Agent ONE Posted April 7, 2004 Posted April 7, 2004 http://www.blackwaterusa.com/ These are the merc guys who got roasted in Iraq last week... They have employment opportunities, even more now! I think these guys make $130k per year.
wakobi Posted April 7, 2004 Posted April 7, 2004 (edited) Yeah great, and you end up taking a rusty bullet in the head from the hands of some untrained 16 year old scrout who has barely used an AK for a few months Such is war I guess Edited April 7, 2004 by wakobi
Agent ONE Posted April 7, 2004 Author Posted April 7, 2004 THAT wasn't their only mission you know... These dudes are killing fools all over the planet.
Anubis Posted April 7, 2004 Posted April 7, 2004 (edited) With the right prior experience that could be a hell of a job opportunity. I knew a few former SP's that would probably have jumped on that. Edited April 7, 2004 by Anubis
Jolly Rogers Posted April 7, 2004 Posted April 7, 2004 (edited) These are the merc guys who got roasted in Iraq last week... I wouldn't trivialize the loss that way, especially considering one of them was a very close friend of my buddy. Edited April 7, 2004 by Jolly Rogers
the white drew carey Posted April 7, 2004 Posted April 7, 2004 (edited) These are the merc guys who got roasted in Iraq last week... I wouldn't trivialize the loss that way, especially considering one of them was a very close friend of my buddy. I hate to say it, but 4 people brutally massacred out of 8+ billion left in the world? Unless the dead are personally known to you, it is trivial. And these guys knew the risk, they knew they were being paid well for it and, unlike our armed forces, they had a choice to be there. Edited April 7, 2004 by the white drew carey
JsARCLIGHT Posted April 7, 2004 Posted April 7, 2004 The life of a "merc" as people call them is neither glorious or profitable. "Mercs" tend to be ex-military or police who have low morality, no many marketable skills (outside of killing people) and usually have a nice sized death-wish. Most true mercinaries are third worlders, born into a life of daily survival from street gangs, militias and drug dealers... so making money for killing people is just a bonus for their "normal life" risks. As illustrated in this terrible situation most "guns for hire" never live long enough to cash their paychecks, hence why the pay is so high. What person in their right mind would walk into a warzone and do something that usually goes against most military rules of engagement knowing the same will be thrown back at them (the ops that mercs usually run have no laws of war and if caught or killed you can usually plan on getting "roasted" as Agent so eloquently stated)? Then again there are some people out there, the Shin Kazamas, Sgt. Barnes and Spike Spiegels of the real world who once they have the stink of gunpowder and blood in their bones they can never escape it until it kills them.
Sundown Posted April 7, 2004 Posted April 7, 2004 I'm not sure if Blackwater is actually a "Merc" shop. I've always heard of them referred to as a training and consulting organization-- and maybe hired on as body guards or for security detail. But I don't think they actually send folks out there specifically to kill people and break things... although positioned where they are, that might indeed happen. Can anyone confirm? -Al
the white drew carey Posted April 7, 2004 Posted April 7, 2004 I'm not sure if Blackwater is actually a "Merc" shop. I've always heard of them referred to as a training and consulting organization-- and maybe hired on as body guards or for security detail. But I don't think they actually send folks out there specifically to kill people and break things... although positioned where they are, that might indeed happen. Can anyone confirm?-Al From dictionary.com: mer·ce·nar·y    P   Pronunciation Key  (mûrs-nr)adj. Motivated solely by a desire for monetary or material gain. Hired for service in a foreign army. n. pl. mer·ce·nar·ies One who serves or works merely for monetary gain; a hireling. A professional soldier hired for service in a foreign army. I'd say it's pretty damn close. Realistically, a merc is nothing more than a trained gun for hire, which is not exactly the same as the "Kill Squad" scenario that JsARCLIGHT suggests. I'd say these men are mercenaries, since the one common motivating factor is money, and sometimes the "danger" (or the thrill of it). The reported problem , it appears, with these "private security firms" is that very often they don't hire very well-trained individuals. Also, I guess the real military has issues with their professionalism as well. Here's a quote from an article in this week's TIME: "Those Blackwater guys," says an intelligence officer in Iraq, "they drive around wearing Oakley sunglasses and pointing their guns out of car windows. They have pointed their guns at me, and it pissed me off. Imagine what a guy in Fallujah thinks." Either or, until more (if any) information arises regarding the specifics of the ambush, including any actions taken by the Blackwater employees, we can only base our judgments on their actions from what little we've learned already.
Opus Posted April 7, 2004 Posted April 7, 2004 I'm not sure if Blackwater is actually a "Merc" shop. I've always heard of them referred to as a training and consulting organization-- and maybe hired on as body guards or for security detail. But I don't think they actually send folks out there specifically to kill people and break things... although positioned where they are, that might indeed happen. Can anyone confirm?-Al I think they mostly just provide training similar to what the Green Berets/CIA do only on a private level. They're probably run by the CIA.
J A Dare Posted April 7, 2004 Posted April 7, 2004 Either or, until more (if any) information arises regarding the specifics of the ambush, including any actions taken by the Blackwater employees, we can only base our judgments on their actions from what little we've learned already. I doubt we'll get much info as they were hired by DOD. heh...you got there state sponsored mercenaries.
JsARCLIGHT Posted April 7, 2004 Posted April 7, 2004 Sundown is right I believe. The group mentioned in this thread is more or less a "hired goons" service. They put on a pretty front of calling them "Security specialists", "tactical consultants" and other BS terms but basically they are selling combatants... people who have "been there", "know things" and impart their knowledge to others while being hired muscle in the meantime. Most of the time they are used as these folks were used: rent-a-cop / rent-a-soldier / rent-a-commando. Companies rent folks like these to do their dirty work / wetworks that a pencil pusher or private dick cannot handle. If you ask me (and with all due respect) those "professionals" totally misread the situation they were walking into and got themselves dead. It happens. Then again perhaps their hands were tied by the people that hired them... then that pretty much plays back into the whole "hired goons" just doing what the man with the money says thing. Any way you slice the pie in the end those boys were paid mercenaries, they died for money not because they wanted to be there and fight the good fight. And then again who is to say that all wars and this whole situation is not one big fight about money.
J A Dare Posted April 8, 2004 Posted April 8, 2004 From there website: Blackwater Security Consulting (BSC) is the newest addition to the Blackwater family of companies serving security, firearms and training needs around the world. Blackwater has deployed teams across the nation and the globe in support of federal, state and private industry interests. Blackwater's security specialists have extensive experience in all dimensions of domestic and international security operations, particularly in high-risk zones. Blackwater provides services to the United States government, as well as local state and federal law enforcement. BSC can provide the following services:http://www.blackwatersecurity.com/services.html I don't know about you, but since most of their "specialists" are culled from ex-spec ops personel, they'd be wasting their skills on just being hired trainers and bodyguards, know what I mean. Besides, I can see why Uncle Sam would hire mercs. If they get killed, no blood on Uncle Sam's hands since they are not government issued Joes. I believe I read somewhere there are approximately 2,000 "security specialists" running around Iraq now.
Sundown Posted April 8, 2004 Posted April 8, 2004 Any way you slice the pie in the end those boys were paid mercenaries, they died for money not because they wanted to be there and fight the good fight. And then again who is to say that all wars and this whole situation is not one big fight about money. Can't you do both? =) I'd always gotten the impression that these folks tend to be deployed in places as insurance, with the hope that bad things *don't* happen-- rather than in places where one's sure they will. I guess they're basically "mercs"-- but I tend to associate the term (erroneously) with being used on more pro-active missions and tasks. Oh, and the Oakley's thing isn't hardly confined to the Blackwater folks. They're a staple of the no-bs special warfare and law enforcement communities. -Al
Jolly Rogers Posted April 8, 2004 Posted April 8, 2004 Apparently none of you even bothered to read a brief bio on Scott. He might have been the youngest SEAL grad, but he never saw any combat while serving in the Navy and he worked as a fitness and movie consultant (he trained Demi Moore for GI Jane). Thanks a lot for generalizing the entire herd based on 1 ass misbehaving...
bsu legato Posted April 8, 2004 Posted April 8, 2004 As a famous smuggler once quipped, What good's a reward if you aren't around to spend it? Even if they were making as much as Agent ONE suggested, it still wouldn't be enough to get my selfish ass over there. If I were going to go play in the "sandbox," it would have to be for the big, BIG bucks. What's the reward on Osama these days anyhow?
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