Ace Combat 5

[David Hingtgen]

There's got to be some other requirements for wingmen kills--they aren't boosting mine at all, I've been watching very closely. That, or they're not making a single kill. Do you have to have multiple of the same planes, and have them fly while you fly? Because giving someone my one F-15C for a few missions doesn't fill its bar at all. Same for everything else. Or do you need multiple F-15's so all your wingmen have it?

BTW--the F-14B kicks all sorts of ass.

PS--I really wish the killbar was displayed in flight---if I had made 1 fewer kills, I wouldn't have the F-14B for the current mission.

PPS---yes, there's no more red/orange/yellow targets. They're merely 'targets'. And you don't seem to know the point values until the debriefing. I have gotten a few S ranks, a few A, a few B. My only suggestion is to really listen to ground chatter---bad guys really tend to "pop up" from nowhere. Like "Whiskey Corridor" only worse.

[Shmitty]

not too mention you gotta really push and pull the throttlel to get response.

You know there's a screw at the bottom of the throttle to adjust the resistance? Loosen that a bit and it should require less force to move it.

Edited October 27, 2004 by Shmitty

[mikeszekely]

Wingmen kills are definately supposed to count, but the wingmen suck. Trust me. After 13 sorties, this is how my team stands:

Name - Total kills (air/ground)

Blaze - 327 (169/158)

Nagase - 10 (9/1)

Chopper - 7 (6/1)

Grimm - 5 (5/0)

And considering how long it took me to fill up the F-5E's bar, I think your wingmen could get maybe one or two kills and it'd look like the killbar for their plane didn't go up at all, simply because it's such a small fraction of the bar.

To that end, I'm not going to really focus on building up killbars now. Better planes unlock reguardless (I got the Su-27 after 12b; I would have got the F-15C if I'd gotten the A route on the coin toss). Then, after I beat the game, I can go back and focus on specific planes until I unlock them all.

[hellohikaru]

I haven't pick up my copy yet but how does the wingmen work ?

Is there a way to say split up your wingmen(give them individual commands) like having Nagase cover you and Blaze going off to attack with Grimm as his wing ?

[David Hingtgen]

mike--You missed 12A? Oh man, that's probably my fave mission so far. I'd love a Flanker, but since the F-15C is my childhood fave plane...

hellohikaru: No. This is what the wingman commands actually do:

Cover: sit behind you and shoot anyone who gets between them and you.

Attack: they attack your current target.

Disperse: go after targets near you, but not your target. They will NOT go way off and leave you alone.

[mikeszekely]

David - Yeah, I missed 12a, but I was just thinking that you missed 11b! Because that was my favorite mission so far!

I'm not crying over the F-15C. When I was a kid, I always liked the F-14 better. As an adult, I respect the combat capabilites of the F-15 family, just as I respect the F-16 family, but I'm not a huge fan of either. I tend to like fighters based on appearance, reguardless of performance.

And in the long run, it doesn't matter, because it looks like you get the F/A-22 reguardless (althought the YF-23 comes after a story branch... you either get it or the F-35, which is why I suggested you'd be better off if you could get the B paths).

[mikeszekely]

Hmm, I'm at 16b. B path again. I wonder if, once you start an A or B, you're stuck with it for the whole game?

[hellohikaru]

Can you opt to bring fewer wingmen or the charge you wingman's pay like in AC2 ?

That A & B branching reminds me of Ac2. Guess it adds to the replaybility that the AC4 didn't quite have.

[mikeszekely]

Can you opt to bring fewer wingmen or the charge you wingman's pay like in AC2 ?

That A & B branching reminds me of Ac2. Guess it adds to the replaybility that the AC4 didn't quite have.

There's a lot of stuff in Ace Combat 5 that reminds me of 2, but no, you can never ever get rid of the wingmen. They're main characters... in that sense, AC5 is more like AFDS.

[hellohikaru]

A couple more question guys:

1. If you bought a certain plane(say F-18C) for your whole outfit(5 of them) and suppose you purchase one of those special weapons...do the rest of the guys automatically get them as well ?

2. Does the F-20A have AMRAAMs in the game ?

[Vostok 7]

YAY MINE SHIPPED!!!!!!!!!!! WOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

Vostok 7

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

The missles on the tigershark are sparrows but I think they work as AMRAAMs. You can't buy special weapons, each plane is already equipped with one, and you cannot buy additional(a MAJOR peeve....ideally the F-14A should be able to carry phoenix in the game but its limited to sparrow, adn teh D should be able to carry everything the A/B do).

The mission intro music is DEFINITELY AC2 inspired. Arcade mode pisses me off because you cant save missions, only fligth time and you can only use the F-22. While it is fun....come on....need variety here!!

Im stuck on the simultaneous radar destruction stage. Dont know what the hell to do.

[Duke Togo]

Ah yes, the radar destruction stage. Took me about 6 tries before I got the hang of it. Use missles, fly up on your target fairly quickly, but hold off just enough, following the countdown. When you get down to 10, speed up on the target, and launch around 1 or 2. Once you get a feel for it, you'll be fine. If you get there too quickly, just do some slow turns until its time. Fair warning, there is alot more to the mission than that.

[mikeszekely]

The missles on the tigershark are sparrows but I think they work as AMRAAMs.  You can't buy special weapons, each plane is already equipped with one, and you cannot buy additional(a MAJOR peeve....ideally the F-14A should be able to carry phoenix in the game but its limited to sparrow, adn teh D should be able to carry everything the A/B do).

The mission intro music is DEFINITELY AC2 inspired. Arcade mode pisses me off because you cant save missions, only fligth time and you can only use the F-22. While it is fun....come on....need variety here!!

Im stuck on the simultaneous radar destruction stage. Dont know what the hell to do.

I HATED that stage! Basically, you have to get up enough to the target that you can see it, but not too close... if you pass over it, it will detect you.

It took me SEVERAL tries to get that mission down... but here's a few things I picked up...

When Edge starts counting, you want to be able to see it.

When Edge says there's 10 seconds left, you want to be about 7000ft away from the radar. If you're further than that, kick in the afterburners. If you you're more than 12,000ft away, you're just screwed.

The radars need to be destroyed simultaneously. That is, no shot at simulatneously, but hit. You actually want to fire when the count hits 3 (maybe 2 if you're close).

Because the radar rings are closer together as you move inward, the counts are shorter. For the first two, you have some time to get into position, but after you hit the second one, you really have to haul ass to get to the next two in time.

After the the radar rings, you have a bunch of targets and lots of time to shoot them. But, some of the targets are actually inside of some buildings. I forget which plane I was flying, but it was probably still that damn F-5E. I assigned my wingmen some good air-to-ground planes like the A-10A, but as I've previoulsy mentioned, they're useless. I eventually decided I had to get the targets myself... I took them out by flying very high, then flying straight at the ground toward them, firing off two shots, then pulling up at the last minute. It was the only way I could get a good angle on them.

*Edit* Oh, yeah, I almost forgot. You can fly any plane you own in Arcade mode, but I think you have to finish either the campaign or the Arcade mode first.

Edited October 28, 2004 by mikeszekely

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

what th hell? UGh did one of AFDS's designers go on Ace combat 5? this mission SUCKS. You mena to tell me ALL 4 radars need to be hit by YOU, Blaze within nagase's countdown? UGHHHHHHH what the hell!!!!!

[David Hingtgen]

I don't recall a radar mission anything like that. Branching path?

Now on mission 24. Mission 23---not too hard, but annoying. Su-35's seem to be able to outrun ANYTHING, the only way to hit is to get in ultra-super-close gun-range, and let off Sidewinders.

Mission 18/19/20---all hard, no save, no plane change. Big main plot points/changes stuff, lots of cut scenes. Mission 19--run like hell. F-14B's are not fast enough, I died several times (but couldn't change planes since F-14B's rock in mission 18 and didn't want to go through it again).

F-35C is quite good according to the stats, haven't used it myself yet, I just give it to Archer all the time. Gripen is surprisingly attack-heavy with the Typhoon being air to air.

[Druna Skass]

ATTENTION RAZGRIZ SQD.

OK for those who haven't found out yet, here's how to choose between A and B paths.

http://acecombat.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=2148

[mikeszekely]

ATTENTION RAZGRIZ SQD.

OK for those who haven't found out yet, here's how to choose between A and B paths.

http://acecombat.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=2148

In other words, David is more positive than me!

[mikeszekely]

I don't recall a radar mission anything like that. Branching path?

Yeah, the crappy radar mission is 12b, Four Horseman. But it's so worth it... I still love 11b.

[David Hingtgen]

Won. Hope you like the main theme song, you'll hear it a lot in the final missions. At the very end, I had 799 kills, Nagase 20, and everyone else single digits. Only got an A on the final mission, that's going to suck to try to go through again and get an S. I think all wingmen combined had like 8 ground targets, so don't ever bother giving them an A-6. Just give them all F-15C's and hope they cover you in your A-6/A-10 etc.

All in all, the only planes I ever got upgraded were F-5E>F-20, and F-14A>F-14B. Got 16 and 18 and 22 halfway, others not worth mentioning. (Since I didn't have the YF-23, I had to use the F-22 for my all-purpose plane late in the game)

Free Mission also includes an enemy-less option, if you just want to cruise around and look at the scenery. No music when there's no enemies though.

Haven't decided if I need to go get all S on Normal, or win on Hard, for my next task. Through sheer luck I snagged the "prototype plane parts" hidden in the final mission, so I don't need to go through again.

Final mission---I sure hope you got good at AC4's final mission, this is worse. Actually, it's lot more like AFDS's final mission. A lot. Even I go to "first person" mode for that. But don't worry, you don't have to go in space or anything.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

oh god....I knew it...someone from konami is sabotaging namco's ace combat series!! LOL.

I JUST finished mission 12B after like 20 times. I did what duke and mike mentioned, but I did some experiments. Here are my conclusions to beat this mission

1-TARGET radar 1ST. Then target control center

2-when nagase starts counting@ 5, FIRE

3-Go to the transport planes, eliminate any on ground and taking off.

4-when destroying the shelters, dive from above @ a 90 dgree angle. Suicidal yes but just go slow.

BTW F/A-18C or anything with LASM is GREAT for this mission.

submarine attack afterwards...my ass died after not climbing high enough after teh burst missle shows up. plane of choice? TORnado GR1(IDS?) god this plane is AWESOME with BDS...and and...anbd

THE WING SWEEP HOLY CHRIST THEY FIXED IT!!! and the tomcat too!!! No more sweep back all the way under 300 kts!!

[mikeszekely]

oh god....I knew it...someone from konami is sabotaging namco's ace combat series!! LOL.

I JUST finished mission 12B after like 20 times. I did what duke and mike mentioned, but I did some experiments. Here are my conclusions to beat this mission

1-TARGET radar 1ST. Then target control center

2-when nagase starts counting@ 5, FIRE

3-Go to the transport planes, eliminate any on ground and taking off.

4-when destroying the shelters, dive from above @ a 90 dgree angle. Suicidal yes but just go slow.

BTW F/A-18C or anything with LASM is GREAT for this mission.

submarine attack afterwards...my ass died after not climbing high enough after teh burst missle shows up. plane of choice? TORnado GR1(IDS?) god this plane is AWESOME with BDS...and and...anbd

THE WING SWEEP HOLY CHRIST THEY FIXED IT!!! and the tomcat too!!! No more sweep back all the way under 300 kts!!

Nah, use the F/A-18C again for the sub attack. Arm the LASM, shoot it once, and it dives. When it surfaces, get off two, maybe three shots with the LASM, and it has to permanently surface. Shoot it with two more, then climb. Once the burst clears, peg it twice more and you're done.

David - I got the YF-23. Seems the QAAM isn't as good as it was in AC4. Naturally, the YF-23 kicks ass... but the F/A-22 is a little bit better, and the Su-47 is more or less even with the F/A-22.

Using the tree was a kinda cool idea, but in practice, it seems to have been poorly executed. Why fly a plane like the F-14 for the whole damn game to try and get the F-14D, when they give you the F/A-22 and the Su-47 after mission 17? Well, after I beat it, I'll try to go back and work on the tree... but for now, I'm pretty happy with the YF-23, F/A-22, and the Su-47 in my hanger.

Oh, and David... there are four more prototype plane parts. I'll let you figure out where they are yourself, but that's basically how you unlock the Falken.

Oh, and did you play the final mission, or the final final mission? Seems there's a mission 27, then a mission 27A. Is it even possible to miss the final final mission?

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Mike, I chose the tornado mainly because I love the plane lol. I was doing high speed ground attack with the BDSP and I wanted to upgrade it as soon as possible. If I have a hard time I might try the hornet like you said.

BTW what the heck does ECCMP do?

and the guide, though it sucked like hell, did show that the F-22's numerical statistics are higher than teh YF-23s. So in reality while we all know the YF-23 outdid the raptor in many many things, in AC5 it sadly does not. Playing the F-22 gets boring though.

[mikeszekely]

Mike, I chose the tornado mainly because I love the plane lol.  I was doing high speed ground attack with the BDSP and I wanted to upgrade it as soon as possible. If I have a hard time I might try the hornet like you said.

BTW what the heck does ECCMP do?

and the guide, though it sucked like hell, did show that the F-22's numerical statistics are higher than teh YF-23s.  So in reality while we all know the YF-23 outdid the raptor in many many things, in AC5 it sadly does not.  Playing the F-22 gets boring though.

Ah, see, I personally never liked the Tornado. I wasn't real big on the F-15, because I just think it's too blocky... but the Tornado is worse! So, I assigned it to my wingmen a couple of times, but avoided using it myself.

As far as the YF-23 vs F/A-22 remarks, yeah, I was going by game stats. I'm not going to get into any discussions as far as which was really better. They both had their ups and downs. The brass decided to go with the F/A-22, while other people wish they'd have gone with the YF-23. I happen to like both designs a lot, and either choice seems to be more than a match for any other fighter out there, so I'm generally content. In a way, though, it's a shame both planes couldn't have gone into service.

*Edit* Oh yeah, ECCMP is kinda like an EMP, but instead of frying all electrical systems, it seems to only affect enemy radar. They're basically jammers.

Edited October 28, 2004 by mikeszekely

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

So being that ECCMP is limited to 5......you basically press the launch button and it jams all enemy radar for a few seconds? Hmm.....this should be a permananet jammer like on the whole time till your plane gets shot down. doesnt make sense to do it in bursts.

BTW did anyone notice that the wild weasel F-4G and teh A-6E both have gunpods? In reality niether had internal guns, so i thought external semislow firing cannonpods was a NICE touch. At first i was ljke "oh man wtf they added a gun to the A-6 just like in AC2...." then i was like..wait its on pods!!!

and the F-4G has a ECm bump on its fin too. THey really paid close attention to detail in this sucker.

BTW story is AWESOME and music is beter than 4.

[David Hingtgen]

Haven't flown F-4G yet, just unlocked it. Did notice F-4 flying controls are now PERFECT. Ailerons only move down, not up. Uses spoilers instead of an "up" aileron. I supposed the JASDF helped with that, they still have F-4E's in service. I don't think we'll ever see a correct F-14 because the JASDF doesn't have them, thus no "first-hand" knowledge/base visits for Namco staff.

I think "hard" builds up kill gauges faster. Got 75% of F-4E in 1 mission. Hard limits your gun ammo, but you still get a LOT. Seem to take a lot more damage though, I swear one missile did 88% on my F-20. Twice. Don't think it'll be much of a problem, I was never "shot down" the entire first run through. I either failed missions, hit the ground, or had a mid-air. Had a 95% damaged F-35 on the one mission I used it. (it's really good for one late mission). I think I took out more B-1B's in mid-airs than with missiles. (I don't like mission 4, but watch for an Ace F-4 early on, slightly SE)

Free mission DOES build up kill gauge, but VERY slowly. Utterly pointless unless you need like one more kill, and don't want to "waste" a campaign flight for it.

You must OWN a plane before you can unlock the special colors (either Yuke and/or Ace). If you take down an ace before you own their plane, the special color will not be there when you unlock that plane. You can kill the Ace F-14D very early on the second run-through, but you probably won't have the F-14D then, so you'll have to go back later and kill him again when you do.

ECCMP--I vote for "Electronic Counter-CounterMeasures Pack". Or Pod. But ECCM is a valid term. Jammer jamming, etc.

mikeszekely--absolutely true, pointless to "evolve" a plane, as you'll get next-gen stuff before you can upgrade. They should have made it take a LOT less kills to upgrade. Let me have the F-16 Block 60 before the Su-47 comes out...

I do like the Tornado, and use it on the anti-sub missions. Bomblet dispensers ROCK. Will try out Hornet next time, since there's so few targets in the stage you can't build the kill gauge at all so it doesn't really matter what you use. (I so want a Tornado ADV)

Finally---"add on" missions are denoted as "+" in the Free Missions. So the true final stage (which is pretty easy assuming your first AMRAAM volley works well) is "27+". The other "extra" stage is 19+. Which I actually tried to beat early on, before I figured out to RUN. I did well too, took out like 4 of the suckers and an E-767 with an F-14B...

Edited October 28, 2004 by David Hingtgen

[mikeszekely]

Finally---"add on" missions are denoted as "+" in the Free Missions. So the true final stage (which is pretty easy assuming your first AMRAAM volley works well) is "27+". The other "extra" stage is 19+. Which I actually tried to beat early on, before I figured out to RUN. I did well too, took out like 4 of the suckers and an E-767 with an F-14B...

Are you sure the other mission was 19+ and not 18+? 18 is the one where you hit the fortress, then the plus should be the run like hell part, and then 19 is the mission where you fly the Hawk.

Anyway, for 18, I'd given my wingmen some decent air-to-ground stuff. But, while I do give credit to Namco for actually making decent special weapons and actually making the air-to-air and the air-to-ground planes stand out a bit, I'd just unlocked the F/A-22, and wanted to fly it. So, for the running part, I wound up crusing past them, then I had to turn around or risk flying out of the combat area, because the actual running part hadn't started yet. When it did, I hit the E-767 and three fighters on one pass with the F/A-22's XMAA missiles, jetted past them, turned around, hit four more fighters, and made a beeline for the safe zone as fast as the figther would go.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

What sucks is that the F-14B cant be armed with other special weapons. Oh well. Nice seeing the BOMBCAT in a game!!! BTW this game blows the shi* out of AFDS. I think in comparison AFDS was RUSHED IMMENSELY and Namco took their time with AC5. I remember a year ago we would be talking about ace combat 4 and 2 here, and slightly under our noses, Ace combat 5 was announced!!!

I think I dreamt of it after I fell asleep after playing it. I mean EVERYTHIN in thsi game is better. From wing sweep to even the graphics...I was surprised. Replay mode in pass view is AWESOME.

And geez this thing is MUCH harder than AC4 and I am on normal mode. Hell I might go on to say that AC4's ACE mode isnt as hard as AC5's normal mode.

and the storyline along with the music is very good..........there are onjly a few things I would add to this if they make a part 6.

1-More than 1 special weapon equipabl per plane(Like AC4).

2-2 player mode

3-Online

4-More AC2 influenced music

5-Ability to play any stage in arcade mode or save progress

6-MORE WILD WEASEL OR ECM AIRCRAFT

7-More vintage planes like the Super Etendard and Super Crusader III/F-8

8-XFA-27/XFA-36 Game

9-A-6B Ironhand

10-Super Tomcat 21

11-YF-17 Cobra

12-F-111 series planes

13-Open ended missions( for example.....if you wanted to be a bomber your wingmen could take care of all air to air engagements)

[mikeszekely]

I'm on mission 27... man it's hard to fly down a tube with a bogey on your six. I got tagged just before the core, so I didn't finish it, and now I gotta get ready for work. I'll try to have the game finished by tomorrow morning.

With the shutters and the tube switching, it actually reminds me of the tunnes that go down into the Geofront in Ace Combat 3.

[David Hingtgen]

I got missile warnings, but don't think I was ever actually fired upon. I flew through "sorta fast". Some R1, but not afterburner. Used F-22.

PS--after the core, GO! Think ROTJ Death Star escape. And watch for low ceilings. (And high, there's a nasty spot mid-way) Like go up up down.

[Caufield]

I thought one could fly the Wild Weasel in AC5?

[Skull Leader]

Depends on which "wild weasel" you're talking about. Alot of aircraft assigned to ground-attack roles recieve the "wild weasel" designation. I think he wants to see more ground-attack variants than are in the game (which I think there are plenty of...?)

On 27 I got lots of tones, but I never got fired on (or if he did, I never got hit... which serves the bastard right... I wasted 6 missiles on him before I figured out I couldn't kill him). Razgriz-Black F-14Bs screaming out of the tunnel were an awesome sight.....

The music track "Unsung War" wins the award for game music piece of the year, hands down. I'm still trying to figure out if it's Latin, Russian, German, or some other germanic language... the opening words sound very much like Latin, but I only have monural sound on my TV, so I don't get a very clear sound... it sounds like latin for "Praise (Glory) be to the Razgriz" (literal) or "We Praise/worship the Razgriz" (more conventional). If it's Latin, and I ever get a hold of the lyrics (or at least get a clearer recording) I can translate the words no problem. If it's Russian, well.... I know less than a dozen words of Russian, so no chance there I suppose there is a small chance that Namco had a language "made up" for the hymn (much like John Williams did for "Duel of the Fates" for Star Wars). I plan on researching this further.

AS for what I would like to see in the next AC game (assuming there is one):

-Maybe a small flashback campaign (characters flying things like Crusaders or Thunderchiefs, early phantoms, skywarriors, Skyhawks, etc), but don't base the entire game on it

-The ability to coordinate operations on a grander scale (pick a second squadron to do a different mission at the same time, with random results based on how you outfit them)

-Command from an E-2C instead of that damn AWACS (just for a change of pace? this isnt' serious!)

Edited October 29, 2004 by Skull Leader

[hellohikaru]

What i would like to see in the next Ace combat:

1. Correct control surfaces for each plane. F-14s were based in Atsugi for so long and the still get the stabs wrong.

2. Don't have both sides fly the same type of planes

3. Ability to play the story from both sides

4. Fire the Konami guy who makes those crazy missions.

[Project Phoenix]

Hey guys, Phoenix here.

Let me just say that it double convinces me of the capabilities of the PS2 to deliver such photo-realistic graphics using a non high-end graphic processor(aka Xbox).

AC5 makes us players feel like we're part of an epic rather than a hero-takes-all-wins-all type. The characters, for once, feels human and that we could empathize with them as more and more incidents are thrown against them. Goofy dialogue from AFDS anyone?

I, for one, am impressed with the soundtrack. It sounds more like a Hollywood grade score rather than a gmae score. Maybe it's just me but I think we have the makings of an instant classic here.

With such an engaging storyline, perhaps Namco should expand on the current universe and make sequels based on that. But that's just my opinion.

[David Hingtgen]

I was really hoping to have at least one mission involving Farbanti or North Point. What's an AC game without North Point?

Sequel:

Upgrade planes faster!

More pure air-to-air missions. There's no "Shattered Skies" mission in this, I want a pure giant dogfight at least twice in the game. With Phoenixes, for a first-strike advantage.

Also, a bigger "difference" of planes. In AC2, the 1st vs 2nd time through changed like 50% of the available planes. AC5, there's only like 2 that change for 1st vs 2nd run-though.

And bring back multiple weapons per plane.