My stand on these recasting threads

[Shawn]

Hi everyone,

Sticky subject time....

I've noticed a few recasting threads popping up here and there recently.

First off, I cannot be a hypocrite. I have one of Noels 1/48 Ultimate Strike valk recasts(does it matter that I have 2 authentic Club-M 1/48 kits? not sure...LOL). I was excited it came out, and many were sold in public on these boards without the MW hammer coming down.

I see a similar Monster thread right now. Ok, its the first major fan recast since the 1/48, and it is rare as hell. Even being done by a very dedicated member here. Maybe once in a while one of these public fan projects is ok...stirs up the creative 'juices' and re-energizes many in the group.

Now I see another one for the 1/48 YF-21 saying 20 requests are needed.

Who is right? Who is wrong? Is it moral? Does it hurt anyone? If it wasn't for the WF limit to 20 kits...If I already own 2 originals...There are only 10 ever made...It'll never be made again...The original creator's company is defunct...I tried to get an original but the creator wouldn't do it...

Not going to get into the arguments above-my own opinions differ a little on each specific reason as do most of yours, but thats not the point, I'm not going to preach, I'm only going to say one thing.

Lets just keep being the respectful community we are and not go nuts with this recasting stuff.

Thank you!

Shawn

[Myersjessee]

very good point Shawn....and point taken....it's just...well..to me...the community is about modeling...not collecting. I have paid $350 plus for a model kit...more then once in fact...when I can buy things...I do. (my closet filled with $1000's of dollars worth of models can attest to that) It just feels wrong that some of these beutiful art works are sitting in closets somewhere and people can't build them. I would love it if we could contact the artisans and get their permission...if I knew how, I would. Im not trying to get preachy, and I promise to try and continue to be respectful. It just seems most of our hearts are in the right place. Valkyrie did a gorgeous VF4 recast...I'm certain he did it for the love of the kit not profit ...and it created much good will... Rohby's JM the same.... Its not like we are Monsters in Motion, HobbyFan, or E2046...it feels more like a group of friends....a family helping each other revel in the hobby we love so very much...so much so that we escape from reality here and share our dreams, goals, successes...and failures here. I know there are boards where I would be flamed and hated for even mentioning recasting. Boards where people buy their models and toys MIB and hermetically seal them away...I don't want to become a recast shop..but I do like the balance we have.

Anyways..its your board...and I dont want to make you, or anyone else uncomfortable...if I am ever out of line, you have my word, there will be no hard feelings, and no bad blood...please...simply say the word and I will back off.

Thank you for your wonderful site, and this wonderful family that I love to share my passions with.

Edited April 1, 2004 by Myersjessee

[to177]

Now I see another one for the 1/48 YF-21 saying 20 requests are needed.

Hi Shawn,

It was I who created that thread. Your point is clear and my apologies if I have caused any havoc in this community My intention was of no mean to be rude or disrespectful to anyone in any way for my selfish purposes. I figured there was so many of us who had the same interests, that we can help each other out. Unfortunately, sometimes it leads to the issue of "recast" with a kit that rare.

If you feel I'm out of line, plz just tell me...and I'll chill out Thanks for the awesome site and community I cherish so much.

to177

[Shawn]

Once in a while seems ok as I initially wrote-

Simply due to their apparent popularity in the responses I don't want this to turn into the base for a ton of new recast projects be based from as you can understand

S

[Less than Super Ostrich]

I admit to have a moral dilemma about these recasts. I own two, but primarily a result of not being able to find the originals. I know that's not a good excuse. Like Shawn, I'm a little worried about the precedents that these recasting projects are setting. Fortunately, I know that Valkyrie is VERY discriminating about which projects he will take on... he makes sure that the kits are out of production, so as not to upset the creative flow out of the original manufacturing company.

Which brings me to my next point. I would encourage people to consider buying the 1/100 scale Monster once SMT puts it out. It is an original creation by Gundamhead. Its not perfect variable, but the cost will be much lower ($150) and you know that SMT makes great stuff. The point is simple... I would imagine Gundamhead is very displeased about the IHP kit recast project because it provides him substantially less incentive to create new product. I want to make sure he knows that we stand behind him and that it would be in his best interest to continue investing time in creating original Macross related resin kits.

[Grayson72]

makes sure that the kits are out of production, so as not to upset the creative flow out of the original manufacturing company.

I think this is the key right there.

[Culverin]

um. i'm new here and a total amateur when it comes to modeling.

but aren't recasts illegal? i mean even if the company's gone, isn't it the sculptor's perogative not to have his work duplicated?

but call me a hypocrite. i probably wouldn't have a problem buying a recast kit as long as the quality is good... speaking of which, how does quality on a recast stack up to original production runs?

[to177]

but aren't recasts illegal? {/QUOTE]

Don't know if it's illegal. But I know many people do buy recast sometimes cuz the original kit is either out of production or rare. Just like DVD bootleg, I'm sure it's illegal...but you can always get a copy of a new release in other country.

[Tristan Lindo]

If it is illegal why do stores like Hobbyfan and e2046 sell tons of recast, without the cops knocking on their doors?

[Chronocidal]

I think the main issue is whether the company that originally produced the kit is defunct or not. If they're out of business, unless the molds got sold to someone who would reproduce the kit later, likelyhood is that you may never see that kit again. Recasting it may be the only way of ever getting a copy of the kit.

Personally, in the case of something as rare as the YF-21, I'd recast it myself, and build the recast, instead of building the original kit. So, in a way, recasting allows the collectibility of an item to be preserved, and still allows you to enjoy the product.

[ewilen]

IANAL but to my eyes, recasts pretty clearly infringe on the copyright of the owner of the original design (Big West) as well as the licensed creator of the sculpt.

Nevertheless, the cops don't knock on people's doors because de minimis non curat lex. It's too small an issue for the authorities to care about, plus if the actual copyright owners don't bring suit, there's no case.

Particularly with scifi, especially with comics and animation, and most especially with Japanese anime and manga, small-scale use of copyrighted materials without permission in adapations or doujinshi is tolerated and probably regarded as good publicity. So Big West probably wouldn't care that much anyway. The creators of the sculpts may or may not care--but they probably lack the legal resources to pursue recasters.

Edit: just wanted to provide an opinion on the legality issue. However, I think this is far more of an ethical issue, which others are speaking to.

Edited April 1, 2004 by ewilen

[EXO]

Legality aside, the issue here is the site owner's (our host) wish to not make this the place where people would naturally look for unauthorized recasts. Recasting as a subject (and as merchandise) on MW was pretty common concerning the armors and boosters of the 1/55 Bandais. But since the reissues and the release of the 1/48, attention has shifted to unavailable resin kits.

The difference between the 1/55 recasts and the new projects was that the 1/55 recasters had their own sites. And with the new kit recasts, it seems like MW is their home. (I'm not laying blame or anything, I have an order down for the Konig. I'm just pointing out a fact.)

I don't think MW is a haven of unauthorized recasts. But I think Shawn just wants to keep it from becoming one.

Thanks.

[cobywan]

I think we just need to use more discreet communication. May the PM should be used more.

[Jolly Rogers]

I admit to have a moral dilemma about these recasts. I own two, but primarily a result of not being able to find the originals. I know that's not a good excuse. Like Shawn, I'm a little worried about the precedents that these recasting projects are setting. Fortunately, I know that Valkyrie is VERY discriminating about which projects he will take on... he makes sure that the kits are out of production, so as not to upset the creative flow out of the original manufacturing company.

Which brings me to my next point. I would encourage people to consider buying the 1/100 scale Monster once SMT puts it out. It is an original creation by Gundamhead. Its not perfect variable, but the cost will be much lower ($150) and you know that SMT makes great stuff. The point is simple... I would imagine Gundamhead is very displeased about the IHP kit recast project because it provides him substantially less incentive to create new product. I want to make sure he knows that we stand behind him and that it would be in his best interest to continue investing time in creating original Macross related resin kits.

Moral / ethical issues aside, as was pointed out on several occasions already, recasts devalues the potential of a new license or new production run of an existing kit.

Even with a GK that's already out of production or the company that released is no longer around, the fact that people are recasting it devalues the original and makes the prospect of making a new production run unprofitable, whether by the original company or a new company looking to acquire the mold from the defuct company that owns it.

Many will say "Hey, I don't give a rat's ass as long as I get myself a cheap kit." Trust me, it will hurt you. When people stop buying original kits in anticipation of cheap recasts, the original sculptors will stop working on new projects (Gundamhead's hesitation being a prime example) since they won't be able to sell enough kits to cover their time and effort put into the project. Eventually many gifted artists will leave this hobby and the consumers (us) get shafted in the end with less new kits released and an overall decrease in sculpt quality.

People who are serious about finding a kit they want, even if's extremely limited and has been out of production for a long time, will eventually find it if they persist long enough. I think people just use excuses like "but Yahoo Japan auction sellers don't ship internationally!" "they don't take PayPal!" when the truth is there are always ways to get around whatever stands in your way if you want a kit badly enough and are willing to pay for it.

I'm as cheap as the next guy and will pinch pennies every which way I can, but one must realize that this is a hobby and not a necessity. There's this entitlement mentality where people think they have a right to a kit and it shouldn't only be available to the rich and collecting type who don't build their kits. If you cannot afford it, go work your tail off and come back when you've earned enough to afford it. It'll be all the sweeter when you have a legit kit that was bought with your own blood, sweat and tears.

[Myersjessee]

Moral / ethical issues aside, as was pointed out on several occasions already, recasts devalues the potential of a new license or new production run of an existing kit.

Even with a GK that's already out of production or the company that released is no longer around, the fact that people are recasting it devalues the original and makes the prospect of making a new production run unprofitable, whether by the original company or a new company looking to acquire the mold from the defuct company that owns it.

I would disagree with part of this. Recasting a kit would devalue the original, but I would argue thats all based on scale of the recast...5-10 extra kits available in the US to a small community of a kit available in lots of 20 for a couple WF's in Japan...well..the fact is most collectors wouldn't even know...but that asid...in general I agree a recast devalues the original.

I don't believe a recast (especially small quantities) devalues the chance of other companies doing it...in fact, quite the contrary...if companies see there is a demand they can be more confident in filling that need...Im certain Yamato and Bandai watched sales at WF, Hobyyfan, and others to gauge the interest in their investment. I dont see there being a tie...but I would say if a company does pick up the line it does devalue the original. For instance...if ClubM came back to life and resissued the 1/48's the originals would drop in value quick. (for proof...see the Bandai reissues and how they effected the value of the original Takas and Bandais...even the non-reissued VE and VT. )

Anyways...point is not to offend the artisians so they keep doing what they do best...which I am all for.

[tom64ss]

Which brings me to my next point. I would encourage people to consider buying the 1/100 scale Monster once SMT puts it out. It is an original creation by Gundamhead. Its not perfect variable, but the cost will be much lower ($150) and you know that SMT makes great stuff. The point is simple... I would imagine Gundamhead is very displeased about the IHP kit recast project because it provides him substantially less incentive to create new product. I want to make sure he knows that we stand behind him and that it would be in his best interest to continue investing time in creating original Macross related resin kits.

Uhhh, I know this isn't the the most important issue in this discussion, but I'm pretty sure Gundamhead's Monster was a scratch build of the regular Monster, not the VB-6 variable. I don't see why one would interfere with the sales of the other. Besides, I think most of the resin head around here will need to own both.

Gundamhead's Monster:

IHP VB-6:

[Neova]

A thought popped into my mind while reading everyone's posts. I see re-casting as a way to preserve what was long lost and unobtainable. I agree with the moral, ethical and legal issues in general but never being able to enjoy something as much as the original designer had wanted is also a bad thing.

Think of all of those replica of out of production cars out there. There is a very SMALL hard core group of enthusiasts who work together to re-engineer, copy, share resources and inform other enthusiasts of the same interests.

When car companies saw this, they went back to "remake" the oldies for a mass market audience.

Granted, the model community is way smaller but the availability of 10-20 kits AT MOST for the whole community (did not factor the world) actually hurts the enjoyment of the designer's creation.

I hope the designers will take look at how much people actually enjoy their work and instead of pointing out how we are deriving them of income (for unavailable products or defunct companies, this argument holds no water), work together with the community or someone and make their designs available again. Those who choose to limit the availability of their work do not raise the value of their creations but instead, only inflate their egos.

Business and egos don't mix.

[Grayson72]

I think a little perspective is in order, Macross is a cartoon and we're debating about lumps of plastic and resin. This isn't world hunger or third world debt or anything.

[Tristan Lindo]

IANAL but to my eyes, recasts pretty clearly infringe on the copyright of the owner of the original design (Big West) as well as the licensed creator of the sculpt.

Nevertheless, the cops don't knock on people's doors because de minimis non curat lex. It's too small an issue for the authorities to care about, plus if the actual copyright owners don't bring suit, there's no case.

Particularly with scifi, especially with comics and animation, and most especially with Japanese anime and manga, small-scale use of copyrighted materials without permission in adapations or doujinshi is tolerated and probably regarded as good publicity. So Big West probably wouldn't care that much anyway. The creators of the sculpts may or may not care--but they probably lack the legal resources to pursue recasters.

Edit: just wanted to provide an opinion on the legality issue. However, I think this is far more of an ethical issue, which others are speaking to.

oh... ... thanks for clearing that up

[Jolly Rogers]

Granted, the model community is way smaller but the availability of 10-20 kits AT MOST for the whole community (did not factor the world) actually hurts the enjoyment of the designer's creation.

I hope the designers will take look at how much people actually enjoy their work and instead of pointing out how we are deriving them of income (for unavailable products or defunct companies,  this argument holds no water), work together with the community or someone and make their designs available again. Those who choose to limit the availability of their work do not raise the value of their creations but instead, only inflate their egos.

Business and egos don't mix.

I suspect the "20 kits max per con/year" rule was established as a way to control quality. As you can see, big resin manufacturers like Kotobukiya and Kaiyodo are not bound to such rules, since they have the resources to produce a large quantity of high quality kits. Most, if not all, of these convention-only kits are true garage kits that's usually the labor of love of one person who handles pretty much the whole project from the beginng to the end. Limiting the number of copies that can be sold ensures that the caster won't go crazy making too many kits at the expense of quality, and should the GK turn out to be an embarrassment, the damage done would be minimal. As you know, this rule was established by license holder (e.g. Big West) and not the people who design the products (e.g. sculptors), so the artist's ego does not come into play at all.

Recasting of unavailable products or ones from defunct companies deprives the license holder of potential income from the license holders and the sculptors. The existence of recasts reduces or even eliminates potential interest from third parties to acquire the license to make new kits or reissue long extinct ones. With plans of new kits or reissues scrapped, companies and sculptors have less projects to work on and therefore their future/potential income reduced accordingly. As if that is not bad enough, the kit buying public also loses out because we are deprived of new and exciting kits and potential reissues as well.

I think I heard this whole "public enjoyment" argument during the Napster fiasco, which obviously did not work at court.

Edited April 3, 2004 by Jolly Rogers

[Grayson72]

Granted, the model community is way smaller but the availability of 10-20 kits AT MOST for the whole community (did not factor the world) actually hurts the enjoyment of the designer's creation.

I hope the designers will take look at how much people actually enjoy their work and instead of pointing out how we are deriving them of income (for unavailable products or defunct companies,  this argument holds no water), work together with the community or someone and make their designs available again. Those who choose to limit the availability of their work do not raise the value of their creations but instead, only inflate their egos.

Business and egos don't mix.

I suspect the "20 kits max per con/year" rule was established as a way to control quality. As you can see, big resin manufacturers like Kotobukiya and Kaiyodo are not bound to such rules, since they have the resources to produce a large quantity of high quality kits. Most, if not all, of these convention-only kits are true garage kits that's usually the labor of love of one person who handles pretty much the whole project from the beginng to the end. Limiting the number of copies that can be sold ensures that the caster won't go crazy making too many kits at the expense of quality, and should the GK turn out to be an embarrassment, the damage done would be minimal. As you know, this rule was established by license holder (e.g. Big West) and not the people who design the products (e.g. sculptors), so the artist's ego does not come into play at all.

Recasting of unavailable products or ones from defunct companies deprives the license holder of potential income from the license holders and the sculptors. The existence of recasts reduces or even eliminates potential interest from third parties to acquire the license to make new kits or reissue long extinct ones. With plans of new kits or reissues scrapped, companies and sculptors have less projects to work on and therefore their future/potential income reduced accordingly. As if that is not bad enough, the kit buying public also loses out because we are deprived of new and exciting kits and potential reissues as well.

I think I heard this whole "public enjoyment" argument during the Napster fiasco, which obviously did not work at court.

Don't care

[Neova]

I suspect the "20 kits max per con/year" rule was established as a way to control quality.  As you can see, big resin manufacturers like Kotobukiya and Kaiyodo are not bound to such rules, since they have the resources to produce a large quantity of high quality kits.  Most, if not all, of these convention-only kits are true garage kits that's usually the labor of love of one person who handles pretty much the whole project from the beginng to the end.  Limiting the number of copies that can be sold ensures that the caster won't go crazy making too many kits at the expense of quality, and should the GK turn out to be an embarrassment, the damage done would be minimal.  As you know, this rule was established by license holder (e.g. Big West) and not the people who design the products (e.g. sculptors), so the artist's ego does not come into play at all.

Thanks for clarifying the kit limitations. My reference to EGO refers to those artists who consciously CHOOSE to limit their kits irregardless of licensing. There is one person withholding models (paid for or not) to MWers who comes to mind. It is their choice though.

Recasting of unavailable products or ones from defunct companies deprives the license holder of potential income from the license holders and the sculptors. 

This is true from a legal standpoint but also speculative about the property in discussion. When a product ceases production, its demand can be ascertained by the market's request for it. If no action is attempted to meet that demand, then the potential income is ZERO either through the negligence of the copyright holder, sculpter or other reasons including inability to produce, didn't see the demand or somehow lost interests in the property. They would not have been able to provide for that market in the first place.

Its like saying "People are hungry, yet I can't cook, farm, source food or do anything for them." Where is the potential income then? If you don't have the ability to provide, you won't make that income. There are customers waiting and willing to pay up to point. If you can find that equilibrium and the ability to provide, you will have that income.

However, copyright infringement is a real issue whether the copyright holder can or cannot provide. There is no question about this.

The existence of recasts reduces or even eliminates potential interest from third parties to acquire the license to make new kits or reissue long extinct ones.  With plans of new kits or reissues scrapped, companies and sculptors have less projects to work on and therefore their future/potential income reduced accordingly.  As if that is not bad enough, the kit buying public also loses out because we are deprived of new and exciting kits and potential reissues as well.

I think I heard this whole "public enjoyment" argument during the Napster fiasco, which obviously did not work at court.

I fully see your points here. But at the same time, there is a percentage (really small percentage) of those who would have paid for the originals which is mostly the target we are seeing here. Again, it goes back to:

1. See market potential

2. Ability to provide

3. If you can, work on it. If not, and someone else can, so be it.

Damn. After writing this long ass response, Grayson nailed it in the head. We're talking about a few lumps of plastic. Even if we're all passionate about it.

[robokochan]

I suspect the "20 kits max per con/year" rule was established as a way to control quality. As you can see, big resin manufacturers like Kotobukiya and Kaiyodo are not bound to such rules, since they have the resources to produce a large quantity of high quality kits. Most, if not all, of these convention-only kits are true garage kits that's usually the labor of love of one person who handles pretty much the whole project from the beginng to the end. Limiting the number of copies that can be sold ensures that the caster won't go crazy making too many kits at the expense of quality, and should the GK turn out to be an embarrassment, the damage done would be minimal. As you know, this rule was established by license holder (e.g. Big West) and not the people who design the products (e.g. sculptors), so the artist's ego does not come into play at all.

Actually that is not true. When you submit a kit to be licenced, the frist question they ask you is "How many do you want to sell?" Then they base that number against the price you want to sell it for. This amount dictates how much you have to pay the compny issuning you the sub-licence. 20 is the average that most people accept so they don't have to pay higher royalties to the company. If you want to sell 50 or 100, then you have to pay more money to the company issuing the licence. BW or other companies do not set a limit. Wonder Festival does limit the amount of kits you can sell if you are new. If you return the following year you can sell more. Basically a resin kit designer will choose to make a limited amount of his item so he can charge more. If you are a larger company than you do get special consideration. Basically when you get issued the stickers you have to pay the money then. Doesn't matter if you actually sell the kits at the event or not.

As far as Macross kits go at the Festivals, we may see an extreme decline in the amount of kits released. BW is limiting the amount of Stickers issued from now on. I have already applied for a re-issue of the licence for my Pod and they have basically said NO, and this stems from the current legal issues going on. I would imagine that until it is settled. I personally am hoping that this is lifted sometime soon as I want to get other kits licenced.

Rob MN

[DARTHTODD]

My opinion is that this all comes down to the quantities produced of a recast and as previously discussed, whether or not this item is still being made as an original. First of all, I agree that the item should be out of production. However, if you're recasting an item (that's out of production) and making tons of copies of it, making a large profit, and even perhaps advertising this recast, that's pushing it in my mind. But if it's done in small quantities, minimal profit margin, & when there is a demand and no product to buy.....I don't see a problem.

Just look at antiquities, there are so many copies of antiquities out there, are they all wrong or unethical because they copied something? I sure don't think so. Also, Macross/collecting in general is not my life. I don't have thousands of dollars sitting around that I can spend on extremely rare items as I'm sure most of you don't either. I can't afford to buy some of these originals and I never will be able to. If people want the "exclusives" and have the money, let them buy the originals. But let recasts be made for the rest of us. I don't think that because I'm not rich, I shouldn't be able to enjoy an item or a copy of an item. The originals will always be worth more than the recasts and be more sought after anyway, I don't think anyone doubts that.

And I have to say Grayson has a point, we're talking about "toys/collectibles" here. Let's not get too worked up over this.

BTW, people said CD sales were going to plummet because of file sharing....they didn't. I think this is similar. Recasts can create an excitement in collecting and inspire others to get involved in a genre or even modeling itself. That is a good thing. All in all, if done in moderation and when there is no product available, recasting is great in my eyes.

[Myersjessee]

...

As far as Macross kits go at the Festivals, we may see an extreme decline in the amount of kits released. BW is limiting the amount of Stickers issued from now on. I have already applied for a re-issue of the licence for my Pod and they have basically said NO, and this stems from the current legal issues going on. I would imagine that until it is settled. I personally am hoping that this is lifted sometime soon as I want to get other kits licenced.

Rob MN

Thats disconcerting...ACK..

[Less than Super Ostrich]

Don't care

You will when you're not gettin' the kits you want.

[MSW]

My opinion...if we all spent as much time on developing our scratch building/ sculpting skills as we do discussing, searching, and saveing up for these model kits (either originals or recasts) ... well... we may very well find that we don't need them because we can scratch build / sculpt them ourselves

course too people are often damn lazy...it's easyer to bitch about not haveing any "leet" artistic skills then it is to use that time to develop and practice them

[Tristan Lindo]

My opinion...if we all spent as much time on developing our scratch building/ sculpting skills as we do discussing, searching, and saveing up for these model kits (either originals or recasts) ... well... we may very well find that we don't need them because we can scratch build / sculpt them ourselves

course too people are often damn lazy...it's easyer to bitch about not haveing any "leet" artistic skills then it is to use that time to develop and practice them

that's a good idea MSW.

I have been thinking about that for some time now, but I don't know how to get started.What kinds of tools and materials do you use? any tips?

[Grayson72]

Don't care

You will when you're not gettin' the kits you want.

Well if that day comes, which it never will, I'll just pay someone to sculpt whatever I want.

[Noyhauser]

Don't care

You will when you're not gettin' the kits you want.

Uhh we can't get the kits anyways unless we recast them.... Seriously was a VB-6 recast going to happen anytime soon? Doubt it.

Moreover, a scuptor is not going to lose major profits through recasting. If a kit has gone through its first run, a sculptor probably already banked on that being his profit margin, and probably wasn't planning on additional runs later to supplant his profit . I don't see too many low run resin kits being recasted by its sculptor at a later date because its not worth it. The same goes for major studios. Studio Half Eye has already made its profits from its Perfect variable series and has moved on. If they thought more profits could be made they would recast these things but they don't, so we are stuck.

I agree though that talk of it should be kept to a minimum. Maybe it should be reffered to Shawn before hand?

[Valkyrie]

Guess it's about time I chimed in here.

Some good points have been made in this thread. Both in favor of and against recasting. And for both sides of the argument, there have been several points I agreed with. But I won't use any of them to justify my actions. I'll just say that morally speaking, my conscience has been clear, because I honestly don't think I've deprived anyone of potential profits.

For example, in the case of the VF-4, its maker, Club-M is now defunct. And while technically, it's true that another company could buy the rights to the kit, and re-issue it, I find that to be very unlikely. Such a thing is almost unheard of in the garage kit industry. I can't think of a single case of that happening. It happens fairly frequently in the plastic kit industry (such as when Bandai accuired Imai's kits), but probably almost never with resin kits.

And so I see the odds of potential profits being lost as very low.

But all the same, this discussion makes me all the more eager to move away from recasting and get going doing what I got into resin casting to do -- scratchbuilding my own original resin kits. I've got my casting technique down rather well, so now all I have to do is hone my sculpting skills

[Grayson72]

But all the same, this discussion makes me all the more eager to move away from recasting and get going doing what I got into resin casting to do -- scratchbuilding my own original resin kits. I've got my casting technique down rather well, so now all I have to do is hone my sculpting skills

I've got some great and simple ideas to get ya started when you're ready

[ewilen]

I would like to reiterate a point that was made here but which I don't think was very well understood. If this is redundant, please accept my apologies. Also, I don't mean to cast aspersions on anyone at all--my goal is to clarify something which is relevant to deciding in your own mind how you feel about recasts.

Let's say company X did a kit, but company X is now defunct. There's no prospect of someone reissuing the kit. Then yes, it's true that a recast isn't directly going to cost anyone any profits. So let's say that under those circumstances it's okay to do a recast.

Now put yourself in the position of a model collector/builder. Some small company, Y, has just issued a one-time run of a certain kit. The price is reasonable, but you've only got so much money/space/time for enjoying your model kits. Maybe you'll want the kit someday, but right now, you'd like to put it off. Here's the point: you know you don't have to worry about Y going out of business, because if it does, someone is likely to make a recast. So you don't buy the kit. That reduces the marginal demand. Consequently, Y (and/or the licensor) can't make as much profit off the sales of the kit. This prospect makes Y (and/or the licensor) less likely to produce kits. (At least if they care about money.)

If it's generally accepted that recasts are okay under even looser criteria--because of rarity or whatever--then that is likely to reduce the marginal demand for new kits even more. Which further reduces the financial incentive for licensors and artisans.

Note that this only pertains to financial incentives. I'm sure people make kits for reasons besides the money (though even a labor of love is hard to pursue if you're losing money). Also, it's far from clear how strongly the expectation of recasts affects the marketability of original kits. But I'm sure the effect exists to some degree.

Edited April 4, 2004 by ewilen

[Valkyrie]

But all the same, this discussion makes me all the more eager to move away from recasting and get going doing what I got into resin casting to do -- scratchbuilding my own original resin kits.  I've got my casting technique down rather well, so now all I have to do is hone my sculpting skills

I've got some great and simple ideas to get ya started when you're ready

Nah, quite alright. I've already got several scratchbuild projects planned

Most are Macross related, and several have been started, in one form or another.

[Myersjessee]

But all the same, this discussion makes me all the more eager to move away from recasting and get going doing what I got into resin casting to do -- scratchbuilding my own original resin kits.  I've got my casting technique down rather well, so now all I have to do is hone my sculpting skills

I've got some great and simple ideas to get ya started when you're ready

Nah, quite alright. I've already got several scratchbuild projects planned

Most are Macross related, and several have been started, in one form or another.

Well...for my sake I would hope you do not stop recasting... as long as some amount of control and ethics are in place I think it enhances the modeling hobby.