Ace Combat 5

[Skull Leader]

Ok, Per David's problem with not being able to find the map, I downloaded the image and posted it here. Erusea is on either end of the map (you can see "North Point" in the far-west side and "Farbanti" on the far east side)

Edited October 4, 2004 by Skull Leader

[David Hingtgen]

Oh, that map. Thought you meant one "pieced together" by a fan showing AC2 overlaid onto it or something. Going to go through AC4 again tonight real quick to see if anything looks familiar from AC2. (though there's a few branching missions in AC2, so I didn't see EVERYTHING)

[hellohikaru]

@David

I though the F-4X was the F-4E(S) Peace Jack developed for Israeli ? A Photo recon bird it is with water injection to boost speed.

Is it true the F-20 will make an appearance in Ac5 ? That's going to be my favourite fighter together with Gripen.

F-5E->F-20->F-29

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Hey guys. I am REALLY sorry for posting all the potential spoilers! Just wanted to share in the excitement., I mean the prospect of seeing the XFA-27...or something similar really got me since I LOVE the design! While I do think blurry was applied well to the trailer as well I just wish the music in game is all namco...and I think it is. I believe blurry was just applied by the fan who hosted the first clip.

Yes the F-20 is confirmed. I forgot where but it is confirmed. Right now I am trying to figure out if the MIg-29A recieves upgrades(SMT hunchback/33/35) or if the MIg 1.44 makes an appearance. Heck the LFI or S-54 would be a GREAT addition!

THe A-6 interests me. Right now it can be said that almost every plane earned in this game through progression has an upgrade of some sorts. So I wonder if we get a A-6B ironhand intruder, or a A-6F.

THe F-4X gets me confused. To my understanding its the canarded prototype. Only one was made. it also had digital FBW. It would make sense. After all out of all the F-4 variants(besides the VG proposal) it is the mos drastic and different looking. Howver I wouldn't mind a USAF F-4G wild weasel!

After hearing more music I can say for certain someone from 2 and 4 is working on it, if not the same team.

and now that i think about it....since the Fb-22 is in teh game...how about the YF-23>YF-23 regioonal bomber!!

[David Hingtgen]

The F-4X never happened. The F-4E(S) is the successor, and is little more than an F-4E with the gun removed to make room for cameras. They actually exist, and are pretty easy to tell, even though the nose is painted to hide the different shape, so that it looks like any other Israeli F-4. AFAIK they have no performance mods, like cooling tanks etc. But the F-4 is inherently fast, even by modern standards. Will out-run any recon-Hornet or Tornado.

Shin--I think you're thinking of the F-4 CCV: http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/f4_30.html

Edited October 4, 2004 by David Hingtgen

[Skull Leader]

But the F-4 is inherently fast, even by modern standards.  Will out-run any recon-Hornet or Tornado.

LOL, isn't that just sick??? another case of a 30 year old aircraft out burning some of the newest kids on the block... (although, the Tornado isn't really NEW, per say)

... never really liked the Phantom, but it's got my respect

Also, I've never seen the AC2 map overlayed with the AC4 map, but I DID see somewhere a map where someone tried to fit in the AC4 map in the real world (they ended up placing it in the pacific, between the northern US and Asia)

Edited October 4, 2004 by Skull Leader

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

David, was the CCV ever designated the X as well? Because a recon phantom in AC5 wouldn't make any sense....I mean what other plane could be recon? Well then again....theres ECM pods and such....Oh well I still hold hope its actually the CCV! An awesome plane. Too bad I do not know much about it.

Amazing how the phantom can outrun the tornado. I knew the tornado and phantom were fast...the former known for low alt high speed penetration...but dang..just dang.

BTW lightning pilots are KNOWN for destroying tornado units in mock inter squyadron combat in britain.

Anyone find out if the F-8 is in the game?

[Hikuro]

I went over and visited my buddies at Gamestop near work (who are accepting apps too woooooooo) and they showed me some pictures they took of the joystick bundle when a sample came to them a while ago. It seems very good sized but they said they couldn't play the game since they had no demo.

I went ahead and pre-ordered it but they said it pales in comparison to Steel Battalion

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

the joystick or the game? How can the game pale in comparison its a totally different genre!

Guys I came up with possible tornado's in the game since it is known the IDS or GR1 is in it.

Tornado Gr1>ADV F.3>ECR

now being that the growler is in this game I feel it would be awesome if the ECR was too! and the tornado pic I saw had desert pink. Did the RAF use desert pink on their ADV's or did the Saudi's do too? I can't remember but I just know whenever I see that scheme I think gulf war era IDS or ADV.

[Hikuro]

What I meant was the joystick for AC5 pales in comparison to Steel Battalions Joystick set Not sure about the games comparing...I haven't played either! Would LOVE TOO but I haven't.

[mikeszekely]

But the F-4 is inherently fast, even by modern standards.  Will out-run any recon-Hornet or Tornado.

LOL, isn't that just sick??? another case of a 30 year old aircraft out burning some of the newest kids on the block... (although, the Tornado isn't really NEW, per say)

...and neither is the Hornet. In fact, if all was right and just in the world, the Hornet would be phased out as planned with the F-35B, but no larger "Super" Hornets would be replacing the F-14. Instead, the F-14 would be replaced with either the Super Tomcat, or a plane that kicks ass the way the F-14 does, like maybe a Navy variant F-23.

I just ran through Ace Combat 2 last night and Ace Combat 3 today. Aside from the lack of real-world planes (including the F-14) and the inclusion of some freaky-looking fictional birds, I think the thing that turns most people off about it is the fact that it doesn't really seem to fit with 2 or 4. In those ones, it's straight up military. You have military style briefings, fly real-world military planes, and take part in a campaign against a foreign military. Ace Combat 3 is far more sci-fi... more so, if you've played the Japanese one (the "rogue AI" piloting the Aurora used to be someone named Keith... and was also the the pilot of the F-15 in "Joint Maneuvers"). You get your briefings via a computer, you fly some fictional craft against other fictional craft, in fictional settings like Geofront and Megafloat, seemingly all by yourself. It's true that AC3's soundtrack was a little dull at times, but it fit it's unique atmosphere better than Ace Combat 2's rock soundtrack. Overall, though, I'd still say it's a damn fine game.

Anyway, I digress. I didn't pay enough attention during the briefings in Ace Combat 2, so I didn't catch much in the way of names. And Ace Combat 3 takes place around a lot of artificial places like Megafloat and Geofront. I did manage to pick up a few names, though: Waiapolo Mountains, Port Edwards, and Expo City. Now, if anyone can remember if any of those are in AC2 or AC4...?

[Coota0]

I've never played AC3, but from the sound of it it sounds a lot like a couple of Dale Brown's books (Day of the Chettah and Nerve Center)

[David Hingtgen]

I don't think any ADV Tornados got desert camo.

There is a special recon Tornado, the GR1A. The 13th Squadron (best markings of all Tornado squadrons IMHO) has them, maybe others. The guns are removed to make room for the cameras, etc. And just FYI there's also the GR1B, modified to carry Sea Eagle ASM's.

Still, I want GR4's now, to carry Storm Shadow missiles.

Edited October 5, 2004 by David Hingtgen

[Druna Skass]

Anyway, I digress. I didn't pay enough attention during the briefings in Ace Combat 2, so I didn't catch much in the way of names. And Ace Combat 3 takes place around a lot of artificial places like Megafloat and Geofront. I did manage to pick up a few names, though: Waiapolo Mountains, Port Edwards, and Expo City. Now, if anyone can remember if any of those are in AC2 or AC4...?

There was a battle over Port Edwards before advancing on the enemy capital St. Ark in AC2. And St. Ark is also mention in 4 as where the last of the ISAF forces were leaving the continent to regroup at North Point.

[hellohikaru]

There are also other Tornado variants like the ECR, Recce Tornado and German version of the GR4(upgrade).

Its notable that the GR4 are now in ADV style grey...emphasizing the switch to high/medium altitude missions.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

well. Mike in AC3, you find out that your character is actually just an AI. I HOPE this doesn't count as a spoiler this time since most of you played this game and concluded it sucks. What turned me off was the fact that there were no cockpits in the planes thuis signifying your just a computer program AI. Which pretty much sucks. Some of the missions were cool and the blurred replay mode was AWESOME. But fighting some crappy aurora and the WAY to predictable AI even in hard mode....it was ab big turn off. As well as not having the whole story. By all means my friend who has the jp version says the jp version is actually well done unlke the US one, which was gutted of story sadly.

What I like about tornado ECR is that it can STILL do A2G!! no gun but still an awesome plane!! And tornadoes look awesome anyways, I LOVE the ace sceme for it in AC4!!

[Druna Skass]

What turned me off was the fact that there were no cockpits in the planes thuis signifying your just a computer program AI.

Actualy I think most planes still had a pilot, they just sat in a VR cockpit.

Yeah the AI is way too easy in 3, I went through the whole game with just guns. I only used missiles on the last level.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

dude i had no ideea!! Holy crap!! Hmm..well that changes my view for the better...a LITTLE lol. But damn guns only? sheesh it has been a while since I played this then!!

Hey guys. What WERE the secret planes to unlock in AC3? I do like the GUI for the menus and such....but I do remember hearing the secret planes sucked. I think I ended with the SU-47.

and....did anyone get a good summary for the story in that game? and it;/s ending? I never did. Best I could do was unlock the anime opening.

DElphinusIII i liked.,

Nonetheless I still think AC4 was way better!! and 5 even more so. HEY since the arcade mode is so much LIKE Ace combat 2 in teh arcade(3 min+ more time with each consecutive kill) do you think this game will actually be in the arcade? It's been a few years since this happened! ANd hell tekken 5 lets you put a memory card from a PS2 into the arcade machine I believe...what if an arcade ace combat could do this too?

Ah well. I am sure we can all save money just buying it for PS2. Although it would be real swell to see one in the arcade.

[Druna Skass]

There's some talk here about a Macross Zero-esque sub carrier...

http://acecombat.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1747&st=30

As Skull Leader said, we both have accounts there...

Gai Murakumo = Druna Skass

[David Hingtgen]

I consider that a spoiler too...

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

we got 3 weeks to find out! I certainly hope this game takes long as hell to complete. AC4's main flaw was that it was short.

and something tells me wingman implementation and commands is reminscent of a online game. SO hopefully the next AC IS online!

(BTW guys I have been designing patches latlely...anyone want to see?)

[Druna Skass]

I consider that a spoiler too...

My bad...

Seemed more like specuation than a spoiler to me...

[David Hingtgen]

I don't know if it is a spoiler or not, since I'm not going to click on the link to read the discussion.

Basically--if it's not in the instruction book, it's a spoiler, IMHO. (Unless it's a featured picture at Namco's site or something) And "good guesses from over-analyzing snippets of trailer footage" counts too. Since you can get 90% of a movie's plot that way.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

heh hey david i skimmed through that thread and couldn't find anything anyways.

Ya know I really hope TWO PLAYER mode is better this time. LAst time it kind of sucked. It was basically like this. "if a missle is launched hold R1 and keep turning" So with that in mind battles would go on FOREVER. Until someone got tired of holding the Dstick and caved. OR someone used the QAAM. If the flight modeling is vastly superior and more difficult than ace com,bat 4, then 2 player versus mode shall be a reall nice treat!

[mikeszekely]

Hey guys.  What WERE the secret planes to unlock in AC3?  I do like the GUI for the menus and such....but I do remember hearing the secret planes sucked. I think I ended with the SU-47. 

and....did anyone get a good summary for the story in that game? and it;/s ending? I never did. Best I could do was unlock the anime opening.

******ACE COMBAT 3 SPOILERS***************

For the American version, there were some planes you unlocked reguardless, and some planes you unlocked based on how many points you had. You had no real way of knowing how many points you had, but basically it had to do with your rank... something like A was 3, B was 2, C was 1, and D was 0. For the Japanese version, you were only allowed certain planes for certain missions, based mostly on which path you took through the story.

Here's the complete American list. Bear in mind that the names are as they are in the game... some purely fiction, others fiction upgrades to real planes. Oh, and yes, the Japanese version implies that the planes, all of them, have real cockpits. I assume that in the future, they decide it's safer for the pilot to have an armored cockit with some kind of VF camera... ala the Varauta fighters in Macross 7.

EF-2000E Typhoon II

MiG-33 Fulcrum SS

F/A-18U HornetADV

F-16XFU Gyrfalcon

R-101 Delphinus #1

R-201 Asterozoa

F-16XA Sakerfalcon

F-15S/MT Eagle+

F-22C Raptor II

F/A-32C Erne

Su-37 Super Flanker

R-102 Delphinus #2

R-211 Orcinus

Su-43 Berkut

R-103 Delphinus #3

XFA-36A Game

RF-12A2 Blackbird

R-352 Sepia

XR-900 Geopelia

UI-4054 Aurora

X-49 Night Raven

In addition to those, the Japanese version had:

A/F-117X Nav Hawk

R-311 Remora

The story for the American version is summed up basically (in 35 missions, with one bonus mission) as you're a pilot for UPEO, a peace-keeping force that works for the Neo United Nations (NUN). Two corporations, Neucom and General Resources, are duking it out. You eventually discover that it's because of a group called Ouroborus, who were trying to get the two corporations to wear each other down so that they could step into the power vacuum, and that they're being controlled by a rouge AI. It's implied that you are also actually an AI.

The Japanese version is much, much more complicated. UPEO, Neucom, General Resources, and Ouroborous are all fighting over the prototype X-49 Night Raven, and it's pilot, a girl named Rena who'd been trained since a young age to be a kind of super-pilot. You begin the game working for for UPEO, but throughout the game there are different points where you can shift your alliance. What you decide determines what missions you play (56 total if you play through every scenario), what planes you can fly, and what ending you get. As you play through the game, you'll eventually meet Rena, as well as Dision (you first encounter him as the pilot of the F-15 in "Joint Maneuvers," but he'll eventually get the Aurora, as well as a few other characters. The real gist of it all, though, is that Dision and his lover were killed awhile back, and you never actually meet the real Dision, but rather a computer program that simulates Dision's personality. This was possible because he participated in a program called Sublimination Project, which apparently was some sort of project to download people's conciousness into the Electrosphere (which was kind of like a world-spanning digital world that replaces the internet in the future). You yourself are apparently a program created by a guy named Simon (who is responsible for the Sublimination Program). Depending on the path you pick through the game, you may destroy Dision and/or the Night Raven, but Rena might survive. You may also take another route and meet other characters, but Dision and Rena seem to be the most important.

Say what you will about Ace Combat 3. Yes, it's a very different creature than Ace Combat 2 or Ace Combat 4. Yes, it would have been nice to have more cool real-world fighters, and yes, a lot of the purely fictional fighters are freakish and less than cool. Yes, the American version was as much a hack of the original as Robotech is of Macross. But it was still a very ambitious game in Japan with an incredible sci-fi story and some really unique missions, and either version sport some of the best visuals you'll see on the PSone (Sorry, David, but I think the fighters in AC3 are much more detailed and much less polygonal than AC2, with better lighting effects including glare from the sun and around the afterburners). Maybe the AI was a little off at times. Maybe it doesn't quite fit in with the rest of the Ace Combat family. With that in mind, I stand by my original opinion... AC3, by no means, sucks... it is, in fact, quite good. The only game in the series that truly sucks is Air Combat, which, like the original Ridge Racer, may have been pretty cool at the time when games were just starting to venture into 3D. But the ugly graphics, nasty controls, limited missions, and even more limited plane selection make for an awful game in retrospect.

Edited October 5, 2004 by mikeszekely

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

any pics of the night raven and other secret planes?*(besides game). Geez. that isn't that many planes.

[Druna Skass]

any pics of the night raven and other secret planes?*(besides game).  Geez.  that isn't that many planes.

Well it's a pretty basic plane, just picture two boomerrangs, with one on top of the other. Sort of like a futureristic looking bi-plane with no fuselauge aside from what's between the wings.

Oh and in the U.S. version, you're a human pilot. There's a line in the last level from base before you engage the Aurora, something like "show this AI it's no match for a human" or something like that.

Edited October 5, 2004 by Druna Skass

[David Hingtgen]

Think I'll play AFDS tonight. (I've been reading about control schemes lately, mainly V-tail and tailless deltas). Still can't find a good, basic explanation of how delta-wing planes control pitch without totally messing up their trim/lift. An elevon is more than just a fancy elevator on a delta, it's the wing's trailing edge---if you move it up and down for pitch, it should have a severe, opposite effect on lift, unless it's instantly countered by the change in lift caused by the change in alpha... And then I want a 'reflex' delta airfoil explained...

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

I played AFDS last night as well, and couldnt help but realize...man this flight modeling is AWESOME compared to AC4!!! sure some control surface animations are off...but overall I know a 2 player vs mode in AFDS would so OWN ac4!!!!

AC5 will definitely be the best more so if it's flight modeling can take on AFDS'. David did you get the F-108 RApier in AFDS? holy crap its FAST!! Don't even try turn fighting in that thing!(one of the GREAT things I love about AFDS.....what you cant do well in real life...you cant do here!!! like in AC4 A-10 a super sonic fighter? )

IF AC5 had the cockpit format of lethal skies II it would be great as well!!(so far that game has the best cockpit views)

[Coota0]

From the look of this picture it looks like you can have multiple types of weapons in each mission.

Picture

[Seven]

From the look of this picture it looks like you can have multiple types of weapons in each mission.

Picture

That carrier is lookin awfully like a ghost town or the Mary Celeste if you know what I mean.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

From what I remember it's weapon/special weapon/sensor. Although that DOES look like a rocket pod!(and hoppefully so!). BTW that must be the A-6F!! it's got sidewinders on the outboard pylons, which to my knowledge A-6A-E Never had!

[David Hingtgen]

A third weapon would be great. If I was a programmer, I'd give every plane a permanent "special" weapon, then the player gets to choose the third weapon. Like, F-15E's would have Sidewinders like every plane in the game gets, then because it's an F-15 it gets AMRAAMs as the 'special' weapon, then the player gets to buy/choose the bombs. (Basically, most fighters would get AMRAAMs and most bombers get Mavericks or Paveways, then the player can pick a specialzed weapon like the Harpoon, HARM, or JSOW) Mainly, because no plane should be limited to Sidewinders and 1 other special---AMRAAMs shouldn't count as a 'special' weapon, etc. I mean, your every day F-16C B.50/52 load is 2x AIM-9, 2xAIM-120, 2xAGM-88. Similar loads for Hornets.

Other things: I don't recall getting the F-108 in AFDS, though I thought I got all the "regular" planes except Jamie's.

Super-plane in AC2 is the ADF-01.

Mission 8 in AC4 is over Comona Island, I think that's the site of a mission in AC2 as well.

Going to play more AC4 and AC5demo tonight. I really need to get used to the slightly different controls in AC5. I keep getting weapon/view changes mixed up.

PS---if you go to the music player in AC4 (which I do a lot), there's 2 tracks after the final mission tracks--"North Point" and Mega-something I think. Unused mission tracks? They both rock IMHO.

I hope that AC5 actually starts you off with really old planes. Gimme an F3H and a F-100... I do like to EARN planes GRADUALLY, not get the F-16 2 missions in, then the F-22 half-way through, then use it until the end of the game...

Edited October 6, 2004 by David Hingtgen

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

WHOA is ADF-01 even accessible? and what does it look like?

I too agree with your loadouts. IF loadouts and flight modeling were like a simplified Jane's sim like USAF or IAF only more simple for console, this sim would RULE!! (loadouts in those games are limited to what the plane in reality can carry).

Yea AC5 demo is confusing man. Sometimes almost too easy with special weapon. the view controls are confusing I keep pressing D pad on accident instead of R3.

BTW if we get more than one A-6....this game will rock more!!

A-6E>A-6F>EA-6B?

[David Hingtgen]

ADF-01 can't be used. Red top half, black bottom half. Very futuristic/fantasy. Definitely along the lines of Delphinus etc in AC3. Forward-swept wings. Rearward-firing missile. Take out every ace in hard mode, and it'll show up in the model viewer. (As well as the final mission, assuming you took out all other aces before getting to it--otherwise he'll fly an F-15S I think)

PS---having recently read the latest stuff about the Su-30MKI, I'm fully convinced it is by far the most bad-ass plane flying at the moment. Blows away the Su-37. http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/info-su30mki.html

Edited October 6, 2004 by David Hingtgen