about his faith need to get a life. Religion exists (whether or not God exists is still an open [unanswerable? ] question), and people do believe. Why should people's faith offend them so much if they personally don't believe? EDIT IN: If I had to make a guess, the mocking of the Lord's prayer was probably enough to push this into debate-land. I can see how that would be offensive to a minister, even though I do not believe for an instant that the post was designed to do anything more than get a laugh. Ooooooooookay...I have to admit I missed that post. That is a little creepy, and even though I'm not terribly religious, I don't want to be praying to a guy who created a TV cartoon any more than I'd erect a temple to Gene Roddenberry... Edited April 14, 2004 by Pat Payne
tom64ss Posted April 14, 2004 Posted April 14, 2004 ..... to a Christian, is offensive because it is idolatry. But should we as a board have to follow Christian thinking? That's an offense in Christianity, but not an offence on a "NON-RELGIOUS BOARD" If the whole point is to keep MW and religion seperate, than Christianity's rules should have no bearing on what is accepted on this board. That rule was made to keep people from attacking someone else's religious belief, and idolatry is not an attack on Christianity. If we were to impose rules in order to not offend religions, should we ban all mention of eating beef in fear of a sensitive Hindu? Should cheeseburgers not be mentioned in order to not offend a kosher Jew? To say that religion should be seperate from this board, and then try and impose one of the rules of one particular religion is both contradicting and just plain stupid.
Sumdumgai Posted April 14, 2004 Posted April 14, 2004 Political correctness sucks. It's up to the mods and Shawn, that's that. They make the rules, they guard all the gates, they hold all the keys. There is no anomoly. There is no spoon.
Max Jenius Posted April 14, 2004 Posted April 14, 2004 ..... to a Christian, is offensive because it is idolatry. But should we as a board have to follow Christian thinking? That's an offense in Christianity, but not an offence on a "NON-RELGIOUS BOARD" If the whole point is to keep MW and religion seperate, than Christianity's rules should have no bearing on what is accepted on this board. That rule was made to keep people from attacking someone else's religious belief, and idolatry is not an attack on Christianity. If we were to impose rules in order to not offend religions, should we ban all mention of eating beef in fear of a sensitive Hindu? Should cheeseburgers not be mentioned in order to not offend a kosher Jew? To say that religion should be seperate from this board, and then try and impose one of the rules of one particular religion is both contradicting and just plain stupid. yup.
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