My stand on these recasting threads

[wwwmwww]

Actually that is not true. When you submit a kit to be licenced, the frist question they ask you is "How many do you want to sell?" Then they base that number against the price you want to sell it for. This amount dictates how much you have to pay the compny issuning you the sub-licence. 20 is the average that most people accept so they don't have to pay higher royalties to the company. If you want to sell 50 or 100, then you have to pay more money to the company issuing the licence. BW or other companies do not set a limit. Wonder Festival does limit the amount of kits you can sell if you are new. If you return the following year you can sell more. Basically a resin kit designer will choose to make a limited amount of his item so he can charge more. If you are a larger company than you do get special consideration. Basically when you get issued the stickers you have to pay the money then. Doesn't matter if you actually sell the kits at the event or not.

As far as Macross kits go at the Festivals, we may see an extreme decline in the amount of kits released. BW is limiting the amount of Stickers issued from now on. I have already applied for a re-issue of the licence for my Pod and they have basically said NO, and this stems from the current legal issues going on. I would imagine that until it is settled. I personally am hoping that this is lifted sometime soon as I want to get other kits licenced.

Rob MN

Thanks for the info. This is the first time I've heard some of these details.

Carl

[wwwmwww]

Such a thing is almost unheard of in the garage kit industry.  I can't think of a single case of that happening.  It happens fairly frequently in the plastic kit industry (such as when Bandai accuired Imai's kits), but probably almost never with resin kits.

The closest case I can think of is the Monocrast Legioss & Tread kit. NewType bought the original master and cleaned it up (making a few improvemnets) and "re-issued" it. Thing is I don't think NewType paid ANY licencing fee to re-issue it. Monocraft had bought the licence for Japan so in their eyes they were ok releasing the kit here in the U.S. I wonder what the reaction here would have been had I been able to buy the VB-6 master from I.H.P and I had asked Valkyrie to "re-issue" it. If you get right down to the legalities is this VB-6 recast project any more "right" then when we were trying to buy them strait from I.H.P? I.H.P never bought a licence to sell his VB-6 outside of Japan.

Personally... (and that's all I can really speak for here) I'm ok with the VB-6 project. I know if I ever see an original I.H.P VB-6 on the market I will still buy it so my action is having zero impact. I won't presume to tell others how to feel on the subject. Although to the comment that was raised earlier why the big recast shops don't get themselves into legal trouble if this activity is in fact illegal. I was once told that in HK and a few other places where the big recasts shops are set up that the country doesn't recognize the copywrite of 3D shapes that are based on 2D copywrited images. I'm not sure if that's true or not and it doesn't seem to explain all the bootleg DVD's that are made in these same areas but if its true then those recasts are actualy legal if not ethical.

I respect the view expressed on both sides of this fence. If you feel you are doing something wrong by supporting this VB-6 recast project then I'd say don't support it. But if anyone thinks its going to slow down my hunt for an original they are wrong. If anything it might actually increase the value of the few originals once this recast gets in the hands of a few collectors like myself and they feel the need to pay due homage to its creator by hunting down one of the very few originals. Take Shawn for example. Yes he has one of the Noel 1:48 VF-1S recasts but you don't see him eager to sell either of his two originals. I just don't see all recasting as bad especially when its being down on a small scale and not with intent of making a profit. In some cases I believe it even helps promote and enhances the value of the original. Outside of those here at MacrossWorld how many people in the US do you think are even aware of the I.H.P VB-6? If one of these recasts ends up on eBay I'd expect that number to take a VERY big jump.

Then again maybe I live in a dream world...

Carl

Edited April 4, 2004 by wwwmwww

[Myersjessee]

Carl...good points that I agree with...and emulate myself....I find, often...if I get a recast I often want the original...there are 4 reasons behind this:

1) I like to have more then 1 kit....Im always worried I will mess it up...so having an original "up my sleeve" and the recast that I feel less worry risking is nice....then thereb are kits like the Club M Qrau...where I wanted more then 1 because I want to do more then 1 version

2) The originals are always better....less generational shrinkage, normally more detail (unless it is remastered)

3) Completist...as much as I say I am a hobbiest first I do like to have the box and all the cool stuff that goes with a kit.

4) Oft times I am so taken with a kit that I want the best version possible...original.

Examples of this type of behavior with me.

1 - Musasiya VF2SS - bought the E2046 recast...then hunted down the original

2 - Club M QRau - bought a recast....then hunted down the original

3 - Club M VF4 - as above

4 - Club M 1/48 Ultimate Strike - bought Noels recast...still looking for an original

5 - Tanmen Fan Racer- recast to originals (as above)

6 - NewType and Monocraft Legioss and Treads - again..found a recast first (on Ebay) of each...then tracked down originals

7 - WF 1/72 Ghost - Same trick

8 - Orange Collection VT1 - Bought the recast...liked it so much I tracked down and bought all the Macross Orange collection kits available

9 - 1/48 Reppu Eager - bought the recast...tracked down the original

10 - WF 1/72 Battroid - Ditto

And Im sure there is more. The interesting thing is since I couldn't see anything but pictures of these kits I doubt I would have spent the money on the originals for all of them initially. The Legioss and Tread (for instance) while a favorite of mine was so expensive for a small model I could not rationalize it...then I got the recast and knew I had to find a way to get the original....and in all these cases I paid high $'s for the originals...so...I would argue in my case not only did recasts not hurt the market, it helped it. (BTW...anyone got an original 1/48 Ultimate for me!?!?! )

[Jolly Rogers]

For example, in the case of the VF-4, its maker, Club-M is now defunct. And while technically, it's true that another company could buy the rights to the kit, and re-issue it, I find that to be very unlikely. Such a thing is almost unheard of in the garage kit industry. I can't think of a single case of that happening. It happens fairly frequently in the plastic kit industry (such as when Bandai accuired Imai's kits), but probably almost never with resin kits.

Unheard of? Here's one example for you: Kotobukiya had some Gundam GKs made in the late 1980s / early 1990s whose molds were acquired by B-Club and reissued years later.

[Valkyrie]

For example, in the case of the VF-4, its maker, Club-M is now defunct.  And while technically, it's true that another company could buy the rights to the kit, and re-issue it, I find that to be very unlikely.  Such a thing is almost unheard of in the garage kit industry.  I can't think of a single case of that happening.  It happens fairly frequently in the plastic kit industry (such as when Bandai accuired Imai's kits), but probably almost never with resin kits.

Unheard of? Here's one example for you: Kotobukiya had some Gundam GKs made in the late 1980s / early 1990s whose molds were acquired by B-Club and reissued years later.

I did say "almost unheard of", didn't I?

[VFX]

if I get a recast I often want the original...

I think the only time I every did that was for the WAVE 1/100 VF-11.

I think a point needs to be made about recasts for personnal use as opposed to recasts to be sold for profit. I have a collection of the old Tect 1/144 conversions for the Macross 7 1/144's. They are hard to come by, and the ones that I own have been recast for my personnal use. (I.E. I want to make variations, or multiples of the same kit example: VF-11 Gerwalk with fast pack and one without). So I recast alot of kits and parts for my own purposes. I factor in the cost of RTV (not cheep) VS the cost of buying another kit. And it can come out 50/50 either way.

As for buy recasts, I don't have a problem with buying recast of event only kits.

I also buy recasts of B-club kits still in production. I have bought b-club originals in the past and will continue to do so. However there are certain instances that B-club, being a sub-company of Bandai/Sunrise, jacks up the price on Gundam resin kits way too much. 14490 Yen for an 0080 GM Sniper conversion, etc. So I choose, as a consumer, to flip them off for thier greed and buy a recast for 1/3rd the price.

[Replicant Mechanic]

I see a lot of people on both sides of the recasting issue and I have a question about your opinions on recasting. If these kits are released as event only kits in Japan and in quantities of twenty do you feel it is wrong to recast them? I understand the opinions about money and incentive for the original casters and how recasting lowers the profit/incentive to make more kits but what about these kits? They are only released in Japan so your chance of getting one is non-existant unless you go to Japan for the event or buy one on the internet later at an inflated price. With only 20 of them in the world chances are not good you are even going to get one then. Are recasts a good/bad thing for these kits?

[Mallet21]

I'll be the first to admit that I am pretty naive/uninformed about the garage kit business and I can see merit in both arguments. Obviously the kit maker would not want to see his creation copied.

but....

As a kit maker I would also have a problem with people buying my product with no intention of ever putting the model together. It seems like people go to these shows buy up the kits and sell them down the road for 4 times their original price. Pretty soon the price is so high you're afraid to ever put the model together and forever stays in pieces.

[VFX]

With only 20 of them in the world chances are not good you are even going to get one then. Are recasts a good/bad thing for these kits?

For the modelling community recast of these kits are good. Especially for those who live outside of Japan who would have a snowballs chance in Hades of getting them otherwise.

I don't feel that recasts effect the serious collectors market as collectors are only after an original for it collectable/investment value. I once recieved an email from a person chastizing me for building a numbered limited edition resin kit and posting pics. My response to him was, "I'm a modeller not a collector. If I can't build it, I don't want it."

Edited April 6, 2004 by VFX

[EXO]

just wanted to bump this... a lot of recast talk lately...

[pfunk]

just wanted to bump this... a lot of recast talk lately...

oh boy, here we go again,,,,,BTW Im recasting a full size Maclaren F1 if anyones interested

[Grayson72]

Oh god not again, get over it.

[Less than Super Ostrich]

everyone's entitled to their opinion, but grayson's right... i think we already beat this horse to death.

[EXO]

Sorry, I meant to bump Shawn's first post. Not the debate.